Redirected Dog Aggression

[Rose G]

I've been reading something similar to what my dog's problem is, however, Benny's problem is different because not only does he bark and snarl at other dogs, if he is restrained from the dog he wants to get at, he will turn around and bite the nearest thing to him; i.e. his leash, a carpet nearby, a pant leg, etc....does anyone have any suggestions? It's a disturbing prospect because I fear he will inadvertantly end up biting me or someone else if he sets his sight on a strange dog and nothing else is near to him besides my leg!

[borzoimom]

This is called misplaced aggression. Same thing as someone comes to the door- the dog cant get at the intruder, and snaps at the owner as they open the door. Knowing the triggers help. I had a dane that would snap at another dog that came up behind like " NO- THIS IS MINE to take care of. ".. How I solved it was I had door aggression. I put her on a lead- with a wire muzzle. have someone come to the door.Without another dog present, I put the dog in a sit, then stay- opened the door. I drilled this for like two weeks. Then finally allowed another dog in this training exercise- still with her muzzled and on a lead. As she turned to snap at the other dog, I firmly but not a shout to raise the aggression level, said " No- Sit.". Sit put the control back to me. It takes consistancy, and drill. Put the dog in the sit prior to the total off set- like the glance backwards towards the other dog.. Or as someone leaves the house- etc.

[DrKym]

Bmom? a question related to that, My kids are fine with the door agression was a snap to fix (and yes hehe used almost the same training method) however the cocker went from wanting to snap or nip to continual barking when someone knocks or comes in, we have tried EVERYTHING! Has this happened to you or anyone else? if so what did you do to break the habit?
:rolleyes: Going deaf here! :D

[borzoimom]

The sit method works as well.. You do not open the door until quiet.. This needs to drill, and remember to keep calm. Your excitement of " who is at the door, wow get the door- .." etc will make it worse..

[mike001]

I always used a faster method. If done properly once you won't need repeats. Attend a training class with your dog and speak to the trainer. The quickest method to resolve this is with a prong collar and when the dog lunges or attacks you lift him off the ground swiftly with a good snap and hold for a few seconds then release and tell the dog to sit. You have to know how to use the prong collar the right way so as not to harm your dog, this is why I advised seeking a good training class.

[Taz_Zoee]

How bout the flat out ignoring the dog approach? I am trying that with Zoee when she barks for no reason (well her reason is an animal on TV or a sound that sounds like an animal). It's very difficult to do, but we are attempting it.

[DrKym]

K, we have tried the collar (have raised and trained Rotties all my life, so very comfortable working with it) Tried the ignoring it she kept barking for 5 hours til her voice gave out. We do not make a fuss over the door, as I own a business people come in and out often and there is no excitement over it. We have tried the sit method so she now sits and barks. We have contacted a behavorist who advised a spray bottle of water, which she LOVED. and yes I have already worked with a can with pennies, and also crating her. Like I said I am way out of ideas or methods. So any other advice will be gladly accepted! (thought about sending her to siberia but her Dad says she will think it is a vacation!) :rolleyes:

[mike001]

Ignoring will not make the problem disappear, but it might make it worse. Wouldn't you prefer that your dog be 100% trained for this in case it gets you into trouble someday?

[DrKym]

Mike I have tried everything I have ever knew or heard about to break her continual barking. including not responding to it so that she didn't miscontrue correction with attention, (which she isn't lacking btw) the point is WE ARE trying to train her out of it. Which is why I am resourceing those that know best my friends here at PT. :D

[borzoimom]

Mike I have tried everything I have ever knew or heard about to break her continual barking. including not responding to it so that she didn't miscontrue correction with attention, (which she isn't lacking btw) the point is WE ARE trying to train her out of it. Which is why I am resourceing those that know best my friends here at PT. :D
I have found this method to work.. Barking to defend is a natural trait in shepherds, but something that has to be controlled- same with other breeds. Giving them something else to do that is in compliance, they get praised for sitting and staying quiet, is better than the harsh treatment of a prong collar. Also- if you do not have a collar on the dog may not listen. This method teaches a pattern on how to respond PROPERLY..

