Storm's & Starr's Holistic Vet Visit:Update Starr's 2nd Holistic Visit 8-23-07

[krazyaboutkatz]

Hi, today was finally the day for Storm and Starr to go see a holistic vet. She works in 4 different locations and today she was working out of a house which wasn't too far away from me. She's a very nice lady and also has 6 cats of her own.:)

She told me to put the carriers on the floor and to unzip them so that the cats would be free to roam around. Storm eventually got out and was sniffing around and meowing. Starr just stayed in his carrier and was scared. Starr had also had a peeing accident on the way over.:( Luckily I always put the puppy training pads on the bottom of the carriers.

We talked about Storm first and he was there for his aggressive behavior. She told me that usually uneutered males will try fighting for alpha status when they are 2-3 years old and neutered males when they are 5-7 years old. Sunny will be 7 this month and he's the one who's been trying to take Storm's alpha status away from him.

She felt Storm and noticed that he felt very tense which can be caused by a lot of stress. She gave me some Calm Spirit Tea Pills to give him 2 times a day. I should hopefully notice an improvement in about 2 weeks or so. They're about the size of a pea and I can put them in pill pockets which Storm loves. If they work then I can buy a much larger bottle so it'll be less expensive. This bottle of 200 pills cost me $15 plus tax. He won't become immune to them either so this is a big plus. She wants to see him in 1 month. Depending on how he doing, she may also give him an accupunture treatment to help relieve his stress.

She also said that I need to pick which cat that I want to become the alpha cat. Then I need to always greet them first, pet them first, feed them first, and spend some one on one time with them first. I also need to spend some one on one time with all of my cats every day. I want Storm to continue to be the alpha cat since he's my first cat and the oldest. Right now I have to feed Starr first since I put him back in my bedroom and then I feed Storm next out in the main room. I'll see how all of this goes.

Then we talked about Starr and how he's been sick his whole life. I took him out and she listened to his heart, took his pulse, and felt his tummy area. She said that his tummy area felt pretty good so the pred is helping to keep his inflammation down. Next she put some dry accupunture needles in him and then put him back in his carrier. She had already removed his pee pad and put in a clean towel. We talked a lot more and later Starr was so relaxed and calm that he rolled over and started acting goofy like he does with me at home.:) He even started purring and making biscuits. I've never seen him so relaxed in front of a stranger or in a strange place before.:) The accupunture needles are to help reduce inflammation of his intestional system and to help relieve stress.

She wants to see Starr in 2 weeks and he'll probably receive another accupunture treatment. He's also on 3 types of herbal supplements. One is called GI Encap and it's 60 pills which can be pulled open and the powder can be mixed with water or food and it's $15plus tax. The next one is Primal Defense Powder and this can also be mixed with water or food and it's 81 grams and cost $55plus tax. It's a probiotic formula. These two are very important for me to give him one pill and one scoop daily. I can give it to him all at once or split the dose up over the day.

The third one is called Feline Basic Nutrients and it's basically vitamins. It's 60 pills for $15 plus tax and I give him 1 a day. I can also pull the pill apart and mix the powder in water or food. It's not as important as the first 2 so if he won't take it then I can start giving it to him later on. I should hopefully notice an improvement in 7-10 days. I'll still continue giving him the pred but will later be weaning him off of this. I'll also stop the pepcid ac. She said that later on he'll only need the Primal Defense Powder daily and then I should be able to give it to him less often and hopefully taper him off of it completely.:)

Another thing is that Starr needs a grain free diet. Right now he's on one which is Innova Evo and she said I could keep him on this and he should improve again with these extra supplements. I can also look into other grain free dry and wet foods and raw diet powders and foods as well. She feeds her cat's raw diets but some of them don't like certain ones.

