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BoxerLover
12-18-2000, 02:35 PM
I have a boxer and I know people with breeds like dobermans, rotweilers, pit bulls, bulldogs, bullmastifs, and boxers, feel the same way I do. I'm mad that some people think because of the breed of the dog, they assume they're mean. When I'm walking Nikki, my boxer, people pull their kids towards them and say "stay away from the mean doggie, he doesnt like you." and they start walking away. Would they do that if I was walking a golden retriever? If they didn't walk away, and came to pat the dog, what if that dog was mean? People make stereotypes and assume that just because of things they hear about the breed, whether the dog is mean or nice. Any one of the "mean breeds" could be way nicer than a lab or golden,etc. walking arond. Anyway I just have to say that I'm a bit disturbed at the way these peple think.

Sophies Daddy
12-18-2000, 04:56 PM
I know it's unfortunate, but these breeds are historically kept as protection animals. It wasn't until just recently that guard breeds were allowed in the house, much less accepted as family members. I fear that the stereotypes will remain so long as these dogs are trained to attack. Your friendly neighborhood law enforcement personnel and small minded, frightened people will no doubt continue to use these dogs for that purpose because it is the dog's basic breeding.

It is unfortunate that your boxer has to be lumped in with these dogs. I have yet to meet a bad natured boxer that wasn't made that way by bad people. They are as a whole excellent family pets that love their family and children and most don't have a mean bone in their bodies. On the other hand, I have yet to meet any guard breed that is naturally bad natured either, but, because they are still sometimes trained to do bad things, I would choose to keep loved ones away from the dogs unless the owner strictly says something to the effect of "The dog is a sweetheart, it wouldn't hurt (and hasn't bitten) anyone. Go ahead and pet him/her." You never know what the owner has done with the dog.

Try this one: the next time you hear those awful words about your dog, counter with "No, please, my dog is a sweetheart. I would love for your child to pet him/her." If your dog gets a reputation as being a great, friendly dog, you might just change the breed perception in your corner of the world.

Sudilar
12-18-2000, 05:35 PM
I've never considered boxers to be mean. The ones that I've known were all very nice, well-mannered dogs. When I see a boxer, mean never enters my mind. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

------------------
***Save a life, ADOPT***

lhg0962
12-18-2000, 06:38 PM
I agree with Rachel and Sue...I've never even thought about including a Boxer in the group with some of the more "protective" dogs. In fact, I wouldn't even include Bulldogs, having grown up with one.
You just need to broadcast the word..."My Boxer is not mean" and encourage and correct people when they say something different. I have two Golden Retrievers and one happens to be very unpredicatable...I'd never let her near strangers or encourage people to come close to her, so you just never know. She barks and growls at strangers and who would ever think of that from a Golden Retreiver?
Keep your chin up and give your baby a big hug from Helen and me! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif
Logan

JKRJG24
12-18-2000, 06:49 PM
BoxerLover is my neighbor and I know she HATES it when people call Boxers or any other dog like that mean!! I do too!!! I think its stupid!!! Infact my friend has a Yorrkie that is meaner than any Rott Boxer ect. that I've ever met!!!! It bites just about anything that moves and it hurts!!!!!!!! Besides when i think of a Boxer I think of a clown not a mean dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean that in a good way!!!!!!! I think they are cute!!!!!!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by JKRJG24 (edited December 18, 2000).]

KYS
12-18-2000, 07:28 PM
I agree, I also hate it, when certain people/groups clump a certain breeds of dog
and stereo type them.

A couple of years ago I took my female Akita to the leashless dog park.
As I was walking into the Dog Park from the parking lot, I hear a voice yelling at me.
I turned around and it was a woman
getting out of her car yelling.
"My dog does not like your dog so keep you dog away"
Now this woman never met me nor my dog.
I have taken my female Akita
everywhere with me
from camping, dog camps and hotels etc.
She is the sweetest girl, and very
well mannered.


[This message has been edited by KYS (edited December 18, 2000).]

KYS
12-18-2000, 07:55 PM
posted by Sophies Daddy:
Your friendly neighborhood law enforcement personnel and small minded, frightened people will no doubt continue to use these dogs for that purpose because it is the dog's basic breeding.>>>>>>

Unless stats have changed in my area,
the biggest problem lies with criminals
and mostly young men between the ages of 18 and 25 who use certain breeds of dogs from
protection, illegal dog fights and drug deals etc.
certain breeds are also popular among people living in high crime areas for protection.