[lizbud]

I always used a faster method. If done properly once you won't need repeats. Attend a training class with your dog and speak to the trainer. The quickest method to resolve this is with a prong collar and when the dog lunges or attacks you lift him off the ground swiftly with a good snap and hold for a few seconds then release and tell the dog to sit. You have to know how to use the prong collar the right way so as not to harm your dog, this is why I advised seeking a good training class.


I would never recommend "hanging" any dog as a form of correction.Never.
To much chance of severely injuring your dog.And it's not necessary.

Redirected aggression is strongly related to Dominance Agression and can
be changed by similar methods. A pretty good explanation of the many types
of dog aggression.

http://www.dogsites.com.au/internet_library/understanding_aggression.html



Maybe you could give a brief summary of your dog's personality in other
situations?

[DrKym]

Well let's see, she is extremely attached to me, is fine with immediate family members, completely untrutworthy around younger kids, loves the dobes and the cats. Has separation issues, food and toy issues with the other dogs, but not people. As for the redirect of giving her something else to do to earn praise etc. we have done this, we have been working on this behaviour issue for close to 9 months now, we have engaged a behaviorist from the vets bulletin board, she is amazing on command work sit stay down come etc. It is the incessant barking she does when anyone comes in the door, or to the door. She will do this when our son comes home from school, when a client enters the business door , the mail comes in, Dad comes in from the laundry room.
We have to date used every method that I know of and btw we never hung her by the collar , we use a prong on her for a quick check correction she doesn't even pay attention to it, we have tried using my husband to redirect and engage her in an approriate activity, cans with rattles, water spray, we passed on the shock collar reccomendation from the local trainer,

She is right there to see the Dobes and how they react, I think Rusty and Sequoia think she is a bit bizarre as they will bark and when told " Ok that it thanks" they go lie down. Sequoia had a bit of a charging issue at the house door but quickly retrained out of it (less than a week) so we are not only frustrated but truly at a loss, her vet has broached daily meds (doggie downers) but I would much rather exhaust everything I can before committing her to daily Puppy Prozac. :confused:

[borzoimom]

use the sit method- drill it.. and its a positive which will help the dog relax and more willing to comply. The dog thinks when people are around, they will be corrected- more worried then- this reverses that cyle.. Deflates the situation..

[Rose G]

I just want to clarify that our dog "Benny" a beagle, is now redirecting his aggression at not being able to get at a dog he is barking at and consequently will turn and bite my pant leg or the leash or whatever is next to him at the time. It is very disturbing to watch and I was wondering if anyone out there has ever known a dog like this or know what I could do about this problem?

[mike001]

I wasn't advocating hanging the dog, you lift it off its feet hold and swing in a 90o circle so it has to come to a sit.
The dog seems to have a lot of issues to deal with, but the aggression is something to worry about since you mention he doesn't like kids.
Could you ty keeping her tied to your waist and make sure she is under your control at all times? Sounds like she doesn't see you as the Alpha and she is taking over.
I would go back to training classes with her and make sure she understands you are the alpha. A trainer would be a big help to you.

[Catty1]

Dr Goodnow....A muzzle? For a while, til she gets it?

And I hate to even MENTION this, but I have heard it is only a 'weak' shock...the electrical collars that give a slight shock when the dog barks?

PLEASE don't flame me, anyone, I would NEVER hurt an animal and I don't know much about this type of collar, or if it even exists or if it is legal. Both that and the muzzle I thought of as TEMPORARY.

If it's gonna hurt, don't use it!

[Taz_Zoee]

I just want to clarify that our dog "Benny" a beagle, is now redirecting his aggression at not being able to get at a dog he is barking at and consequently will turn and bite my pant leg or the leash or whatever is next to him at the time. It is very disturbing to watch and I was wondering if anyone out there has ever known a dog like this or know what I could do about this problem?

