Something's very wrong

[sumbirdy]

Ok I know what ya'll are going to say-take him to the vet. So I'll start it off by saying this. We used to have a very good vet who would make payment plans with us and sometimes accept us paying him later when we didn't have any money right then. He moved. The vet that took his place is a real jerk and doesn't even treat the animals properly. We are trying to find a new vet but haven't found anyone who would accept late payment. We can't even pay them a little now because we don't have any extra money. I mean none at all. So here's the problem.
Our 2 year old chocolate lab, Cocoa, is really sick. He's only nibbling at his food (he used to gobble it down) and is losing a lot of weight. He drinks a lot more water than he used to and he's salivating like crazy. When you look into his eyes it's like he's not even there and in the past couple of days he has stopped wagging his tail when we say his name or pet him. He just looks at us with those blank eyes. Can anyone help? I'm afraid he's going to die and there's absolutely nothing we can do.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

do you have an equivalent of the PDSA/RSPCA? or a dog welfare officer who would be able to give you the number of a decent vet who isn't motivated by money???

[sumbirdy]

No. :( We have a total of 3 vets here and none of them are that great. The last time we had an emergency my grandmother payed for it but she said she wouldn't do it again (she's not too fond of dogs)

[cloverfdx]

Find a vet, any vet and get your dog there asap :(.

[sumbirdy]

But all of the vets here want money that day...and I think that we have maybe a couple of pennies (I'm not even joking)

[Grace]

Find a vet, any vet and get your dog there asap :(.

What she said - or you could have a dead dog by tonight.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

No decent vet would turn away a sick animal - get yourself down to one and beg for help if you have to!!!

[Vela]

Take your dog to the nearest vet or he WILL die. If you have to, offer to surrender him to the vet, who will find him a home if they can save his life. This is NOT something you can get advice for on a message board, the dog will die if you don't take him in. I'm not trying to be rude, at all, and I understand you don't have any money, but take him in anyway. Just do it and deal with it later. Pawn something, beg your grandmother again, turn him over to the vet, anything, but take him in.

You have 14 dogs...if you cannot care for one who is dying, you need to rethink your situation in general.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Have pm'd you a couple of addresses that might help you out

[JenBKR]

I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I hope you can find a vet that can work with you. I don't know your situation, are your parents around at all? Would they be able to help? I know you mentioned a grandma, maybe you could talk to her again? Any updates?

[Grace]

An update would be nice.

[beeniesmom]

Oh dear... sounds bad.
I hope Cocoa get's the care he needs.

[cloverfdx]

Did you take your poor dog to a vet? i hope the dog is ok.

[lvmypets]

Your dog needs to be seen by a vet and he needs to be seen by one now. you need to take him even it means to give your pet up. I am not beening mean but if you can not afford to take care of a animal than you should not have one. When you have a pet they have to be seen by the vet yearly and they have to have their shots then when they get sick they have to be seen by the vet. I am not been mean I know you seem to be one who loves your dog and one that loves animals but if you can't afford to take care of a pet then you don't need one.

PLEASE GET THAT POOR DOG TO THE VET BEFORE IT DIES. DON'T LET IT SUFFER YOU ARE BEEN CRUEL TO IT.

[JenBKR]

PLEASE GET THAT POOR DOG TO THE VET BEFORE IT DIES. DON'T LET IT SUFFER YOU ARE BEEN CRUEL TO IT.

I'm sorry, but that was uncalled for. What she needs now is advice and help, not to be berated like that :(

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I'm sorry, but that was uncalled for. What she needs now is advice and help, not to be berated like that :(


Exactly! No wonder she hasn't come back with an update :rolleyes:

[sumbirdy]

Mom is going to call a lady who might be able to help us. (praying) Cocoa has actually been up for adoption for about 6-7 months. Nobody seems to want him because he's big, older, doesn't get along with most animals. I do not live by myself, i live with my parents. It is their decision what animals they get and when. (although I did talk my mom out of getting another puppy. Is she crazy?!) We are usually able to take care of our dogs but we do go through rough patches (which is happening right now) I was hoping that you all would understand (and glad that some of you do) I thank you for your suggestions.
We offered to surrender him to all of our vets but none of them would take him.
He's acting like his mouth is hurting and won't let anyone touch it so I'm thinking along these lines:

*tooth decay (or something wrong with his teeth)
*something stuck in his mouth
*something bit him in his mouth (Cocoa is known to eat any kind of insect or bug) This could cause swelling of his throat which could make him unable to swallow well which could cause drooling and him being unable to eat. He might be drinking a lot of water because the cool water feels good on his throat.