JKRJG24
12-18-2000, 08:53 PM
I agree!!! It's all those people who use the dogs illegally!!!!!!!!!! I HATE it!!!!! By the way i love akitas!!!!!!!!!! How could somone be scared of such cute sweeties like Nikki(BoxerLovers Boxer) and your Akita!! My aunt has a Rott Boxer mix! When she got it everyone thought she was crazy!!! He is a very big dog and one day my little cousin was playing with one of those plastic golf club and she turned around and smacted him on the head relly hard!!!!!! Everybody thought he was going to bite her or something because they all got relly quiet but all he did was turn around and sigh!!! Then he went and layed down!! Every one has trusted him since then!!!!!!!!! He is just a big baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif

BoxerLover
12-18-2000, 09:02 PM
Yes I know that boxers were originally bred for fighting in Germany, but now they are mainly pets. I just wish people wouldn't assume Nikki's mean just because she looks like she might be mean. Most everyone in my neighborhood knows Nikki is a wiggly, happy, loving ball of energy that wouldn't hurt a flea, but I will continue to change the unknowing peoples attitudes about breeds like these.

shais_mom
12-19-2000, 12:58 AM
OK! I have the exact opposite problem, as I am walking my greyhound and we encouter little kids, they come running toward her with arms open. She loves children but still what if she didn't? I would be trouble!!!
I don't think that you can catorgize a dog's temperment by its breed. I know a golden retriever that is very much the alpha dog when it comes to other dogs and I am very unsure about my fragile tempermented greyhound to meeting her. And a friend of mine has a cocker spaniel that is the "Hound from Hell!" I have always loved dogs, but this little twerp made me think that I was not a dog person. Thank God I got my Shaianne and she convinced me otherwise. He snaps, and barks and hates people with short hair and when I first met him I had very short hair, now I have long hair and he tolerates me if I bring him puperoni!!!! He made me rethink cocker spaniels!!!!

KYS
12-19-2000, 09:44 AM
posted by shais_mom:
I have the exact opposite problem, as I am walking my greyhound and we encouter little kids, they come running toward her with arms open. She loves children but still what if she didn't? >>>>>>>

Excellent point:
When we were young we were taught never to
approach strange dogs, unless we got permision from the owner. Unfortunately
some parents encourage their young
children to approach dogs with or with out permission.

RachelJ
12-19-2000, 10:04 AM
Even though both my dogs are good natured around children and have been exposed to them with the neighborhood children coming over to play with them, I am always very vigilent. Some (and I do mean some, not all) little kids don't have a clue how to approach or interact with a dog. Handling by an unknown person that is lightening quick or rough may put any dog in a fear situation. And fear can mean a bite. Some little kids also don't know how to read a dog's signals. The dog may be signaling, leave me alone, I don't like that, and the kids don't get it. My dogs have never biten anyone, but I still am put on an alert to supervise interactions with strangers and am not hesitant to "teach" in the process.

ownerof3dogs
12-19-2000, 03:10 PM
I know what you guy are taling about.
When we had our male Doberman we took him to the dog park. We could see everyone grabbing their kids and dogs. there was about 10-15 people there. when we returned from a trail everyone had left. It made me feel terible.
Everyone just assumes breeds like the lab and golden retreivers are all friendly. for the most part they are. But some arn't. My dog was attacked by a Golden retreiver at the dog park.
I think it is just wrong that people stereo types certain breeds for me the protection breeds are the best.

carrie
12-20-2000, 06:34 PM
Maybe this is another good reason to think before docking and ear clipping? (Yes...I'm off on it AGAIN!!!!) I agree that certain breeds have been victimised in the press. This, very sadly, leads to people with the wrong intentions and motives seeking out these breeds to own. This leads to more horror stories, etc. etc.
(Another bulletin board I visited had a huge debate about American Pit Bulls and some of the owners were so concerned about the breed image and told such heart warming stories of their own dogs I read on for quite a while. Every tenth or so post, though, was from someone bragging what knew species they had got their dog to attack on sight, or which part of the anatomy they were training their dog to bite first. It was sickening in the extreme. These are the people regulations should be imposed for!)
By docking and clipping we are, I feel, preventing perfectly friendly, social dogs from being accepted. Docked and clipped dogs do look different and are, to many people, unpredictable as their intentions are not clear.
My own dog is 100% kid proof but I never allow anyone to approach him unless they ask. It's not polite and it's not a safe practice.
My children are well drilled in the procedure, although it is amazing how many adults choose to ignore children who are being polite and sensible.

