Thinking Of Selling Daisy [Archive]

timlewis

03-17-2007, 06:45 AM

Some of you all know me and Daisy, but some dont so ill tell you all my situation. I have a Boxer which i know and knew when i got her would be a hyper dog, but all dogs that i have been around including boxers are controlable. I also have a 5 yr old boy and a 2 yr old girl which are my life. Now I live in a small town in the country and have a nice sized yard, so I have always kept Daisy outside. And i know some of u dont think any dog should be kept outside but to me its kinda like having gas, there are more room outside than in,lol. But really i had my yard fixed where she couldnt get around front because she would tear up all the christmas decorations and i had a lot of money in them because my kids love them. Anyway now its getting warm and i had a kennell built 40 ft x 10 ft, she was climbing out i put a top on it, she was getting under it, i got tent stakes and staked it down. She still got under it so i put a runner in that wouldnt let her reach far enough to get out, she will only come out one side. She got out of her collar, i bought a harness now she is getting out of it, i really dont know what else to do. There arent any trainers or any thing like that around here and i hardly have time to train her and dont really know how, i work 3rd shift. i work 11 to 7 starting sunday nights through friday night except tuesday and thursday i work 7 to 7. Now you may wonder the problem, my kids cant get out and play because she is so very very hyper she is 8 months old and outways them bouth already. Everyone says she will calm down but i dont see it happening in the near future, so my brother in law will give me $600 for her and he has a male boxer, and probably more time. So does anyone have any ideas that will help me because i have tried all i know to do and buying her and having a kennell built and all the other things i have done i probably have $1200+ in her and really dont wont to spend much more. But i HATE the thought of not having her here. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/timlewis/100_0560.jpg

Pam

03-17-2007, 06:57 AM

Tim I remember you and Daisy and your precious children. I know there are others here that might say "why did you get her, etc., etc.?" but that is not the issue now. I do believe that, given the situation that you describe, it might be the best thing if she was re-homed with your brother-in-law if you think he would properly care for her. That way you would still be able to see her so it would be the best of both worlds. :)

Should you decide to adopt in the future, I would suggest looking at shelters and selecting a pup that is older and known to be good with children. So many of those *puppy issues* are just not issues with older dogs and you would be making a world of difference in that dog's life. :)

Kfamr

03-17-2007, 06:57 AM

Suggestions?

Train her. She is only a young puppy. You said you knew when you got her that Boxers are hyper dogs. You know why the dogs you've been around were managable? Because their owners trained them.

She needs to be an inside dog to learn the pack rules. Outside dogs have a difficult time understanding that. Keeping her outside, and reducing her size of yard, is just going to make it worse. She needs to run, she needs to play with other dogs, and most of all she needs to be with her pack - your family, to learn the important behavior aspects in life.

Keeping her outside is your #1 problem.
Bring her inside, crate train her (for when you are gone, ONLY,) and allow her to learn the rules of a pack.
I can assure you that there are many of us here with experience with puppies that can help you. Heck, we can even learn together because I've got a 6 month old here myself.

Selling her just sounds ridiculous. Who cares about money when it comes to this?

timlewis

03-17-2007, 07:04 AM

Some of you may think this is mean but she will never be allowed in the house for good. And no their not trained their just not this hyper i have actually never been around a trained dog never. And again about the inside as i said i have 2 small kids and she is to hyper and although she doesnt mean to she scares them and that doesnt help. When they run she chases if they dont she knocks them down and i can work with her some but not like i would like to. But i do appreciate the thought.

Pam

03-17-2007, 07:06 AM

Suggestions?

Train her. She is only a young puppy.

Tim has said ". There arent any trainers or any thing like that around here and i hardly have time to train her and dont really know how, i work 3rd shift."

That is why I responded as I did. I agree with Kay in that dogs don't belong outside. They need human contact and will never learn how to behave around people if their time with them is limited. I hope whatever dog you choose next time will be an inside dog and maybe even get to sleep in the Big Bed with their humans like most of our PT dogs. :)

timlewis

03-17-2007, 07:12 AM

I understand and respect that most of you do like dogs inside but although you may think its mean Daisy nor will any other dog ever live inside my house. And although it may seem mean to some that is just the way it is and not to sound mean but i dont need any help with my future choices just this one.

Kfamr

03-17-2007, 07:22 AM

I read the entire post. 2-3 times, so I know what he said. But, training is the only reasonable decision in my opinion and many of us can help him with that.

If you're never going to allow your dogs inside, good luck, because I imagine you're going to have a lot of "hard decisions" just like this one in the future.

-Sigh- Good luck I suppose because it doesn't seem you're here to actually listen to our suggestions and you're set in your decision.

Hope your brother-in-law takes the time for her. Also, you may want to speak with her breeder. Often time selling a dog is against the contract. Most breeders prefer the dog is returned before rehoming.

luvofallhorses

03-17-2007, 07:23 AM

*sigh* :(

cloverfdx

03-17-2007, 07:24 AM

:( If you are not willing to put the time into training, exercise etc then you would be best to rehome... i am only saying this for the sake of the dog. Maybe think it out a bit more before bringing another innocent life in to your yard.

timlewis

03-17-2007, 07:32 AM

Im sorry if i sounded like i wasnt listening to your suggestions. But im pretty aggrovated because i really dont want to let her go and the reason she cant come in is because of my 2 kids. I would care less if not for that and if i knew how to train her i would and as far as a not being able to train a dog outside i dont agree. And i do appreciate your suggestions.

buttercup132

03-17-2007, 07:33 AM

:rolleyes:
She's a Boxer obviously she is going to be really hyper shes also a puppy. You asked for suggestions but seem to be making excuses for why they all wont work. I hope she goes to a home where they love her and actually have time for her.

dukedogsmom

03-17-2007, 07:43 AM

In my opinion, you have no business even having a dog. You should have thought about your "two small children" and taken that into huge consideration before even getting a dog. If you want a good dog, then you must be willing to do the things needed to obtain that goal. Dogs are very personalable animals and don't deserve to stay outside and get the crumbs of attention you decide to give them when you feel like it. To them, that's punishment. Dogs are living, breathing creatures, not some piece of property you can dispose of when you see fit. And for goodness sake, find a good home for her and forget selling her. If you really cared for her, money would be the last thing on your mind.

Pam

03-17-2007, 07:56 AM

I read the entire post. 2-3 times, so I know what he said.

I wasn't saying that you didn't. I was only explaining why I responded the way I did (i.e., didn't suggest training). *sigh*

luvofallhorses

03-17-2007, 08:11 AM

Ginger's Mom

03-17-2007, 08:17 AM

Glad to hear that you are thinking of rehoming Daisy. May I strongly suggest that you do not do it yourself, but contact a Boxer rescue (there seems to be one not far from you in Tennessee). They will be better able to determine what is best for Daisy. If what you really want is what is best for Daisy and your family that is the best way to go. Your brother -in-law probably isn't a good idea either since from what you say Daisy needs training and you have indicated that he doesn't train his dogs. Sounds like a failure before it even begins. Hope Daisy does well in her new home, she is a cutie.

Kfamr

03-17-2007, 08:19 AM

I wasn't saying that you didn't. I was only explaining why I responded the way I did (i.e., didn't suggest training). *sigh*

I just wasn't sure why you quoted me with a quote from him - as if I was wrong to suggest training. But, I understand now, although I see nothing wrong with your original post. We're all going to have differing opinions on the subject, obviously.

Why the sigh? :confused:

Again, Tim, I strongly suggest you speak with her breeder. I'm not sure what type of breeder she came from, however, a responsible breeder will take back dogs and require that you return them if needed to rehome.

dukedogsmom

03-17-2007, 08:23 AM

I have a feeling our suggestions weren't what he wanted to hear. I'm afraid her brother in law will breed her since he's got a male. You know, it's funny how people come here for advice and then don't even listen. Someone else recently did the same thing.

Cincy'sMom

03-17-2007, 08:38 AM

I have a feeling our suggestions weren't what he wanted to hear. I'm afraid her brother in law will breed her since he's got a male.

Val, That was my exact first thought. Why else would he pay $600 for her, unless he could "recoup" the cost?

I am trying to be understanding about the situation. I understand there are situations where dogs need to be rehomed, and I do think this is one of them, becuase it will be best for the dog. But I also think it should be handled by either the breeder or a boxer rescue. Maybe I am jumping to conclusions and the BIL only has the best of intentions. If that is the case, then I am wrong and I apoligize. I would just hate to see her sold as a brood bitch.

