whos fault would it be?

[angelbow20]

My sister's boyfriend was walking there one dog yesterday and some guy that worked at there apartment complex just walked up and and pet the dog, Well he never asked to pet her and just reached down and she bit him enough to draw blood, Holly does'nt like alot of men expecually if she does'nt know them and some of you who have border collies know some border collies are protective of thier family... The guy flipped out and now the landlord called and told them they need all her vet info and so on, thats all understandable but the man also lied and said my sister has a cat and other animals at her place and she is only aloud to have 2, she doesnt have a cat and she does have 2 dogs and thats it. What I dont understand is why he is flipping out on my sister and her boyfriend when he did'nt even ask to pet holly or anything and before my sisters boyfriend could tell him she would bite the damage was already done. Would'nt that be more his fault for not asking first? Also she called the vet where she always takes her dogs and they said they have no info on either dog!!! so now she is having trouble finding all the vet info!

[borzoimom]

I am afraid any dog bite is serious. I would suggest being apologetic- not angry. I hope this works out, but having too many cats is the least of their problems. Does the dog have a rabies shot?

[applesmom]

It was stupidity or ignorance on the part of the person who was bitten as any dog can become protective given the right circumstances.

However it's your brother-in-laws fault for allowing the incident to happen. The leash laws state that a dog owner must have their dog under control at all times.

He put the dog in a position where something like this could happen, knowing that the dog is protective and doesn't like men, it was his responsibilty to keep the dog under control and warn the neighbor to stay out of reach.

If the dogs had been seen by that vet; the vet is required to maintain a file on that pet with a copy of the rabies certificate attached. The rabies vaccination can also be confirmed by the local Rabies animal control agency.

[BC_MoM]

Unfortunately, it is the fault of the owner - in the law's eyes. :(

The only way I think it wouldn't be is if the owner warned the person that their dog has the ability and may bite. Then again, they may claim that the dog is then dangerous and proper precautions (muzzle) should have been taken. :rolleyes:

Animal lovers should have made the laws.

[Lori Jordan]

This is a sad situation,Where are they from,I was watching Animal Cops last night,This man had a rotti,The rotti was going to the vet office,I started watching half way through,Regardless the rotti had bitten,The animal control took as protecting his owner,All laws are different in different states i think this was in Miami,Regardless Best of luck too all inviloved.

My thinking though if you walk up to a strange dog your taking a chance,Regardless if the dog will nip,or it is the friendliest dog around.

My Maggy does not like strangers,Thankfully she just lets out a few grumbles and lays down.

[critter crazy]

Unfortunately it is the owners fault. This is why I was so concerned about rocky, who seemed to have aggression towards men. Just have them do the best they can to appease the man, and not get angry, accidents do happen. Best of luck!

[Suki Wingy]

Well, that man needs to be politley educated. My Layla bit anyone who came up and petted her, because she would be easily startled. I never touch ANYONE's dog without asking first.

[Ginger's Mom]

Applesmom said it very well. It is definitely the dog owners fault. There is a responsibility to control your dog. I had a foster that bit someone once (it was definitely not that person's fault). I attempted to be apologetic and offered to take the person to whatever doctor/hospital he wished to be checked out at. However, he indicated that since this was the second time he had been bitten by a dog (not one of my dogs, as a matter of fact not any of the dogs in our area) he was fed up and wanted to call the police. I politely waited until the police arrived gave them my information and took the foster and Ginger home. The man signed a complaint against me for failure to control a dog on leash. However, he never showed up at any of the court dates. Unfortunately, with my job I cannot be appearing on the municipal court lists, so I have had to stop fostering until I have my own property. :(

[lizbud]

I hope this works out, but having too many cats is the least of their problems. Does the dog have a rabies shot?


Where did you see the poster say that she has a lot of cats?

I would think that the man is at fault here. If he reached out to the dog
without permission, it's his fault.

Also All Vets keep records on all their patients, so tell her to contact the
Vets office again. Good luck with this.

