Should This Soldier Be Charged ?

[lizbud]

Marine From Indiana Charged In Iraqi Soldier's Death
Men Stood Watch At Security Post

POSTED: 6:16 am EDT August 15, 2007


INDIANAPOLIS -- A Marine reservist from Indiana has been charged with murdering an Iraqi army soldier in Fallujah, an attorney said Tuesday.

Lance Cpl. Delano Holmes, 21, of Indianapolis, is accused of stabbing Munther Jasem Muhammed Hassin to death as the two men stood watch at a security post on Dec. 31, 2006, Holmes' lawyer said.

The struggle began in the pre-dawn darkness after Hassin allegedly opened his cell phone then lit a cigarette at the post, attorney Steve Cook said.


The men were not supposed to display any illuminated objects because of the threat of sniper fire, and Holmes made repeated attempts to make Hassin extinguish the cigarette, Cook said.

"(Holmes) said 'No, no,' but the Iraqi soldier refused to put out the cigarette," Cook said. "Holmes knocked it out of his hands and they started wrestling on the ground."

Holmes thought Hassin was reaching for his loaded AK-47, so the Marine killed him with his bayonet then radioed for help, Cook said.

Holmes faces charges of unpremeditated murder and making a false official statement, and has been in the Camp Pendleton brig since Feb. 23, Cook said.

Cook said his client was acting in self defense.

"Lance Corporal Holmes is not guilty of the charges and he intends to prove that at trial," Cook said.

Holmes was arraigned July 31 but reserved his right not to enter a plea.

A message left with a Camp Pendleton Marine spokesman was not immediately returned Tuesday night.

The attorney said he waited until now to go public about his client's case because he was hoping the Marines "would do the right thing" and drop the charges.

Holmes' court-martial is set to begin Dec. 3., said Cook, a former federal prosecutor in San Diego.

Holmes enlisted in the Marine reserves in May 2004 and was on his first deployment in Iraq, Cook said. He is from the 1st Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, based out of Lansing, Mich.

[Lady's Human]

Being that all we have to go on is a news article, I have mixed feelings about this.

Mixed chains of command create confusion. We don't know what the standing orders and special orders were, we don't know the Iraqi's chain of command's orders were, there are too many unknowns.

It may be a situation where the Marines and Centcom feel obligated to try the Marine as a show of fairness to assuage the Iraqi military, and that little to nothing will come of the trial.

[lizbud]

That's sorta what I was thinking. I don't think the Iraqi chain of command
has anything to do with the jerk smoking & using his cell phone as they
were on guard duty. :rolleyes: he could have gotten them both killed.

[Lady's Human]

The Iraqi Army is still learning. It may be that his chain of command didn't issue the same orders as the US chain of command did. Using a cell phone while on guard duty is pure idiocy, however. (Personally I wouldn't even allow troops to HAVE cell phones in that situation.)

[RICHARD]

Three on a match? :eek:

Here's where I get antsy about the whole thing-when anyone makes a false report that makes me uneasy about the whole incident. I think that maybe a report/call to HQ/Security head should have been made.




The story about three ciggies lit on a match being bad luck supposedly started in WWI. That gave a sniper ample time to zero in on the match light and get a kill.

[Lady's Human]

The problem with smoking on sentry/guard duty is simple. A cig shows up at about 1/4 mile with second gen soviet night vision equipment. You just can't take the risk.

The "False official statement" charge is something that goes without saying in a military trial. You are investigated, and if the statements the Marine made in his report to investigators are judged untrue by the tribunal, it's just one more thing to add to the list of convictions. Unlike a civilian trial, a court martial almost NEVER has one simple charge involved.

[Edwina's Secretary]

The man who should be charged is the one who sent this kid and a whole bunch of other kids into a senseless war...based on lies....in a country and a culture we don't understand...even if we ever could.

[Lady's Human]

All 540 of them, Sara?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'll settle for the three most egregious....Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld. You know...the top command?

[Lady's Human]

You know, I'm not going to get into this argument yet again. It's there, it's a fact, it has happened.

[RICHARD]

The man who should be charged is the one who sent this kid and a whole bunch of other kids into a senseless war...based on lies....in a country and a culture we don't understand...even if we ever could.

Is it too late to file charges against Kennedy and Johnson? :confused:

[Edwina's Secretary]

It's there, it's a fact, it has happened.

Yeah...Alfred E Newman...stuff happens...oh well...what me worry? Why try and fix it? Why try and hold anyone responsible?