As for no dogs now or ever in the house becuase of the kids? I just don't get that. Where would some of our PT children be with our their best buds? But that is a whole nother topic.

finn's mom

03-17-2007, 08:54 AM

Rehoming her sounds like the best idea. But, I'm confused. You said you would never have an inside dog. Which is fine, I know a few people who feel that way. It's a lifestyle and a mentality that I find outdated, but to each his own. As long as the dog is able to be with people A LOT and is given proper shelter and food, it's better than a lot of situations where the dog is kept inside and ignored. Still not the best in my opinion, but again, to each his own. Daisy doesn't sound neglected, just completely misunderstood. And, in the wrong hands. I would suggest going through a rescue organization, though, as has already been mentioned.

Back to my confusion. You stated you would never have an inside dog. But, then you stated a couple posts later that Daisy isn't allowed inside because of your children. And, I'm assuming that's because she's too large and too rambunctious. Which makes sense, although it's something that should have been considered prior to choosing a large, active breed. Hind sight is 20/20, of course. :) If you're never going to have a dog inside, that's one thing. I wouldn't take $5000 for a dog I thought was going to spend the rest of his life outside of the house. Had you not said "But im pretty aggrovated because i really dont want to let her go and the reason she cant come in is because of my 2 kids", I would not be confused. If it's just because of the children, why would you not consider getting a smaller, more manageable dog next time? Or just wait til your children are older? They're not always going to be small and able to be run over by a playful puppy.

As for outside dogs being untrainable, I didn't read the comment suggesting that I guess, but maybe they just meant that it was *more difficult* to train a dog that lives it's life outside? My opinion on that is that it is not necessarily harder to train a dog to sit and stay outside, but it is more difficult for a dog to understand it's place in the pack when it's rare that it's even part of the pack. Does that make any sense? You do add a level of difficulty to the training when a dog is never really let in, though, I will agree with that.

I do hope you rehome her. I also hope you go through a rescue organization. Good luck!

chocolatepuppy

03-17-2007, 09:05 AM

a quote from Tim a while back...

TO B HONEST ONE OF THE REASONS I BOUGHT HER IS BECAUSE I WORK 3rd SHIFT IN THE COAL MINES, AND FOR SOME REASON PEOPLE R SCARED TO DEATH OF BOXERS AROUND HERE ANYWAY.

I'd suggest rehoming her. Then instead of ever getting another dog, install an alarm system and buy a gun (careful with the kids) and your family will be safe when you are at work. You could have done that with the money you 'wasted' on Daisy. My heart goes out to Daisy. :(

DrKym

03-17-2007, 09:42 AM

4 Dog Mother

03-17-2007, 10:56 AM

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid195/p8621b9bbfaafad8514237ed46146c589/f15456a9.jpg

See that little girl in the midst of all the dogs. That is my granddaughter Jasmine when she was about 20 months old. See the dogs - 5 are mine, 3 are hers and 3 are Amy's and one is my boss's. Dogs and little kids - taught properly they will get along fine. Included in that mix, is a Jack Rusell, 3 Dalmation mixes and a Great Dane. All can be a little hyper and yes, she has taken a fall once or twice but she loves each and every one of them - and I think each of them love her. Now she has a little brother and he too is being brought up as part of the group.

Jasmine lived with us for about 6months starting when she was 14 months old. At that time we had 6 dogs. Her dalmation, great dane and terrier mix made nine. When she heard them running down the hall, she turned toward a wall, grabbed ahold of whatever she could and let them run by her. I can't imagine what her life would be like without living with dogs!

coco-bean

03-17-2007, 11:14 AM

http://www.ckbr.org/

http://www.bluegrassboxerrescue.org/

http://adopt-a-boxer.1-800-save-a-pet.com/

Here are a few links to help this animal, I won't even go into my personal feelings on this matter, as to do so would make your ears melt. I will say that is people like you that have a throw away dissasociative attitude towards companion animals, that make it possible for me to blessed with fostering and rehoming and getting to know so many animals that are much more amazing and smart than the owners that had them. So I guess I should thank you.

As for your kids and dogs in the house, I had kids, and rotties , and as all babies do the pups got knocked over and the babies did too. Everyone survived amongst laughter and tears for the boo boos. Too bad that you cannot find the same love for your dog, that she has has for you.

Hopefully, you will put aside your wallet and make the decisions that are best for the animal, at least once in this saga.

Just my thoughts

Im affraid Tim may take this the wrong way...BUT...i couldnt agree more with you! I understand what the dog was bought for, to protect, which im sure if given the chance she could protect with the best confidence...if she knew she was needed!
You said she wasnt allowed in the front yard where burgalars or theifs may wonder by...well with her locked in the back yard on a chain or in a inclosure, she really isnt doing her job very well. A dog for protection really needs to protect their own...inside! so they can check on ur kids, check on ur wife and be able to protect them in their time of need. A backyard really isnt protecting anyone! Just protecting your kids from coming in contact with her.
I personally dont care when my dogs push over a child...kids fall, they get cuts and bruises and they learn from them(hopefully) and move on. It's not life or death if they get knocked over unless onto a sharp object or something.
It's just control and training. I really dont think daisy could be anymore useless in the situation she is in with you. Im sorry Tim, but she isnt doing what you bought her to do, and she isnt getting the attention that she needs, so i would first go to the breeder, then def. give her to a boxer rescue.
Im also affraid your brother in law will just breed her.
Sorry if thats rude but i feel it to be the truth!

elizabethann

03-17-2007, 11:16 AM

I'd rehome her. I think she'd be happier with your BIL.

Tim, do you have another dog? I thought you had a terrier of some sort. Or am I thinking of somebody else?

Good luck.

elizabethann

03-17-2007, 11:18 AM

Im also affraid your brother in law will just breed her.
Sorry if thats rude but i feel it to be the truth!

Whoa Tim, if she's not fixed, I would bring her to a Boxer Rescue organization. Forget the BIL.

cali

03-17-2007, 11:23 AM

I suggest rehoming her, and never getting another dog. Boxers are extremly hyper, they need a LOT of exersize and a LOT of training, I dont know how you can justify saying your dog is to hyper so you stuck her in a smaller kennel, and she is still to darn hyper..??? that just makes absolutly zero sence to me, obviously she is going to be getting out she's bored, she needs mental and physical stimulation. I dont suggest selling her to you brother in law as it sounds liike he intends to breed her. I suggest sending her to a boxer rescue. it seems to me the onl reason you really want a dog is to know you have one there so I siggest you head to the nearest toy store, buy one of those life sized dog stuffies, stick it in the kennel, wala you will have the assurence that you have a dog, it wont need attention, training or human interaction, and it wont jump on your kids.

lizbud

03-17-2007, 11:28 AM

Well, I don't see why you posted about this at all. What do you want from
us here at PT? Do you wanted to be reassured you are doing the right thing?
I really would like to know what we can do, other than the advice already
given re: training, making Daisy a real part of the family from the very start
would have solved many of the problems you are now having with her.

Like I said, you have your own opinions about the proper way to raise a
dog, and now are living with the consequences of your choices. What do
you want to hear from any of us?

If you do rehome Daisy, please, please contact a Boxer Rescue group. They
are full of people who know & love the breed.

caseysmom

03-17-2007, 11:49 AM

Tim, not sure you really want advice but having 2 kids here's mine.

The choices you make toward your animals will shape your childrens perception on what is right and what is wrong. Treating your dog with respect and what is in her best interest will be a valuable lesson to your children. I truly believe that children that are taught to respect animals and treat them as part of the family grow up to be better humans.

Just my 2 cents.

coco-bean

03-17-2007, 11:55 AM

Roxyluvsme13

03-17-2007, 12:00 PM

IRescue452

03-17-2007, 12:08 PM

Bring her to a rescue where she will be spayed before rehoming. Its better to find her a new home now than wait until she's older and less desirable. Besides, spending its life in a little fenced in patch of land is not the kind of life you should wish on any dog.

coco-bean

03-17-2007, 12:12 PM

I, myself who has an outside dog as my mother refers to her, understand the outside dog situation, but if you had two small kids and you adopted a hyper breed like the Boxer, you should have known that it could be a risk to the kids.

I too have an "outside dog" at my dads house, merely because my dad says "No livestock in the house", "they belong outside so they can run and be free". but my dad also doesnt believe in caging so my doggie runs free, and personally i wouldnt have it any other way...FOR HER! she's old, doesnt like to be inside, during the winter if she is put in the garage at night, she will bark and bark and bark until the garage door is lifted so she can go in and out as she pleases. But she also comes home because she knows where her family is.
She was given attention outside so i do understand some of it, but what i do not understand is...if you have a dog that is outside, how do you know when its sick? or is hurt? or if no one has paid any attention to it, how do you know if theres a lump? You just DONT, and thats what also makes me very angry.
I know when my dogs are sick and dont feel well, i know how their skin feels...and i also know when each of them need to poop or pee, because im with them all the time, their my children and i dont see how people can treat their pets so terribly. Even if they feel it isnt bad, they dont know about their dog like those of us who have indoor pets.
very confusing to me!