[Daisy and Delilah]

It does seem logical that a person wouldn't want to take a chance at petting a dog they don't know, period. I can understand how you're seeing it angelbow. I would just feel like saying, "Hey, you shouldn't have come near the dog."

However, laws are laws. The dog owner is liable. What is so hard to understand is why is her vet having trouble finding any info on her dog/s? Also, why is he accusing her of having extra pets in the house? Okay, the guy is upset but why is he fabricating stories? :(

[borzoimom]

... the guy flipped out and now the landlord called and told them they need all her vet info and so on thats all understandable but the man also lied and said my sister has a cat and other animals at her place and she is only aloud to have 2, she doesnt have a cat and she does have 2 dogs and thats it.
Lizbud- the man thinks she has two cats- but she has two dogs.. With a bite- her house will be inspected as well. Obiously there is a limit where she lives how many animals she can have.
Angelbow- I hope she can find the records or remembers which vet. And applesmom is right- even on a leash - you still have to maintain control .

[angelbow20]

I am afraid any dog bite is serious. I would suggest being apologetic- not angry. I hope this works out, but having too many cats is the least of their problems. Does the dog have a rabies shot?


they dont have any cats they only have 2 dogs. and they think she is up todate on her shots but arent sure because the vet never sends them reminders or calls either, they think she is getting close to it though.

[angelbow20]

This is a sad situation,Where are they from,I was watching Animal Cops last night,This man had a rotti,The rotti was going to the vet office,I started watching half way through,Regardless the rotti had bitten,The animal control took as protecting his owner,All laws are different in different states i think this was in Miami,Regardless Best of luck too all inviloved.

My thinking though if you walk up to a strange dog your taking a chance,Regardless if the dog will nip,or it is the friendliest dog around.

My Maggy does not like strangers,Thankfully she just lets out a few grumbles and lays down.


They live in Pa.. so im not sure about the laws but my sisters boyfriend offered to pay for whatever he needs to, He said they guy had the smallest little scratch and flipped out and grabbed at the dog so fast that he couldnt even warn him intime, they were just outside there apartment door.

[angelbow20]

It does seem logical that a person wouldn't want to take a chance at petting a dog they don't know, period. I can understand how you're seeing it angelbow. I would just feel like saying, "Hey, you shouldn't have come near the dog."

However, laws are laws. The dog owner is liable. What is so hard to understand is why is her vet having trouble finding any info on her dog/s? Also, why is he accusing her of having extra pets in the house? Okay, the guy is upset but why is he fabricating stories? :(


Thats what I dont understand, they actually have 3 dogs but he are keeping one at my house because they are moving out this month and are taking him back, so they only actaully had 2 dogs at there place, where they got seeing cats and stuff we have no idea though. and with the vets situation it kinda makes me mad because I also take my animals to the same vet and they seem to be so forgettable and lose papers and everything, my sisters before came home and went to the vets today to talk to them but Im not sure how it turned out yet.

[borzoimom]

they dont have any cats they only have 2 dogs. and they think she is up todate on her shots but arent sure because the vet never sends them reminders or calls either, they think she is getting close to it though.
I hope the vet has them and the shots are up to date. Sounds like to me the one bit is going to make trouble..

[GiantSchnauzer]

I'd say it was the owners fault. They had a dog out in public knowing that she doesn't like certain men. I would have steered clear of any oncoming people.

[Catlady711]

If the dogs had been seen by that vet; the vet is required to maintain a file on that pet with a copy of the rabies certificate attached. The rabies vaccination can also be confirmed by the local Rabies animal control agency.


Also All Vets keep records on all their patients, so tell her to contact the Vets office again. Good luck with this.

Both of you are correct, the vet is required to maintain records AND the owners are entitled to copies of those records. If it's true the vet loses records frequently then he may be held liable for failure to maintain and provide records and can be reported.

However not knowing the whole situation it is possible for people to 'vet hop' so often they don't remember where shots were given at or even where they had their appts at which would make getting records difficult. We get this about once a week.

