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View Full Version : Medicine Hat girl guilty of first-degree murder *1st post edited



Catty1
07-09-2007, 07:13 PM
I actually thought the 12 year old might get a break here...I think she is the youngest person in Canada to ever be convicted of this. I just find it hard to believe that her parents' disapproval, internet restrictions and more - could have turned so disastrous.

I just can't believe it was so much her fault when she was hanging out with a 23-year old... :(


************************************************** ********

Medicine Hat girl guilty of first-degree murder
Last Updated: Monday, July 9, 2007 | 5:55 PM MT
CBC News

A 13-year-old Alberta girl has been found guilty of first-degree murder in the killings of her parents and younger brother.

The jury in Medicine Hat handed down its decision on Monday after less than a day of deliberations in the Court of Queen's Bench.

The girl faces a maximum sentence of up to six years in custody followed by up to four years supervision in the community.

The girl, who cannot be named under the Youth Criminal Justice Act, was accused of killing her parents and her eight-year-old brother on April 23, 2006, when she was just 12.

During the trial, which began June 4, the girl testified that her 23-year-old boyfriend, Jeremy Steinke, broke into her Medicine Hat home and attacked and killed her mother and father.

The girl testified that Steinke then ordered her to stab her brother, which she did once, before Steinke [killed him].

The girl testified she was in a "zombie" state at the time and unable to stop her boyfriend, or go for help.

She admitted in court that she and her boyfriend used to talk about killing her parents prior to the slayings, but she insisted she was only joking at the time.

Steinke, now 24, is also charged with first-degree murder in the deaths, but has yet to enter a plea and does not have a trial date set.

EARLIER REPORT:

Earlier in her testimony, she said she and Steinke had "hypothetical" conversations about killing her parents.

She said they used to talk late at night about how much she hated her parents, who didn't approve of their relationship.

She said they discussed possible ways of killing them, including making it look like a murder-suicide or hitting them on the head while they slept and then burning their house down. She said the plans included killing her brother because he was too sensitive to be an orphan.

But the girl said she never took the conversations seriously and considered them no big deal because all of her friends talked like that. She called it "stupid talk."

"This wasn't unusual for my group of friends — talking about killing people."

The accused said that a week before the killings she snuck out of the house and went with Steinke back to his trailer where they had sex. She said they had sex again in a friend's apartment after the killings, only hours before her family's bodies were discovered by her brother's friend.

"I loved him so much. I thought it would bring us closer together," she said, when asked why she would have sex when she was just 12 years old.

moosmom
07-09-2007, 07:38 PM
:eek: What in the **** is a 23 year old MAN doing with a 12 year old CHILD??? :eek:

Edwina's Secretary
07-09-2007, 07:53 PM
:eek: What in the **** is a 23 year old MAN doing with a 12 year old CHILD??? :eek:

I think the question is...why in the **** is this posted? :eek:

mike001
07-09-2007, 08:02 PM
Posted cause we all read about it and I for one was glad to hear the verdict.
Could be that it will alert some parents to watch who their kids are keeping company with. That part of BC is known to be pretty rough anyway, but where were the parents when this 12 yr old was with the 23 yr old man?
I would hope she would be getting some kind of conselling while in prison. It is sad, but where do we draw the line...a 12 yr old today knows more than kids of generations ago.

Cinder & Smoke
07-09-2007, 08:14 PM
I think the question is ... why in the **** is this posted? :eek:

Have to agree ...
This is PET Talk ... "sensational news" can be covered elsewhere.
:(

Catty1
07-09-2007, 08:17 PM
Alberta, not BC. And this is the Dog House. HELLO?

Just to show how wrong things can go...lots of teens get upset at their parents, think they are mean, and want them "gone" but not really.

Just make sure your teen is not dating a dim-witted drugged psycho!

The man's mom is dying of cancer, and is just heartbroken over what her son did.

Apparently, both these people were into the Goth culture.