Roxyluvsme13

03-17-2007, 12:16 PM

My outside dog is allowed inside when the weather is severe, or sometimes I just bring her in because I want to. My mom doesn't object, she just doesn't want her inside full time. Anyways, that's getting off subject..

shais_mom

03-17-2007, 12:37 PM

I thought the he got her for all the wrong reasons. I grew up with the mentality of no animals in the house but now that I'm on my own - I am passionately the OPPOSITE of that. That said my parents do allow my sister's dog and my dog in the house. Being well trained AND well loved makes a HUGE difference.
I notice he hasn't posted recently so I suspect that he is "put off" that we didn't agree with him and probably won't be back. I hope he finds a good home for Daisy via the boxer rescue and NOT with his brother in law where she would be a bitch for a back yard breeder or a puppy mill.
I understand that he has put a lot of HARD EARNED money into her - I am not disputing that. I think he works in the coal mines so I'm sure that $1000+ is alot to pay for anything. But while I don't work in the coal mines - I work hard for my hard earned money too (I work therefore it is hard earned) and I couldn't even BEGIN to imagine how much money I have in all 3 of these animals that are plopped right in front of me and one on each side of me right now. But I don't look at them and see dollar signs like apparently he does.
But the comment she will never come into my house b/c of my kids is a outdated and over used - My dog is 100000% better behaved than my sister's kids- I'm sure Tim's kids are well behaved maybe my sister just has heathens.
I have a lot more to say but along the lines of quoting Dr. Goodnow - his ears might melt off. And he isn't going to listen to us anyway b/c I am sure he has made up his mind - and I think he's made it clear the almighty dollar is worth more to him than teaching his kids about kindness to animal, responsibility, and the fact that pets aren't disposable. I'd be surprised if he comes back to read this anyway. I am really surprised he posted here anyway b/c he knew what kind of response he got when he posted about docking her ears.

applesmom

03-17-2007, 12:39 PM

Why is your brother-in-law willing to pay six hundred dollars for an untrained, ill mannered, destructive, escape artist? :confused:

Sure go ahead and sell her to him. After you've had her spayed. At least she'd have the experience of socialization with another dog before she's dumped again. :(

From what you've indicated it's not likely that there is an ethical breeder involved that would be willing to take her back and rehome her. If you care anything for the dog at all, contact a Boxer rescue and give her the chance she deserves to find a forever home where she will be loved and appreciated.

If given the opportunity; at only eight months of age she should be extremely trainable and will no doubt make someone a wonderful pet.

The sooner she is removed from her current situation--the better her chances will be!

shais_mom

03-17-2007, 12:41 PM

And i know some of u dont think any dog should be kept outside but to me its kinda like having gas, there are more room outside than in,lol.
Like I said above - I think he knew exactly what response he was going to get and to the fact that he attributes owning a dog that is STUCK outside in all kinds of weather vs having gas shows how much he values the responsibility of owning an animal.
I really hope he learns from this and never gets another animal.

dukedogsmom

03-17-2007, 12:45 PM

As I said earlier, I can't believe the people that come here for advice and then get all angry when it's not what they wanted to hear. Why ask if you don't have any intention of even listening? He'll probably have lots more dogs and he'll be teaching his children that pets are disposable. Very sad.

bckrazy

03-17-2007, 12:57 PM

I'm not judging you as a person... but it seems like the "same old" story to me. I don't have time, she's way crazier than any other dog I've met, there are no trainers, etc. It doesn't even sound like a trainer is necessary. If you got a few good training books, and dedicated your spare time to exercising her, training her, and acclimating her to being gentle with children and being quiet in the house, you WILL almost certaintly have a well-behaved dog. NO dog learns manners on their own, while sitting in a backyard alone. It's NOT second nature for them to be well-behaved, calm, and obedient. That has to be taught, and honestly it isn't rocket science.

There are reasons that a dog relentlessly tries to escape. In Daisy's case, she is escaping out of sheer boredom & lack of exercising/training. Imagine if you had to sit in a pen 24/7. You would go a little crazy and make escape attempts, too. If you want to keep her, I recommend giving her 1 hour of active off-leash exercise a day, as many walks as you possibly can, 15-30 minutes of training, and spending as much time with her (outside presumably) as possible. You should also provide her with stimulating toys (Kongs, treat balls, chews, etc) while she's alone, so she has something to occupy her time with. Dogs do not want to be alone, even if that means they're sleeping in a crate in your room. They WILL keep on escaping through anything you set up, to look for you. As far as not being in the house because of the kids... my sister has 2 girls, ages 1 & 4. My dogs are AWESOME with them, and all of them get along wonderfully. My dogs are also great with my 5 year-old little brother, they all hang out in the house together and the dogs nor the kids have ever hurt or scared each other. It's about supervision, and teaching manners (to the dogs and the kids).

If that doesn't seem *worth it* to you, find her a home that DOES have plenty of time to train her & will allow her inside with the family.

shais_mom

03-17-2007, 01:16 PM

Roxyluvsme13

03-17-2007, 01:18 PM

On the training thing.. you may have a busy schedule, but if a 14 year old (me) can house train and teach a dog manners, I think you could, too.

shais_mom

03-17-2007, 01:21 PM

On the training thing.. you may have a busy schedule, but if a 14 year old (me) can house train and teach a dog manners, I think you could, too.
very good point Bri - but I think he's using it as a cop out -
b/c he said "I just don't think I have time I work 3rd shift."
I raised a GOLDEN RETRIEVER who was JUST as hyper as a boxer if not more at times BY MYSELF - living alone and working all 3 shifts on an erratic basis. Patience, tears, and a CRATE training her as a puppy and 5 years later she is almost the perfect dog. (tho she does have her moments just like a kid)

Roxyluvsme13

03-17-2007, 01:24 PM

I think he just wants to throw poor Daisy away. She's not fit for his standards anymore, so time to get a new replacement. :(

shais_mom

03-17-2007, 01:31 PM

Roxyluvsme13

03-17-2007, 01:46 PM

Zippy

03-17-2007, 01:47 PM

*sigh*
Why did you come to PT? You known what we were going to say.
No dog should be bought for protection only.Poor Daisy another innocent suffering because you needed protection and should have gotten a security system.

shais_mom

03-17-2007, 01:52 PM

:eek:

Roxy's only half Boxer, but she's still reaaaaalllly hyper. When she first comes inside she goes into the living room and runs around the coffee table.. and when I say her name, she runs cuz she thinks I'm playing :p.
and please don't think I'm calling boxers dumb or stupid. I know they aren't. I LOVE boxers myself. They just need proper training and supervision. :D
my sister's dog is part LAB part SPRINGER but we swear when God was passing out the brains he must have been off chasing his tail or something. :confused: But other then not being the brightest bulb in the bunch - he's a GOOD dog and adores my sister's boys.

sasvermont

03-17-2007, 03:01 PM

Tim, I would rehome the dog for sure. If you wanted a security system, and ended up thinking the dog would do the job, then you were probably "barking up the wrong tree". This pupster deserves a loving inside home, with lots of training and exercise. You should have spent your dough on a security alarm system.

We have all made mistakes in life and I can think back to my decision to get a Bengal cat that was close to $1000 dollars, only to find out that it clashed with my one cat. The Bengal was rehomed, to a wonderful home out of state, for free. I owed it to the kitty to find just the perfect home. I think you owe it to Daisy. A real home, not just to recoop your money. You made the wrong decision, not Daisy.

Have a little heart and let this pupster go to an organization that handles Boxers and finds them good homes.

A lesson learned?

SAS

Twisterdog

03-17-2007, 03:03 PM

Tim,

Yes, please, rehome this dog. As soon as possible. You are absolutely right ... you are not the right home for this dog. If you PM me, I will make the arrangements with a boxer rescue for you, and they will come pick the dog up. I only need your permission.

That is the very best thing you could do for this dog ... let her go to people who know, love and understand the breed. They are very devoted to the breed, and probably have a waiting list of pre-approved homes. Please do the right thing, you became responsible for this innocent life when you bought her. Please do what's best for her now, without regard to money.

And PLEASE think very long and hard before getting another dog at this stage in your and your children's lives.

