Teaching a dog to play!

[Karen]

The situation is this:

My boss has a Sheltie, who is very timid. He has never been abused, came straight from his momma to his current owners, went to all kinds of training, but is *very* timid around other animals.

Recently a co-worker got a rescue poodle who LOVES to play. He's 2 years old, but tiny, so size is not a threating. He has tried several times to play with the Sheltie, but the Sheltie just hides - literally under me, under my chair or behind my skirt. The most he reacted was barking and growling, but not in a playful manner.

How can we teach the Sheltie to play? He just doesn't get that he could play with this other dog! He will play with people, sometimes. He will always play, actually, with Paul, but with the rest of us it's just sporadically. Sometimes we throw his ball and he goes nuts, other times he just looks at us!

The poodle gets very sad, by the way, when the Sheltie doesn't play. The humans play with the poodle, but it's just not the same! :(

[Nomilynn]

That is a really interesting story! My parents have two shelties. One of them LOVES to play, and the other wants to play, but doesn't know how, so he stands and watches the first one playing barking the whole time. But it's fun for him.

Maybe first you would get the two dogs to get along? Like do something calm with them, like petting, or feeding them treats together, or putting their bowls near by, and make them more comfortable with each other. Maybe once Sheltie knows Poodle he will want to play?

I've never met a dog who didn't want to play.. sorry I can't be more help! :confused:

[Karen]

Huh - maybe it's a Sheltie thing! He's definitely intimidated by the poor poodle, who is the least aggressive, funniest, bounciest little guy. They do get treats together, share a water bowl - at the office, they "live" separately, just "work" together.

[zippy-kat]

>>dogs at work?? how fun!!<<

this is a toughy--do they have the basic obedience commands down? Maybe having them go through a series of commands together would sort of build up a team. Maybe groom them together too? (maybe just a brushin'--couldn't stir up *that* much hair in the office could it? lol)

Shelties are such funny little doggies--my old clarinet instructor had two--one went crazy over the word "oboe" and the other "bassoon." Apparently, the dogs were listening in on a conversation one day and when one heard bassoon he started barking/howling...and the other did the same thing but with "oboe." lol

[Dixieland Dancer]

How old is the Sheltie? Was it ever socialized as a pup? Going to obedience classes but not being allowed to play with the other pups does not count. Do you know how many pups were in the Shelties litter and what age was the dog taken from mom?

I have some ideas but need more info.

[Karen]

The Sheltie was 8 1/2 weeks old when it was taken away from its mom. I don't know how many other pups were in his litter, but he was one of at least three - I think more, but don't remember. Attempts have been made his whole life to socialize him, but at the obedience classes, and every other time he was with lots of dogs, or any other dogs, actually, he would cower behind his owner, not interacting with the other dogs at all.

He is almost 4, I think, maybe 5. When he first came to live with his owners, they had another Sheltie, who was quite old (14), nearly deaf, and didn't really play ever, anyway. He will chase and torment the cat, which the Sheltie regards as playing, but the cat does not - he puts up with it for a minute or so, then just leaps up where the dog can't "get" him. But the Sheltie is much loved, despite his neurosis, and has a whole office of people who love him and pet him. But the poodle soooo wants to play! Poor poodle just doesn't understand why the Sheltie doesn't get it!

[Dixieland Dancer]

One last question... Does the Sheltie play with humans any games such as fetch, tug, hide and seek or any other kind of fun interactive activity?

