Teacup Australian shepherd--12lbs!!!

[IRescue452]

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/miniatureaustralianshepherd.htm

I knew they were making minis, but teacups! How on earth did they breed them down so quickly? Their heads have started looking a little deformed in the muzzle area. I must admit they are cute...

[Danegirl2208]

Teacup Aussies?? :rolleyes:

What nexts..teacup Danes?..Guess I better not say that allowed though, may give another idiot BYB a new idea :rolleyes:

[IRescue452]

Oh they already have toy great danes

http://www.berlinbear.com/dogsgreatdane.html

[vinjashira]

Oh they already have toy great danes

http://www.berlinbear.com/dogsgreatdane.htmllol that is cute http://www.petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/biggrin.gif

[Twisterdog]

[How on earth did they breed them down so quickly? Their heads have started looking a little deformed in the muzzle area.

Looking at the pictures, I'd say breeding with chihuahuas and/or pomeranians.

Another designer dog. Another expensive mixed breed. Another reason for the uninformed general public to pay a huge price for a mutt, while tens of thousands of dogs die in shelters.

NOT impressed. :mad: :(

[pitc9]

Looking at the pictures, I'd say breeding with chihuahuas and/or pomeranians.

Another designer dog. Another expensive mixed breed. Another reason for the uninformed general public to pay a huge price for a mutt, while tens of thousands of dogs die in shelters.

NOT impressed. :mad: :(


DITTO!!!!! :mad: :( :mad: :(

[lute]

Oh they already have toy great danes

http://www.berlinbear.com/dogsgreatdane.html
Oh my gosh! You had me going there for a minute! I thought I was gonna pass out! haha
As for tea-cut Aussies...I think this is stupid! Not just for Aussies, but any breed. I mean if you like the breed, but they aren't exactly for you, THEN DON'T GET ONE!!! Don't ruin the breed to accomidate your living arrangements or because they are cuter smaller. If you have to make changes to the breed, then the breed wasn't for you in the first place. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Danegirl2208]

Oh they already have toy great danes

http://www.berlinbear.com/dogsgreatdane.html

lol :D

[Lori Jordan]

This makes my blood boil,I dont know if this bother me because i own one maybe?
People are just getting more stupid as time goes on.....

The other day i seen an add for Roodles...Guess what that breed is?
Rotti and a poodle mix.....People need to give there head a shake they do not even realize what they are doing to these breeds!

[BC_MoM]

I don't even know what to say to this. :mad:

[GSDluver4lyfe]

Wow... :(

[TacosNKiwis]

I don't know what to say either...all I can do is shake my head and sigh.... :(

[bechtelv]

I am new to this group, but this thread caught my eye. I volunteer for Aussie rescue and normally work with "standard" aussies (plus the occasional Border Collie).

Last week I was asked to take in a toy aussie. I had never heard such a thing, but the dog needed help and I went to pick him up.

Gabriel is tiny. He is almost 6 months old, and only 6 pounds. Looks like an 8 week old aussie pup, but he isn't expected to get much bigger.

I got his pedigree and sure enough, as far back as I looked it was all aussies. Could breeders have been lying, of course, but it doesn't seem that way.

This guy looks just like my "standard" aussie, only much smaller. He is just as "drivey" and smart (more so than my lazy black tri). Though he may be a small dog, he needs a dedicated and dog savvy owner. Unlike most toy dogs....he isn't a lap puppy. He wants to work.

Will I let him herd..NO WAY! He is just too small. But agility and flyball are in his future. But if I let him into the field of sheep, he would try.

I am concerned that people are going for this breed thinking it will be easier than a "standard" aussie. Size isn't everything. Unless breeders can magically get the work drive out with making the dogs smaller, this breed is doomed to wind up in shelters everwhere.

[scrain2329]

I actually go to a private barn where my trainer (aka second mother haha) has and adores her Aussies. She said it perfectly, My shadow, my dear sherman (her 1st Aussie, who no joke is her shadow).... I swear is more faithful than my husband ha ha!
Anyways... accidental litter, two toys and out comes my little baby. We just went to the vet and she is a whooping 4 pounds 10 ounces. Healthy as can be. Both mom and dad are healthy and checked for everything possible and its Australians all the way back the line. She is the size of my Labs head. Wanna take a guess who runs house??? :p
One of her siblings is already bigger than mom, his grandma is a mini.
Her other brother is slightly bigger then her but all the others will be large toys.
She was first out but still the smallest.
My point I guess is, I am new on here. Hopefully I am not offending anybody, but just wanted to add my two cents in by saying I love my teacup. There is no mix blood in her lines, and no i will never carry her in a purse :D
Thank You!
:)

[dab_20]

People are just stupid. They don't care, all they want is a dog to suit them perfectly. I looked it up online, and I found a five pound teacup aussie that they're going to breed with a teacup poodle to make an 'aussiedoodle'. :rolleyes:

[IRescue452]

Two new users posting their one and only post right here in this thread. My first impression is that these are byb'ers who specialize in this "breed" and want to defend it for potential buyers who see the thread. I hope I'm wrong.

