dog food

[katrina]

hey all... what kind of food do you all feed your puppies with?... i use hills science plan, large breed. what is your opinion on that food??

[Love That Collie]

My opinion on SD is that there is better, more healthy foods on the market.
SD is near the very bottom of my list. It has lots of corn and by-products in it and you can get a much more superior food for the money you spend on SD.

[borzoimom]

Well I reserved posting for a while... I would not feed anything from Hills unless it was a perscription diet. I feed raw, with solid gold and bil jac as the back up.

[Catlady711]

Oh boy :eek: , yet another dog food war about to start! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

c'mon guys get it all out there;

rip apart just about every brand out there that isn't found by driving 50 miles or online ordering or making it yourself.

get into a debate over kibble vs. raw

throw in a few digs at Wally's World for fun,

get into a huge scientific debate over corn & by-products

And in the end everyone is either peeved or confused.

*sigh*

same old, same old :(

Bet this thread takes at least 2 weeks to slow down and finishes with about 4 pages minimum. ;)

[caseysmom]

When so many people neglect and starve their dogs I am just happy when people take care of their dogs and feed them.

[elizabethann]

Isn't there a link she can go to that show's the nutrional components of kibble? I can't find it.

Anyhow, Fenway eats Merrick canned food and for kibble he gets:

Merrick Grammy's Pot Pie 50%
Nutro Small Dog Kibble 20%
Innova 20%
Fromm's 10%

I just mix it all up & put it in his bowl.

Good luck finding a food you can afford & your dog enjoys (and is nutrional as well). I spent many a sleepless night & research on the internet trying to find something I felt happy & confident in. I finally chose the above products. If Merrick were a public company, I'd buy stock in it.

[mr.chiwawa]

I feed my dog the science diet moist puppy food. Because its not too mosit and not too dry. But as far as kibble and most of his treats go I feed him lifes abudence. Heres the link if anyone is curious.

http://http://healthypetnet.com/Healthypetnet/home.aspx?realname=

[katrina]

the breeder we got roly from gave us hills science plan puppy large breed as a starter pack and so we continued using it as she had started her dogs on it and thought it was the best!

[Kfamr]

I feel my adult dogs TimberWolf Organics.
My puppy gets Canine Caviar.
I feed RAW on occasion but haven't been able to lately due to lack of time.

As Borzoimom, I would only feed Hills if I needed it for a prescription diet.

Some kibble brands that I like:
TimberWolf Organics
Canidae
EVO
Solid Gold
Chicken Soup
Blue Buffalo
Californial Natural





<uneccessary jibber-jabber

Seems as if you're the only uncivil person. There is nothing wrong with debating/discussing dog nutrition here. That's the reason is the Dog section, to talk about dogs and dog-related things. :)

[borzoimom]

I love Timberwolf- but we can not get it.. I had to take mine off of raw for a month- they are back on raw now, but did well with the solid gold and bil jac. .. There are several really good ones availble for the same amount of money.. and its not some refuse left over by a people cereal company..

[mr.chiwawa]

Borzoimom, what do you think of the food im feeding my puppy does it sound good? I have tried tons of others and this seems to be the only think that keeps him regular and that he likes. Any input would be appercaited thanks..
PS anyone else feel free to give some input :D

[Kfamr]

I just looked over the ingredients and Life's Abundance seems pretty good - Chicken is the first ingredient, which you want a meat to be the first. Certainly healthier for your pup compared to Science Diet! :)

[borzoimom]

Borzoimom, what do you think of the food im feeding my puppy does it sound good? I have tried tons of others and this seems to be the only think that keeps him regular and that he likes. Any input would be appercaited thanks..
PS anyone else feel free to give some input :D
Not for a chihuahua. I will tell you why.. These little guys have very small teeth and shallow roots. They are prone to teeth decay and the main reason why is that the enemal is very thin on the teeth. With a little dog, ( or puppies is how I got to it) I would feed Bil Jac. If under 4 months old, I would go with the puppy, over 4 months the regular select. It does not scrap the enamel off the teeth and can be fed dry. The by product is organ meat, which is very good for dogs.. Its also over 95 percent digestable- making the stools smaller naturally verses with the use of sodium selenite that backs up in the anal glands.. Any little dog for sure should eat a food that is made this way. It is not extruded, and vacumn cooked. I use this when I have puppies for the same reason. They would not even start raw until 4 months old.. My daughter feeds it to her papillion as well as others I could give you on pm..
I used it for my puppies because it turns to instant mush if wet- try that with your extruded kibble- it takes over 5 minutes for mush. If you add any water to bil jac its mush in a matter of a minute - two at tops. For sake of clean teeth, its the only safe food for little dogs in my opinion. My jack russell ate this and my affenpincher as well.. Not one single tooth did I ever loose in either etc..
And thank you for asking my opinion.. I feel honored to answer your question..