Lori Jordan

03-17-2007, 03:29 PM

This upsets me,My thinking is when you get an animal,You are with that animal until they pass.

Hyper,I have a 100 pound Newf that runs through my home,And have small children all the time,But it is almost like she knows when it comes to children.

You say Daisy is Hyper,Well whether not there is training classes,You look and find one!

You would not think a Newfoundland would need obedience Training,But every Newf Breeder will tell you "THEY NEED TRAING"

I am so mad right now i could spit,This little Girl does not deserve this,And Frankly you do not deserve her,She is Beautiful.Please take others advice,And get her to a rescue.

This way she will be rehomed with someone who will lover her like she should be.

Best Of Luck Daisy!!!

Sevaede

03-17-2007, 05:54 PM

I agree that rehoming Daisy would be in her interest.

Keeping your children and your pup seperated aren't going to do anything about their "fears" (so to speak?), though.

Cinder & Smoke

03-17-2007, 06:10 PM

Time Out, Gang! :p

Dunno if any one's noticed ... but Mr. Lewis hasn't squeezed a word in here since 8:32 AM - Saturday Morning.

We might have misplaced the Audience. :eek:

Maybe take a few DEEP Breaths or a chill pill; and let him slip a word or two in here.

/s/ Phred

buttercup132

03-17-2007, 06:14 PM

He got the dog for protection. She obviously isn't doing her job because she has no family to protect. Everyone on PT's dogs would protect them cause they are all loved and have a family a REAL family. And since he has no time to train her to protect like a actual guard dog she just isn't doing what he bought her for. I'm not saying he is for sure but I agree it obviously sounds like she is going to be bred.:( Please dont ever get another dog in your life and lets hope your kids grow up and have a better understanding of dogs and dont make the same mistake you have..

timlewis

03-17-2007, 06:41 PM

Vela

03-17-2007, 06:48 PM

yup
I've NEVER been around a boxer that was quiet and sedate and calm. NEVER. Unless it didn't feel good. My friend was talking about her dog the other nite and she said the only reason her 3 year old boxer/lab mix was so smart was b/c of the boxer. And I cackled I laughed so hard. I said what are you smoking? There are way more guide dogs that are retrievers-labs than boxers. While they are smart and can be trained to do anything I would never say that they were soooo smart. My aunt and uncle used to raise boxers (ok as much as I love them they WERE BYB) and they had indoor manners the whole nine yards. One day they left the dogs (2) out to do as dogs do and run the farm and when my uncle went out to the barn they had KILLED a 600 pound steer and were attempting to bring down the other one. :eek: That was the end of those dogs and the end of boxers at their house.

Well, I realize you weren't calling them all stupid, just giving evidence that they aren't all spazzes LOL. I have two, and am about to have three come tomorrow morning, but my male boxer is one of the smartest dogs I have ever met. He also is very quiet and sedate in stores like Home Depot and Petco. He is pretty quiet around the house to, but if I say let's go play or let's go outside he turns into a different dog, SO happy to play and run and jump. He is 4 and I have trained him from 8 weeks old. Many are "crazy" because poeple don't spend proper time with them, like you said, to socialize and teach them manners. He can open doors in the house, he can carry on a conversation, he actually even tries to say words. I have watched him intentionally reason out how to trick Ginger out of something she has and carry it out to perfection. That's not to say they are all brilliant, but like any breed, there are some that are indeed highly intelligent, and some who are like my beloved Ginger, who are all heart and not a lot of brains LOL. Just wanted to shed some light on the other side of the coin, as I am very close to the breed myself.

I can't say much about Tim and the Daisy situation except I saw it coming, I feel absolutely horrible for that dog, she deserves so much more. Her behavior is entirely his and the family's fault, as a boxer is not a breed that can tolerate that type of lifestyle. I would not say any dog deserves it, but many can tolerate it much better than boxers. They have a desprate need to be with their people, it's even in the breed description. If you truly love this dog, spay her before you sell or give her to your BIL. She is not breed standard to be having puppies and being used as a brood bitch is a crappy life for a dog!

lizbud

03-17-2007, 06:48 PM

Any time someone starts out with "it's not the money", believe me, it IS
the money, period.Bye Tim, hope you have a good life & I do hope Daisy
has a better one. :)

coco-bean

03-17-2007, 06:51 PM

As far as not being here it was surely not because of what any of u said i have been sleeping. I dont need the money i make plenty of money in the coal mines, im sorry but to me a dog is still just a dog. i will miss Daisy very much if i do decide to sell her to my b i l. As far as her not getting attention you dont really know that she does get attention she isnt in a small cage 24\7. i get her out and take her on walks and play with her and i do love her, and as far as my kids they are way more important than any dog. the only way i would let her go is to my brother in law because i know he will take good care of her as he does his and if he wants to breed her that will be up to him. But honestly i could care less about the $600 i am getting for her that doesnt matter to me, but he will be the only person to get her i can tell u that. The reason i posted this is to see if any of you knew a way i could train her with what limited time i have, and its not a cop out its just the way it is.

Tim i am very sorry for ever sticking up for you! I am also deeply sorry for your dog! this is utterly ridiculous, aparently you join PT because you loved her, and all your showing now is discusting to me.
Why on earth would you purposely add to the millions of dogs that are in shelters every year when its SIMPLE to spend a few more bucks on her to fix it. You aparently dont care for her like you say you do otherwise you would never give her to someone who you know prospectively would breed her.
Im sorry if i get yelled at for this or banned or whatever, but you make a sorry excuse for a dog owner, and i deeply feel you make a sorry excuse for a human as well!
Because of people like you gives the rest of us a harder time to do things with our pets or move places with them ect,
if you have so much damn time to walk her, im pretty sure you can find time to train her.
You discust me!
(again i really dont care how much trouble i get in from anyone here when i say these things)

BC_MoM

03-17-2007, 06:58 PM

i get her out and take her on walks and play with her and i do love her

Ok, so, you walk her, you play with her and you love her.... Training has to fit in somewhere. What would another 15 minutes out of your day to do some basic training hurt????

chocolatepuppy

03-17-2007, 07:19 PM

im sorry but to me a dog is still just a dog
if he wants to breed her that will be up to him.

poor Daisy :( :( :(

maerlyn

03-17-2007, 07:38 PM

What, exactly, will you "miss" about her? You're not giving her attention; you're insistent that neither she nor any other dog will live in your home. Then why even have a dog??? Dogs and cats kept as companions (as opposed to working dogs) should be members of the *family*. That means living with the family, interacting with the family on a regular basis. What pleasure does Daisy get from you? That poor child is a living, sentient being - not a "thing" to buy and then "get rid of" when it no longer serves your purpose! And what for what purpose do you wish to own a dog - just to say you have one? You banish the poor soul to the yard and then wonder why she wants to get out & run away. I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said that you don't deserve to own a dog - or any other companion animal. Where was your concern for your "two precious children" when you *bought* poor Daisy? I feel so sorry for her, it breaks my heart. Furthermore, the example you are setting for those children is abominable! You are teaching them that dogs are "things", like toys, to be put aside until you deign to bestow some of your largesse upon them. We do not *need* any more people with attitudes like that!! Do the responsibile thing and see that poorl, pathetic Daisy goes to a reputable rescue; they'll have her spayed and see that she goes to a *deserving* home.

animal_rescue

03-17-2007, 07:44 PM

All I'm going to say is I think the dog is better off in a rescue...

luvofallhorses

03-17-2007, 07:55 PM

All I'm going to say is I think the dog is better off in a rescue...

same here. poor Daisy. :(

PJ's Mom

03-17-2007, 08:29 PM

m sorry but to me a dog is still just a dog.

Just a dog???? There's the problem

I knew when I saw the title of this thread it was a mistake coming in here.

Guess you got the attention you wanted. Get Daisy to a rescue and it would probably be a good idea if you never got a dog again. You don't deserve to own one.

tikeyas_mom

03-17-2007, 08:42 PM

I certanly hope that Daisy finds a forever homes that will keep her indoors as apart of a family, and give her the love devotion and care that all dogs need..