[mel55smiles]

THE BEST THING I CAN THINK OF IS TO START PLAYING WITH HIM JUST A LIL, SO HE GETS AN IDEA, AND START HIM OFF BY LETTING HIM PLAY WITH A LESS LESS PLAYFUL DOG THAN THE POODLE SO HE'LL LEARN AND HTEN START PLAYING WITH HIM MORE AND MORE AND THEN SEE IF HE PLAYS WITH THE POODLE

[Karen]

He will sometimes fetch, not too reliably, and not for long. He WILL play tug-of-war, obsessively, with Paul. I do not play tug of war with him much, as he gets so wound up he nearly took my thumb off one day - thankfully, he chomped on the thumbnail, so didn't break the skin - and didn't realize why I yelled "Ow!" He doesn't play hide and seek, we used to play with a big bouncy ball with him, until it died, he'd bounce it off his nose and back toward us. His owners didn't approve of that too much - he'd get very very barky, and they worried about the people in the office below! :)

The poodle, by way, doesn't seem to know "fetch" either. We got a small soft ball the Sheltie sometimes will play with, had both dogs in the room doing "sit." I threw the ball, and said "Go get it!" The dogs looked at me like I was insane, and walked away!:rolleyes:

[Fuzzy317]

When we first got our puppy (Ginger) our alpha dog (Eli) did not play with her. She was less than 20 pounds, while he was over 80 pounds. I am not sure, but I think our Eli wasn't sure how to play with her, I think he might have thought he would hurt her. Now that Ginger is a little older, and close at least 30 pounds, he and Ginger do play at times. Eli will lay on his back, and wrestle with her. He is a great dog.

[Dixieland Dancer]

I believe what is happening is the Sheltie really doesn't know how to interact with other dogs. I know you are probably saying NO JOKE, we already know that! The problem originated when the sheltie was a baby. The most critical time in a pups socialization with other dogs is between 4 and 16 weeks. I am guessing that this pup was originally quite aggressive in play in the whelping box. The other pups probably put him in his place one time when he was too aggressive and he developed a fear. At this point the other pups concentrated on play with the others in the litter because he wanted to avoid getting beat up. I judge this by your comment that he got so wound up that he almost took your thumb off. In the whelping box, when one pup doesn't learn to be easy the others will not play with him. I had this happen to a little golden girl in our litter.

When this does occur the new owners need to be aware of it and told up front. Two things can occur after the new owners take the dog home. 1. The dog becomes very timid for fear that no one wants to play or 2. the pup becomes so dominant in the new territory that no one else is allowed to enter.

New owners need to realize that there is a short window of opportunity here for helping the pup get over this situation. And by the way.... when a breeder realizes this is happening in the whelping box, they should place the pup before 8 weeks or work specifically to teach the pup how to interact with the rest of the litter. This is the only situation where I would recommend the dog be placed before 8 weeks since the longer it continues the worse it is for the pup in the long run if the breeder doesn't recognize it. We had to work diligently with our little girl and made sure the new owners knew of the situation so they could continue to help her. She is a very confident dog today around all other dogs except a couple of her littermates. When she came over for their birthday party she showed a timid side that the owner said she never sees anywhere else. Dogs have a very long memory!

Well none of this helps you now since the sheltie is older. Just trying to get you to understand why the dog may be this way. Basically the prime window of opportunity passed a long time ago. Another point to realize that the older sheltie who was 14 didn't reinforce any play with pup so he actually has two strikes against him. Poor fellow!

But there is possible conditioning that can occur to perhaps help the sheltie to understand play. The owners will need to realize this will take a lot of counter conditioning if this is something they really want to occur. Perhaps they are happy with the way things are and could care less if their dog plays with the Poodle.

Some things to try. If the dogs have reign in the entire office, try putting them together in a closed off area. X-pens offer great space confinement. By being together in close quarters they will learn that they are the same species and are both favored the same since they are both confined to a smaller space. Leave some Jolly balls or tug ropes in the area for the dogs to play with. Not taking the dogs out of the area play tug or fetch with each one. If one doesn't want to play, play with the other. After a few days you can take a tug rope and put it in each of the dogs mouths and let them start tugging. It may be something they need to learn to do so be patient. Tug is the best game for two pups to play together.