[bckrazy]

I fully understand the appeal of a smaller Aussie, as in, 16"-18"... the trend in show lines is leaning towards REALLY big (60+ lbs), and I personally prefer smaller, working types.

But, honestly, 10"?! 6 lbs at 6 months?! I am not denying that your "toy" Aussies make great pets, but what is the point of breeding them down that small? There is no possible way a toy Aussie could do the work the breed is intended to do, therefore it is completely irresponsible for anyone to be breeding these dogs intentionally.

I have never seen a toy Aussie who resembled an Aussie, besides the coloring. Every single one has had a domed head, bulging eyes, unproportional body, etc. Just... not pretty. Get a Papillon.

[Jessika]

...................................



no comment.

[dab_20]

My point I guess is, I am new on here. Hopefully I am not offending anybody, but just wanted to add my two cents in by saying I love my teacup. There is no mix blood in her lines, and no i will never carry her in a purse :D
Thank You!
:)

We have nothing against the dogs themselves. Of course, they deserved to be loved and cared for like any other dog. What we do not agree with is that these breeders are breeding their dogs down to make them 'cuter' and many times do not care whether these dogs are healthy or not. Australian Shepherds were bred for herding, and many times that is what they love to do. Making them smaller only makes it impossible for them to do the one thing they were bred to do. It's just for money and nothing else.

[bckrazy]

I just met a "Toy Aussie" at the dog park, today... it looked almost exactly like this, except it was a Red Tri.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/ToyAussieShepherdPB290314.JPG

Uhg. It was petrified of everything, and it just didn't look, move, or act anything like an Aussie. IMO, there is no way that dog was 100% Aussie, no way. If it was, it should still be given a different name. I have nothing against the dog, but it was NOT an Aussie, by any stretch of the imagination.

There is a very similar "Toy Aussie" who frequents the dog park, a black tri, who has the same temperament. It's really sad.

[Jessika]

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images14/ToyAussieShepherdPB290314.JPG

Based on this photo, and this photo alone, that looks as though there is some pom and/or chi, because there is NO WAY that is 100% Aussie. Just no way.

[IRescue452]

That dog is absolutely adorable, but it looks like a tri colored papillon mix.

[bckrazy]

Based on this photo, and this photo alone, that looks as though there is some pom and/or chi, because there is NO WAY that is 100% Aussie. Just no way.

Seriously, Jessika!

That's exactly what I said... "Are you sure she's full Australian Shepherd?"... "Oh, yes, we saw the pedigree!"

The dog was cute, but just, NOT an Aussie. I have known Aussies of all shapes, sizes, colors, and personalities - but there is no way. If she IS, then something went really wrong some where along the line, and Aussies of that quality should have never ever been bred... several generations before her.

I mean, these dogs are DWARFED by Fozzie. And he isn't tall, by any means. About 12".

[k9krazee]

Uhg. It was petrified of everything, and it just didn't look, move, or act anything like an Aussie. IMO, there is no way that dog was 100% Aussie, no way. If it was, it should still be given a different name. I have nothing against the dog, but it was NOT an Aussie, by any stretch of the imagination.



Every "toy Aussie" that I've met has had that same personality. NOTHING like a real Aussie should be.

[lute]

I agree with everyone else. These TOY Aussies look nothing like real Aussies. Every dog deserves to be in a loving home, but these dogs shouldn't have even been bred. I show Australian Shepherds...the REAL Aussies and these dogs look nothing like them. If one of these were takin into the show ring the judge would more than likely disqualify it and laugh in your face.

[Taz_Zoee]

There is a couple that have three Aussies who frequent the dog park we go to. They have one of each size. A large one, a medium one and a small one. I'm guessing that maybe the smallest one is a teacup?? I'll try to remember to post pictures of these guys when I get home.
Tyson, the smallest one, is a riot! He gets super excited and just wants you to throw a ball ALL day long. He also likes to jump in the 5 gallon water bucket for a cooling off and rest from running himself ragged after the ball. That should give you an idea of his size.

Will come back to post pictures.