Honestly The only was I cant see a 6 month old puppy (of any breed) protecting anyone.. And it only aggrivates me to know that people buy these dogs to harm people.. (feel bad for that mailman ;))
My dogs were NEVER trained to harm a human, but I'm sure if I was in danger one of them if not all would step up and protect me because I took the times to make a pack mantality with them.. I love them, and they love me in return.

dukedogsmom

03-17-2007, 09:14 PM

As far as not being here it was surely not because of what any of u said i have been sleeping. I dont need the money i make plenty of money in the coal mines, im sorry but to me a dog is still just a dog. i will miss Daisy very much if i do decide to sell her to my b i l. As far as her not getting attention you dont really know that she does get attention she isnt in a small cage 24\7. i get her out and take her on walks and play with her and i do love her, and as far as my kids they are way more important than any dog. the only way i would let her go is to my brother in law because i know he will take good care of her as he does his and if he wants to breed her that will be up to him. But honestly i could care less about the $600 i am getting for her that doesnt matter to me, but he will be the only person to get her i can tell u that. The reason i posted this is to see if any of you knew a way i could train her with what limited time i have, and its not a cop out its just the way it is.
Well, if she goes to your brother in law, I'd be willing to bet money that he'll breed her. Real nice life to give a dog. And if you think "dogs are just dogs" then do the poor dogs (or any animal, for that matter) a HUGE favor and don't ever get any more animals. If your kids are so important to you, why did you even get a dog in the first place? You're teaching your kids that animals are disposable, like pieces of property, and they aren't. How about teaching your kids about love and responsibility? And if you want protection, be a man and go about it yourself. Honestly, I don't even know why you came back if you don't want to listen to us. Poor dog. I really feel badly for her. She doesn't deserve what you've done to her or her doomed future.

cloverfdx

03-17-2007, 09:42 PM

Tim thankyou for most likely adding to the already huge animal over population... good work.

Goodluck Daisy :(.

Daisy and Delilah

03-17-2007, 09:58 PM

I realize I'm coming in at the tail end of this discussion but I feel like I need to put in my two cents also.

As hard as it may seem, I think I know where Tim is coming from. Please understand that even though this feels like de ja vu to me, I do not condone any of his thoughts or practices of dog ownership.

Many years ago, I lived in Virginia in "coal mining country". I was married with two young children. My husband(now ex husband) and his entire family worked in the coal mines. Let me point out, I'm not stereotyping coal miners either. It's just a coincidence that that was also their profession. The universal mentality was that dogs stayed outside, they needed very little training, all the dogs in the yard had a "job", and if they weren't able to do their jobs, they needed to be, for the lack of a better term; disposed of. If you could find a better home, for whatever the reason or purpose, that was your first option. If you could get back some of the cash you had invested, that would be an even better deal. If not, whatever. If another home was unavailable, that dog would just be ..........(fill in the blank).

As I recall, Tim got this dog to protect his family. We all remember the ear cropping style that was chosen so Daisy could look "meaner" and scare away unwanted visitors. Daisy has required more training than Tim has time to do and he would be the only person designated to train Daisy. I'm thinking that training Daisy would be a job done by only the man of the house.

It has turned out that Daisy didn't "automatically" measure up as she should have so she needs to go. Tim is probably aggravated with the situation because now he has an unsuitable dog on his property and his family still needs protection. After the time and expense, Tim and his family are back to square one. What is he going to do now?

Tim, I don't mean this to be disrespectful to you at all. I can just see the people on this board, reading this saga in complete disbelief. Most of us don't think like this and that's why so many people are having such a hard time understanding your rationale in this situation. Please understand, Tim, that you're not of the same school that the people on this board are. You and Pet Talk are almost 100% on two completely different pages.

I am not surprised this happened at all. What does surprise me is that you would come back and ask advice from the members of this board after all you've already been through here. Surely, you know you don't think like the pet owners here. I can't imagine why you came here asking for advice again when you knew what would happen.

I hope you are able to rehome that beautiful girl of your's and she's able to live a happy life. Hopefully, she is spayed right away and not turned into a breeding machine. So she didn't work out for you, Tim. Maybe she can become a wonderful pet for some loving family. She deserves a better life than what she's had so far. :( :( :(

Vela

03-17-2007, 10:11 PM

Very good post. While I understand that not everyone wants to spend 100 dollars on a dog waterer and another 200 on a dog bed just like theirs, I also cannot understand why someone would seem to be uncaring about the future of the animal they took in. It seems uncaring because he said he didn't care about whether she was bred or not and that makes me sad.

I wish Daisy the best of luck in a good life, she deserves it. It is not her fault she doesn't "measure up". She wasn't trained, is not allowed to be with her "pack", and has no choice in the matter. Having owned this breed, it hurts my heart to see her.

I don't doubt Tim cares for her in his own way, but I cannot fathom feeling that way about my dog, and I just wish I hadn't had to see it, even though it's not unexpected.

wolfsoul

03-17-2007, 10:34 PM

Some people see dogs as "just dogs." It is an old-fashioned outlook but to each his own. You can't tell someone to feel something that he simply does not. Maybe the BIL's home is not the ideal situation but perhaps it will be better than this one. See the glass as half full. The way I look at it these days, people will keep or rehome dogs as they please...Visa was rehomed with me and I couldn't have been happier. Sometimes it works out for the best.

I'm sorry you didn't get the security system you were hoping for. With so much time spent at work, perhaps a dog is not an ideal pet for you. It would be much cheaper and less time consuming and stressful if you just went with a regular security system -- extra locks, automatic lights, alarm (maybe one of those dog bark alarms that goes off when someone is at the door), etc. Unfortunatly dogs are very give and take with their uses. They don't do what you want without expecting something in return. For a high energy breed such as a boxer, alot of training and exercise is a must. An outside dog needs twice as much training and exercise as one that lives indoors and recieves all sorts of stimulation.

SunsetRose

03-17-2007, 10:38 PM

Oh boy, I don't think people realize how upsetting it is for me to see these kind of posts. I apologize in advance for my bluntness, but these situations really get to me.

Tim, take that poor dog to a rescue! Don't sell her to your brother in law, take her streight to a rescue. If you care about her so much, then you will be able to turn down $600 to make sure she ends up in a home that has been specially screened to make sure that the family that adopts her can care for her forever. And if you absolutely must sell her to your brother in law, spay her first.

I really don't understand why you got her. You knew boxers needed alot of work and you also knew you didn't have the time. And do you honestly think that a dog that is kept isolated to the backyard with no training, not nearly enough interaction and stimulation and no exercise is going to protect your family!? Your doing the bare minimum for her, treating her like she's nothing more than a dog or an animal to have, why should she do anything for you? If you keep this dog, she'll probably end up aggressive and you won't even be able to trust her with your children none the less expect her to protect them.

Alysser

03-17-2007, 10:42 PM

Tim, I thought you and Daisy were happy togather, I really thought you were the perfect owner for her, I loved seeing pictures of her. But now this whole thread just disgusts me. If you get a dog, you are responsible for everything it needs, and that includes training. Your excuse has to be the stupidest one I've seen yet. Your only getting rid of her because you don't know how to train her? Can't you get a book online or something. There are plenty out there. If you knew she was going to be hyper with small children, why did you get her? She is such a beautiful dog, and she doesn't deserve this. I really hope you rehome her, for her sake.

I have trained my own dog, and as Briana said if a 14 year old can train one, so can you. You just have to be patient.

As a dog owner, you need to make the right decisions for your dog, and giving her to your brother-in-law to breed is just the opposite. PLEASE, put her in a rescue. I have no clue who your brother-in-law is, but if he's inexpeirenced with breeding, then Daisy could possibly loose her life. She is much better off just being a dog with someone who won't breed her, she'll have no stress. I am fully for the rescue choice, but overall she is your dog and I have no say in what you do with her. I just hope her life turns out oka in the end. :(

coco-bean

03-17-2007, 10:44 PM

if you HONESTLY think giving her to your BIL, spay her! Your getting your money back from her anyways, so you can take that $600 and invest it in some good animal respect classes!

dab_20

03-18-2007, 01:57 AM

I know this reply is a bit late, and I'm basically repeating what others have said.

Please take Daisy to a rescue, or at least spay her before you give her to your BIL! Spaying her or giving her to the rescue may be the best thing that you'll ever do for Daisy. You are an example for you kids... do you want them to think that an animal is just something to throw away because it's convienent for you? That is one of the most important lessons in life... to respect creatures. They are living and breathing and they DO have feelings. If you just sell Daisy without even caring if she's bred or not, your kids will learn that dogs are just objects and can be 'sold' at free will. Obviously, your kids will not learn to respect animals from you, so I hope they learn this from someone else.
As for Daisy, how can you not care what happens to a dog that you supposedly 'love'? This is absolutely heartbreaking.. I feel awful for Daisy. She loves you with all her heart, even though she's been somewhat neglected and you don't seem to care for her. This is really saddening.. I wish Daisy the best of luck to wherever she goes. She deserves a loving home, with a family who deeply cares for her.

timlewis

03-18-2007, 02:05 AM

For some reason you all dont understand that just because she is outside doesnt mean she is being neglected. I was hoping someone could tell me an easy way to train her to quit jumping on and running over my kids, so i could train her in what limited time i have. Someone said 15 to 20 mins a day how can u train a dog in that amount of time? But anyway despite what you may think of me I will do what is best for Daisy as i see fit. And if i cant get her to quit running over my kids then it WILL be selling her to my BIL. Now if you can tell me how to train her in 15 to 20 mins a day i may try that if not thank you all for your opinions.