[Giselle]

Nutritional debates exist for all species. It's only natural to try and achieve the optimum for ourselves and for our pets. If "ripping apart just about every brand that is out there" is frowned upon simply because we try to help our dogs live healthier and longer lives, then frown upon me. It's not a crime to help our dogs. Unfortunately, veterinarians and vet techs don't know everything. It's up to pet owners to fill the niche between our dogs and their doctors.

Anyways, if SD works for you, keep it. Heck, I frankly don't care if Ol' Roy works for you. If it gives your dog good health, "don't fix it if it ain't broke". That has always been and always will be the Golden Bottom Line: Use whatever diet that works for you.

However, if SD is not working for you (as it doesn't for some animals) change to a different, hopefully higher quality, diet. The foods Kay mentioned can definitely be considered better than SD. And, no, I'm not just saying this to ruffle feathers, homemade diets (if properly researched and made) can definitely be higher quality than kibble.

[k9friend]

I give my dogs Eagle Pack holistic dry and Merrick's canned. They also get Missing Link and flaxseed oil alternating every other day. Sometimes table scraps mixed with the dry.

[borzoimom]

I give my dogs Eagle Pack holistic dry and Merrick's canned. They also get Missing Link and flaxseed oil alternating every other day. Sometimes table scraps mixed with the dry.
That sounds like a good mix too!!! Very good! ;)

[JenBKR]

Roscoe gets Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul

[ramanth]

Kia was on Canidae Lamb and Rice but since Chipper has a sensitive tummy, I've switched them both to Solid Gold Holistique Blendz supplemented with SeaMeal. I can't put the bowl down fast enough. :rolleyes: :D

[borzoimom]

Good one!

[borzoimom]

Given a cooked bone or even certain raw bones would possibly produce deadly results! I have been feeding raw for 19 years, and none of those bones you said would I consider safe-
and WHAT KIND OF USER name is that??? I reported this to karen to take a look..

[borzoimom]

throw him a frickin bone already, or a big juicy t bone steak.... mmmm steak .... i might go get one now...
Karen- this is bogus and dangerious- please check it out..
**** Posters- this is dangerious to do- please ignore this comment*****!

[buttercup132]

I personally couldnt feed Science Diet to a couple of my dogs, they lost weight and had bad haircoats. but another didnt have any problems with it. That's because Scince Diet is a crappy brand of dog food...that's what it dose to most dogs because it dosent have the right nutrients.

[DrKym]

Well Bmom looks like we have a troll among us! How lovely! I also feed raw so maybe I can throw the troll to them? :D

[borzoimom]

Well Bmom looks like we have a troll among us! How lovely! I also feed raw so maybe I can throw the troll to them? :D
ROFL.. nah- too much acid...

[DrKym]

Darn where did I put the Pupcid A/C????????? looks for it roflmao

[Freedom]

Katrina, you may want to do a little on line research and make some decisions for yourself. In google search, put in dog food ingredients and see what comes up. I just did this in the past 2 weeks. Here are three web sites I looked at (along with many others):

http://www.iei.net/~ebreeden/kibble.html

http://www.doberdogs.com/menu.html

http://www.preciouspets.org/truth.htm

The doberdogs site does have some comparison charts. you could even include comparison charts in your google search.

I guess each of us will have different priorities. Mine included: I wanted a natural food; I never realized some are human grade, others are not until I started reading some of the sites. (I thought none were!) so I wanted human grade. I didn't like the sounds of that "renderings of companion animals" one bit, so I wanted to stay away from THAT.

I decided on Chicken Soul for the Dog / Cat Lover. Their web site helps you find a dealer. The ones closest to me are pet stores, they sell puppies. I don't do business with those stores. And having rescued Sugar from the puppy mill scene, I just couldn't do it. So I kept looking on the list of dealers. I found one near me that doesn't sell puppies; they carry supplies for farms, and livestock. It is a half hour ride, but I am willing to do that. And Sugar LOVES the smells in the store!

After finding out which dog food I was going to use for the new arrival, then I reconsidered what I am giving my cats. I have owned cats for 12 years, and they have always been on SD. No longer. Switched them over too. Many of the same reasons applied.