[catnapper]

Funny I was reading this thread this afternoon..... and met one tonight. I swear it was simply a large long haired chi.

What knocked me over was what she said "oh I plan on breeding her this summer" The manager and I jumped on that one and asked her why. Her answer: because the breeder asked her to and that the breeder has 20 of them throughout the country. IDIOT!

[scrain2329]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/scrain2329/Dadtrip08328.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/scrain2329/Dadtrip08323.jpg
She doesn't meet AKC requirements, or look like just like the typical Aussie.
She is boss of my 90 pound lab, and my horse is still scared of her when she gets to barking on his heels during my ride. She just sits in the middle of the arena and watches. makes sure everything is okay if he acts up she is up and on him getting him to move forward. Yes i realize this isnt the safest thing, 6 pound dog, 1200 pound horse... you cant stop instincts! she chewed the tie i had her on just so she wouldnt have to be tied up... just in case mom needed help!
She has more aussie traits than her grandma haha.

I agree, it is sad that the breeders are breeding them just for the size...
My little one she was just that weird little runt which happens, i wish that this cross designer breeding would stop... It isnt right, or fair because people dont realize what they are getting into, and no way am i defending potential buyers or promoting the breed, just... chatting I guess. Going to the shelter was what I really wanted. With all my heart, but after the lose of my short hair, she was there looking at me, and I was told 'all yours'.

R.I.P. Maddie-moo, we miss you
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh36/scrain2329/Dadtrip08002.jpg

[Karen]

I am glad your little one, runt of the litter and all, has a home where she is treasured and adored. I am glad you are not planning to breed her just because she's the runt, and you could get a smaller dog of of her. Every dog should have a good, loving home. I disrespect people who make "designer breeds" just for the sake of money, and without any acknowledgment of the characteristics and problems of the breed, or the breed mix.

Treasure your baby, give her a kiss for all of us, okay?

[wigglebutts]

Well this is my first post ... I just have to put my 2 cents in .. I have standard ,mini,toy,& teacup aussies all from aussie stock not a midex breed ...
I would post pictures of all of them but can't see anywhy to do so.
yes I am a breeder and don't cross my aussies with anything but another aussie. My little teacup is not petrified she herds goats along with the big dogs . She doesn't know she is only 8" tall ...
A dog that is petrified is not socialized right .. it really has nothing to do with the bred its the breeder or owner ...
Ok off my soapbox ..
Y'all have a good night

[Albino]

I personally ADORE the toy aussies. A GOOD one looks just like an australian shepherd, just smaller. Heavier bones are favorable, toyish look is actually a severe fault and is punished heavily in shows. Bulging eyes, tiny bones, these things aren't favorable. They are also supposed to behave just like an aussie, have a strong herding instinct, pretty high energy, just like a normal aussie. There are some BEAUTIFUL toy aussies out there, and I don't think they're a corruption of the aussie breed, I think they're wonderful. A properly bred one is all aussie in a 12" package. They're obtained through selective breeding of smaller dogs, not by crossing them with anything. And a good breeder will ALWAYS try to make their dogs look as aussie as possible, and not sacrifice conformation and personality for size. When breeders start trying to breed them smaller than 10 inches, you do start seeing more toyish features and they look more like papillions, but that is considered faulted, since they are supposed to be bred to look like aussies as much as possible. Hate me as much as you want, I personally adore them.

Also, let me just say about the breeders, from what I've seen, they love their dogs as much as anyone else. Its not like every breeder is a puppy mill just out for money. There are some really wanting to breed quality dogs who will do well in the show ring, agility, herding, and just being a family pet. They make sure the dogs go to quality homes, not just somewhere that they'll be abandoned. They care about their dogs. Not every breeder is just making some novelty for a quick buck. I'm not even a breeder, and never will be, but even I'm a little offended by how many people think that just because someone breeds a dog that they aren't concerned about the health of the puppies. Yeah, there's some out there who aren't and who are just greedy, but there's still such thing as good breeders.

Just out of curiosity, were you guys this outraged when they started shrinking the poodles to toy sized?

Seriously, you guys are acting like these dogs are some kind of monstrosity or something. For a community that is supposed to love dogs, I'm kinda surprised to read this thread.

[Karen]

Seriously, you guys are acting like these dogs are some kind of monstrosity or something. For a community that is supposed to love dogs, I'm kinda surprised to read this thread.

It is not like anyone thinks these dogs are the monsters. We - along with you, I am sure - think people who are irresponsible breeders are the monsters, not considering anything but their own pockets. Breeding a small dog to another closely related small dog just because of size, and ignoring other congenital issues the dogs may have ... Not checking for hip, eye, and other problems ... it is not a dog's fault how he or she is born, but in some cases problems can be avoided if folks take care.