Basically these two need to minimize human intervention and realize they are both in the same boat and need to rely on each other for company. They need to deveope their own rules on being together. This may be something the owners want to achieve or it may be something they just want to say "forget it". They may be comfortable with their pup the way it is. After all this is just a work situation and not a situation where these two dogs are together all the time.

I have to be honest, at this point if the sheltie were my dog, I wouldn't worry about it. The poodle would just have to adjust. After all the sheltie is in mid life and this may end up putting additional stress on him. While it would be nice to see him play with another dog, at this point in life is it really necessary? Only the owner can determine this for sure. But if they do, then start with putting them together in the confined space and letting them adjust to each other. More so the Sheltie than the Poodle.

Sorry this was so long!

[Aspen and Misty]

Our Sheltie, Teddy Bear, NEVER plays with other dogs. He is very Proper. He was trained to be a show dog and so he acts like one and you can't have a show dog playing with other dogs. He wil chase cats nadother furry creatures. And he is a big help when myrats get loose cause he will round them up for you. Wehn we got Chewy he would jump up on teddy and teddy woudl then bite at him to put him in his place. Eventualy Teddy foudn this was a game to the puppy. Teddy now herdsthe puppy and the puppy herds teddy. And they will play with each other. Now Teddy our 10 year old Sheltie ahs never palyed with another dog untill Chewy, so give the Sheltie some time maybe he will come around.

Ashley and Teddy

[ChrisAK]

Try finding something that makes her tick. My rescued female was very much the same thing at 4 years. She wouldn't chase anything. My male is a ball hound. We finally found a toy that made her excited and now take both toys to the park.

It will take some time, but it will come around. You just have to experiment with things.

Few things to try:
Plastic soda bottle with kibble in it (rattle).
Frizbees that are made for pools.
Hide and seek with her.
Tie a rope to a tennis ball and drag around the house.

[Karen]

The Sheltie is beginning finally to learn to play with the poodle. This generally consists of the poodle barking and running, and the Sheltie attempting to herd it. The Sheltie will play with PEOPLE< it always has, it just didn't know how to play with another dog.

Attempts have been made to get them to play tug of war together - one drops his end as soon as he realizes the other dog has it. They will sometimes chase the same toy, but the Sheltie usually will just stand there and let the poodle get it.

But the Sheltie IS learning ... kinda ...

[Cincy'sMom]

Glad to hear the Sheltie is coming around.


My first dog, Oreo is a 12 1/2 yr old beagle poodle mix and last summer when my parents got Dazzi, a 1 1/2 yr old Golen mix she Oreo was clueless how to play. Finally she figured it out (Sorta) and they do occasionally play tug. Here is a pic:

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid19/p03aa9b997a96003041359a2c79cd39ec/fdc490f6.jpg

Now that taggert (6month terrier mix) is around, Oreo is confused again..she has never livd with a puppy before! She went into hiding for ahile, but is getting better and chasing Dazzi again!

[Pam]

Karen I think the advice so far has been excellent and I think in time the sheltie and the poodle might "come around." What size is the poodle--toy, miniature or standard? I am picturing the poodle being a toy and perhaps just a "little annoying thing" to the sheltie right now. :) As you know I have had all 3 sizes and those little guys are just bundles of fun and a sheltie that has lived with an older dog might find all of their energy a bit too much at first.

My neighbor had a sheltie who was extremely shy. She had told me that it was a trait of the breed, although I do believe that environment plays an equal part, even if that is so. I just got some info from a dog breed website that I frequently visit. Here's what it said about shelties:

The Shetland Sheepdog is an outstanding companion dog with a delightful temperament. Gentle, sensitive, loyal and dainty. Very lively, intelligent and trainable. The Shetland Sheepdog is one to the smartest breeds, very willing to please and obey. These dogs are so smart that many fanciers consider them to have almost human intelligence. Loving, loyal and affectionate with its family, but suspicious with strangers, especially with children, but they will put up with a lot from children in the family. The Sheltie is known to not allow themselves to be touched by strangers and will display noisy persistent barking. It is a good guard and watchdog. Socialize extensively as a puppy. This breed needs people and must be raised in a home where he can have a lot of companionship.