A few weeks ago I was waiting to take my kids into school. The lady in front of me had a beautiful Weirmeraner sitting patiently at heel. It was on a lead and seemed fairly relaxed. A little girl in front of them turned around to look at the dog. The dog's lady was aware of her, the girl was about three years old and at eye level to the dog. The girl's mother had no idea that a dog was behind them and the dog's owner was the one who got so close to those in front. When the little girl had been staring in wonder for a few seconds the dog lunged forward barking. The owner was ready for it and had the dog on a very short lead. I was just about to tell the woman what her dog was going to do when it happened. I walked forward and said, rather angrily, "I knew that was going to happen and so did you! Why didn't you stop it?"
"Yeah, but the stupid little brat won't do it again, will she?" was the rather self satisfied answer I got. When there are people, with dogs, acting like that .....

As a community of dog people I believe we should do all we can to educate our dogs about children and our children about dogs but it seems that there are people who really believe that three year olds deserve to be frightened and dogs deserve to be tarnished in the eyes of the public and rewarded by their owners for behaving in this way.
By cutting off the bits of the dog that are the biggest signs to people of how they feel and how they are going to act, aren't we making the situation a bigger hurdle to overcome?
I agree it is wrong to judge every dog by the few but I also feel there are so many things we could do to make it easier for everyone to accept dogs in the community.

Finally, sorry everyone, I know most of you have heard it all before from me and are getting pretty sick of me banging on about it.

KYS
12-20-2000, 09:02 PM
posted by carrie:
Every tenth or so post, though, was from someone bragging what knew species they had got their dog to attack on sight, or which part of the anatomy they were training their dog to bite first. It was sickening in the extreme.>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Carrie, Not to change the subject but your post reminded me about something.
A couple of years ago, when I used to have AOL for my ISP server, I would surf
the dog boards they had.
I would read the Pit Bull dog board
because it had the liveliest debates.
Unfortunaely there were a handfull of
Pit Bull owners who believed the worst stereotype for pitbulls was exceptable.
Some were also breeders who bread for
gameness (sp) prey aggression.
They even went as far to post that they felt dog fighting should be legal.
They also posted how Akita breeders were ruining the breed by trying to breed out the dog aggression from them.
Needless to say they bullied/scared off other pit bull owners from posting, and the pit bull board was even shut down for a period of time.
It's people with this sick mentality that should never own a dog.

shais_mom
12-20-2000, 11:35 PM
To Carrie: All the little girl did was look at the dog?? What a nutcase!
Does anyone watch ER? Thursday night's epiosde was about little boy that came in with multiple dog bites. The mothers were arguing, the boy's mom said the dog needs put down, and the owner said something must have happened and so on and so forth.
Well, in the last 10 minutes it came out that the little boy had got a BB gun for his birthday and he shot the dog with it and that is why he was attacked.
I too was taught to be careful of dogs growing up even our own dog. Which is why it astounds me when childred toddle up to my dog as in my prev post. In today's SUE ME society I can't believe people do this!!

carrie
12-21-2000, 05:21 AM
To be honest if I had not seen it all happen right in front of me I would not of believed it. The little girl was staring into the dog's eyes and the dog obviously took this as a threat. What I found the most disturbing was that the owner knew exacltly what was happening and did nothing to stop it. I have since spoken to the woman via a letter and have asked her to not stand with the dog in the line going into school. She now stands off to one side. I wrote to her as I couldn't trust myself to stay calm in person.

bushwack
12-21-2000, 11:35 AM
I feel terrible that people would actually tell their children that your dog is mean just because of the breed. I have a doberman myself and he is the sweetest dog. Anyone who met him would love him. He is only mean if someone hurts our family then he becomes protective.

JKRJG24
12-21-2000, 05:43 PM
I live next door to BoxerLover and I am one of her best friends!! Here is a picture of BoxerLovers Boxer Nikki!!!!!!!!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif
http://PetoftheDay.com/online/Nikki.jpg
Is'nt she cute? how could anyone think she is mean? I think she is sooooooo cute and she is such a sweetie!!!!!!!!!!!