All breeders are not irresponsible. There are great, responsible breeders out there. They are who I respect.

[shepgirl]

I'm not saying these dogs are monstrosities but their health problems just might be in the long run. I think only people interested in the almighty $$$ would breed something like this...and we all know there was no health checks done either.
Just because someone owns a dog doesn't mean it should be bred and just because someone thinks their dog is special doesn't mean it should be bred...that's the BYB way of looking at things.
I feel sorry for these poor pups.

[Albino]

I'm not saying these dogs are monstrosities but their health problems just might be in the long run. I think only people interested in the almighty $$$ would breed something like this...and we all know there was no health checks done either.
Just because someone owns a dog doesn't mean it should be bred and just because someone thinks their dog is special doesn't mean it should be bred...that's the BYB way of looking at things.
I feel sorry for these poor pups.

I've been looking into the toy aussies for a while now. The breeders I've seen first of are show breeders(yes, there are shows for these dogs) and therefore are breeding for the proper temperments and build. I haven't seen a single one that doesn't do hip and eye checks on both the parents and the puppies when they are old enough. I have read contracts, and the ones I have seen are very reasonable. They require vet checks, and proof that you've taken the dog in. They require pictures and documentation if you show them. VERY few even allow the dogs they sell to go unspayed. The ones who do, most of them only allow breeding quality dogs to go to showing families who will breed with care. That way, no one will breed a dog that is not TOP quality, just because its their special little pet and they want more puppies.

Just because a dog is small and not the conventional standard doesn't mean the breeder is irresponsible. I think that until you guys pass your judgement on these breeders, you should take a look around and see how many of them truly do care about their dogs and the puppies. Just because the dog is small doesn't mean that anyone who breeds them is just a puppy mill.

Just like with ANY breed of dog, you will have those bad breeders, the one who won't check their dogs for certain health issues before breeding, or the ones who just breed for size and ruin the integrity of the breed. Just like any other breed of dog, there are those good breeders out there looking to better the quality of their dogs. When looking for a Cavelier King Charles for my brother, it was heartbreaking to see that even that breed has fallen victim to poor breeding. But for every bad or mediocre one, there was plenty of good breeders out there too. But just like with any breed, you have the good breeders and the bad. Its not the dog's fault, its not the breed's fault, and its not the size of the dog that is at fault.

Its not bad that people are breeding these dogs. They are GREAT little dogs when bred right. What's bad is when STUPID people breed these dogs. Toy aussies, when bred right, are wonderful dogs.

There's nothing wrong with people breeding toy aussies, its just like people breeding toy poodles or any other type of dog. Its no different from any other breed of dog in the way its bred. Like I said, just because they're small and cute doesn't mean they're just some puppy mill novelty. There's still good breeders of them.

A bit off topic, but what does "BYB" mean?

[Karen]

A bit off topic, but what does "BYB" mean?

BYB is shorthand for back yard breeder - not the top-notch breeders you are referring to, BYB usually refers to people who do no research, just let their un-neutered dogs breed with some other dog, to get puppies. They are a few steps up from puppy mills, but still don't do genetic testing, consider bloodlines, check pedigrees, etc. They just breed for fun or profit.

[lute]

I agree that there are responsible breeders out there, but why make up a new breed? There are PLENTY of other breeds to put all this time, money and energy into that are accepted by registries such as AKC or UKC. This just does not make sense to me.

[Albino]

BYB is shorthand for back yard breeder - not the top-notch breeders you are referring to, BYB usually refers to people who do no research, just let their un-neutered dogs breed with some other dog, to get puppies. They are a few steps up from puppy mills, but still don't do genetic testing, consider bloodlines, check pedigrees, etc. They just breed for fun or profit.

Ah, I see. Then yes, I can see you guys' points now. Those people bother me a bit, since they, like you said, don't pay attention to things that make a pure bred dog worth buying, such as bloodlines and pedigrees. And I can see why toy aussies from these people would be a low quality that would be a disgrace to aussies, in a way. However, from breeders that pay attention to the important details to breed quality, but small, dogs, I have no problem with them. When I'm looking for dogs, I only look for people who have show quality dogs, not someone with their pet, which is how it should be for any breed.

But there are 'backyard breeders' for any breed(probably moreso for more common breeds), not just the mini aussies. The breed itself shouldn't be hated because of the lousy breeders, cause then, no purebred dog would be any good.


