Prayers Needed For Romeo [Updated 2.1.07]

[areias]

Prayers are desperately needed for Romeo...we just got back from a vet appointment (borzoimom, I figured I would just post this instead of a PM). Romeo had been having some problems-having to pee ALL the time since I got him, about every half hour...having accidents, and recently leaking urine.

So we got him an appointment for today and went in, and they were able to do a basic urinalysis right there. his urine specific gravity, i think it was, was off the charts-he was basically peeing water. He would drink and it would go straight through him. So I talked about different things with Dr. Ar...and this is what he's narrowed it down to, to begin with:

-Behaviorally drinking way too much. He dosen't think this is it, but we're hoping it is.
-Kidney Failure
-Liver Failure
-Cushings Disease
-Addison's Disease
-maybe diabetes, but there was no sugar in the urine

So..it dosen't look too good right now. :( I'm keeping my fingers tightly crossed in hopes it is a behavior issue. We did some bloodwork and I'll find out the results tomorrow (ahh, the waiting game..) to be able to rule out kidney and liver failure. Sometimes the bloodwork will point to cushings or addisons, but otherwise the test itself is over $300 *gulp*. And I thought all we had was a UTI or something....

I don't understand how I can try to do the best I can for my pets...shots, neutered at the right age, great food, good living conditions, and stuff like this can happen. :(

So if you could...a PT miracle would be wonderful....

[borzoimom]

Oh honey in prayers. A medical problem does make sense, and some of the ones you listed are a " quick fix." ( addisons and diabetes isnt..)
I agree with your vet, and I do not think its behavior drinking. Some of those tests it takes like 48 hours to get them back with the results. Did your vet mention cranberry capsules? It would like be one capsule for up to a 50 pound dog. While it helps the kidneys to work better it might help a little. Usually its more for moving crystals etc. I am not sure what he suspects the most, so before giving it to him, check with the vet.
I am so sorry- thank you for the pm, and I will both both of you in prayers!
** edit- it does sound like to me your vet is doing everything they can to find out what is wrong here.. I know its hard to wait- but the tests will hopefully show what is wrong..**

[BC_MoM]

I really hope they find out whats wrong. :(

If I do remember correctly, didn't you say you got this boy from a BYB, and you knew it? I sure hope this wasn't passed down from bad lines. :(

Prayers and good thoughts for Romeo!

[areias]

Thanks for the prayers, they are certainly appreciated.


it does sound like to me your vet is doing everything they can to find out what is wrong here.. I know its hard to wait- but the tests will hopefully show what is wrong..**

Yes, my vet is very wonderful. I like him a lot, I hope he keeps practicing there as long as I'm around.


If I do remember correctly, didn't you say you got this boy from a BYB, and you knew it? I sure hope this wasn't passed down from bad lines.

Please don't turn this into another BYB debate. Stuff like this can happen to any dog.

[caseysmom]

Prayers on the way for Romeo, I sure hope its nothing serious.

[chocolatepuppy]

It may be a long shot, but I hope it is just behavioral issues. My Lacey, four years ago starting drinking and peeing like crazy. Her urine specific gravity was messed up too. After a few quick tests we waited a few days to see if it was behavioral, then they did more testing.They were leaning towards the same things on your list. Found nothing in the test results, and a few days later she stopped drinking so much and then peeing less.
The reason we came up with? My RB Mandy had to be leashed (due to her bad heart)instead of running loose with Lacey. It must have upset her, there was nothing wrong with her, she was back to normal.
According to some of your recent posts, moving and all, could it be Romeo is just upset? I hope that is all it is.

[areias]

No news as of yet...if I don't hear from the vet by 3 I'll give them a call.


According to some of your recent posts, moving and all, could it be Romeo is just upset? I hope that is all it is.

But he's been peeing like this since I got him...so I don't know. :( I remember telling people he's been hard to housebreak as he always has to pee like all the time. When I first got him, he would go outside, pee, then come back in and play with zoie for like 5 minutes and then have a big accident. I was told he would grow out of it.

[borzoimom]

I can not think of a single thing that long term peeing that doesnt turn into blood etc to indicate a different problem. Petetuatary, thyroid, diabetes.. those yes- but the last one has been ruled out. Dogs that are hypothyroid the side effect of UTI shows up alot- but I am at a loss here.
Your vet looks like they have the gamma covered.. I know the waiting is hard, but at least you will know and how to treat it.

[ramanth]

Poor Romeo. :( I hope the tests can bring forth a conclusive answer and that you can get him healed.

I know a thing or two about expensive tests.

[areias]

Called the vet, the bloodwork came in. Everything looks OK except his phospherus is pretty high, which can mean something's wrong with the kidneys-but his kidney values did come back fine. That's good.

Now...as he told me, the next thing to do would be a Cushings test. If that comes back ok then there would be the issue of putting him on a medication for diabetes insipidus, and if he gets better then that's what it is. If he dosen't, then he should do a water deprivation test and see if he's psycologically drinking too much. He told me that he's really not supposed to recommend it, but that I can start giving him limited amounts of water and see if his urine concentrates. But if he gets sick..then he gets sick and there's a problem. I don't know, I hate to say it...I'm just having a hard time swallowing $300 for just a test for Cushings. If everything was pointing towards Cushings then I would go for it, but to be so unsure....So I guess I'm going to sleep on it and try and figure out what the best route to go is.