I just hope she is young enough to get it.

The authorities allowed them to pass notes to each other in their respective prisons(hoping to gain clues or insight). I read some. She just loved him etc etc and he her.

Then in court she says the killings are all his fault.

Well, there goes THAT romance....sheesh...

Hard to believe someone that young can be guilty of 1st degree murder. :(

NicoleLJ
07-09-2007, 08:33 PM
That part of BC is known to be pretty rough anyway, but where were the parents when this 12 yr old was with the 23 yr old man?
.

Ummm Medicine Hat is in Alberta. And I should know because it is only hour from the where I live.

As for where the parents were if you had been keeping up with the trial and the info, as I have every day on teh news and in the papers, the parents were doing things to try and stop the girl from seeing him. They didn't agree with it one bit. They grounded her, took away privliges and so on. So they were doing things to stop it. The last thing I would do here is blame the victims(the parents and son). If anyone knows anything about teens is you can't always completely control everyone they see or everything they do. You can try but a child of that age is not going to be watched 24/7 and can't be. She did go to school and so on where the parents couldn't watch what she was doing.

The parents were trying to fix the problem, from what I read, so the last people I would blame is them.
Nicole & Sheena (moms to be)

columbine
07-09-2007, 09:45 PM
Apparently, both these people were into the Goth culture.No - they played violent video games!
No - they must have been involved in a religious cult!
No, no, no - it was all that TV and sugary junk food!
Check their record collections - bet it'll ALL be heavy metal!

:(

These two were crazy. Maybe drunk or on drugs. "Goth culture," if anything, "drives" kids to spend all their money on art supplies or musical instruments. Scapegoating broad swaths of the population serves no purpose, and just scares people needlessly.

Love, Columbine

Edwina's Secretary
07-09-2007, 10:06 PM
Alberta, not BC. And this is the Dog House. HELLO?

Just to show how wrong things can go...lots of teens get upset at their parents, think they are mean, and want them "gone" but not really.

Just make sure your teen is not dating a dim-witted drugged psycho!

The man's mom is dying of cancer, and is just heartbroken over what her son did.

Apparently, both these people were into the Goth culture.

I just hope she is young enough to get it.

The authorities allowed them to pass notes to each other in their respective prisons(hoping to gain clues or insight). I read some. She just loved him etc etc and he her.

Then in court she says the killings are all his fault.

Well, there goes THAT romance....sheesh...

Hard to believe someone that young can be guilty of 1st degree murder. :(

Hello back at you! Now I ask the question again...WHY is this posted. I don't need to be told the obvious. This is the Dog House. I know that. My question is...while I am sure this is a locally interesting story...do you really think there are people on PetTalk for whom this would be an illustrative story???

Or is it just fun to post?

sparks19
07-09-2007, 10:16 PM
Well I really don't see how this is any different from any other posts in this section about murders and the like.....

I don't see anything more offensive about this post than any of the others.

Such a tragic story :(

wombat2u2004
07-09-2007, 10:34 PM
Well HELLO to ALL of YOU !!!!!
Good post Catty1.
I have to agree with Sparksy and Catty1, that this story is no different than a lot of other stories that are posted here. And I for one, being a previous and also current father of a teenage girl, find this to be most interesting and enlightening.
I'm sorry ES if you find this thread unsuitable, but, I guess this is not the drinkies on Thursday's thread. There is a real world out there you know !!!!
You could always go elsewhere if you find this thread offensive....eh ???
Wom

Catty1
07-09-2007, 10:49 PM
And Orem, Utah is INTERNATIONAL? :confused:

And Columbine - I wish I could have detailed that a bit more than painting it with a broad brush. You're right. There is a lively Goth internet board in "The Hat", as it's called, and some kids are just on it for fun. Others were backing this girl and the guy. There was more to it than implied in the way I listed it. Wrong to generalize...these two shared a lifestyle and were quite into it. (didn't help that the boyfriend was majorly into crack).