I can also start feeding Storm these diets too.:) She said that the grain free diets are great for helping to prevent the formation of crystals. He was on Innova before and developed crystals but he was on the regular canned and lite dry formula which isn't grain free. I told her that Storm seems to be allergic to fish and will become itchy and lose the fur on his ears and this is why I'm scared to feed him Innova Evo. She said that we can address this later if this happens to him again. He may have some sort of nutritional imbalance.

I'm sorry for rambling on so much but I had such a great experience today that I wanted to share this with you. I'll continue to keep you updated about both Starr and Storm. My curent vet was right when she said that this doctor is worth the wait. Thanks for reading this.:)

[Catty1]

WOW, that sounds great! Would be great to have a couple of furbabes off steroids and stuff!

Goofy Starr - you liked the nice doctor, hey? :)

I hope they do well!

[jazzcat]

Wow is right. Sounds like she gave you a lot of good info on how to help the alpha male issue. Glad it was such a good visit. Sounds kind of amazing about Starr relaxing so much.

I hope her diet suggestions do the trick and I'm anxious to hear how the supplements work.

[AmberLee]

This sounds really hopeful. Glad to hear that things seem to be going better.

[shais_mom]

I have a holistic vet my crew goes to on occasion and she's awesome.
They are pricey but well worth in my opinion. Keegan had torn one or both of her ACL's and with her help she recovered without surgery.
I hope your life with your cats starts to get better! :D

[jennielynn1970]

I'm glad the holistic vet was able to give you some remedies and answers. I hope that they work out really well!!

[krazyaboutkatz]

Thanks everyone.:) So far so good. Storm thought he was getting a special treat tonight and I was able to put Starr's supplements in his wet food. He ate it without any problems. I hope that they'll both continue to take these without any problems.:)

[jenluckenbach]

WOW! I sure hope everything works out with the new suppliments etc. :)

[Killearn Kitties]

This sound all sounds very hopeful for Storm and Starr. I really hope that these things help them.

[K & L]

Very interesting Tracey! I sure hope this is the answer and all works out well. Keep us posted.

[Felicia's Mom]

Things are looking up for Storm and Starr!

[Kater]

Oh wow, thanks for sharing. This stuff is right up my alley, so I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions. :)

I work with a veterinarian who practices Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine along with Western modalities. I think she identifies herself as a complementary practitioner, as opposed to purely holistic or alternative. So similar, but different. :p

What do you mean by "dry" acupuncture needles? I feel like I should be able to figure out the implication....but I'm not sure I've heard this term.
If you don't mind me asking, who was the manufacturer of the various herbals? We mainly use products from 2 companies and I'm interested to learn about the others ones out there. :)
Also, do you know where she got her acupuncture training? Her herbal training? I realize this is not something you probably discussed, LOL, but maybe she has a website or something?
Anyway, if you'd be more comfortable PMing me the answers to these questions, that'd be fine. :)

Sending lots of healthy vibes to your handsome boys! Herbs can be a bit hit-or-miss in my experience, but the fact that they are so much safer than Western drugs is a huge plus (ETA: This is not to say that the person doling them out does not need training or that they can't be dangerously misused).

Staci - OMG, Keegan too? I guess I didn't realize that she has hip *and* knee problems, just like a certain black and white boy I know! Alternative medicine and physical therapy got Kirkie walking again too...surgery-free. :) Waaay cool! :cool:

[shais_mom]

Staci - OMG, Keegan too? I guess I didn't realize that she has hip *and* knee problems, just like a certain black and white boy I know! Alternative medicine and physical therapy got Kirkie walking again too...surgery-free. :) Waaay cool! :cool:
well she wouldn't have if the klutz wasn't just that - a klutz!!
she was laying in my bathroom and when she stood up her back paw slipped off the rug resulting in injury - the doc didn't want to crack the knee just in case it wasn't torn completely or ruptured - with her hip issues he didn't want to ruin it -
so off to the our holistic vet we went and then after we got it allllll healed up - she was flying out of my car after a tennis ball at a park and I think she must have slightly torn the other one or deeply bruised it -
our holistic vet said that she has issues b/c she is so in tune with me that she felt my pain b/c of my broken foot and my ankle injury from a car accident - :rolleyes: so I had to tell her she had to STOP hurting herself b/c with her hips - if she continued she may have had to be PTS.... :(
sorry to hijack -
thanks to Starr and Storm for allowing me to blurb a second about a
shhhh d-o-g~~~ :eek: :p