BC_MoM

03-18-2007, 02:30 AM

You can't train her completely in 15 minutes. What I said was that it doesn't sound like you do anything for her, mentally. Those 15 minutes a day will make a big difference if you put in an effort.

I hope you get her spayed before you sell her.

I feel so bad for Daisy....... :(:(

For some reason you all dont understand that just because she is outside doesnt mean she is being neglected. I was hoping someone could tell me an easy way to train her to quit jumping on and running over my kids, so i could train her in what limited time i have. Someone said 15 to 20 mins a day how can u train a dog in that amount of time? But anyway despite what you may think of me I will do what is best for Daisy as i see fit. And if i cant get her to quit running over my kids then it WILL be selling her to my BIL. Now if you can tell me how to train her in 15 to 20 mins a day i may try that if not thank you all for your opinions.

timlewis

03-18-2007, 02:32 AM

And I Didnt Say 15 Minutes. I Said 15 Minutes A Day!

Whisk_Luva

03-18-2007, 04:26 AM

Do you really think complaining at Tim is going to do any good? He only has Daisy at heart I am sure!
Come on let him make the decision. It not mine or yours to decide, Its Tims. If Tim thinks Daisy will be better with his brother in law then so be it! We cant stop him. And to put a thread up and take this long to decide shows he loves Daisy. Otherwise he would have gotten rid of her by now. I think its
best he makes the decision himself!

Shouting at him isnt going to help!

Yes poor Daisy, but he came for advise not for everyon to shout at him. Shes kept outside, SO WHAT? It doesnt mean shes neglated! Why wont anyone understand that? Most people wont have seen Daisy or where shes living so who can say she neglated?

Well Tim, Make the decision which will make Daisy Happy. I think you know your dog and people on this chat don't.

shais_mom

03-18-2007, 04:45 AM

And if you think "dogs are just dogs" then do the poor dogs

I know this is beating a dead horse but this reminds me of the commercial where the woman is looking for the perfect purple color and her husband says its "just" a pillow (or whatever) and she looks at him and he says "well your JUST a man" and he says "oh boy".
:p
seriously Tim - most training sessions are supposed to be short anyway b/c the dog only has the mentality of a 2 year old.
Racking brain here - but I know when my dog (100 pound Golden) gets around kids or even small dogs I say "GENTLE" or "EASY" some might think its b/c she is going to eat them but it is b/c I don't want her to get excited and knock them over/down.
If you have internet access then you have the world at your finger tips on dog training. Did you try GOOGLING dog training articles
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dog+training+articles
there I just did it for you - and if you would have taken the time to do THAT when you posted HERE you probably would have a lot less headache and hard feelings toward us. :(
And I'm with everyone else that if you DO sell her to your brother in law - PLEASE spay her first - altho I wonder if he would even want her then. :( Do not add more to the over population of unwanted animals.
Please.
I do respect the different mentalities of different states and regions of interest. Where I live there are people with just as different views on dog/pet responsibilites just like other places. It may be just as foreign to those areas to allow the dog/pet in the house as it is to US to NOT allow it in the house.
I respect the differing mentalities but I don't agree with it - and that's fine.

Pam

03-18-2007, 06:25 AM

Now if you can tell me how to train her in 15 to 20 mins a day i may try that if not thank you all for your opinions.

Tim, I haven't read this thread through since I commented early on but I am sure it has gotten heated. I just now looked for a post from you to see what your thoughts have been through all of this and was encouraged by what you said above.

I took Bella through obedience school and also the two dogs I owned before them. The instructor showed us the things we needed to do and told us to just work with them 15-20 minutes a day until the next session a week later. At the next session we were given more *homework* to do with the dogs, and more the week after that, etc., etc. Without exception every dog in every class improved. We had a golden in the class that was just like Daisy, very high spirited and with a mind of her own. By the end of the class (10 weeks later) she was a different dog. :)

I can't go into detail here with how to train a dog and I am sure you don't have an obedience school close by if you live in a very rural area. Do you live near a PetsMart? They have classes. If that is not an option, just buy a book. There are many good ones out there and lots of people here could probably point out some good ones that have worked for them. I am encouraged that you are saying you will give Daisy 15-20 minutes a day. It is a start! :)

coco-bean

03-18-2007, 09:05 AM

i really think alot of us (def. including me) got heated was how he worded his thread with daisy involved, of course we all want whats better for daisy and i really hope tim means it when he says he does too. But i sure as holy hell hope he realizes the BEST for daisy is def. not being a LONG time breeding machine. Dogs are like people in some ways...we get worn out. Sure im not big on kids and sure, i dont have any...but i do know that the body wears down...giving birth is hard for a human...think of that times however many puppies she has...PER LITER!! If you really want whats best for Daisy...at least spay her before anything! Alot of times spaying/neutering WILL calm them down some...some it works, some it doesn!
15 minutes a day would be perfect for daisy, the reason why she is climbing the fence or digging under it is because she's bored...if your back yard is fenched, throw the ball for 10 minutes...that'll have her start realizing she CAN start to trust you and you are her human!
while on you "so called walk" maybe go an extra 2 or 3 blocks...or take one of your kids and have them hold the leash so they realize she isnt just a hyper dog...help them hold the leash she she doesnt run away with them.
OR even jog a little with her...you NEED to wear her out...you'll soon realize that when the dog is worn out she will calm down and be more apt. to stay put in the cage.
I highly recommend fetch..if she likes it...my dogs will do it for hours if i let them...and when we get home...they are utterly exhausted!
On another note: Yes tim we jumped on you...me especially...it was all in the wording of your thread, it really made you sound like a real pr*ck! you may or may not be, your the one who knows who you really are, but im sure your better than this! if you want to do whats so best for your daisy, the least you can do is do a little research on your BIL or breeding and talk to your vet.
Or who knows maybe you even baught her with breeding in mind. Which also makes sense to me since you still havent gotten her spayed and she's 8 months old already.
I really dont know Tim, i just want you to be responsible with her, when you bought her you took on the responsibilty of her, including keeping her safe!
sending her off to be a forever mom insnt necessarily safe for her!
Just think about it, we'll be here to help you, but the one thing i've learned about PT is you HAVE TO WORD THINGS RIGHT! otherwise the ppl. here will tear you apart!
i've learned to watch my wording and go with it that way!
I would at least like to know what happeneds to poor daisy!
thanks for your time!

trayi52

03-18-2007, 09:19 AM

I guess the thing that upset me is what you said about her being "just a dog". None of my pets are just a dog, just a cat, or just a monkey!

Willie

sasvermont

03-18-2007, 09:23 AM

Need I say more? :rolleyes: :mad:

buttercup132

03-18-2007, 09:38 AM

You CAN train her for 15/20 minutes each day. It will take her a little longer to grasp it but since Boxers are smart breeds I'm sure she would have no problem.

I dont even know wether or not to offer help. Your obviously not going to give her to rescue. So whats better for Daisy , a home where she is kept outside with little attention. Or the home where she would possibly be taken better care of but turned into a breeding machine?

finn's mom

03-18-2007, 11:02 AM

I don't really have a problem with people who see their dogs or other pets as "just a dog" or "just a cat" or whatever. I don't have a problem with anyone who takes care of their dog's needs but has them as an outside dog. And when I say "dog's needs", I meen food, shelter, water, medical care, and the ability to be with their pack. A dog doesn't need to be with their pack 24/7, though. Just like kids don't need to be surrounded by family 24/7. I can't begin to know how much time you and your family spend with Daisy, Tim. I hope it's enough time.

With that being said, I am "one of those people" who treats my animals better than most. My dog is a dog, but he is a member of my family. He is not a child, but he is most assuredly a family member. But, I understand and am ok with people who do not feel that way. As long as an animal has their needs met, I'm all right with people not letting them in the house.