Edwina's Secretary
07-09-2007, 10:53 PM
I thought the Orem post just as inane and pointless.

You are right. You want to talk about sick people and the sick things they do.

I'll leave you to it. Enjoy.

Catty1
07-09-2007, 10:55 PM
[text deleted]:p I was hoping this 12 year old might get a light sentence. I found this whole thing disturbing, and wanted to share it.

Sick, yes. Reality - yes. I didn't realize that was forbidden here.

lady_zana
07-10-2007, 05:17 AM
No - they played violent video games!
No - they must have been involved in a religious cult!
No, no, no - it was all that TV and sugary junk food!
Check their record collections - bet it'll ALL be heavy metal!

:(

These two were crazy. Maybe drunk or on drugs. "Goth culture," if anything, "drives" kids to spend all their money on art supplies or musical instruments. Scapegoating broad swaths of the population serves no purpose, and just scares people needlessly.

Love, Columbine

With that, I agree. I would fall under the "Goth" category - not Emo, Big difference! :p - but I've never taken drugs in life, never killed anyone, work for human rights, and my favorite video game is Kingdom Hearts! - It's hard to feel violent imagining a world where Mickey Mouse is the king. ( :p Anyone else play? I'm a total KH-junkie.)

What I'm trying to say is just because someone is goth, it doesn't mean they are a bad person. You can't tell what a person is going to be like because of the way they look.

Before I close, I want to mention something the article said - it said her parents "didn't approve of their relationship." Huh? If they didn't approve, why didn't they stop it? I don't know the exact laws of Canada but I do know they have laws against a 23-year-old dating a 12-year old child.

lady_zana
07-10-2007, 05:23 AM
Hello back at you! Now I ask the question again...WHY is this posted. I don't need to be told the obvious. This is the Dog House. I know that. My question is...while I am sure this is a locally interesting story...do you really think there are people on PetTalk for whom this would be an illustrative story???

Or is it just fun to post?

I had never heard this story before and found it interesting. There ARE people on PT who would find this to be an illustrative story - for one, me. I've always been interested in death and I devour true crime books. Not the best hobby, perhaps but that's me. Must be the goth in me coming out! :p

Pam
07-10-2007, 05:36 AM
Well I have read all of the threads and thought I'd throw in my two cents. When one visits the Dog House one is in store for anything. That's why this place was invented. Did I find the story upsetting? You bet. Does Catty have the right to post it. Yes. This is a story that most of us in the US had not heard about. So many of our horror stories from here in the US (Lacy Peterson and the recent missing young women who have been killed) have made it into the Dog House. Murder is murder. Sickness is sickness. It is all the same to me. If someone doesn't want to read these things they just don't need to click.

wombat2u2004
07-10-2007, 06:09 AM
Bang on the nail head first time there Pam !!!!
Wom

Marigold2
07-10-2007, 08:18 AM
Pam and Wombat I do agree with you.

I would also like to say that if this had been my daughter and she was dating someone that old I would first have called the police, then took her to therapy, and if none of that had an effect I would send her to a military camp or private school out of state where this creep couldn't find her and she could not contact him. If I had to take on a second or third job, remotgage my home, sell some of my prized items to pay for this private school I would. Nothing good ever comes out of these sicko relationships.


Well I have read all of the threads and thought I'd throw in my two cents. When one visits the Dog House one is in store for anything. That's why this place was invented. Did I find the story upsetting? You bet. Does Catty have the right to post it. Yes. This is a story that most of us in the US had not heard about. So many of our horror stories from here in the US (Lacy Peterson and the recent missing young women who have been killed) have made it into the Dog House. Murder is murder. Sickness is sickness. It is all the same to me. If someone doesn't want to read these things they just don't need to click.

wombat2u2004
07-10-2007, 08:41 AM
Pam and Wombat I do agree with you.