BoxerLover
12-21-2000, 06:54 PM
Yes There is my sweet little baby girl! Thanx Jojo for posting it. I just wanted to say That I didn't want her ears clipped or her tail docked. For two years I wanted a boxer with natural ears and tail, but Nikki was a 10 month old rescue boxer and when I saw that sad face, I couldnt say no because of ears and a tail being cut off. I do agree that it makes her look a little meaner than if she had natural ears. Dont ya love her? http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

BoxerLover
12-21-2000, 07:32 PM
I love my beautiful, happy, bouncy, hyper, loving, adorable, sweet, perfect, floppy-lipped, baby girl boxer!!!! Look at that face!!!!!!!!!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

RachelJ
12-21-2000, 08:03 PM
OOOH, Nikki is BEAUTIFUL. You got yourself one fine animal. I can see why you love her to pieces. She is 10 months old so she still has a lot of puppy in her. Keep working with your dog and you will see setting aside a special time for play, exercise and "lessons" will pay off.

Thanks for posting the picture. When we talk about these dogs, it is so much fun to actually see them.

BoxerLover
12-21-2000, 09:07 PM
Yes, thank you so much for the complements!
When I got Nikki from the rescue in June, she had kennel cough and infected lips and we didn't know it, but she was also pregnant! About two weeks after we got her, we took her to the Vet because we noticed movement in her belly and we knew she was pregnent. We took her to the Vet and they said the 6 pups could be due any minute. The thing was that Nikki was skinny when she was full fleged pregnant. That shows how undernourished she was from roaming the streets in Detroit.


Anyway, two nights later, 6 pups were born, from 8:13pm to 12:34am and my! was it a wonderful expirience! I had the best summer in my life watching those puppies grow! They were supposedly Lab/St.Bernard and Boxer Mix. Thats what they look like now. They all live in wonderful homes now and two live together, and one lives down the street from us and Nikki and her are best friends.


I am going to have a Birthday party/reunion on June 28 next year and no dout they will all be bigger than Nikki.


Nikki is doing wonderful now and she is not very skinny anymore and also has one of the softest and shiny coats I've ever felt or seen on a boxer, too. She knows how to sit,stay,down,stand,come,shake with each paw and both at a time, and she can sing and give hugs. I love her soooo much and I could go on forever writing about her, but I'll stop, thanx for reading about my beautiful baby girl, you can get back to your discusion.

[This message has been edited by BoxerLover (edited December 21, 2000).]

Smilla
12-21-2000, 10:14 PM
Just a quick note: when I was younger my father taught me not to approach a dog who didn't look ready for play (tail wagging, licking, etc.--you know the look), and to offer up a closed fist, knuckles up, for the dog to sniff and lick first. That way, should the dog freak out and bite me, I wouldn't lose a finger. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif He also told me that dogs felt threatened when stared at.

[This message has been edited by Smilla (edited December 21, 2000).]

shais_mom
12-22-2000, 02:12 AM
I was always taught that even if the dog looked friendly, never try to pet it on the head, It may think you are striking it, Always offer your hand below the chin. Of course if they are going to bite, its easier to reach http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/biggrin.gif

karen israel
12-22-2000, 10:09 AM
Here's another defense on behalf of Boxers. I barely remember my uncle's boxer, only that we met eye to eye and I got slimed. One of my best friends' rescue boxer, sadly had to be put down due to cancer a few weeks ago, but "Niecey" was the most outstanding dog. She instinctively had manners, was regal, friendly, playful. My friend entertains alot and when food was on a coffee table, Niecey never, ever touched it. She was so loving, I'd let her lick me forever. Guard dog? When his house was robbed, she told the burglars where everything was! We all miss her terribly, but he never let her suffer. He is in the process of being approved for adopting another boxer. He said he would never get another, it's too early..but he loves the breed so much, he can't wait! If accepted, her name is Molly. His house is not a home without a boxer!! So there!!!
And as I've mentioned before, my neighbor's pit bull is friendly and sweet. Another kisser, lays on my feet (he knows I'm a sucker and will rub bellies forever)Just like bratty, unruly kids, it's parental guidance, upbringing and care. Like Logan's remark, Cody, a YL/GR mix cannot be trusted. He's extremely protective and territorial. Of course, as I've stated, I did not socialize him enough due to ignorance, but that's the point -it isn't always the breed, but what you do with them!!!