Now. What bothers me is that you would get a dog like a boxer and think that it wouldn't be a playful, energetic hyper dog. People shop all over the darn place for the right couch and research the best deals on airfare to save money, but they will just choose a dog not knowing the first thing about the breed, just because "it's cute", or "I had one as a kid", or, in your case, "people around here are afraid of boxers". There absolutely has to be more thought put into bringing a living creature into your home, especially one who could possibly be in your care for upwards of twenty years. If a dog running through your house and knocking your children over was a problem, maybe an already trained adult boxer would have been a better option. I know it's obviously not something you can do anything about with Daisy. But, maybe consider it if you do decide to get another dog.

Karen

03-18-2007, 12:24 PM

Tim, would your wife be able to help with training when you are away from home? That would speed things up considerably, to have it reinforced, what is her daily schedule like?

Daisy is still a puppy, so constant reinforcement of good behavior is the best. If you do 15 minutes a day of basics - leash training first - as in NOT pulling when she's on a leash, , then come, sit, down, and "off" - whever she jumps up, step back and make her keep her four paws on the ground - all good skills for her to know - sit, down, and off being particularly important for an exhuberant breed like a Boxer.

If you work on these things, even just 15 minutes a day, and then your wife do it as well, Daisy should pick up on things quickly. That said, she is still a puppy, and will be exhuberant for years to come, being a Boxer. If you need to rehome her, our prayers will follow with her.

K9soul

03-18-2007, 12:27 PM

Tim-

This is a site that has links with a lot of useful information, how to do some basic training, and dealing with various behavioral issues.

http://www.dogpatch.org/obed/obpage2.cfm

Of course there is a wealth of information online. You can simply go to google.com and type in "dog training" and come up with all kinds of information. I'd suggest if she doesn't already know it to train sit first. Sit is a good command to get the dog quiet and under control and focused on you. You must use rewards, such as treats or a favorite toy or at the very least praise and attention, to make her want to work and learn. Take her out on a leash, have her sit, let her learn she gets attention when sitting and being good. But also she needs to be able to run and expend energy. If she can run off some energy before training sessions she will be a lot easier to work with. If you work with her every single day, consistently, even for just 15 to 20 minutes, she most definitely will improve as well as be a happier dog. Also if you spay her she may settle more and be easier to handle as well, plus it reduces her risk of certain cancers and health issues.

If she goes into heat she may very well attract aggressive wandering males who could be of danger to your family. Please consider it for the safety of all.

Here is a very basic guide on teaching sit. http://www.ehow.com/how_65_train-dog-sit.html

Good luck.

Rachel

03-18-2007, 03:09 PM

We have all made mistakes in life and I can think back to my decision to get a Bengal cat that was close to $1000 dollars, only to find out that it clashed with my one cat. The Bengal was rehomed, to a wonderful home out of state, for free. I owed it to the kitty to find just the perfect home. I think you owe it to Daisy. A real home, not just to recoop your money. You made the wrong decision, not Daisy.

Have a little heart and let this pupster go to an organization that handles Boxers and finds them good homes.

A lesson learned?

SAS

I'm quoting this because I feel it gets to the most important point to be dealt with now. If you are still reading, Tim, I implore you to take this to heart. There are good people here. I've made some mistakes in the past which haunt me to this day. Let the people here be a barometer for what to do now. Over and over this suggestion has been made. I'm not going to quibble over the choices you've made in the past, it's too late for that to make any difference. What you do here on out can make a huge difference for Daisy. Please give this idea the consideration it deserves.

dukedogsmom

03-18-2007, 03:13 PM

I agree, Rachael, but I truly think his mind was made up as he was writing the first entry :(

elizabethann

03-18-2007, 06:23 PM

Tim, may I suggest you look into getting training for Daisy? Do you have a PetSmart or some kind of kennel where y'all live? I think it would be great if you make it a family training course. Bring the wife & kids. Kids need to learn how to behave around/with dogs. Luckily, in NH there is training facility that has a class that is just for kids & dogs - no parents. Perhaps you can find something like that?

Fenway is going to be 4 this year and I'm still training him. He knows the basics, sit, down, off, down. But I'm still reinforcing these things with him each & every day. He's not a rocket scientist. But I love him dearly. Sometimes I'll say "sit" and he looks at me like I'm rock.

I really hope you can get proper training for Daisy. And may I suggest you get her fixed? I think she may be more calmer if you get her fixed. But maybe more people on this board who have dogs that aren't fixed will know about their temperment...fixed or not fixed. I always understood a fixed dog was more calmer. But I could be wrong.

As far as running the kids over, Daisy is still just a puppy. She's going to rambunctious (spelling??). Boxers have a ton of energy. I've yet to hear of a kid getting seriously hurt or dying from a dog running them over. Kids bounce.

Good luck.

SunsetRose

03-18-2007, 06:51 PM

This is really not making sense to me.....If you apparantly have 15 minutes a day to work with her, why have you waited until now to do it? Even if you work with her for 15 minutes a day, that isn't nearly enough. She is out there 24/7, 15 minutes of your time trying to teach her to stop jumping or to sit every day isn't going to do any good. Unless you are able to dedicate over an hour to exercising her and training her EVERY DAY, then you will not have a dog that you would be willing to allow around your children.

To be honest, I have never seen a well behaved dog that is kept only outside that has good social skills and good manners. And you are neglecting your dog by keeping her outside, I don't care how you try to justify it, you still are. Dogs are social creatures, you don't understand just how much you are keeping from her by isolating her outside. She will always lack the ability to read your body language and your moods and emotions to a T, she will always lack that special bond with people that would make her easier to manage, easier to train and more pleasant to be around. When your dog is inside, there are so many opportunities to train her and work with her. I can have a dog inside my house and it ends up totally obedience trained in a week and I don't even have to set aside any amount of time or give official lessons.....It just happens because the opportunites are presented to me throughout the day and I take advantage of them.

Are you totally helpless to where you can't go to petsmart and sign up for training lessons and buy a few books while your there? Seriously, I started training dogs when I was 13, never attended a lesson, never even picked up a book and I managed just fine.

I don't know what you are coming here for other than to complain about how terrible and "misbehaved" daisy is when it's completely your fault! Quit relying on other people to help you and quit waiting for problems to just fix themselves. The only way you are going to be able to resolve this is if you make it happen and learn to help yourself. You started a thread in the behavior section about how to stop daisy from pulling and you have been given alot of great advice, have you done anything with it yet? And there's this thing called a search, where you can find another topic by a person who has a jumping dog and those same methods that are posted will help you too.

Kfamr

03-18-2007, 07:09 PM

15-20 is fine for daily training. It is best to make training sessions short so that dogs don't get bored. However, if that is all you spend with her daily that is NOT enough.

Daisy needs some rules. She needs pack rules. She needs to understand that your kids are humans (right now I'm sure she sees them as screaming, running toys!) The NILIF, Nothing In Life Is Free, method of training should help quite a bit. It's very easy (for us) and anyone can train their animal using this. Daisy needs to know her basics - sit, down, lay down, stay, come, etc. Google it.

I never said anything about outside dogs not being able to be trained. HOWEVER, it is very difficult to teach a dog not to jump on toddlers, not to chase them, etc. if they are stuck outside their whole lives and never around the kids.

What do you need to know about training? I said in my very first post that people here (well, I can speak for myself) would be willing to help you train her and answer questions you may have. However, when suggestion training you spoke as if it was absolutely impossible to train.

It's not. It's incredibly easy to train a dog especially if you get to know your dog.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE contact Daisy's breeder. AS I said, I'm not sure what type of breeder she came from but you can be in a legal mess if you decide to sell her and it was in the contract for her to be returned.

wolfsoul

03-18-2007, 08:05 PM

I have contacted who I believe to be Daisy's breeder, and hopefully she can step in and help out.

coco-bean

03-18-2007, 08:19 PM

I have contacted who I believe to be Daisy's breeder, and hopefully she can step in and help out.
Thank you, i was hoping there was a REAL breeder behind that pup!

timlewis

03-19-2007, 07:49 AM

First Thank You all for your advice, But i dont need anyone contacting anyone im grown and can do that myself. I will give the training a try, and ill let you know how it goes.

pitc9

03-19-2007, 09:31 AM

Tim, I don't know if this question has been asked yet, but is your brother in law's boxer neutered?

Lobodeb

03-19-2007, 10:32 AM

Thank you for being willing to try the training, Tim.

I'll be the first to admit that Maggy is far from trained. She knows a few tricks, but I hardly call that training. The main difference is that when she gets out of hand, I simply pick her up and move her. I don't see you doing that with a boxer, though.

While she's inside, maybe you can keep her on a leash or one of those no jump harnesses so she can learn not to jump on your kids? Even when you're not actually training her. It sounds like she could use some house manners.