I would also like to say that if this had been my daughter and she was dating someone that old I would first have called the police, then took her to therapy, and if none of that had an effect I would send her to a military camp or private school out of state where this creep couldn't find her and she could not contact him. If I had to take on a second or third job, remotgage my home, sell some of my prized items to pay for this private school I would. Nothing good ever comes out of these sicko relationships.

If this was my daughter at 12, and having it off with a 23 year old.....that guy would not see the light of day in a very long time...period !!!!
Wom

mike001
07-10-2007, 09:10 AM
Pam and Wombat I do agree with you.

I would also like to say that if this had been my daughter and she was dating someone that old I would first have called the police, then took her to therapy, and if none of that had an effect I would send her to a military camp or private school out of state where this creep couldn't find her and she could not contact him. If I had to take on a second or third job, remotgage my home, sell some of my prized items to pay for this private school I would. Nothing good ever comes out of these sicko relationships.


Great post Marigold. Those are the methods I would have used also if it were my daughter. Taking away privileges and grounding is baby stuff, not applicable for something as serious as this. That 12 yr old looked older that my 17 yr old grandaughter.
And yes...I think Cathy did have a right to post her opinion, it's news, we get vents here that have nothing to do with dogs , so this is no different...it's just a topic to discuss.

Queen of Poop
07-10-2007, 09:20 AM
I appreciate seeing the post. We cannot hide our heads in the sand and think that things like this don't happen, they do, obviously. The more we know the better we are able to perhaps help out should we come across a 12, 13, 14 year old girl who is madly in love with her older boyfriend and talking about killing her family because they're being to strict/tough on her. It can be more than just talk. It happened this once, I am sure it is thought of many more times.

sparks19
07-10-2007, 09:53 AM
I appreciate seeing the post. We cannot hide our heads in the sand and think that things like this don't happen, they do, obviously. The more we know the better we are able to perhaps help out should we come across a 12, 13, 14 year old girl who is madly in love with her older boyfriend and talking about killing her family because they're being to strict/tough on her. It can be more than just talk. It happened this once, I am sure it is thought of many more times.


The saddest part is.... this isn't an isolated case. There are many cases of kids that go off the deep end and kill their parents :( Now of course they are not all fueled by a 23 year old pervert manipulating a 12 year old girl but just the fact that she could be talked into doing such a thing and actually go through with it is very frightening. I really hope this opens peoples eyes that even some kids are capable of such terrifying things. Don't ignore the warning signs.

As for whether this thread should be here or not.... I really don't see the issue... it SAYS in the TITLE what it is about. If you find it offensive it is YOUR choice not to open it. "12 year old girl charged with first degree murder" Nothing misleading there. You KNOW what the content of the thread is.... if you don't want to read it... DON'T.

Catty1
07-10-2007, 12:09 PM
I wonder why the parents didn't try to have Jeremy Steinke charged? Or at least investigated?

Too late now... :(

sparks19
07-10-2007, 12:18 PM
I wonder why the parents didn't try to have Jeremy Steinke charged? Or at least investigated?

Too late now... :(
Makes you wonder doesn't it :(

lizbud
07-10-2007, 01:16 PM
Have to agree ...
This is PET Talk ... "sensational news" can be covered elsewhere.
:(


You mean that I can't post the story of a man accused of biting off the
lip & ear of his girlfriends's 3 yr old daughter? Oh darn, it was so "interesting
and enlightning" :rolleyes:

Catty1
07-10-2007, 01:22 PM
...or about a guy shooting a horse that wandered into his garden?

Is that story true, Lizbud?

Didn't think so.

That 12-year-olds are capable of first degree murder when it comes to their families is a thought/fact worth thinking about...and maybe some parents have started paying more attention to their kids now that this is public.

"Sensational" - yeah, right.

sparks19
07-10-2007, 02:18 PM
I REALLY don't get the big deal here.

If you don't want to read it and think it is sensational news... then DON'T READ IT. Catty has the option to post it.... YOU have the option to not read it or respond to it. YOu KNOW what it is about before you even open the thread.