It may still at this point consider the poodle a stranger. I think it might take a little work to get the two to seek each other out in play but hopefully in time they will do just that. I remember Leslie's Graham and her pug, Cassie, didn't play and there wasn't much she could do about it although she tried. I guess dogs, like humans, have their own personalities and sometimes just don't "click." Please keep us up to date on the progress of these two.

[Karen]

The poodle is miniature, smaller than the sheltie, but not too much smaller, if you discount the Sheltie's added size that's all fur!

[AdoreMyDogs]

Thanks to Pam I found this thread, otherwise I would have missed it. Thanks Pam :)

Graham and Cassie were together for close to a year and not once did they play. They also see each other about 2-3 times a week and they acknowledge each others' presence but that's about it. After over 2 years of knowing each other they still don't play. I think Graham tried playing a few times but Cassie was very unreceptive to the idea. She really didn't have the desire. Since my mom got Ritz, who is an active, playful little 14 month old shih tzu, she has played with him very, very little. Occationally Ritzie will pester her to no end and she'll eventually blow up and growl and chase Ritz away aggressively. But for the most part she's so tolerant of Ritz attempting to get her to play.

Cassie is just not playful with other dogs and there was little I could do about it. I was told to "wait it out" and that they will eventually play, but it never happened. I just accepted that and stoped trying to get them to play. I took Graham to the dog park when he really wanted another dog to play with. I just don't think Cassie is the playful type, regardless of how wonderful of a play partner Graham, Ritz or Kersey are. She's content watching Kersey play with Ritz and Graham play with Kersey.

I think that it's always nice when dogs play, but it's ok when they don't. The young fella will learn that his brother is not the most playful pup, and he'll use a bit more descression with his attempts at forcing play upon the sheltie. As long as they aren't fighting, their relationship being a non-playful one is still healthy I think. Cassie is a very happy dog. As is Ritz, even though he knows that he can't play with her. As is and was Graham when he lived with her and was unable to ger her to play.

I would suggest taking the little poodle to a play group or doggie daycare as often as possible so he is able to play with other dogs, stay socialized, and get some of his pent up energy out, so he's more wiped out when he's around the sheltie. That's what I did with Graham and that's what my mom does with Ritz so he can get a chance to play with other dogs like he so much enjoys to do.

They may also eventually start playing, but if the sheltie is anything like Cassie, it's not going to happen. I think dogs are great company to each other regardless of if they play or not.

I hope this helps :) I sure do wish I could see those dogs, especially that little poodle :)

[Karen]

The two dogs don't live together, they just go to work at the same office, the poodle just comes two days a week. So it's not like there's constant interaction, anyway. The humans in the office do play with the dogs, I try to play with the poodle a lot when he first gets there if I can, to tucker him out a little.

[Pam]

Originally posted by Karen
The two dogs don't live together, they just go to work at the same office, the poodle just comes two days a week. So it's not like there's constant interaction, anyway. The humans in the office do play with the dogs, I try to play with the poodle a lot when he first gets there if I can, to tucker him out a little.

Oh would my Bella love to play with that little poodle! They could tire each other out! :) In fact certain members of my family are strongly hinting that I bring another dog into the house for her as the cats sort of act like the sheltie when it comes to playing. :rolleyes: I guess since the sheltie and the poodle are only together two days a week it will take some time before a relationship will be established, if ever. At least there is no hostility between the two of them so that's a start! LOL! I too would love to see some pictures of both of these sweeties. PULEEZE!!

[lovemymaltese]

How old is the Sheltie? I know that my dog is 8 and does not like to play with other animals and my roommates bassett hound puupy loves to play. My point is Tango would not play and will never play, the basset hound has just gotten used to that fact. Maybe your situation will be different.