Hopefully that'll help. Just remember, she's still a puppy. She'll probably be this way for at least another year. Having said that, you're also at a great time to train her.

Good luck. Although you may not be on the same page as other PTers i.e., "just a dog," I really do feel you care for Daisy. She just needs a lot of guidance. I hope you can and are able to give it to her.

cmayer31

03-19-2007, 11:03 AM

Hi Tim,

I've typed a few replies, but have deleted them all because I think the other members of PT have touched on most of the points I had written. Anyhow, I really hope that providing Daisy with the mental and physical stimulation of training will help with some of her issues. Dogs are pack animals and need to be with their pack and learn the pack rules as set forth by you and others in her pack. Boxers are intelligent and active dogs they need a lot of physical and mental stimulation and sometimes walks are not enough to satisfy those needs. You can mix training with playing such as playing fetch and teaching her to drop the ball when she brings it back.

If you'd like I think I have an extra copy of Puppies for Dummies that I can mail to you. Here's a description of the book:

A book you will love and every puppy will need! From housetraining to proper puppy socialization, it's all here in this fun and friendly guide to the toughest and most delightful era in your dog's life: puppyhood. With a focus on behavior and relationship, Sarah Hodgson helps your puppy grow up to be a healthy, playful, well-mannered dog.
Discover how to:

choose the perfect puppy for you
raise a well-mannered, happy puppy
housetrain your puppy quickly and effectively
provide proper puppy care and nutrition
keep peace between kids and puppies

I might have some other training media that I can scrounge up as well. That said, it might be worth it to really look hard for a trainer to assist you in person. Maybe a neighbor or local resident has experience training their own dogs and can offer some one on one advice and work with Daisy while you’re there. I can read and understand just about any manual or diagram, but until I do it hands on for the first time I will never really comprehend it beyond the basics, so for me a hands on trainer was very valuable.

Pawsitive Thinking

03-19-2007, 11:10 AM

I sort of get where you are coming from - the children have to come first but poor Daisy. She only wants to be part of the pack....I do hope that you think very, very hard if you ever consider getting another dog. They are hard work, take a lot of time and commitment but I guess you are finding that out now..........

I hope you find her a home where she can thrive

crow_noir

03-20-2007, 09:45 PM

I do have to agree with many of the posts here... but I've been thinking. Rather than criticizing Tim we should be thanking him for realizing that there is a problem and caring enough to be concerned. Many people in my old neighborhood would have just given up on the dog and that is that. Those dogs usually have less than bad endings.

Tim, it is my opinion that if you truly love this dog you will find it a new home that will give it plenty of exercise. Do what is best for the dog. Don't be afraid to ask an adoption fee.

Some of you all know me and Daisy, but some dont so ill tell you all my situation. I have a Boxer which i know and knew when i got her would be a hyper dog, but all dogs that i have been around including boxers are controlable. I also have a 5 yr old boy and a 2 yr old girl which are my life. Now I live in a small town in the country and have a nice sized yard, so I have always kept Daisy outside. And i know some of u dont think any dog should be kept outside but to me its kinda like having gas, there are more room outside than in,lol. But really i had my yard fixed where she couldnt get around front because she would tear up all the christmas decorations and i had a lot of money in them because my kids love them. Anyway now its getting warm and i had a kennell built 40 ft x 10 ft, she was climbing out i put a top on it, she was getting under it, i got tent stakes and staked it down. She still got under it so i put a runner in that wouldnt let her reach far enough to get out, she will only come out one side. She got out of her collar, i bought a harness now she is getting out of it, i really dont know what else to do. There arent any trainers or any thing like that around here and i hardly have time to train her and dont really know how, i work 3rd shift. i work 11 to 7 starting sunday nights through friday night except tuesday and thursday i work 7 to 7. Now you may wonder the problem, my kids cant get out and play because she is so very very hyper she is 8 months old and outways them bouth already. Everyone says she will calm down but i dont see it happening in the near future, so my brother in law will give me $600 for her and he has a male boxer, and probably more time. So does anyone have any ideas that will help me because i have tried all i know to do and buying her and having a kennell built and all the other things i have done i probably have $1200+ in her and really dont wont to spend much more. But i HATE the thought of not having her here. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

pitc9

03-21-2007, 07:37 AM

Well, since my question never got answered (if his brother in law's boxer is neutered)
I'll just say this:

I pray for Daisy's life, I pray she does not end up being a puppy machine for some money hungry selfish person.
She needs to be spayed before you give her to anyone.
PLEASE don't add to the number of unwatned/unplanned pet that are put to sleep every year because there is not enough room for them all.
Please Tim.... please do the right and responsible thing and have her spayed.

sumbirdy

03-21-2007, 11:54 AM

...if you have a dog that is outside, how do you know when its sick? or is hurt? or if no one has paid any attention to it, how do you know if theres a lump? You just DONT, and thats what also makes me very angry.
I know when my dogs are sick and dont feel well, i know how their skin feels...and i also know when each of them need to poop or pee, because im with them all the time, their my children and i dont see how people can treat their pets so terribly. Even if they feel it isnt bad, they dont know about their dog like those of us who have indoor pets.
very confusing to me!

I have 11 outside dogs and I know when they are sick or hurt. I run my hands over them every day. You can tell if their sick by the change of their personality. I don't consider having your dog outside "treating it terribly" Shouldn't we give our animals a choice, just as people have choices? I gave my dogs a choice, stay in or stay out. Most chose out. Dogs love to be outside. They love to be around people, yes, but some people are outside people. People think they'll die from getting to hot or cold. I have NEVER had a dog die from heat (they shed in the summer) or from cold (their hair grows thicker in the winter) but I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. If you take care of your dogs, give them love, attention, shelter then they can thrive outside, sometimes they do better than inside dogs. But this is just my opinion. Before anyone goes judging about whether someone keeps their dogs in or out they should look at their lifestyle, where they live, ect. first.

Vela

03-21-2007, 12:22 PM

Boxers are never meant to be outside dogs. Their hair coat does not grow thicker in the winter, nor thinner in the summer. It stays the same all year round, very sparse on the underbelly and legs, etc. Anywhere you read about boxers says they should not be kept outside. Many dogs can be kept outside physically (not saying I prefer that for myself, I don't) but some dogs cannot tolerate the extremes of heat and/or cold. They also cannot live outside in the hot summer because brachycephalic dogs overheat much more easily.

You are correct in saying that many dogs can life outside, as long as they are provided for, even if it's not ideal, but some breeds just cannot do so as well as others and those considerations should be taken into account when buying any breed. "What is it's intended purpose, can it fulfill that purpose and the way in which you plan to keep it, and is that the right breed of dog". The dog was bought to look mean, without consdieration of the fact that that particular breed is not meant to be housed outside in anything but moderate conditions year round, be it either heat or cold, and they also do not do well mentally being kept more isolated. They are far "needier" dogs than many other breeds, and that is why he's having problems.

I fully understand different people not seeing their animals as more than the animals they are, I do not feel that way, but they are entitled to it. The main reason I got upset myself was the way it was talked about, with it sounding like he didn't much care if she was bred or not, and didn't seem to realize the lack of socialization time was causing a lot of the problems. The dog has too much pent up energy, and she's getting blamed for being an active dog who hasn't been trained. It's not her fault.

Tim, I wish you luck in training her, and that things are able to settle down for you all, but if you really want to send her to your BIL, please don't let her be a breeder, it's really so hard on them. I have a dog that was used as a breeder, she came to me after, and she has had many health problems and illnesses because of it.

Jods

03-21-2007, 01:33 PM

Tim,
This must be a tough decision, I have gone through a situation where I had to make a tough decision like this too. GL training Daisy, I hope you find what it is you can do to keep her. If not GL finding her a great home.
Jods

Husky_mom

03-22-2007, 12:32 PM

I´m not saying anything about the subject, but I´m sticking to the helping line here.......

I find out easier teaching a dog to sit and then go on from there.....

first have her in her leash and collar and it may take long it may be quicker, then hold a treat she loooves in front of her, lt her smell it or lick it and then place it above her head and a little behing so she has to look up and back and that makes her sit....... also say "sit" WHILE she´s sitting not any other time so she relates "sit" whith what she´s doing...... you can also try incorporating a hand signal......

for example I hold the treat (which once she learns you can omit) between my index finger and my thumb and hold the rest fingers up as in an "ok" signal.... say "sit" and once performed you give the treat.....

try this a few times during the 10-15 minutes and then try again later that day if possible, if not again the next day...... just a few times until she realizes that sitting means a yummy treat and she´ll do it

you can PM me if needed