Lets carry on with the topic of the thread.

CAtty, it really makes you wonder why the parents would not try to have that guy charged.... they HAD to have known that a 23 year old dating a 12 year old is against the law and they really COULD have done something about it. Seems they were afraid of upsetting their daughter more than anything.

Lady's Human
07-10-2007, 02:39 PM
Whether or not it was against the law for the 23 y/o to be dating the 12 y/o, my conversation with the "man" in question would have been very short and one sided. To paraphrase a line from an internet list ("Rules for dating an NCO's daughter"), I'm own weapons, and I have 2 1/2 acres of land with a pond surrounded by 600 acres of farmland. Your choice........

wombat2u2004
07-10-2007, 03:14 PM
Whether or not it was against the law for the 23 y/o to be dating the 12 y/o, my conversation with the "man" in question would have been very short and one sided. To paraphrase a line from an internet list ("Rules for dating an NCO's daughter"), I'm own weapons, and I have 2 1/2 acres of land with a pond surrounded by 600 acres of farmland. Your choice........

All you'd need then is a dose of Agent Orange........he'd be in BIG trouble then....HAH !!! :D
Wom

wombat2u2004
07-10-2007, 03:19 PM
CAtty, it really makes you wonder why the parents would not try to have that guy charged.... they HAD to have known that a 23 year old dating a 12 year old is against the law and they really COULD have done something about it. Seems they were afraid of upsetting their daughter more than anything.

That's what I was thinking. But as far as I'm concerned, there is no balance with the issue of him being with her at that age as against hurting her feelings. She is way too young to really have substantial feelings other than infatuation.
Like I said before.....if it were my daughter, he wouldn't be seeing the light of day for a very long time, so long in fact, that it probably wouldn't be until his next life came around.
Wom

Catty1
07-10-2007, 03:20 PM
Well...not to speak ill of the dead...but perhaps they were control freaks, and blamed their daughter, and thought making her 'behave' would solve the whole problem. Or maybe were just afraid of the weird boyfriend doing something if they did call the police.

The youngster might have the answer to that.

Just 'maybes' for now...

wombat2u2004
07-10-2007, 03:36 PM
Well...not to speak ill of the dead...but perhaps they were control freaks, and blamed their daughter, and thought making her 'behave' would solve the whole problem. Or maybe were just afraid of the weird boyfriend doing something if they did call the police.

The youngster might have the answer to that.

Just 'maybes' for now...

Perhaps it'll all come out. Who knows ???
But I suppose one couldn't really comprehend killing ones own parents, well not a rational thinking person anyway. Maybe there's just more to the story than we will ever know.
Wom

moosmom
07-10-2007, 03:54 PM
Bang on the nail head first time there Pam !!!!

Ditto

lizbud
07-10-2007, 04:35 PM
Is that story true, Lizbud?

Didn't think so.


Yes , it is. Do you want a link to read all the gory details? I won't post
it here, but I'll pm it.

RICHARD
07-10-2007, 07:54 PM
Hello back at you! Now I ask the question again...WHY is this posted.


Because Al Gore III didn't kill anyone while he was driving all effed up in Laguna Niguel?
:confused:


Thanks for siding with me.

The U*** story was inane and pointless. But something in it caused all nylon and cotton material to wad up.. :eek:

Marigold2
07-10-2007, 08:15 PM
LOL great minds think alike. I too would have to buy a new shovel for the task.
However later today on my way to work I remember a story very much like this when I was a teenager. This must have been around 1975 or 76 here in Ohio just one town over from where I grew up. The girl was 17 and she and her boyfriend killed the mom and two brothers. She shot them and I remember they didn't die right away so they decided to set the house on fire. I think the boys were about 7 and 9. Mom's name was Donna, I do remember that. Dad was out of town. Not to be racist but the boyfriend I remember was black. My dad was a cop at the time and everyone was looking for them. A salt and pepper couple is what the cops called them in private. They were stopped on their way to Canada, easy to spot of course. I remember a comment from the neighbor, she looked out her kitchen window and saw her friends house on fire. Her comment was "I hope Donna's ok". The interesting part about all this was that the father was later accused of molesting the daughter, which made such perfect sense. You don't get that kind of anger, hatred and revenage unless something else is going on. Perhaps the parents of this girl also had something to hide. Things are never as easy as they appear. There had to be something sinister going on at her house for her to seek the company of someone so old. Now that 30 years have passed I sometimes wonder what happened to that 17 year old girl. I am sure she is free. I wonder if what she did has ever registed with her. I wonder if her father felt any guilt. This is a sad sorry all the way around.

T

Whether or not it was against the law for the 23 y/o to be dating the 12 y/o, my conversation with the "man" in question would have been very short and one sided. To paraphrase a line from an internet list ("Rules for dating an NCO's daughter"), I'm own weapons, and I have 2 1/2 acres of land with a pond surrounded by 600 acres of farmland. Your choice........

Catty1
07-10-2007, 09:24 PM
Letter written by girl after interrogation, but before conviction. Not admitted as evidence.

For what it is worth.
************************************************** ***
Text of letter

Dear My loverldly parental units. (followed by a heart with an X crossed through it)

I am writing in response? to the events of Sunday morning. A terrible thing happened, something i feel was all my fault. You must know i love you all dearly and are in my prayers. I wish peace upon your souls in the summerland. To my little brother i apoligise for letting you hear what had happend, also for causing you any pain and for frightening you so much. To my parents, i hope you know that through all that has happend i loved you the whole while. I wish i could take everything back. I wish it hadn’t happend, I wish you were with me right now. Because now i have no one. I pray you can forgive me, and Jeremy to because he was under the influence of mind alterning substance and did it out of love for me. He is most possibly the kindest person i’ve ever met his wish being only for my happiness. Through all the fights and hatred exchanged, I still loved you. I am sorry for my sarcasims? was taken to heart. I never ment to harm you. I pray you can be at peace somehow.

BC_MoM
07-10-2007, 11:07 PM
Um.. why would a 12 year old girl talk about killing her parents? That is just warped. And her friends, apparently, speak like this too? That's freaky.

I think the sentencing was fair. Kids these days are growing up a LOT faster than they used too. This crud about kids not knowing the consequences of their actions is a real load.

sparks19
07-11-2007, 09:27 AM
Um.. why would a 12 year old girl talk about killing her parents? That is just warped. And her friends, apparently, speak like this too? That's freaky.

I think the sentencing was fair. Kids these days are growing up a LOT faster than they used too. This crud about kids not knowing the consequences of their actions is a real load.

I agree.....

I can definitely say at 12 years old I KNEW BETTER. And to say that a 12 year old doesn't comprehend death or murder is just an excuse.... but to say they don't understand it after the blood has spilled and they carry on and kill more after that first person? I think they would have figured death out by then :mad:

Cataholic
07-11-2007, 10:14 AM
I am stunned, again, that there is anyone on here that would think, in this particular situation, that shifting ANY blame towards the parents is reasonable.


What, is her brother at fault, too, for yelling "nana nana boo boo" too many times? Or, maybe because he made fun of her for having bad skin?

RICHARD
07-11-2007, 11:19 AM
What, is her brother at fault, too, for yelling "nana nana boo boo" too many times?


And I thought ignoring women made them go crazy. :confused:

lizbud
07-11-2007, 04:34 PM
And I thought ignoring women made them go crazy. :confused:



Richard, That's a myth.


It's really quite the opposite. Trust me. :p

theterrierman
07-12-2007, 07:31 PM
Apparently, both these people were into the Goth culture.