ownerof3dogs
12-22-2000, 01:25 PM
As we are on the subject of parents not teaching their kids how to approuch dogs. this past Holloween wasn't a very nice one. I always lock my dogs up in another room because the costumes drive them nuts. well it was about 9:00PM and we hadn't had and trick or treaters for over an hour. So I let my dogs out. well I was in the bathroom doing something and I heard I faint knockm at the door. So I turned to get the dogs so I could answer the door. when I little Girl who was a 5 dressed as Scoody Doo swung the front door open and screamed TRICK OR TREAT
well my dog Hercules isn't fond of kids as it is and this girl scared him and he grabbed her hand and startd to shake it. Luckly i was not down stairs or i another room i ran and grabbed his tail and pulled him back. I screamed at the girl to shut the door. I locked the dogs up and ran out side.
I was so scared thank god though that I was there. he didn't break the skin he got more of her costume.
I felt really bad but How could her father stand there and let her open someones door and walk in there house?. Not to mention I have a Beware of gaurd dog sign hanging right on the door!.
The next day the dog warden came and Herc had to be put in Quarintine. but the dog warden said it wasn't the dogs fault.
Parents need to start teaching there kids to respect other people and their animals.

lhg0962
12-22-2000, 01:37 PM
Ownerof 3dogs...
What a horrible experience for you and your dog. I'm with you, what parent would let their child open someone's door and walk in their house at 9 o'clock at night, Halloween or not. I'm so glad that everything turned out alright.
Last night, after dark, one of my friends came by to bring a Christmas present, and she did the same thing (of course we know her). Honey loves her, but she brought three little boys right in the door too. Thank goodness, Honey just got scared and ran into the other room. I immediately warned all of the children to leave her alone and love on Lilly instead. With just Helen, things are usually real quiet around here and that unusual situation just set poor Honey off.
People have to be more careful!! This whole discussion serves to remind us about taking care with our children and everyone's dogs, including our own.
Happy Holidays to all of you. Hope Santa is good to all of our furry friends.

Sophies Daddy
12-22-2000, 08:23 PM
Well, after seeing Nikki's picture, I can't imagine why anyone would think that she's a mean dog! She looks like such a sweetheart I just want to reach out and hug her.

I do also believe that kids should be trained better. In my training club we always say that it is easier to teach a child manners than it is to train a dog off of it's instincts. The following normal child behaviors mean different things in dog language:

Child Behavior: What it means to a dog:
Yelling Viscious barking
Screeching Hurt potential prey
Running around Hurt Potential prey
waving arms trying to escape
Quick, jerky Agression
movement
Riding the doggie Dominance mounting
Chasing the doggie Agression (or play)
Roughousing Dominance challenge
Staring Dominance challenge
Fear Potential prey

It shouldn't be too difficult to teach a child that these behaviors can make the doggie mad but that, if they learn not to do them, that the doggie will usually be nice.

My mother has a dog that will forever be fearful of children because a pack of evil ones (her former boss's neices and nephews) chased him, cornered him, and scared him so much that he pooped. I can't imagine what could have happened if he was a fear biter; after all, he is just eleven pounds and probably thought that they were going to eat him! Even so, it scarred his perceptions for a long time and it took several years to get him to willingly go near new people. He would probably be a much more social dog if that hadn't have happened.

Genia
12-22-2000, 09:25 PM
Nikki is a lovely lady! With that face I don't think I could ever be afraid! I was at the vet's office the other day and an elderly man was there with his dog. It was obvious they had a close bond; the man would talk softly to him and the dog seemed to listen to every word he said. I was trying to figure out what breed he was when the vet assistant said, "What a beautiful doberman". I was surprised. He hadn't been cropped or docked and what a difference. Normally a dobie would have seemed a bit intimidating. Sad thing to say, but that's the perception. Docking or ear cropping is not what makes a dog mean, sometimes it's the owners

SheltieLover234
12-22-2000, 09:56 PM
Your right dogs get bad names all the time http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif!I mean before I came on this site I thought that Rotties were very mean dogs because of movies.Then when I started reading Rotties messages, and I realized that their not as "Mean" as I thought they were at first.Also when dogs are "mean" its usually has to do with their owner.Some owners take things out on their dogs http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/frown.gif and they`re dogs are completely scared of people and protect themselves and become well,"mean." I think if everyone went on this site they would see that dogs get bad names just for entertainmemt. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

RachelJ
12-22-2000, 10:02 PM
I wish our school systems would take the responsibilty of teaching our children the care and reponsibility of pet ownership. I pay a phenomenonial amount of real estate taxes, the majority going to the schools, and there is so much lacking in the educational curriculum about the realities of life, the treatment and responsibility we have to domesticated animals is a prime example. Okay, I will get off of my soap box for the time being at least. Does anybody get my drift? It is time that we stopped animal abuse, neglect, overpopulation, etc. etc. etc. Where are our school systems in this mission? There is a failure to educate and I am mad as hell!!!