[Barbara]

Wow- that was interesting. The behavior reminds me of Filou's visit with the homeopathic vet. Filou went everywhere and was as curious and relaxed as he is in his best moments home. While I am not completely sure what I think of all the holistisc or homeopathic medication I certainly am impressed by the doctors.
Hope it works very well for Storm and Starr. :)

[Randi]

This sounds very good, Tracey. :) That vet seems to know what she's doing. I hope they'll continue to eat their supplements and feel better!

[krazyaboutkatz]

Thanks again everyone.:) Starr had a slight set back since I fed him a lot of wet food last night. He had some runny diarrhea and a couple of spots of it on my carpet.:( This morning I'm only giving him half of his mixture with some wet and a little dry mixed in and he loved it. It must really taste good because he's very picky when it comes to taking meds. I fed him a bit more dry later on so and I also gave him his pred so I hope he'll be okay now. I'll give him his second half of his mixture tonight. Storm took his pill with his pill pocket without any problems and he wanted more.:)

Kater, here is her website and I think it explains all about the different types of accupunture: The Western Dragon (http://www.thewesterndragon.com/thanks.html). I don't have the pill bottles in front of me and I have to get to work so I'll give you this info later.:)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Starr seems to be doing much better since I spaced out his herbal supplements mixture. I've also noticed that he seems to be feeling a lot better too. He's seems much happier and active.:) Storm's herbal pills still haven't kicked in yet because he was chasing Sky last night and he had a spat with Pearl this morning. All in all things are getting better around here so I'm not dissappointed at all. I know that things take time and that it won't happen over night.:)

In case any one is interested in finding a holistic vet near them here are two good links that I found: American Holistic Vet Search (http://www.holisticvetlist.com/) and Vet Locator (http://www.vetlocator.com/holisticandalternative.php?gclid=CLyo8Mey7o0CFQNBY Aod_GY5GA). I just typed in the works holistic vet lists to do the search.:)

Kater, the companies are Thorne Veterinary for the Feline Basic Nutients pills, Thorne Research for the GI-Encap pills, Plum Flower for the Calm Spirit Tea Pills, and Garden Of Life for the Primal Defense powder. I hope that this helps.:)

[ChrisH]

Sounding good, Tracey. :D

[krazyaboutkatz]

These new herbal supplements are amazing.:D Starr hasn't had any more accidents and he's making nice firm poops too.:) The real test will be when I finally wean him off of the pred. I'm so glad that this is working even sooner than expected.:)

Storm has still been chasing Sky and I have to keep separating them. I also noticed last night that one of them had peed on the small rug in the kitchen.:( I washed the rug and decided to wash the hall way runner too. I won't put these down until all problems have been resolved. So far so good this morning.:)

[Emeraldgreen]

Hi, you mentioned in your first posting something called 'pill pockets'. Do you mind my asking what those are? It sounds like something you stuff a pill into that a cat will eat but I've never heard of it before.

[Emeraldgreen]

Does Starr have IBD or IBS? I missed the original post as to why he is seeing a holistic vet. My cat Jimmy does and he is on prednisilone and has been for years. He has very, very soft stools and though he is mostly comfortable, I'd like to get him off the pred if I could. He also has asthma though but I do have a pump for that so he could get pred for his asthma that way rather than in a pill that goes into his bloodstream and throughout his body. Anyway, I thought I'd ask just in case it was IBD because it sounds like you are having great success with the holistic approach.