Great, so the blood didn't show up on their black clothes. Really, what's the point in mentioning that? Goths are not inherently more murderous than anyone else. I'm not trying to be mean, honestly, but I hate stereotypes. I'm not a Goth by any means, but a close friend of mine is, and she would never even talk about killing someone, let alone do it.

You look at the fact that the man would have sex with a preteen, and that she was consenting, that should tell you how messed up in the head the both of them were.

Catty1
07-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Hi, Terrierman - yes, someone else addressed this earlier in the thread, and I admitted not posting any detail about it. Since the older guy in this was already on crack and various things, his goth 'membership' would have been darker than most, and was. Lots of other folks were on that same internet site, and were doing it for fun, if you know what I mean. A minority were on Jeremy's side, pulling for him after his arrest.

So I didn't mean to generalize, and I apologize for that. There are types of people that don't do well in Goth culture (or excel at it, however you look at it), and this guy was one of them.

It's like anything - you can't screen the determined extremists that will take things to heart and action.

cali
07-13-2007, 12:08 AM
there were some letters the girl wrote published in my local paper the other day, the girl was seriously disturbed, and her "teenage hatred" clearly ran much deeper then normal. what bothered me was the girl admitting the she stabbed her bother "only once, and not hard!" and that she also admitted to choking her brother but "only to put him to sleep so he would not hear his parents being murdered downstairs" as if this actually exuses her? she claims that she never meant it seriously, but she was THERE when her family was murdered. she didnt try to stop it, she HELPED. a triple murder is a triple murder, and 12 is old enugh to understand what she is doing.

Marigold2
07-13-2007, 12:12 AM
I am sure there is a lot more to come, this story is more complex and there will be undercurrents here. My question at this point is how did the girl get this way? It will be interesting to see the facts. Perhaps as a society we can learn something from this horrible tragedy.

columbine
07-13-2007, 08:51 PM
I am sure there is a lot more to come, this story is more complex and there will be undercurrents here. My question at this point is how did the girl get this way? It will be interesting to see the facts. Perhaps as a society we can learn something from this horrible tragedy.Well, I can see two possibilities.

1) Mental illness is stigmatized - you don't want your schoolmates knowing you're "cuckoo," and you don't want your neighbors knowing your kid is "cuckoo."

2) Medical care is fast becoming a privilege for the rich. Even if she were herded through a high-speed HMO checkup annually, this kid's illness probably wouldn't show up unless her folks heeded the clues, took the plunge, braved the potential ostracism, and had her evaluated for mental illness (most likely at their own expense, as "Managed Care" doesn't encourage diagnostics that might leave them no contractual recourse but to pay for treatment).

Love, Columbine

Lady's Human
07-13-2007, 09:03 PM
2) Medical care is fast becoming a privilege for the rich.

But this was in Canada. You know, the wonderful national medical system we are theoretically insane if we don't emulate? EVERYONE gets medical care in Canada, Gratis.

columbine
07-13-2007, 10:10 PM
But this was in Canada. You know, the wonderful national medical system we are theoretically insane if we don't emulate? EVERYONE gets medical care in Canada, Gratis.Even mental health? Wow... I know that at least accessible substance detox programs would be really helpful where I live (Boston).

I do acknowledge that some folks would consider even blatant hatred "teen rebellion" and try to punish it out of their kids, though, whether or not medical care was available. (insert oobleck recipe here)

Love, Columbine

Marigold2
07-13-2007, 10:13 PM
There are almost as many possibilites as mental disorders.

1) She could have been molested by her father or close relative.
2) Her parents could be drug users.
3) Her parents could have been drunks.
4) She or her parents could be suffering from depression, obbsessive disorders, multi-personality and the list goes on.