I agree that there are responsible breeders out there, but why make up a new breed? There are PLENTY of other breeds to put all this time, money and energy into that are accepted by registries such as AKC or UKC. This just does not make sense to me.

Toy and mini aussies have been around since the 60's. They're not just some brand new fad. Why is any breed or size variation of dog made? What could POSSIBLY be the reason for toy poodles, or miniature pinschers? I mean, standard poodles were bred to hunt! Could a toy poodle or even a minature ever hunt? Toy aussies are a high energy, intellegent dogs with a strong work ethic, but in a small package. They're easily trained, great for agility, eager to work. I think that if they are small but with the same nature and look as a standard aussie, only smaller, then I say, why not? Its just like any other breed they've made a size variation of.

There are tons of dogs out there you might question the reasoning behind making them in the first place. Take the Cavelier King Charles for example. Adorable dogs, smart, sweet, great if you just want a small house companion lap dog. You know what they were bred for? They were the royalty's flea magnents. They sat under their skirts so the fleas would bite the dog and not the royalty. They were bred as a luxury item to keep as a show of wealth. But you know what, they're AMAZING dogs. Their purpose is a bit pointless, just as you seem to think the toy aussie's is. But that doesn't make them any less wonderful of a dog.

Also, you mention the AKC. Standard Australian Shepherds weren't even recognized by them until they 90's. Just because a dog isn't accepted by the AKC doesn't mean its not worth breeding.

[Giselle]

You have to assess the context of the situation. What is the purpose for creating new breeds in TODAY'S society? In a society of over 400+ breeds (not just AKC, but ARBA, FCI, UKC, etc.) and HORRENDOUS overpopulation (almost an epidemic, if you will) and vastly diminishing resources, what is the purpose of creating a dog that fills an already filled niche in the dog fancy?

Take undersized Aussies: The impetus for creating an undersized Aussie lies in attempting to create a small, coated herding dog with drive, intelligence, biddability, relatively unitarian conformation (fairly square), and, well, herding ability. Sound familar? I've just described a Sheltie. So what purpose does a small Aussie fulfill that Shetland Sheepdogs or regular Aussies do not?

This is the same argument that we use to debunk the "wonders" of designer dogs. What purpose does a Labradoodle serve? The Seeing Eye program fell through; they found out genetics isn't quite that simple or clear cut. So, what we have are shedding, albeit curly coated, Retrievers. Oh wait, I've just described Curly-Coated Retrievers. But if you're going more generic and are simply looking for a curly coated sporting dog, well, there's the Portuguese Water Dog. And the Irish Water Spaniel. And the Standard Poodle, if you still believe they are sporting dogs...etc. etc.

The point is: If the niche has already been fulfilled, then there is no legitimate reason to create a new breed. About the only niche that is void that I can think of, off the top of my head, is a small-medium, coated sighthound. No such dog existed prior to the Silken Windhound. Ergo, the Silken Windhound has gained enormous support from the entire sighthound community and even the AKC (at least, that's what their latest updates tell me). Why? Because the breed has *legitimacy* - prior to the Silken, no such coated sighthound of small-medium stature existed. It was either 1) get a Whippet and deal with abnormally thin skin exceptionally prone to rips and tears or 2) get a gigantic Borzoi. Silkens fill that niche. That's why Silkens have garnered so much public approval. But this is also why we generally do not agree with new and/or designer breeds.

In today's society, there needs to be a valid reason for a breed to be created. It must be legitimate. It must be filling a void, a niche, in a manner that no other breed can. Every dog (barring mental or physical afflictions) can do agility or obedience. Every dog can be a great companion. Any dog can pass hip/eye/elbow tests with flying colors. My dobe, Ivy, passed her PennHip with .28. That means that her hips are better than 100% of all other dogs tested. But that doesn't give her a ticket to be bred. Indeed, not every dog can herd. Not every dog can run and chase like a sighthound. Not every dog can track. So, if such a dog does not exist and there is a sincere need for it, you can create it - but ONLY if that niche has not already been filled. So, that's the ethics of it! :)

ETA: I do want to add that I am deliberately staying out of the "emotional" aspect of breeding. There are some people who do believe that they're doing right by their dogs by breeding them. Some may health test. Some may show. Some may work their dogs. But I'm deliberately disregarding how much they care or love their dogs. I just want to talk about the ethics of this matter in the big picture of dog fancydom. Also, don't assume I'm an AKC/conformation/purebred fanatic, either ;) I have qualms about dog shows that you don't even want to hear about LOL!

[lute]

Took the words right from my mouth Giselle! There needn't be any other breeds if there is on to perform their job properly already. If you want a smaller herding dog there are Shelties, Corgi's. Vallhunds, etc.