[Catty1]

These are Pill Pockets. You can get them from your vet, or some pet stores have them. Next time you're on the mainland.... :)


http://www.cat-alog.com/cat_food/pill_pockets_chicken.jpg

[Emeraldgreen]

WOW!!! I can't believe I haven't seen those before! Brilliant. I'll see if I can find some and try them out. Tiger is fairly suspicious of new things though so he might not go for the bait. lol It's worth a try though. Thanks! :D

[krazyaboutkatz]

Does Starr have IBD or IBS? I missed the original post as to why he is seeing a holistic vet. My cat Jimmy does and he is on prednisilone and has been for years. He has very, very soft stools and though he is mostly comfortable, I'd like to get him off the pred if I could. He also has asthma though but I do have a pump for that so he could get pred for his asthma that way rather than in a pill that goes into his bloodstream and throughout his body. Anyway, I thought I'd ask just in case it was IBD because it sounds like you are having great success with the holistic approach.

Hi, Starr has colitis and both of his large and small intestine are infected with eosinophlic cells. My vet said that this causes food allergies but I just looked up a link and it said that this would be Eosinophilic IBD. He's been on several different allergy diets and in the beginning they work as long as he takes his 5mg of prednisolone in the morning. Over time they stop working though and he starts having mushy poos and sometimes very runny diarrhea.:(

The holistic vet said that once his system becomes used to the new food that it then starts going haywire. I think she said it's due to the eosinophilic cells and the fact that his intestional system isn't functioning properly. I can't remember exactly what she said. With the 3 herbal supplements, they'll help to heal his insides and hopefully over time he'll only need to stay on a grain free diet. He's continuing to do very well.

For any one that has a cat with IBS or IBD, I'd highly recommend that you make an appointment with a holistic vet. I hope that this helps and that you'll also be able to get your cat Jimmy off of the prednisolone. It may be harder though since he's been on it for years. Starr has only been on it since about mid March of this year. He also had a surgical biopsy to confirm his diagnosis. Good luck.:)

[Emeraldgreen]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into the eosinophlic cells to learn more about it. Jimmy was brought into the SPCA after he was found wandering the streets skin and bones and the worst case of diarrhea they'd ever seen. The vet hospital that he was taken to put him in isolation for a month and they treated him with metronidazole and then put him onto prednisone. He got better and then he turned into the 'clinic cat' at the hospital and lived there for almost a year. They needed to find a home for him so I took him and that was about 5 years ago.
I have his records and a real diagnosis was never made. It was assumed that he had IBD and that if pred. helped then he should stay on it. As well, his breathing problems, a soft wheezy sound was assumed to be asthma and they told me that the pred. should help that too. Then they switched him to prednisilone because it was better for his system than prednisone. Anyway, I'll try and cut this short.... I ended up taking him to my vet a few months ago (a different vet) because he was losing weight and just didn't look good. They did some xrays and didn't find anything. I told the vet that he had asthma and she said that it was strange because the xrays didn't show asthma symptoms like narrowing of the airways. The thing is though that he does wheeze and has done so since they found him on the streets and the pred does seem to help and the asthma pump that I use on occasion does seem to help too but I think it's time that I took Jimmy to a holistic vet as you suggested. He stopped losing weight and looks healthy now but he still has wheezy sounds and still has very soft stools. His dosage of pred is 2.5mg every other day so it's not that high but if he doesn't need to be on it than I'd like to get him off it. I'm wondering if his condition of IBD and asthma are connected and are actually something else entirely.
I did switch him to the Innova Evo a few months ago and it really seemed to upset his stomach. He was racing to his box so many times a day and very urgently and his stools were like water so I switched him back to Medi-cal Preventive.

[krazyaboutkatz]

EG, If you did want to have him properly diagnosed you'd have to take him off of the pred for a while or else the test results wouldn't be accurate. This is one reason why I decided to have Starr diagnosed before I started giving him the pred. At my other vets, he was on such a small doseage of pred that it did nothing for him. I've also read that over time pred dosen't work as well as it did initially. Maybe your Jimmy has something else. I hope that you'll be able to find out what his problem is and that he'll be able to get the help that he needs to stop his diarrhea and asthma problems. Good luck and please keep me updated about him.