Just had this happen today, a lady comes in with a cat, insists she has an appt with us for 2:30 (we don't have ANY appts scheduled from 2-3 today), then lady thinks 'maybe' it might have been with the hospital down the road from us (our names aren't even close). Nope we called them they never heard of her and didn't have anyone with a similar pet scheduled at all that day. Lady keeps insisting she has an appt with one of us at 2:30. We finally just sent her off to the other place to argue with them for a while since she was now convinced her appt was with the other hosp.

There's also a possibility of having vaccinations done at one of those low cost 'parking lot clinics' where they do a 1-2 day vaccination clinic with a local vet. If a person doesn't keep the records for themselves, it might be difficult to track down which vet was the one doing the shots that day.

Just some thoughts.

[lizbud]

Lizbud- the man thinks she has two cats- but she has two dogs.. With a bite- her house will be inspected as well. Obiously there is a limit where she lives how many animals she can have.



She has a limit of two animals and she has two dogs, so it doesn't matter
what the guy says.

[borzoimom]

She has a limit of two animals and she has two dogs, so it doesn't matter
what the guy says.
It does here- since he was bitten the house is checked. If they determine the other dog is aggressive as well, this is going to be trouble- big time!

[lizbud]

It does here- since he was bitten the house is checked. If they determine the other dog is aggressive as well, this is going to be trouble- big time!


Well, she isn't there so it doesn't matter, right?

[mr.chiwawa]

I am shocked that she hasnt kept her OWN vet records on her animals. I make copies of EVEYTHING Mister gets done at the vet. Also on another note when they get their rabies shot dont they get a tag? Mister does along with his other tags. I keep them with my jeep key where they are too big for his neck. ( :p ) Point being even if the vet "lost" the records she should have her own copies at home.

[borzoimom]

Since two of mine are therapy dogs- they have to have a health certificate that records their shot record. I also carry with me to dog shows a copy of their records, and even all 4 have a folder in my van of the records.

[areias]

Can everyone please STOP bickering, I was interested in reading the responses-not an argument. :o

[Canis-Lupess]

Ah, I remember this happening to me at the end of the summer. A stupid dippy woman let her toddler run up to our Jess and he grabbed her head and stuck his face right up to hers only to get himself snapped at. She called the police on me.

Our Jess was on a lead when it happened so she wasn't classed as being out of control in a public place. When the police came...and it was like 3 weeks later when they did, one of them went out back to see the dogs and saw for himself how friendly they usually are. He had BCs himself and admitted that his would have bitten the kid had it done the same to them too.
Both of the officers agreed that it should have been her kept better control of her child.

She tried to insist I put muzzles on the dogs but there was nothing she could do about it because Jess couldn't be proved as dangerous. She had never snapped at anyone before and she was nearly 13 years old.
I told her to get stuffed and told her she was completely stupid for allowing a toddler to run up and grab a strange dog and that nearly any dog would have snapped at him or even worse...not just our Jess. Everyone I told about it agreed with me and called her a few choice names in the process. Most people on our street supported me...even making sarcastic jokes out loud about me not having muzzles on my vicious dogs as I walked down the street, haha.

Obviously, this is in the UK but I think things are similar as they are in various parts of the states. We don't have to worry about the rabies thing here like in the States though.
Still, had our Jess not been on the lead, things could have been a whole lot different.

When I asked the officer what to do if anymore dippy mothers allowed their kids to run up, he told me to warn them to keep the children away and if they still allowed them, I had this in my defence if anything happened.

In the end, many dogs who bite would never run up and bite a person, they'd only do it if the person tried to touch them or did something that frightened them which means they aren't REALLY dangerous and any bites can be avoided if people leave them alone. Still humans being as stupid as they are sometimes...and they'll never take responsibility for their own actions, it has to be somebody elses fault.