Just let it go. And a young kid...sent to a country he doesn't understand...gets himself into a jam...let's hold HIM responsible.

And the big guys...it has happened. It's a fact. Oh well.

And I did not ask you...or anyone... to argue. Just stating my opinion. Still allowed?

[Lady's Human]

Yup, still allowed, just irritating when anything and everything gets turned into politics.

[RICHARD]

I'd be a little miffed if some yo-yo was acting stupid and putting my life on the line.


I guess there would be just as much outrage had that Marine been shot thru the head because someone wasn't following the basic rules of sentry duty? :confused:

[Lady's Human]

Had the Marine been shot in the head due to the negligence of the Iraqi,(highly unlikely, your average terrorist is a LOUSY shot), the Iraqi would have probably been shot on the spot, and there would have been no media coverage.

Another possible reason for the charges is that they may have had to due to whatever Status of Forces Agreement is in place with the Iraqi government.

[Edwina's Secretary]

I'd be a little miffed if some yo-yo was acting stupid and putting my life on the line.

RICHARD....exactly my point!

[crow_noir]

wow, that is a toughy. I too have mixed feelings on this.

If this is the truth of the matter down to the letter, than this is a sad situation for all. My sympathy to them all.

[wombat2u2004]

Hmmmmmm....a difficult situation. But I do think the outcome could have been different.
But yeah.....definately NO smoking on guard duty.
Wom

[lizbud]

I'd be a little miffed if some yo-yo was acting stupid and putting my life on the line.


I guess there would be just as much outrage had that Marine been shot thru the head because someone wasn't following the basic rules of sentry duty? :confused:


Just as I thought, this story made the headlines of the local newspaper
and all the TV news channels. The soldier is claiming he acted in self
defense. I tend to believe him. I wonder why there were only two people
guarding this post in he first place?

Maybe the military has to go through the motions but I hope they back
this guy up on this.

[Lady's Human]

normally on a sentry post there are only two servicemembers on guard, with a Sergeant of the Guard doing relief and rotation between the guard posts and a rapid reaction force.

I tend to believe the Marine as well, but the military has to investigate, just as a police officer who shoots someone is relieved of duties and investigated.

[lizbud]

normally on a sentry post there are only two servicemembers on guard, with a Sergeant of the Guard doing relief and rotation between the guard posts and a rapid reaction force.

I tend to believe the Marine as well, but the military has to investigate, just as a police officer who shoots someone is relieved of duties and investigated.


Here is another article which describes the scene a little more and gives
some more background on the soldier involved.


August 16, 2007


Hoosier accused of killing Iraqi soldier
Marine from Indianapolis says he acted in self-defense during 2006 incident


By Rob Schneider and Diana Penner
[email protected]

When Marine Lance Cpl. Delano V. Holmes returned to the United States from the battlefront in Iraq, the Indianapolis man thought he was heading home to be reunited with his family.


Instead, after landing at an Air Force base in California in February, Holmes, 21, was put in shackles and taken to the maximum-security section of the brig at Camp Pendleton.
After the military's version of a grand jury hearing July 18 and 25, the Ben Davis High School grad was charged with murdering an Iraqi soldier as the two stood watch at a tiny observation post at Camp Fallujah. Holmes also was charged with making a false statement about the incident.

Holmes doesn't deny he killed the man but says he acted in self-defense. A Marine Corps spokesman at Camp Pendleton confirmed the charges against Holmes but provided few details on the case.

Those who know Holmes, including a teacher, his foster mother and fraternity brothers from his days at IUPUI, described him as a "good guy" who joined the Marines because of the Corps' reputation as the toughest and most demanding branch of the service.
Holmes graduated from Ben Davis in 2003. Sandy Plyley, a former math teacher and now assistant principal there, remembered Holmes as a "very pleasant, friendly kid," who always had a smile on his face.

He joined the Marine Reserve in 2004 and continued his political science studies at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, the Rev. Jenni Crowley said.
Crowley came to know Holmes during his junior year at Ben Davis and then became his foster mother. Even though he is now an adult , her family is in the process of formally adopting Holmes, who assisted Crowley with her duties as director of the youth program at Orchard Park Presbyterian Church.
She said Holmes volunteered for duty in Iraq when he heard the Marines needed more machine gunners in the field.
Under fire

Holmes was a member of Charlie Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marine Regiment, a Marine Reserve unit based in Lansing, Mich.
After months of training and preparation, the outfit arrived in Iraq in September. Holmes served with a quick-response team, said his California attorney, Stephen Cook, which swung into action whenever there was trouble. By October, roadside bombs had claimed the first lives of Marines in his battalion.