Genia
12-22-2000, 10:56 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RachelJ:
[B]I wish our school systems would take the responsibilty of teaching our children the care and reponsibility of pet

Rachel, I feel you frustration but I believe
it all starts at home. My parents taught me to respect all animals. I grew up in a home with dogs, fish, rabbits, horses, and a deer (until he grew spikes then he was given to a petting zoo). I got my first dog when I was five. It was my responsibilty to feed, walk, and bathe him. We lived in the country and my father would take me to the woods and name every bird and animal we would see. He also taught me not to approach a strange dog. I was taught to ask permission from the owner before petting and then to allow the dog to sniff my hand with my fingers curled under. Schools play a big part, yes, but I am responsible for teaching my daughter ethics, morals, values, and plain old human kindness.

On the subject of mean dogs, I think I read on this forum a while ago something about big dogs and insecure owners. I know that is not the case with most big dog owners, but maybe that's why some people think they need to train their dogs to be mean. They are insecure and beleive they have an image to uphold. Television doen't help. As I sit here at my desk with my Bandit giving me little Pug kisses I don't understand how anyone could train their dog to be so mean and vicious and miss out on the joy of true unconditional love.




[This message has been edited by Genia (edited December 23, 2000).]

BoxerLover
12-22-2000, 11:55 PM
Yes I was taught to always ask the owner if I could pet it and to put out my fist, not my palm.

carrie
12-23-2000, 09:06 AM
Genia, I wasn't suggesting that it is the act of docking or cropping that makes a dog aggressive but it does change people's perception of the dog's character. Brilliant story of the vet waiting room illustrates the point I was trying to make perfectly.
I still find it rather shocking to see so many cropped ears on this site as you never, ever see them in this country. I'm glad to say there are more and more traditionally docked dogs being left with a tail too. Springer's look wonderful and Boxer's stunning!

Genia
12-23-2000, 09:40 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by carrie:
[B]Genia, I wasn't suggesting that it is the act of docking or cropping that makes a dog aggressive but it does change people's perception of the dog's character.

Carrie, I guess I didn't say that right. I agree with you totally. I meant cropping and docking may make a dog look intimidating, but that's not what makes him mean.

carrie
12-23-2000, 01:12 PM
Don't worry, matey, I'm probably the one that got the wrong end of the stick - it's a pretty common thing with me! I think it's really down to the way different countries understand the way each other talk and I have major problems with my own!!!!! I'm much better at talking with dogs - honest!

KYS
12-23-2000, 02:11 PM
Carrie,
I think most people are better talking with their dogs.
They listen so well, do not talk back and
never have a mean thing to say.
Well most of the time. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif

RachelJ
12-23-2000, 05:08 PM
Genia, Yes, it does all start at home. But I just want there to be some hope for all the children of the CLUELESS parents who don't bother to care themselves. Sometimes "a child can lead us" if they are given the information. That's where the schools come in. The staggering numbers of animals who are abandoned and neglected is evidence of a problem in our society that needs to be addressed and obviously can't be left to the parental instruction or it wouldn't have reached the state that it is in today.

shais_mom
12-30-2000, 11:24 AM
I wanted to say that after seeing Nkki's picture, I don't know how anyone could think she was mean!!
I want to tell BoxerLover that normally I don't get overly excited about Boxers. My aunt and uncle used to raise them and I wanted one but was never allowed to get one, but I played with the puppies. http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
I will go out on a limb and say that I admittedly thought they were just dumb - not mean!!
I am going to put my neck out and tell a story that I was uncomfortable telling earlier. But even after this story I never thought they were truly mean.
My aunt had a very large male and female, and lived on a farm. Tyrone was the male, early in his life Tyrone got in with the baby pigs and killed some of them, and they didn't do anything with him. Personally I would not want a sire that did that to be the father of my beloved pet. Anyway, a couple years later, my aunt let the dogs out and got ready for work, as she was leaving she called the dogs and they didn't come, so she told my uncle to get them. When he went outside, he couldn't find them, but he heard some noise in the barn. He went in the barn and the dogs had killed one steer and were trying to get the other one down. Needless to say the dogs were put down immediatley. I realize this doesn't have a happy ending, but there is no way it could have one. I feel when any dog gets the kill instinct activated then it should be dealt with.
I grew up in a small rural farming community where dogs were farm dogs, working dogs. Not the pampered pet that I have. And in no way shape or form can a dog that kills livestock be a safe pet. Tyrone should have been dealt with when he killed the piglets.
But looking at Nikki she is one of the prettiest boxers I have ever seen and you can see the love and intelligence in her eyes.
Thank you for letting me share my "bad boxer" story. I again apologize for the unhappy ending and my aunt and uncle are NOT bad people!! http://PetoftheDay.com/talk/smile.gif
Congratulations on your beautiful boxer baby and keep the pics coming!!!