[CathyBogart]

Is this Dr. Cera you're seeing? She is an amazing lady!

[krazyaboutkatz]

Is this Dr. Cera you're seeing? She is an amazing lady!
Yes, I guess this is the same lady that you're thinking of. Everyone seems to call her Dr. Sara instead of using her last name which is Skiwski. She's the holistic vet that's at Adobe on Tues. and Wed. evenings. I saw her at her location in Cupertino. She's so nice and such a compassionate doctor. She looks so young but sure has a lot experience and really knows her stuff.:)

[krazyaboutkatz]

I gave Starr his vitamin B-12 shot yesterday morning and in the past this seems to make his stools looser or cause some diarrhea. Now I wish that I hadn't given it to him. This morning he had an accident on my kitchen floor and it's runny diarrhea.:( I guess it's just too hard on his tummy. Dr. Sara had e-mailed me to ask about him yesterday and I even mentioned about the possibility of the vitamin B-12 shot causing some loose stools. I wish I hadn't been right.:( No more of these for Starr. I hope he recovers quickly.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Hi, I don't know if anyone is still following this thread or not but I just wanted to let you know that Starr is doing well again. Hopefully he won't have any more set backs and will remain happy and healthy.:)

I think that Storm is starting to get calmer. He sure loves getting his pills with his pill pockets.:)

[Catty1]

YAY Starr! Is there a milder or lower dose of B12?

Glad he is doing well.

And Storm is mellowing?...we'll have to change his name to Spring Breeze... :D

[krazyaboutkatz]

YAY Starr! Is there a milder or lower dose of B12?

Glad he is doing well.

And Storm is mellowing?...we'll have to change his name to Spring Breeze... :D
I was reading what was in the Feline Vitamin Supplement and it has vitamin B-12 in it so I think this will be good enough for him.:) I was also giving him 5mg of Vitamin B-12 every month in a shot and this is probably a very strong dose since it's given monthly. I'll stop giving this to him because I'd hate to see this cause him to relapse again. I'm sure that the holistic vet will agree with me and I'll be seeing her again next Thursday.

[jenluckenbach]

Yup, I've been reading. Glad things are improving. :)

[Kater]

Thank you for answering my questions...it does help. :)

I'm SO glad to hear that things are going well with Starr & Storm. :)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Hi, I thought I'd update you about Starr. He went to the holistic vet again today and he was much calmer towards her. She gave him another accupunture treatment and when she felt his tummy area she could tell that he has already improved.:) He's been doing very well.:)

I asked her when we could start weaning him off of the pred. She wants to wait until he's been on the supplements for at least 60 days to make sure that his system is back on track. Then we'll do it very slowly. She said if he had been on the pred for a long time then it would take even longer to wean him off of it. She's been working with a cat that was on pred for about 6 years and it's taken about 1 year to get him down to a very small dose of pred which he'll eventually be weaned off of.

I asked her if I had taken Starr to her when I first started noticing his diarrhea problem if she would have treated him differently. She said that he would have probably only had to be on 2 of his 3 supplements and that he probably wouldn't have needed his GI Encap supplement. Back then it never even occurred to me to take him to a holistic vet. Starr goes back in 3 weeks and Storm goes back for his 2nd visit on Sept. 6th. Storm's been calmer lately but he still has stormy moments. She said that in time these should go away.

[jazzcat]

Glad things are going so well KAK!

How about Storm, has he calmed down and stopped chasing. Please let me know because if it works I would like to check into it for Rocky. I thought he had gotten a little better but last night (I'm 99% sure it was Rocky) jumped or just really scared Scout and she limped around for about a half hour. She's fine now but this is getting out of hand.