Still, the law doesn't see things this way. Whenever some poor kids gets mauled by a dog and the paper gets hold of the story, the anti-canine feeling in society grows and there are people who want a whole list of breeds banning such as rotties, staffies, GSDs etc....people who obviously know nothing about dogs and think that a dog should act like a stuffed toy and allow anything to be done to it just to accommodate stupid humans who have no common sense.
The stories in the paper about these mauled kids always fail to mention what happened directly before the attack. They'd never mention that the kid might have stabbed the dog in the eye with a pen or trodden on it's paw or grabbed it's head and stuck their eyes right up to the dogs and made a growling noise.....no, the reader is given the impression that the dog just decided to maul and kill the child for absolutely no reason at all other than for the sheer pleasure of it.

Yes, it's all very annoying for the dog owner but it is the law that we have to abide by.

Good luck with sorting all this out.

I do agree that trying to maintain good relations with the guy that got bitten is a better bet....even if he was daft for trying to touch a strange dog without asking first.

[mr.chiwawa]

Did anyone read my reply??? Does anyone agree with me?

[borzoimom]

" I do agree that trying to maintain good relations with the guy that got bitten is a better bet....even if he was daft for trying to touch a strange dog without asking first"
Exactly- the laws are on his side.

[areias]

Did anyone read my reply??? Does anyone agree with me?

A tag isn't proof enough for the rabies vaccine. They need to have the manufacturers name, lot number, everything-which as on the rabies certificate. Yes, she should have the rabies certificate hanging around somewhere-although I hate to say it, maybe the dogs in fact do not have their shots, and she's just trying to find her way around it.

[mr.chiwawa]

As I also stated I have a copy of my dogs FULL vet record not just his tags. And I think your right I'm not 100% convinced the dogs are vacinated either. :rolleyes:

[borzoimom]

A tag isn't proof enough for the rabies vaccine. They need to have the manufacturers name, lot number, everything-which as on the rabies certificate. Yes, she should have the rabies certificate hanging around somewhere-although I hate to say it, maybe the dogs in fact do not have their shots, and she's just trying to find her way around it.
I agree. A tag is usually not enough proof if the skin is broken.

[areias]

It's probably because, well, you can interchange tags lol...if you have rabies on only one dog, but have two dogs, if you bring dog #2 out you could potentially put dog #1's collar and tag on and be "fine". They also need to make sure there is nothing wrong with that particular vaccine-if 100 dogs are vaccinated with Ft. Dodge's rabies vaccine, lot # 10A044, and 70 of those dogs have bit someone-that's the problem! Or if 5 dogs come up with rabies and they have been given that lot # vaccine-well, there is also something wrong with the vaccine. I hope you get why I'm saying...

[Daisy and Delilah]

I am shocked that she hasnt kept her OWN vet records on her animals. I make copies of EVEYTHING Mister gets done at the vet. Also on another note when they get their rabies shot dont they get a tag? Mister does along with his other tags. I keep them with my jeep key where they are too big for his neck. ( :p ) Point being even if the vet "lost" the records she should have her own copies at home.

I think it's a great idea to keep your own records. I do that too. I don't keep all of them but the most current ones. My girls always get a tag with their rabies shot. I agree with you that the pet owner should have some kind of proof that the dog has been vaccinated. This is a perfect example of this being a necessity.

I hate to ask, but, what happens if they can't produce the record? Does anyone know?

[applesmom]

I think it's a great idea to keep your own records. I do that too. I don't keep all of them but the most current ones. My girls always get a tag with their rabies shot. I agree with you that the pet owner should have some kind of proof that the dog has been vaccinated. This is a perfect example of this being a necessity.

I hate to ask, but, what happens if they can't produce the record? Does anyone know?

It would depend on the laws in their area and the probability or possibility of an actual case of rabies developing. In the majority of counties, if there is no proof of rabies shots available the dog will be impounded for a set amount of time at the owners expense, and the owner will be fined for not properly licensing the dog.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Thanks applesmom. :)

It could get pretty bad for them then. :(

[applesmom]

Thanks applesmom. :)

It could get pretty bad for them then. :(

You're welcome! :)

Yes it could get expensive all right. In my area, if a dog bites/nips (not attacks) someone and it has had it's rabies shot, it can be quaranteened at home.

If it's not been vaccinated it must be impounded at the Rabies Animal Control facility.