These are just guesses from the way he is acting. But so far he is still with us and hopefully will be with us for many more years. Please pray that mom gets in touch with the woman (she was unable to last night) and that she helps us.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Thanks for the update - hope that lady can help little Cocoa

[JenBKR]

Thanks for updating us! Prayers on the way that this lady is able to help.

[Vela]

Well at least you made an effort to get the vet to take the dog to see him, I'm sorry they wouldn't help you at all. I hope that lady is able to help and that he can be seen by someone soon before it's too late. Seems to me it's a sorry excuse for a vet to let an animal suffer over money, when they could set up a payment plan.

[dragondawg]

*tooth decay (or something wrong with his teeth)

Unlikely to cause weight loss and anorexia in a dog only 2 yrs of age.

*something stuck in his mouth

Open the dog's mouth and look for possible tumors- check under the tongue.

*something bit him in his mouth (Cocoa is known to eat any kind of insect or bug) This could cause swelling of his throat which could make him unable to swallow well which could cause drooling and him being unable to eat. He might be drinking a lot of water because the cool water feels good on his throat.

Are you saying the throat is swollen? If so then check the dog for other swellings, as in possible lymph nodes. Again a bee sting would not cause prolonged loss of weight and eating problems.

The chances are the dog has a serious problem either metabolic or possible cancer. If all of the local Vets are uncooperative and friends of the family can not help, then contact the ASPCA or a local animal rescue group. Explain to them the financial situation, and that the dog is suffering- ask for their help in at least getting a diagnosis and some minimal treatment. Some rescue groups will take a dog with a serious medical problem, treat it, and then put it out for adoption.

[Hellow]

I believe that there may be somthing pinching food off somewhere along his digestive tract. You should try and get your pet to the vet as soon as possible! When somthing along the lines that i am describing happens, it could potentionally pinch off somthing else.

[Jakesmom]

1. How long has he had symptoms?
2. Will he eat treats?--meat, whatever is a treat for him?
3. Is he drinking, peeing, and pooping?
4. How do his gums look? (pale, or normal, if you can't tell, compare to another dog)?
5. Is his belly soft? Can you feel any masses? Can you hear bowel sounds? (put your ear to his belly, you should hear an occaissional tinkle, none or lots is not normal).
6. Is his breathing normal?

He really does need labs and possibly X-rays done--the symptoms you describe could be just about anything, including something pretty benign like an infection he picked up from eating trash on the ground to something serious.

If you absolutely cannot get him in for tests, I'd put him on some antibiotics for 10 days or so (like flagyl). Usually won't hurt, might or might not help.

In the meanwhile, make sure he gets enough fluid.

Jakes mom

[Catlady711]

Seems to me it's a sorry excuse for a vet to let an animal suffer over money, when they could set up a payment plan.


I'm not picking on you personally, however I simply HAVE to respond to comments like that.

If you had ever seen the bills for a vet hospital or seen a PILE of files sent to collections for bad checks and non payment people who swore on their child's life they'd be in first thing in the morning with payment, you'd be a little less harsh. I've personally seen several of my very financially conservative employer's bills all of which are sent by companies that expect to be paid NOW not later, not on a payment plan.

If the vet doesn't have the medicines/equipment etc, then they are of little help to people's pets, if the vet can't afford to pay the employee wages he goes out of buisiness helping no one's animals then. If the vet can't pay for the hospital's utilities/rent/taxes then he gets shut down helping no one's animals then. If the vet can't pay for his personal house/car/utilities then he has to find another career that can helping no one's animals. This is not even counting his student loan fee's of many thousands of dollars that must be paid back, or the cost of aquiring the initial start up inventory/equipment (again many thousands of dollars) to be able to be in business in the first place.


I think this site explains it fairly well as a response to the question why vet's cost, what pet owner's percieve as, "so much".

http://www.thepetcenter.com/sur/costspay.html


Also, there are responsible pet owners who ask a perfectly honest and reasonable question, "Why does it cost so much?" Well, I'm going to tell you why.