carrie
12-30-2000, 03:26 PM
The story above rather illustrates how we have come to take the good nature of dogs for granted. The number of times I've heard people say that the dog has never shown any signs of biting before - just after it has bitten a child or chased and attacked livestock. It is a reminder that a dog is a dog and is still servant to the instincts and drives buried deep within it and this is so often overlooked. I'm as big an offender as the next person and have leant heavily on all my dogs good natures.
The working collie from the next door farm to us in Cornwall was a hard working and trustworthy dog. He worked the sheep and cattle on the farm, never strayed and would defend his territory. One day he savaged four of our sheep, three of which died and one had to be put to sleep. Three others lost their lambs. We heard the commotion and got there as the next door neighbour did. The dog went back to working on his own farm and was never a problem again. One of our own Greyhounds, who walked quietly past the chickens every day of her life for two and half years, was left out of sight for a couple of minutes. We ended up with five dead chickens. In both cases it was lack of respect on the part of the humans concerned that caused these incidents. We should of known better than to leave the Greyhound loose on her own and the farmer the same with the collie.
What is viscious and what is a dog acting naturally with no leader in sight?

ownerof3dogs
12-30-2000, 07:51 PM
my dog Felice is a really nice dog but she hate small animals. Sje has killes 3 skunks at least 5 rats and the worst of them all She killes two puppies. We had a litter of mixed breed dogs. We almost got rid of her because of that. But the vet said that sometimes when A litter of pups is born to a female that is not the Alpha the Alpha female(felice) will kill the pups. Because they don't have the strong genes of the Alpha.She also hates small dogs.
I hate when people say "my dog would NEVER bite." I don't care how friendly your dog is if it is provoked or frightened their instinct is to bite.

BoxerLover
12-30-2000, 10:09 PM
Shais Mom, thank you for the complements on Nikki and what an awful story! Again, it wasn't the breed that acted this way, it was the dog. And yes, I agree that people should'nt say that there dog is harmless because it may not be. Owner of three dogs, some bitches kill puppies in there litters if they have a lot and they know they won't have enough milk to feed them all. This is natural, dogs did it in the wild.

Angels3
12-31-2000, 12:33 AM
I agree with you, BoxerLover, that certain breeds get wrongly judged. So breeds like boxers, dobermans etc are believed by some people to be big & rough & unpredictable.
One area of dog 'work' has proven that this is not necessarily so...& that's pet therapy. Pet therapy dogs work among very vulnerable people...sick children, frail elderly people, & patients with severe injuries. And big dogs do very well in this work & they're on a website to prove it.
Go to www.therapydogs.com (http://www.therapydogs.com) On the home page are 2 magnificent dobermans. Click on News at the side. The news story tells how a doberman roused a serious burns patient to respond, for the first time after admission.
Click on other E-Mail Stories & chose 'Mindy'
Up will come a story about 2 boxer pet therapy dogs, Mindy & Brandy...with a lovely photo.
At the children's hospital where our little dog does pet therapy, there are 2 huge, gentle german shepherds co-workers. Child patients, well enough to play, tumble all over them.
Also friends who own a small tibetan spaniel tell us how he plays great games with the huge rottie next door. The game finishes with the small dog draped over the rottie's head gently chewing his ear...to both their delight.

shais_mom
12-31-2000, 12:37 AM
BoxerLover- you are right. It could have been any breed of dog, it just so happened that they were boxers. Our neighbor had a Great Pyrnees and several people tried to shoot him, b/c there was a dog in the sheep!!! It wasn't until he was caught eating an already dead sheep, that people worried. To my knowledge he did NOT kill the sheep.

Another neighbor of ours had a very mean dog and you couldn't get near the house when he was out. Then one day the owners came home and found their dog mutilated and torn all over their GARAGE, we started to wonder what would do that! Rumors were flying around that it was a bobcat, coydogs, even a cougar(and in our area of OH its highly unlikely), or possibly another neighbors boxers(?not sure)/pitbulls. We never did find out what killed that dog, unfortunatley.