Someone, somewhere failed this girl. Be it the parents, friends, society.
I think it's a little of both. This girl did not go bad in one day. There were signs, there were hurts inflicted and no help came. I have a friend who's daughter was molested by the uncle and mom and dad just couldn't bring themselves to take this girl to therapy. Mom is depressed, dad was ashamed. This poor girl has done so many horrible, unspeakable things. Acting out in pain and confusion. Had she gotten the help she needed her life would be much different now.
Remember this girl is only 12 and at that age adults seem very smart and powerful. If she had a close loving relationship with her parents or another relative this would not have happened. All kids get mad at their parents, lucky most of our kids don't kill us. This isn't a matter of a girl who got mad, this is a matter of pain so deep and so overwelming that she struck out in an equally painful way. No 12 year old dates someone this age unless they cannot relate, respect, confide, in their parent or parents. All of us that have raised girls that age understand how frightened, confused, shy, embrassessed, overwelmed, they are on a daily basis. It is such a time of growth and confusion. One minute they are playing with Barbie's the next they are pushing you away. One minute it's mommy come sit with me and lets watch a movie together and the next hour she is in her room wanting nothing to do with you. Normal behavior but still loving and 12 year olds still come to mom and dad and know we can fix just about anything. At 12 they still sometimes sit on your lap, want tons of hugs and kisses. Request pink cupcakes with lots of sprinkles and ask you to buy them sparkle nail polish. That is normal. Dating a 20 something is not. I believe this girl was hurt by someone, someone she loved and trusted and that trust was so broken that she could no longer go to mom and dad. Did her parents break that trust. Time will tell. The other answer could be deep deep mental illness on her part, if that was the case her parents should have had her in therapy and a restraining order issued for el-creepo.

jackmilliesmom
07-16-2007, 09:12 AM
Hello back at you! Now I ask the question again...WHY is this posted. I don't need to be told the obvious. This is the Dog House. I know that. My question is...while I am sure this is a locally interesting story...do you really think there are people on PetTalk for whom this would be an illustrative story???

Or is it just fun to post?

It's interesting and poses questions for parents to ponder!!!!!!!!! If you do not want to read it don't and don't be such a stick in the mud if they were not meant to be printed then the Moderators KAren and Paul will deal with it OK!

wombat2u2004
07-16-2007, 09:38 AM
It's interesting and poses questions for parents to ponder!!!!!!!!! If you do not want to read it don't and don't be such a stick in the mud if they were not meant to be printed then the Moderators KAren and Paul will deal with it OK!

Ohhhhhh.....Jo....you're so cute when you're angry. :D
Wom

jackmilliesmom
07-16-2007, 10:30 AM
Gee thanks Wom and I was only moderately angry wait till you see me in full flight I am really cute and adorable in a scary fashion.... By the way are the cookies choc chip and can I have as many as I want??????????????????

wombat2u2004
07-16-2007, 10:42 AM
Gee thanks Wom and I was only moderately angry wait till you see me in full flight I am really cute and adorable in a scary fashion.... By the way are the cookies choc chip and can I have as many as I want??????????????????

Yes.....they are choc chip, and yes you can have as many as you want.
Just sign your name on the dotted line of the Standard Dark Side Entry Form carried by my offsider below.
Wom
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/wombat2u2004/aMT_SpaceballsHelmet.gif

jackmilliesmom
07-17-2007, 04:03 AM
Yes.....they are choc chip, and yes you can have as many as you want.
Just sign your name on the dotted line of the Standard Dark Side Entry Form carried by my offsider below.
Wom
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t7/wombat2u2004/aMT_SpaceballsHelmet.gif

Ok in black or blue ink?

wombat2u2004
07-17-2007, 05:16 AM
Ok in black or blue ink?

Black.....it's gotta be dark you know !!!!

sparks19
07-17-2007, 06:00 PM
Excuse me? there are cookies being given out and I was not notified?

Wom.... I thought we were friends :mad:

wombat2u2004
07-17-2007, 09:35 PM
Excuse me? there are cookies being given out and I was not notified?

Wom.... I thought we were friends :mad:

If you want cookies, you have to take a walk on the dark side.
But....hasn't Puck already taken you there ????? Then he should be giving you cookies !!!!! :D
Wom