1. Education: There are only 27 universities in the United States that provide Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (D.V.M.) degrees. They accept only one out of ten qualified applicants. Students may be accepted for the four years of professional veterinary school only after three to four years of pre-veterinary studies. Therefore, there are seven to eight years' minimum of college preparation, studying such topics as biochemistry, physics, comparative anatomy, microbiology, genetics, pharmacology, surgery, etc., etc. No home correspondence courses here! According to the Association of American Veterinary Medical Colleges the costs incurred by a student to achieve a D.V.M. degree in Wisconsin [these are 1990 figures, TJD] is $8,000.00 per year tuition ($11,500.00 if you are from out of state), $4,300.00 per year for room/board, and $1,800.00 for books and supplies. These figures are only school related costs! Not everyone is able or willing to make the educational/financial sacrifice to earn the B.S., D.V.M. degrees. I'm one of the lucky ones!

2. Licensure: After graduation the veterinarian may only practice if a license is obtained through intensive examinations for a particular state. I am licensed to practice in Wisconsin and Florida; I cannot simply move to any state and start a new animal hospital. There are regulations I must follow and minimum requirements of knowledge and expertise I must possess.

3. Business: An animal hospital owner is generally self-employed. For me that means that I am responsible for payback of the loans I took out to establish the business. For example, real estate, hospital equipment, inventory suppliers, employee wages, advertising, insurance, telephone bills, etc., etc., are all my responsibility. Nobody provides me with insurance benefits, paid vacations, retirement funds, bonuses for hard work or pats on the back for maintaining a positive attitude. There are no corporate expense accounts or perks, no government grants or subsidies.


Every small business owner is in business to make a profit, and profit is what's left over AFTER all the expenses (supplies, equipment, rent, wages, etc.) are paid. Then with that profit the self-employed business owner has to take care of personal expenses such as car, house, insurance, food, utilities, etc., just like everyone else. If the self-employed business owner is fortunate, a little profit is left over after all those ordinary expenses for savings or retirement. In general, people do not perceive veterinarians as small business owners, but we really are no different from the shoe store operator, the dentist, the plumber, or carpenter. We get paid for our ability to perform a service.

The choice to obtain a pet presupposes some forethought concerning it's care. Nobody forces or requires you to own a pet. Neither is pet ownership a preconferred right, but rather a responsibility and commitment freely undertaken; and any reasonable person knows pet ownership will require expenses for food, shelter and occasional medical care.

I personally believe it is unfair and illogical to assert that "If you vets truly had humanitarian feelings for pets like you're supposed to, you wouldn't charge so much for 'fixing' them. That's why there are so many unwanted pets. And maybe if you did it for free, all those animals wouldn't be put to sleep in animal shelters."

Sometimes I'll respond to these questions with equally illogical statements of my own like, "Why don't the dentists give away free tooth reconstructions to people who can't afford it; or the shoe store owner give away basketball shoes to kids whose torn shoes affect foot care and posture? Or why doesn't the heating specialist fix that furnace for a bargain price for old folks on a fixed income; or why doesn't the guy who runs the clothing store sell winter coats at cost to people who "just can't afford" warm winter clothes? After all, we're talkin' HUMAN HEALTH here! If these business people had any humanitarian empathy toward their fellow human beings, they wouldn't charge so much for those things!"

Veterinarians, through their understanding of medicine and surgery, are available to assist and promote pet population control. And, like any other service provider, they charge a fee for your use of their knowledge, skill, and time... just like a plumber, cab driver or neurosurgeon.


And another site....
http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/showarticle.cfm?id=397

"A veterinarian is a combination of all doctors: a surgeon, anesthesiologist, radiologist, pharmacist, dermatologist, and the list goes on and on. A veterinary clinic is a 'one-stop shop' where your pet can get it all done. Most services can be provided the same day, without the hassle of scheduling different appointments with a variety of doctors," comments Dr. Merle.

Veterinarians typically spend 8 years in college to earn a doctoral degree, and many study further to specialize. Compared with other professionals with similar educational levels, veterinarians usually earn much less-and they graduate with high student loan debt. Their love of animals does not diminish that they deserve a fair wage for their knowledge and services.

Likewise, a veterinary clinic is a business, and overhead costs have risen with technological advances. X-ray and ultrasound machines are now commonplace at local clinics. Supplies and equipment must be stocked for patients ranging from Chihuahuas to Great Danes. A large staff is required to do everything from animal restraint to treatment to clean up.

"Prices for basic veterinary care have not risen much in the last 30 years, while in human medicine the cost of services has skyrocketed. It is less expensive to treat your dog than your child for the same illness," says Dr. Merle.