[Marigold2]

This reminds me of one of the Pink Panther movies. Peter Sellers sees this dog, he asks the man behind the desk, "Does you dog bit?" The man say "NO". So Sellers reaches down to pet the dog and it snaps at him. Sellers looks at the man and says " You said your dog didn't bite" and the old man says" " That is not my dog" :D :p

[Taz_Zoee]

The dog my mom and I helped save had bit twice, both times while she was pregnant. Animal Control ordered the dog to be removed from the city limits. My parents live out in the country and agreed to take her. They (my parents) believed she was only "aggressive" because she was being protective of her puppies. Although we knew she was not good around small children. That wasn't a problem because my nieces are 13 & 16 years old. However, one day my youngest niece took her little 2 year old cousin over and let Pepsi out of the kennel. I'm not sure how it happened, but Pepsi bit him. It was completely my nieces fault for letting her out around him.
But anyway, enough of my stories. I hope things work out okay for your sister.

[angelbow20]

I am shocked that she hasnt kept her OWN vet records on her animals. I make copies of EVEYTHING Mister gets done at the vet. Also on another note when they get their rabies shot dont they get a tag? Mister does along with his other tags. I keep them with my jeep key where they are too big for his neck. ( :p ) Point being even if the vet "lost" the records she should have her own copies at home.

They found her papers at the vet but whats confusing is the one paper says she isnt due for 3 yrs and the other says she is due now.

[angelbow20]

I think it's a great idea to keep your own records. I do that too. I don't keep all of them but the most current ones. My girls always get a tag with their rabies shot. I agree with you that the pet owner should have some kind of proof that the dog has been vaccinated. This is a perfect example of this being a necessity.

I hate to ask, but, what happens if they can't produce the record? Does anyone know?


My sister and her boyfriend found the records for holly, (the one who bit). But the one they cant find for now is Toby, because they gave him to somebody for about 1 month and now they took him back, but the other people still have his paper work.

[angelbow20]

You're welcome! :)

Yes it could get expensive all right. In my area, if a dog bites/nips (not attacks) someone and it has had it's rabies shot, it can be quaranteened at home.

If it's not been vaccinated it must be impounded at the Rabies Animal Control facility.


They were told to quaranteen her at home in a cage for 10 days.

[applesmom]

They were told to quaranteen her at home in a cage for 10 days.

That's good news! It will be much better for Holly and everyone concerned--much less expensive too. :)

This should be a wakeup call to everyone that reads this to keep track of their dogs vaccination records.

We've all heard of cases where a child was accidently nipped or scratched in play by someone elses dog--especially puppies and young dogs. Many times no one is even sure if it's a scratch or a bite. The majority of these incidents are superficial and not even reported.

Once even the slightest scratch is reported--the problems can begin!

[DrKym]

Well said Applesmom,

With the fosters that come in and out of here I have learned to be scrupulous about keeping records. I have been very lucky that I have never needed to have that tested, but it is always a possibility. I have kids, they have friends, we have dogs, it is only a matter of time :rolleyes: .
Now I don;t mean that in the fact that I am expecting anyone to get bit or scratched, just that as my son gets older, he plays differently with the dogs, more opportunities for a stray tooth during frisbee games than there is quietly petting on the couch.

This thread was a great reminder to double check all my own records and to requests copies that I could not immediately get my hands on!

I am glad things worked angelbow, and I wish your sister luck on locating Tobys records.

Kym

[mike001]

Around here if a dog bite someone it's automatically the owner's fault. Even if your dog bites a member of the family and breaks the skin it has to be reported. The dog is quarantined for 14 days and there is some checking up, is the dog current on shots(rabies) has it bitten before, how much damage was caused. Some people will get mad enough to sue and if they do, they win hands down. We tend to look at things more leniently since we're dog lovers but in reality the owner is held accountable. I for one would want to know the reason if any of my dogs ever bit someone who only petted them. I know we advocate to never touch a strange dog, but unfortunately the law doesn't see it that way.I have to wonder why any dog would bite someone who was only petting it?
I'm sorry for all the trouble this will be causing you and I hope everything works out.