Yes, I am aware that Aussies have only been accepted since 1991. They were a breed long before being accepted by AKC. If you want to point at me saying why not to breed dogs accepted by AKC, UKC, etc. Aside from Aussies, I also show Swedish Vallhunds. A Swedish herding dog. Only accepted fully by AKC in 2007. These dogs were bred long before either of the Corgis. Swedish Vallhunds are most likely part of the foundation of both Corgis. These dogs only reached the U.S in the early 80's. You see I agree with the breeding of dogs not accepted by registries.I just don't agree with making up new breeds.

[shepgirl]

Very well put Giselle and you took the words out of my mouth also. Big deal if they do the testing (which I don't buy anyway) but I think we have enough breeds for everyone and creating new ones is irresponsible in itself. I'm a Shepherd lover and some breeders are trying to destroy that breed with designer dogs too..... doesn't make it right.

[MonicanHonda]

The way I see it... any purebred dog was once a mutt. They bred dogs to suit their owners back in the day and we'll continue to do that no matter who likes it. Why sit here and whine about it? We aren't going to stop it. Change is inevitable and one day labradoodles and puggles will be registered in the AKC. Heh....

[Albino]

Giselle, you make some very good points. I guess its just a matter of opinion about whether or not dogs should be bred for a working purpose to fill a niche, or if they can be bred regardless of them not fitting into a niche. Though your point about over population seems a bit irrelevant, because that would mean ANY dog, AKC registered or not, is irresponsible to breed. And I know, there are some people who believe that too. Once again, a matter of opinion, I suppose.


Very well put Giselle and you took the words out of my mouth also. Big deal if they do the testing (which I don't buy anyway) but I think we have enough breeds for everyone and creating new ones is irresponsible in itself. I'm a Shepherd lover and some breeders are trying to destroy that breed with designer dogs too..... doesn't make it right.

What makes you think that just because you don't like the dog that obviously the breeder doesn't care about the health? Its one thing to be skeptical and want to look more into seeing if they're being honest, its another to flat out say that they more than likely are lying. A breeder of any other breed has just as much of a chance of lying about testing or not lying. Just because they breed a breed you dislike does not mean they don't care about their dogs. Also, what is a designer dog? A dog without a purpose for being bred? Because most dogs now days aren't used for their original purposes. If someone has a labrador who does shows, breeding, and a family pet, but no hunting and retrieving, does that make it a 'designer dog' just because its not living up to the breed's purpose? No. A dog is a dog. There's such thing as a deigner hand bag or designer clothes, but there is no such thing as a designer dog, dogs are not objects. Regardless of if you like the breed or not, they are not objects.

[lute]

Change is inevitable and one day labradoodles and puggles will be registered in the AKC. Heh....

You honestly think that? If I'm not mistaken all AKC registered dogs have had a job or a purpose. Not just to be cute. Yes, all AKC registered dogs were mixed breeds at one point, but there was a reason they were bred. The breeders were selectively crossing dogs to perform a job or have a purpose.

[Giselle]

Lute, I wouldn't say that all AKC dogs were created for actual purposes, as is demonstrated by virtually the entire Toy group. ;)

Albino, you're right; absolutely not all (or even most) dogs today are bred for any purpose other than companionship. However, we are not talking about the propagation of a breed already in existence. We're talking solely about the creation and establishment of a new breed in itself. And I wouldn't say the issue of overpopulation is irrelevant at all. Rather, because we have horrendous overpopulation, it is imperative that a "new" breed be legitimate. Example: Labradoodles. Labradoodles, as was demonstrated by the failure of the Seeing Eye program, have no other actual purpose for creation than companionship. In an underpopulated world, that's fine and dandy. But because our society is so darn overpopulated (really, bursting at the seams!), it's just downright unethical to create a new breed, the Labradoodle, when there are so many companion-quality dogs already in existence and languishing in shelters and when there is a breed that already fulfills that niche of a curly-coated retriever. Again, I'm not talking about the continuation of breeds already in existence because that will just take you on a never-ending tangent. I'm only talking about the validity of creating a new breed in our day and age, which is the sole issue of all these "designer dog" and "new breed" discussions.

Like I said, I have nothing against a new breed if it actually does fulfill an unfilled niche, like the Silken. In fact, that's the general sentiment of most people. However, when the dog is merely adding to an already fulfilled niche, well, there's going to be pretty severe backlash.

[MonicanHonda]

Not all dogs had a purpose, for example, Italian Greyhounds were bred purely for companionship as a lapdog that resembled their greyhound cousins.