And another....

http://www.animalpetsandfriends.com/Article/Veterinary-Bills--One-Simple-Tip-for-Spending-Less/301

Today we’re blessed with many diagnostic tools and procedures that weren’t available years ago. Problem is, all these advancements come with a large price tag. And pet owners are often caught in the middle. They love their pets like family members but sometimes can’t afford to take them to the doctor or pay for life-saving procedures. As a veterinary technician it’s one of the hardest things I have to deal with on a daily basis.

Here we are with all the tools and skills available to help a pet, but the owner simply doesn’t have the funds to pay.

Have you ever taken your car to the shop and said, “Gee I don’t have money to pay for that new transmission. Can I float you a loan?” or gone to the supermarket and said, “Sorry, I don’t have enough money for this cart full of food. Can I pay you later?”

It sounds harsh, but veterinarians have businesses to run just like everybody else. And too many with good intentions and big hearts have gotten burned by offering “credit” or “payment plans” to non-paying clients. The result?

It’s virtually impossible to find a veterinarian willing to offer services today with payment tomorrow.

Let’s face it, quality vet care isn’t cheap. Think about it though—would you want it to be? Because if it was cheap—I’d be worried. Because it would be your pet’s health that had to suffer!



I repeat that I am not picking on you personally, just responding to the comment in general regardless of whom had said it.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I repeat that I am not picking on you personally, just responding to the comment in general regardless of whom had said it.

I think you will find that should be "regardless of who said it" not "whom" :D

You made some valid points

[Freedom]

I'm not sure I remember your Cocoa, sorry. If he is a pure breed, maybe breed rescue can assist you.

Is there an SPCA in your area? Or an Animal Rescue League?

I know you said there are 3 vets in your area. What about traveling a bit further, just to help the dog? Start by calling, no need to be driving all over the place.

Is Care Credit an option? Can you find a vet that accepts their payment plans?

Just trying to generate some ideas here. Prayers for you and Cocoa!

[Catlady711]

I think you will find that should be "regardless of who said it" not "whom" :D


I was trying to decide whether to use who or whom, guess I picked the wrong one. lol :p

[Vela]

I was trying to decide whether to use who or whom, guess I picked the wrong one. lol :p


While I agree with your above long post, about the costs, etc., and I do understand it, and already understood it, I still think there is room for SOME provisions to be made. Doctors for people have those same types of bills, yet I know that in certain cases, when there is suffering going on, they do take payments. I also understand people who promise the moon and don't deliver, so I also understand that too. But they could work something out, but some flatly refuse to even try. There are many many vets who will, especially if an animal is suffering. They all have the same costs, yet some are willing to help and some aren't, it just depends on the vet.

[tikeyas_mom]

But all of the vets here want money that day...and I think that we have maybe a couple of pennies (I'm not even joking)

When is your next payday? Hopfully he will be okay till then :(
Sending prayers your way.

[Catlady711]

While I agree with your above long post, about the costs, etc., and I do understand it, and already understood it, I still think there is room for SOME provisions to be made. Doctors for people have those same types of bills, yet I know that in certain cases, when there is suffering going on, they do take payments. I also understand people who promise the moon and don't deliver, so I also understand that too. But they could work something out, but some flatly refuse to even try. There are many many vets who will, especially if an animal is suffering. They all have the same costs, yet some are willing to help and some aren't, it just depends on the vet.


I don't know about all vets, but my boss does give some occasional discounts and leeway with payments, but ONLY for regular clients and ONLY if they have a history of paying in full and taking reasonable care of their animals in the past to at least show they've been trying.

About 2 years ago about 5 minutes to closing time, a group of people rush in with a dog from a nearby agility competition that had severe heat stroke, the owners had kept the dog in a homeade plywood kennel in the 90 degree sun. The dog looked DOA but was breathing, barely. Apparently some of the people were the owners, one was a licensed vet from a far away hospital, and one was a vet tech. They burst in demanding to use our surgery room (we did allow them and promptly called the boss to let him know what was going on). Per the boss's request we got names and addresses on both the owners and the vet. Unfortunately the dog didn't make it and died on the table. The vet wrote down all the supplies they'd used in the attempt. We later billed the traveling vet (per her own request) and twice received back that she nor her hospital would pay as they said the owners were responsible. We attempted billing the owners but found the address as 'undeliverable' and the phone number non working. So in the end we invouluntarily ate a bill of almost $200, and that was just cost of supplies as the traveling vet had donated her own time.