Back to the main topic here. I am by no means an expert, but if he was not restrained from the strange dog would he attack it?
And what about some sort of muzzle or something so he cannot bite anyone or anything? I mean only to use while training him, not as a long term solution. I personally don't like muzzles, but I would think if used correctly it could be a good training device and it will keep everyone involved safe.

Hee hee, just realized Catty1 and I were responding at the same time.:) My response was directed at the original poster, but I guess it could go for both.

[BOBS DAD]

Ok.. Back Off The Topic. My Fil Has Always Had Cockers. Has Had 4 Since I Married My Wife. They Were All Barkers... And Always Barked At Doors When Someone Came To Them. They Tried Puppy Trainers, Behaviorists, Etc... Nothing Helped. Just Resigned To The Behavior.

Also, They Never Liked The Little Kids Either. Always Had To Watch The Little Ones When They Were Around Them. They Could Snap At Them If They Pulled There Ears Or Such.

[Taz_Zoee]

Ok.. Back Off The Topic. My Fil Has Always Had Cockers. Has Had 4 Since I Married My Wife. They Were All Barkers... And Always Barked At Doors When Someone Came To Them. They Tried Puppy Trainers, Behaviorists, Etc... Nothing Helped. Just Resigned To The Behavior.

Also, They Never Liked The Little Kids Either. Always Had To Watch The Little Ones When They Were Around Them. They Could Snap At Them If They Pulled There Ears Or Such.

Our Cocker was nothing like that. He was not an excessive barker and NEVER attempted to bite ANYONE. I have heard that Cockers can be like that, but we were lucky with our DJ. :)

[DrKym]

Thanks Catty and I would never flame you! however the shock collar is out, we have the invisible fencing and the Dobes learned fast with a very mild buzz. Goofy pays no attention to it , muzzling although I have no issue with them on a biter, or vet visits (which she is muzzled for) doesn't stop vocalization just stops them from being able to bite while wearing one.

Bobs Dad THANK YOU, our rescue cocker years ago had none of these issues, but this girl was a show dog we have had her since 9 weeks so I know it isn't a past family thing, my concern is as she gets older her behaviour becomes more bizarre, the barking though is truly unbelievable. As stated in an way earlier thread, she electrocuted herself with a cord while at day care back in may we nearly lost her, but I swear it fried brain cells as she really hasn't been the same, Jasper is seriously considering the option of debarking and needless to say that is a hot issue in this house. I can see his point though , as it makes work rather difficult. Her other antisocial behaviours can be worked around but I have looked everywhere and cannot find the battery compartment to her barking! :rolleyes: I truly do appreciate the advice and I we are working on it, but I am seeing puppy prozac looming, :( .

[buttercup132]

I always used a faster method. If done properly once you won't need repeats. Attend a training class with your dog and speak to the trainer. The quickest method to resolve this is with a prong collar and when the dog lunges or attacks you lift him off the ground swiftly with a good snap and hold for a few seconds then release and tell the dog to sit. You have to know how to use the prong collar the right way so as not to harm your dog, this is why I advised seeking a good training class And by doing that you could choke th dog, or break it's neck. There are much more HUMANE ways to fix the problem.

[bugmom]

I read through the entire string - i have barker too so i hear your pain! - i'm wondering though, when does your dog stop barking? what triggers that time? does the barking continue non stop until sleep time? does the dog stop once you touch the dog? what is the reaction to you or the person at the door when the dog is touched (petted or just laying a hand on the head to say "i'm here with you"). Will the dog come to a person that is way from the door and thus distracting the dog into another area of the room?

just ponderings that may help with a solution.....

[DrKym]

Bugmom, she will bark until she can't anymore. after 9 months of this and serious work with behaviourists and our vet we started her on Monday with a drug therapy. It has only been 2 days, so we will see how that works. She has more issues than Newsweek, but we are doing everything we can to find balance for her in a very unbalanced mind.