Hope this gives you a few ideas how to make your choice!

[borzoimom]

Chicken soup is a good one with" fit for human consumption" ingredients.

[caseysmom]

muoahahahahahaaaa i am the evil trolll from under your beds at night, i will poison all your animals with my bones and t bone steaks RARRRRRR!!

How mature of you...please pat yourself on the back.

[DrKym]

Oh my, and here just when I thought it was safe to sleep at night... it is nice to see that some children are not allowed on parental comps for a reason. This would be the reason. Sigh :rolleyes:

[buttercup132]

Guys why are you replying back to it?

I think we have all been on here long enough to know by now that talking to them and giving them somthing to reply back to is just going to make them want to bug us more. It's probly just some little kid who is bored , who knows who cares just IGNORE it I'm sure Karen will deal with it soon.

[GreyhoundGirl]

I think it's the one from Gabbly, seems to have the same stupid intentions. :rolleyes: Some people need to get a life. Don't worry, Michelle, no one will listen to its comments. We know better. :)

[caseysmom]

Your right of course. I just can't understand someone coming here with nothing to contribute just to cause trouble...when someone genuinly comes asking for advice and to give advice that could cause harm is just disgusting.

[borzoimom]

I think it's the one from Gabbly, seems to have the same stupid intentions. :rolleyes: Some people need to get a life. Don't worry, Michelle, no one will listen to its comments. We know better. :)
Whew! Thank you!!!

[buttercup132]

Oh boy http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/eek.gif , yet another dog food war about to start! http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/rolleyes.gif http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/rolleyes.gif

c'mon guys get it all out there;

rip apart just about every brand out there that isn't found by driving 50 miles or online ordering or making it yourself.

get into a debate over kibble vs. raw

throw in a few digs at Wally's World for fun,

get into a huge scientific debate over corn & by-products

And in the end everyone is either peeved or confused.

*sigh*

same old, same old http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/frown.gif

Bet this thread takes at least 2 weeks to slow down and finishes with about 4 pages minimum. http://petoftheday.com/i/our_smilies/wink.gif
What a nice , positive outlook on PT..
I belive the Dog Health section is made to DISCUSS things like this.

[wolfsoul]

I feed a raw diet, and love it! :) I fed alot of kibbles but never found anything that did so well for my dog as raw does.

I wouldn't use Science Diet, personally -- low quality ingredients -- but alot of dogs nowadays are getting more and more used to low quality ingredients and grains that are difficult to digest. It's more the chemical components of SD that are scary -- ingredients like ethoxyquin, BHT and BHA, are considered carcinogenic and dangerous, and have been linked to problems such as cancer, epilepsy, stillbirth, birth defects, etc. Even if a dog does well on a food like this -- my motto is still "prevention is the key!" :)

Kay gave a great list of dog foods, foods that I would use if I wasn't feeding raw. But just do whatever is best for you -- every dog is different and has different tastes.

I also don't feed puppy food, I think it's a big marketing scam and dangerous to the pup's health.

[borzoimom]

My guys have coats that gleam, wonderful muscle, and healthier all the way around. The only one of mine with problems is Hottie- and his is due to his broken growth plate being put in a cast as a puppy. However- they said at 2 years old he would not make 5- as stated before - he is 9 now! I credit that to his diet...

[Catlady711]

What a nice , positive outlook on PT..
I belive the Dog Health section is made to DISCUSS things like this.

I'd probably have a more positive outlook if things didn't normally get so heated on this particular topic, although I'll admit it's been tame thus far.

Basically I just get a little peeved when people think that all vets/techs don't know anything about nutrition because they sell pet food. Not all vets push a particular pet food, nor do all of them sell it. Not all vets/techs are ignorant of pet nutrition.

Our particular hospital ONLY sells prescription foods, and we never make a recommendation of any one particular food, we do not receive any 'perks' from selling/pushing any particular brand, and our greatest interest is not only in the pets being fed a nutritional food, but also foods that the majority of our clients are willing to buy (due to price or availability). A food could be the best thing on the planet, however if our clients cannot find, afford, or choose to spend the $$ on the super premium foods, then it's counterproductive to 'push' one of those foods since the client is not going to do it anyways, which makes us look like we stand to profit from the sale of said foods.