If a vet were to do things like that on a regular basis it either causes fees to go up to cover the expenses (which means that less people can afford to come in) or the business would eventually go under. Neither option is preferable. And just because the every person doesn't recieve a discount or leeway in payments does NOT mean that NO ONE there does. There are just simply too many people with animals that are suffering who cry poverty to possibly help all of them.

[lvmypets]

Look sorry for those that thought i was being mean. I wasn't coming across that way. I hope that you was able to get your dog to the vet and she is doing fine. Please give an up date and let us all know how she is doing. I have two dogs of my own. I lost one due to cancer she fought it for amost two years. she was 16 years old. I just don't like seening a dog suffer. Again if any of you thought i was being mean to this owner I am sorry.

[mypetsmom]

You really need to get him to the vet. But, if you have tried EVERYTHING to get him the proper medical attention and are not successful, lets look at a few things and hopefully narrow it down.

OK, I'm not a vet and I am NOT an expert...but there are a few things that I have learned from my vet over the years. He has actually taken the time to teach me what to look for and how to treat a few illnesses without a vet visit.

Tell me more about the symptoms. How long ago did you first notice any "change in behavior"? Has he pooped? If so, check his stools to see if there is any blood in them or if they are darker then usual. This is very important. Also, do they look slimy or does there appear to be any mucus in them? Dogs sometime eat toys or items they find. They can swallow pieces that they chew off or brake off and if they have a sharp edge or a point, they can puncture the internal organs. LOOK AT EVERYTHING THE DOG COULD HAVE CHEWED ON TO SEE IF THIS IF THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. If this is the case, the item could be blocking the dogs bowels and/or it could be lodged in the stomach or intestines and you MUST GET HIM TO A VET before it kills him.

Next, how much water is he drinking, how much food is he eating? What foods will he eat? Does he hang out near the food and water dish? Does he get up and move from one spot to another? How often? Does he just lay around, does he moan, does he lift his head when you approach him or pet him?

Next, this is sooooo important!!! Do not let him dehydrate! Dehydration is usually a "secondary problem" that comes as a result of an illness, disease or injury. Lift up on the skin at the back of the neck. If it goes back in to place quickly, then he is not dehydrated...yet! If the skins falls back in to place more slowly then you must get some Pedialite or Gator Aid down him right away. Go to a farm and ranch supply and buy a syringe (no needle) 35 cc size should be easy to work with. If you don't have a farm and ranch supply near you, go to the groceries store or a pet store and buy one out of the Bird Supply section. They have them available for hand feeding baby birds. Fill it with Pedialite, Gator Aid (mild flavor, nothing too strong) or water. Slowly drizzle it in the back of the cheek (between the cheek and teeth. DON'T PUT IT DOWN HIS THROUGHT. Give him 15 or 20 cc as often as you can (at least 2 or 3 time the first few hours) without making him vomit. You can give him more once you know he isn't vomiting it up. This will be a long process because he will resist...don't give in to him...GET THE FLUIDS DOWN HIM. If he dehydrates and you don't get the fluids down him, his body will start shutting down...be diligent!

If the dog is vomiting...give him 1 or 2 table spoons of Pepto-Bismal. He may vomit it up too. Wait a little while to let his stomach settles then try giving just a little fluid. After a few more minutes try the Pepto again.

If you find blood or mucus in his stools, you don't have a choice...GET HIM TO THE VET!!!!! That is a sign of internal bleeding...that can be caused by several things (paro-virus, poisoning, worms, punctures, etc...) but if left untreated it could cost him his life.

I am very uncomfortable giving you this information because without much experience, you could easily overlook, or misread the symptoms and treatments I have listed. Please understand that I am only listing these "basics" to try to help. But, PLEASE DON'T FOLLOW THIS IF YOU ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE INFORMATION HERE. This is all information my vet taught me because he knew that I was very experienced with dogs and that I could determine when a real medical emergency was at hand. Without seeing your dog, without knowing his demeanor and the changes he is displaying, I still recommend that he sees a Vet ASAP. His life probably depend on it!

Please keep us posted...I wish the best for him.

[jennielynn1970]

Has there been any update on this poor dog's condition?? I saw the last post was 5/23. Was wondering if they PMd anyone with news. Feel so bad for the whole party involved. :(

[sumbirdy]

I haven't been able to get on here for a while-sorry. We were still unable to get him to the vet-mom could never contact the lady But Cocoa is doing MUCH better. He is eating and picking up the weight-although he is still skinny. Thank you for your prayers.