[Twisterdog]

Not all dogs had a purpose, for example, Italian Greyhounds were bred purely for companionship as a lapdog that resembled their greyhound cousins.

And that IS their purpose. They fill it well. We don't need something called a "toy greyhound" or a "miniature whippet" to fill that niche, we already have a recognised breed, the IG. We don't need BYB's and puppy mills breeding greyhounds and whippets with chihuahuas or min pins to make a "toy" version. If you want a little greyhound, buy an IG.

And, I'm sorry, if you want a twelve pound fuzzy lap dog, get a pom. Don't buy a Aussie/pom mixed breed from a BYB who called it a "toy Australian shepherd.". Don't put money into the pockets of monsters.

[shepgirl]

ALBINO____What makes you think that just because you don't like the dog that obviously the breeder doesn't care about the health? Its one thing to be skeptical and want to look more into seeing if they're being honest, its another to flat out say that they more than likely are lying. A breeder of any other breed has just as much of a chance of lying about testing or not lying. Just because they breed a breed you dislike does not mean they don't care about their dogs. Also, what is a designer dog? A dog without a purpose for being bred? Because most dogs now days aren't used for their original purposes. If someone has a labrador who does shows, breeding, and a family pet, but no hunting and retrieving, does that make it a 'designer dog' just because its not living up to the breed's purpose? No. A dog is a dog. There's such thing as a deigner hand bag or designer clothes, but there is no such thing as a designer dog, dogs are not objects. Regardless of if you like the breed or not, they are not objects.



What makes me think that? The fact that I've just witnessed someone lie through their teeth for the sake of breeding what they said was a super dog...it turned into a disaster is why. Oh yes, they claimed to have done all the testing necessary, NOT. And the pups were lucky people did them a favour and took them in. Is that a good enough reason? Some people might consider themselves breeders but not too manytrue dog people are fooled.
Our pounds are full of so called purebreds, rare colours, designer breeds, etc. Maybe it's time we stopped and reflected who put those dogs behind bars.

[MonicanHonda]

Okay then, we need to stop breeding dogs at all because dog shows are not the original purpose of any dog breed. So since we don't need purebred dogs for their purpose, we should just stop breeding dogs at all...

[Giselle]

Okay then, we need to stop breeding dogs at all because dog shows are not the original purpose of any dog breed. So since we don't need purebred dogs for their purpose, we should just stop breeding dogs at all...
Tell the farmer that his working Border Collie has no purpose. Tell the police force that their Belgian Malinois and GSDs have no purpose. Tell the hunter that his Brittany has no purpose. Tell a blind man that his guide Labrador has no purpose. Tell SAR groups that their bloodhounds are useless.

MonicanHonda, you're missing the point. I already said this: We are not arguing about the propagation of existing breeds. We are discussing the ethics of creating new breeds. That is it. Nothing more. Nothing less. Other folks may be interjecting their opinions about breeding in general, but this discussion, this discussion about undersized Aussies, is about creating new breeds.

Also, re: dog shows. Dog shows are, by definition, the evaluation of breeding stock. They're not judging dogs against each other, but to their written standards. "Breeding for dog shows", in essence, therefore means "breeding a correct dog" (ideally, of course). Ergo, I don't see why you're arguing against dog shows unless you've been entertaining a slightly misconstrued conception of dog shows and their purposes. Being a correct example of a breed is exemplifying a dog's original purpose, working or show.

[mr.chiwawa]

My mom ALWAYS told me if I don't have anything nice to say keep my mouth SHUT!! Which is what I am going to do....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad::mad::mad:

[shepgirl]

Okay then, we need to stop breeding dogs at all because dog shows are not the original purpose of any dog breed. So since we don't need purebred dogs for their purpose, we should just stop breeding dogs at all...

Such a ridiculous statement if I ever heard one. Dog shows serve the purpose of eliminating the dogs that are not up to standard and should not be used in a breeding program. They are supposed to be helping us weed out the bad specimens. Why do you think the standards for each breed are set? Why do you think so many dogs that go against the standard are disqualified from the show ring? Hopefully it's to help the buyers who have no experience so they can learn what to look for in the breed of their choice. Shows protect buyers and spectators alike from making the mistake of buying those "rare" colours or "designer " breeds. Your statements sound like a deja vue that we just discussed.