As for someone truely wanting to know about pet nutrition here is a website called petDIETS.com (http://www.petdiets.com/default.asp?Menu=FAQs&PageName=/faqs/default.asp) an independent agency (not supported by pet food/supplement companies) specifically trained as a pet nutritionist with a chunk of credentials in the field. If someone were truely interested in pet nutrition I'd highly recommend her website. There is a TON of info on it.


Founder Rebecca Remillard, Ph.D., D.V.M., DACVN

EDUCATION DIPLOMATE of the AMERICAN COLLEGE of VETERINARY NUTRITION, September 1991, Board certified in Comparative (Large and Small Animal) Veterinary Nutrition. DOCTORATE of VETERINARY MEDICINE, May 1987, Tufts University, School of Veterinary Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts. DOCTORATE of PHILOSOPHY, Animal Science - Nutrition, May 1983, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado. MASTERS DEGREE of SCIENCE, Animal Science - Nutrition, August 1978, University of Maine, Orono, Maine. BACHELORS DEGREE of SCIENCE, Animal Science, May 1976, Purdue University, W.Lafayette, Indiana. PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE VETERINARY NUTRITONAL CONSULTATIONS, inc: President and founder of a company providing individualized pet nutritionally consultations to veterinarians and owners. MSPCA ANGELL ANIMAL MEDICAL CENTER: 3/93 - present as Staff Veterinarian - Clinical Nutritionist for an urban referral hospital serving approximately 50,000 dog and cat cases annually. POSTDOCTORAL SURGICAL FELLOW: 4/91 - 2/93 at Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine researching parenteral nutrition induced gastrointestinal atrophy and mitogenic factors in enteral feeding diets using monogastric species. CLINICAL NUTRITION RESIDENCY: 7/87 - 8/90 at Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine.

[Kfamr]

I don't believe anyone's ever said that ALL vets/tech don't know anything about nutrition. The fact is, a lot don't. My vet didn't even know HALF of the organic/all natural dog foods when we spoke about foods one day. He knew Science Diet, Iams, etc.

A local vet sells pre-packaged raw. If I could afford to bring all of my dogs there, I would. However, I can't. So, I research and research to pick up the slack of my vet's lack of dog nutrition knowledge.

My favorite dog nutrition site...

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

She is amazingly knowledgeable when it comes to nutrition, foods, etc. There is tons of wonderful information given.

[borzoimom]

Catlady-
Our vet sells perscription diets, will discuss foods with people, but also supports my feeding raw. They even seem to have grown in the learning processing of feeding raw. Three of the 7 feed raw now, and also report improvements to me as a form of a compliment or question. They have a huge office type complex- with alot of state of the art equipment- and I am sure this takes money to run. However- I have yet to receive information or suggestions that are based on anything else- other than the health of my dogs. I trust my vet to the point that I do not take HOttie out of the county. Iwant him near by as I only want this series of vets to be my "dogs doctor"..
Obviously I believe a raw diet is the best-HOWEVER- a raw diet done half committed on the owners part for either time or physical reasons, is better left NOT done at all. To me, having done this for 19 years, its not hard for me- and automatic. Automatic to the point that when I had to go to a different diet last month- I felt like I wasnt doing the best I could for them- and of course- they were fine.. With 4 huge dogs, its also cheaper for me to do, to buy the groceries than it would be to feed these 4 on a good "commerical" diet.
Kay- those logs are expensive! 30 pounds of canine cravings is 55 dollars- but still cheaper than say some of the other higher grade diets. I use grocery food, and make the same type of receipes if you even want to try my method.. It costs me basically 70 cents a pound to do this way- verses any good "commercial diet " ( including bil jac or solid gold, timberwolf etc) that is over a dollar a pound. You seem set and confident in what you are feeding, but if you want to know how I feed, I will be happy to tell you..

[Catlady711]

I don't believe anyone's ever said that ALL vets/tech don't know anything about nutrition. The fact is, a lot don't. My vet didn't even know HALF of the organic/all natural dog foods when we spoke about foods one day. He knew Science Diet, Iams, etc.



I may just be fortunate enough to work for a hospital that isn't into trying to make a profit from the sale of dog food. From what I've heard from many of our new clients, it seems to be common at other vets to 'push' a particular brand for profit, and toys and try to compete with the pet stores.

However it's comments like this one earlier in the thread....


Unfortunately, veterinarians and vet techs don't know everything. It's up to pet owners to fill the niche between our dogs and their doctors.

and others far worse I've seen in other threads that seem to generalize that ALL vets/techs know nothing about pet nutrition. If I worked for one of those 'push the dog food brand XYZ' type of hospitals I'd probably not be quite so bristly about it.