The quick-response team saw constant action, Cook said. Statements from Holmes' officers and fellow enlisted men painted a picture of a serviceman who was highly respected.
"He was consistently placed in a lead gun truck as the lead turret gunner because they trusted and valued his judgment," Cook said. "He was cool under pressure."
A former federal prosecutor in San Diego, Cook said the steady toll of wounded and slain that the unit suffered had begun to wear on Holmes by December.

On the night of Dec. 31, Holmes was paired with an Iraqi soldier he had never met before to stand watch, Pvt. Munther Jasem Muhammed Hassin.
The two occupied a small observation post that was elevated above Camp Fallujah, Cook said. The post was just big enough for the two men to squeeze into with their gear.

Cook described it as an "extremely dangerous post," one that had been shot at a number of times in the days before the incident, including one time when a sniper wounded a Marine.
A language barrier kept the two men from talking to each other, Cook said. "He knew nothing about the soldier's background, his training." Some Marines had concerns about the training the Iraqi soldiers had received and whom they were loyal to, he added.

As Holmes stood watch, Hassin pulled out a cell phone, the glow of which lit up their post, Cook said. The man was doing something with the keypad on his cell phone, and Holmes couldn't tell what he was doing. Hassin quickly put the phone away and lit a cigarette.
Holmes tried repeatedly to get Hassin to put the cigarette out, Cook said, and made gestures and did everything he could think of to get his point across. The soldier only laughed.

"Finally, Lance Corporal Holmes reached over and knocked it out of his hands. The soldier grabbed him and they started wrestling."
In the pitch black, Holmes could feel Hassin move his hands and thought he was reaching for a weapon, Cook said. The only weapon available was a bayonet strapped to his chest, Holmes' attorney said. "He pulled it out and started striking at the soldier until he stopped fighting back."
Then Holmes called for help.

Aftermath


Christopher Kolomjec was the military attorney attached to Holmes' unit, as well as the public affairs officer.
Kolomjec was among the early advisers to the unit commander about the case, but he declined to talk in detail about the facts or the decision to charge Holmes.
Kolomjec said he did not know Holmes well before the slaying, but that he was not known to be a trouble-maker. If anything, he was considered "quiet and reserved," Kolomjec said.

Now in private practice and living in Grosse Pointe Farms, Mich., Kolomjec said Holmes was sent back to California soon after the slaying partly because the unit had nowhere to confine someone accused of such a crime at the camp. Kolomjec said he was sent to Camp Pendleton, north of San Diego, to be detained pending the outcome of the military's investigation.
He is scheduled for court-martial in December.

When Crowley first heard from her foster son after he reached Camp Pendleton, he had one message for her: He was innocent.
"It's a nightmare," he told her.

[RICHARD]

See, I always thought that using cellphones was dangerous and may get you killed.

[lizbud]

See, I always thought that using cellphones was dangerous and may get you killed.



Richard, seriously. Did your read the last article? This marine sounded like
a stand up kind of guy.

[RICHARD]

Richard, seriously. Did your read the last article? This marine sounded like
a stand up kind of guy.


Yes....Here's where I am coming from.

Forget who sent me there.


I am stuck inside a sand bagged sentry post.
I am stuck inside with a person who I cannot trust 100%.
I can't understand what he is saying and he is not following the
basic rules of "sentryism".

I can't know if he is telling Ackar that he has an American ripe for kidnapping, sniping or for a drive-by martydom.

The phone and the ciggies-it may be his last smoke for all I know- are signs that he is not serious about keeping me and his sorry arse alive.

ME? I would have probably done the same thing...But, first I would have made a call to let someone know that they needed to get out there ASAP...then I wqould have kicked his arse.

There is a difference in having a fight in an office or on a job site.

You don't have to woory about a third part jumping in and killing you.
As I said before-My only problem is with anyone lying on a report to get themselves out of a jam-that I will leave up to the system to figure out!

Was there justicfication for what this Marine did? I wasn't there, but you have to have a pretty good reason to shank someone.

Yep, He was stuck in situation where he should have been fearing for his life.
Before and after.

[lizbud]

Yes. it was a very scary situation. It was also in the pre-dawn hours,
so they were fighting in the dark. Very scary.Trust your gut time.