[MonicanHonda]

And your statements are just repetitive. Obviously not an idiot here. I KNOW what a dog show is for. I know exactly how they work and the purpose they serve. I am not new to this at all. I also know that a lot of dogs do their jobs, but not as much as they used to. The fact I'm basically getting at is, and this is off topic of the teacup aussies, is that all you guys do is complain about people breeding dogs that we do not need. Which yes, we don't need anymore dogs because there are a million in shelters. I just don't understand why you guys complain when it isn't going to make any difference. People are going to continue to breed their dogs no matter how one website feels. Continually yelling at people to spay and neuter their dogs (while they should, I agree with this) is not going to make them. People, in the end, will do what they want. In the end, new breeds will pop up. In the end, what we say here to anyone is not going to make a difference, so why argue about it?

[Jessika]

This just makes me angry, so I won't even get started.

There's breeding dogs for a purpose (even if it is companionship) then there's breeding dogs for profit... people just see dollar signs and don't think about the genetic problems they are breeding into them by making miniature versions of breeds that probably already have a plethora of health and/or genetic problems as it is.... Sigh.

[buttercup132]

And your statements are just repetitive. Obviously not an idiot here. I KNOW what a dog show is for. I know exactly how they work and the purpose they serve. I am not new to this at all. I also know that a lot of dogs do their jobs, but not as much as they used to. The fact I'm basically getting at is, and this is off topic of the teacup aussies, is that all you guys do is complain about people breeding dogs that we do not need. Which yes, we don't need anymore dogs because there are a million in shelters. I just don't understand why you guys complain when it isn't going to make any difference. People are going to continue to breed their dogs no matter how one website feels. Continually yelling at people to spay and neuter their dogs (while they should, I agree with this) is not going to make them. People, in the end, will do what they want. In the end, new breeds will pop up. In the end, what we say here to anyone is not going to make a difference, so why argue about it?
Complaining and educating are 2 different things FYI..
You've been barley active for a year, how would you know that educating the OG posters havn't made a difference?
I've seen it happen plenty of times, un educated people come here and once they realise what they are doing they stop.

It may not make a difference to some but we can damn well try because to us it makes a difference and to us that is our way of trying to help.

[Daisy and Delilah]

I haven't read this whole thread so the answer to this may already be here.

Has anybody actually seen one of these Aussies in person? The picture looks like regular sized Aussies to me.

JMHO: I think MH is just trying to state that some people will never change, no matter what.
It's always good to try to help people but some people can't be helped because they don't want help.

MH could have been lurking for a long time too before actually joining.

[MonicanHonda]

Thanks Daisy and Delilah. I in no way support breeders who breed in bad genetics. I have read this website for a looong time and it just bothers me how some of you jump down people's throats when they automatically say SOMETHING about breeding a dog. You don't know how qualified a person is just by talking to them on a website. And just because someone says sure they will spay or neuter your dog. You don't know that they actually did it. If I planned on breeding my dog, I'd tell you guys I planned on spaying her just so you didn't jump down my throat.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Thanks Daisy and Delilah. I in no way support breeders who breed in bad genetics. I have read this website for a looong time and it just bothers me how some of you jump down people's throats when they automatically say SOMETHING about breeding a dog. You don't know how qualified a person is just by talking to them on a website. And just because someone says sure they will spay or neuter your dog. You don't know that they actually did it. If I planned on breeding my dog, I'd tell you guys I planned on spaying her just so you didn't jump down my throat.


No problem.

You just made a statement that's your perogative to make. This is the way I took it. I never sensed any malice in your posts.:)

Good point about people saying one thing and doing another. Sadly, it probably happens all the time. How will I ever find out if John Doe neutered his dog in Canada when I live in Florida?

[MonicanHonda]

:) I never meant to sound angry. So I'm sorry if anyone took it that way. It's just my opinion and I don't want to push it on anyone. I'll stop posting here because I've stated how I feel and I don't want anyone to get angry at me. Thanks for the debate guys.

[bckrazy]

Which yes, we don't need anymore dogs because there are a million in shelters. I just don't understand why you guys complain when it isn't going to make any difference. People are going to continue to breed their dogs no matter how one website feels.

Sure. :rolleyes:

And, on that same token, people will continue to be homeless... children will continue to starve... crimes will continue to be commited... etc, etc, etc.

If no one speaks up, NOTHING will change. It makes me truly sad, for the world in general, that people actually think this way and think it's ok because one person will not make a difference. Well, one person can become two, then three, then thousands, then millions. IMO, responsible dog ownership has come a long, long way over the years and will continue to as long as people continue to educate themselves, become informed, and spread that knowledge. Look at puppy mills. 30 years ago, they were doing their thing and widely accepted. Now, albeit they still exist, they're being persecuted more & more for all of their crimes against animals and have become socially unacceptable for the most part.