I agree with Carrie, a dog will follow its natural instinct. I believe that is why when my greyhound gets loose, she just runs, she is following her primal instinct to run. And there is little I can do to stop her, even tho basic obedience training would help I am sure!!
happy new year!

shais_mom
01-05-2001, 12:52 PM
Sorry to post 2 in a row but had to add my 2 cents worth about what happened once again at the vet today. Shaianne and I are sitting there minding our own business when this lady came in with 2 children and a pet carrier with a poodle and her puppies. The kids were oohing and ahhhing over Shaianne and then what do you know here they come the little girl practically fell across her. To say I was irritated was an understatement. My first thought (well ok second thought!!!!) I have to post this!!! Shai doesn't really mind kids, I have cousins and a nephew that climb all over her. But a strange child lurching across the room at my dog, gets me worked up!!! Thanks!!

[This message has been edited by shais_mom (edited January 05, 2001).]

AdoreMyDogs
01-05-2001, 02:32 PM
Some dogs can be trusted with children throwing themselves all over that dog, but parents should ALWAYS ask if it's ok to pet the dog, and should always talk with the owner to make sure the dog does not bite. Not all dog owners will admit to the fact that their dog may bite, tho, and it's a shame. Parents should not only ask if the dog bites, but they should be able to read the dog's body language before sending the kids to pet it. Some parents are WAY too trusting, and I pray that they don't pay for it with a not-so-friendly dog.

Sometimes kids (of questionable upbringing) will come up to Graham and throw their arms around him without asking if it's ok, or if he bites. I adore kids, and so does Graham, in fact I have always believed Graham would be happier in a household with kids because he loves them so much, but the parents should ALWAYS ask before they come up to ANY strange dog. I was at the park a few weeks ago and a family with a couple little kids came running up to Graham. They were just about to walk up to him and cuddle with him and the parents, instead of yelling out, "ask if the dog bites before you pet it" they yelled out, "be careful, you two". I felt it was giving the kids false hope that all dogs are friendly. I stopped them before they approched Graham and made them aware that they should always ask before they pet ANY dog. After I talked to them, of course they asked if he bit, but it was only because I had to tell them first.

It sure would be nice if parents taught their kids to always ask before they pet a strange dog. It's easy for kids when they live with a dog that is normally untrustworthy, but most kids (at least where I live) have friendly family pets, and therefor, believe all dogs are friendly because of that.

Sudilar
01-05-2001, 04:17 PM
I think you are right, Adore, about most kids who run up to a dog, having family pets that are friendly and they mistakenly believe that all dogs are friendly. Parents must warn their kids about unfriendly dogs. I don't have too much of this problem because I walk two German Shepherds at a time and when the kids run up to them, the kids usually stop in their tracks when they look at my Killian (he's 110lbs. and looks mean). THEN they ask if they can pet them. Luckily my two are kid-friendly. However, kids MUST be warned by their parents of the danger of strange dogs.
I must admit, though, even I ALMOST made the mistake of petting a strange GSD at our first obedience class. (I am not afraid of GSDs because I've never met a mean one personally.) It turns out that she was a fear-biter and I MIGHT have gotten bitten. (It turned out that she did like me and did not feel threatened by me.) If she did bite me, though, it would have been my own stupid fault.!!

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***Save a life, ADOPT***

Karen
01-05-2001, 04:21 PM
Okay, I have to admit it - I was always one of those kids who wanted to pet any dog, despite my parents' warnings. The only scar I have on my face is from a neighbor dog, Reggie, a terrier mix who was usually confined to his own yard. I must have been about 3 or 4, and was playing in the front yard when in walked Reggie - so I threw my arms around him and hugged him like I did my own doggie. Well, Reggie chomped, and I was as shocked as I was hurt. I have a small (1/2 inch) scar right below my left lip, to remind me, as my Mom and Dad said then, "Not all dogs are hugging dogs, Wren-wren."
I will stress that my parents knew about dogs, and taught us often to be cautious around strange dogs, and how to approach them, etc., but I was too interested in the new doggie to remember their instructions. This extended to other species as well, only my Grandfather's hand firmly on my shoulder prevented me from trying to pick up the lovely blue-grey very feral kitten in his yard. The kitten's mama was hiding, crouched a few feet away, and Grandpa KNEW what would have happened had I tried, but still endured several minutes of "But, Grandpa! ..."

MUD PUPPY
01-27-2001, 05:59 PM
SAME HEAR BOXERLOVER!!!:MAD:

I HAVE A ST.BERNARD AND WHEN I WALK HER PEOPLE YELL KUJO!AND RUN AWAY:ROLLEYES:

I GETS ME SO MAD!!!!!!

SHE IS SO GENTLE!!!!!

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MUD PUPPY