If our vets are unfamiliar with a particuar brand a client is using they ask to see the label and look at not only the ingredients but the % of things in it to determine if it's a good food or a lousy one on a case by case basis for that particular dog and it's health needs. If we find a particularly good one they usually ask where the client about where they got it and how much it cost in case they want to refer it to another client.

[ramanth]

Well I must say that I love my vet and the staff. They are very knowlegable about diets and do not sell any food at their office other than prescription diets.

And they are confident enough in themselves to know if that can't treat something to send their clients to MSU. Which they've done with me twice now. I know they wish they could help, but they are not about to risk the life of my pets trying to fix a problem they know they can't. :)

I understand such a blanket comment could make you upset, but please don't judge the whole board or certain threads by one members opinion. :)

[bckrazy]

Catlady, my Vet is awesome! They sell Wellness, Solid Gold, Evo & pre-made Raw, and he is happy to give me Raw advice. I went through 4 other Vets before finding him... all except for 1 pretty much shunned me for even suggesting feeding Raw, and pushed Eukanuba & SD & Iams instead. Not ALL Vets are poorly educated about nutrition, but unforunately many are, and prefer to give "safe" advice & push popular, lower quality kibble. In a way, I do understand why many of them do it, but nothing is going to change until more Vets at least try to recommend premium kibble. My friends stepmom has been a tech for years & years... she didn't even know what Evo, Solid Gold, etc, is. She feeds her animals Iams & SD, and although 2 of them are quite unhealthy, she refuses to even consider feeding them something better.

"It costs me basically 70 cents a pound to do this way- verses any good "commercial diet " ( including bil jac or solid gold, timberwolf etc) that is over a dollar a pound."

I pay about the same per lb for Raw all together... however, because of the moisture content, feeding 1 lb of Raw is very different than feeding 1 lb of kibble. ;] I paid about $2 per lb for Evo, and although in the long-run I do pay more for Raw, it's absolutely worth it if I factor in the cost of daily greenies/chews/teeth cleaning/supplements/etc. Plus my two (especially Gonzo) are phenominally healthy.

[Catlady711]

I understand such a blanket comment could make you upset, but please don't judge the whole board or certain threads by one members opinion. :)

Thank you. I will try to keep that in mind next time I see a post like that. :)

[wolfsoul]

My vet is great, in fact we just went to see her today! She sells a tons of different premade raw diets, Innova, Timberwolf Organics, Canidae, etc. She will educate anyone that feeds foods with bad ingredients, but won't push her own foods on them -- in fact she will recommend foods she doesn't carry. Most of her clients feed raw anyways.

[borzoimom]

I love mine also.
The comment about moisture content on "logs" is correct. I make my own diets- proven over years and it works..

[mike001]

Have fed raw for years and have healthy dogs with no health problems. I'm not a kibble person. If I was to feed kibble I would probably go with Chicken Soup or Royal Canin.

[CathyBogart]

I told my vet I feed Jasper raw and she said "ooh, lucky boy", and moved on. :) We have switched to only a few raw meals a week since then, and I give him Nature's Variety kibble or canned depending on his/my mood at mealtime when he's not eating meat.

[dragondawg]

I'd probably have a more positive outlook if things didn't normally get so heated on this particular topic, although I'll admit it's been tame thus far.

Tame, because most of us have given up on the religion threads.


Basically I just get a little peeved when people think that all vets/techs don't know anything about nutrition because they sell pet food. Not all vets push a particular pet food, nor do all of them sell it. Not all vets/techs are ignorant of pet nutrition.

Never had a need to ask them, and never received any sales pitches. Perfect symbiosis. Vet Techs are harmless critters. The receptionists are the evil ones. ;)


As for someone truely wanting to know about pet nutrition here is a website called petDIETS.com (http://www.petdiets.com/default.asp?Menu=FAQs&PageName=/faqs/default.asp) an independent agency (not supported by pet food/supplement companies) specifically trained as a pet nutritionist with a chunk of credentials in the field. If someone were truely interested in pet nutrition I'd highly recommend her website. There is a TON of info on it.

Now that's a good reference link. But what they said about the dangers of a raw-Barf like diet! Shame on em! LOL

On a quick first pass, about the only thing I found to disagree on is the idea of dry not resulting with less tartar build up as opposed to moist food. Although over all it's just as much genetics as anything else, and that might be their concealed point. Again a very good site.