[Ginger's Mom]

Good luck. I hope that it is something easily fixed or controlled. Prayers going out for Romeo.

[borzoimom]

Called the vet, the bloodwork came in. Everything looks OK except his phospherus is pretty high, which can mean something's wrong with the kidneys-but his kidney values did come back fine. That's good.

Now...as he told me, the next thing to do would be a Cushings test. If that comes back ok then there would be the issue of putting him on a medication for diabetes insipidus, and if he gets better then that's what it is. If he dosen't, then he should do a water deprivation test and see if he's psycologically drinking too much. He told me that he's really not supposed to recommend it, but that I can start giving him limited amounts of water and see if his urine concentrates. But if he gets sick..then he gets sick and there's a problem. I don't know, I hate to say it...I'm just having a hard time swallowing $300 for just a test for Cushings. If everything was pointing towards Cushings then I would go for it, but to be so unsure....So I guess I'm going to sleep on it and try and figure out what the best route to go is.
Well if you trust your vet, go with his recommendation. I trust mine, and would do what they said. An emergency clinic or a doctor I didnt know, I would get a second opinion. Its really up to whether you trust them and the line of treatment. ..

[borzoimom]

And look on your food bag- is the phosphorus and calcium balenced in percentages?

[chocolatepuppy]

Geez, I hate when ya don't know what way to turn. I spent a weeks pay the week or so Lacey was sick. They tested her for Cushings. By the time the tests came back almost a week later(they had to be sent out) the vet told me 1/2 came back ok and 1/2 was 'iffy' and they should run the tests again. She told me this over the phone before I told her Lacey was fine.
I'm not advising you not to do the tests, you have to find out what is wrong. I really didn't care about the money spent, we were so happy Lacey was ok.
I will keep Romeo in my prayers and will be watching this thread for updates.

[areias]

I'm giving the vet a call after Christmas to ask a few more questions. I've been doing a bunch of internet research lately. I will go ahead and continue with the last of the tests. This post is a little long, sorry, I guess it's more for personal notes as well.

My mom <as always> has been giving me a hard time about this..we were yelling at each other over it yesterday, she said she dosen't care what the problem is but that she won't have a dog that "pees on the floor" in her house. I tried to talk to her about it tonight...tried really hard to explain some things to her. She told me that I can't afford it and that in 6 months he will still be peeing on the floor and everything will come back fine and it'll just be a mental thing and that will be that- :mad: ! I left that comment alone, and I was still trying to talk out some things...talking about maybe putting a pee pad somewhere in case of accidents (which she told me I was NOT to do until my grandparents left... :rolleyes: ) and other things..but she got frustrated and told me that she would love to talk more (in a sarcastic way) but that she was tired and she went to go to bed. Well she was still up an hour later walking around the house *sigh*.

This is how its been going...I let Romeo out at about 10:40ish, I watched him go pee for 38 seconds (I counted) and then he was out there for about 5-7 minutes. And then I let him in and heard him drink some water-no big deal, a few sips. At about 11, I went out front for a cigarette, and he tried to come with me but I wouldn't let him because my neighbors were outside. I come inside and he had an accident that went from dribbling for about 4 feet to increasing to a puddle about the size of a dinner plate. Cleaned it up...then at exactly 11:16 Sam had to go out, so everyone did, and right away romeo went and peed for about 20 seconds. I definately think there is a problem there, that's every 15 minutes.

I wonder about the cushings-I'm not sure what to think. He does not have any skin problems/hair loss/pot belly nor is he lethargic. Here are the symptoms:

These animals typically present with symmetrical hair loss; excessive eating, drinking, and urination; lethargy; and a distended abdomen. They commonly have other skin abnormalities and secondary urinary tract infections as well

He DOES bolt his food and does act frantic when the other dogs are getting treats..when I give another dog a treat, he'll run to that dog to try and snatch it. He dosen't keep weight on very well..I had him on Chicken Soup, he lost weight, had him on Nutro, he gained it back okay but I wasn't too fond of nutro, so I switched to Exclusive (blech) and he really seemed to thin out, switched back to nutro recently and he did seem to fill out again, but now he seems to have dropped a bit. When looking down at him, he seems to have an extremely thin waist, and can feel ribs by just placing your hand on him. I don't know if this is a related problem.

CDI, Central Diabetes Insipidus, is an impaired ability of the kidney that causes them to become over dehydrated and they can die if they don't drink enough, which is the reason for excessive drinking. It CAN (not always) be caused by head trauma..which makes me think, a few weeks after I got him I brought him to my mom's house, and let him outside...we had a concrete bench next to the door on a concrete patio...and he went to put his paws on the window but missed and fell face first and then sat up and looked at me and his head bobbed up and down. He didn't seem any worse for the wear but it's just one of those things you just remember.

Anways, so I just gotta check with my vet to make sure that it's okay that we do the testing a few weeks after the holidays (let my finances recoup). I also want to see why he recommends doing the cushings test before the diabetes insipidus.

So keep those good thoughts coming for Romeo..we may still have a bit of a road to cover before we figure out what's going on. Thanks.

[borzoimom]

"CDI, Central Diabetes Insipidus, is an impaired ability of the kidney that causes them to become over dehydrated and they can die if they don't drink enough, which is the reason for excessive drinking. It CAN (not always) be caused by head trauma..which makes me think, a few weeks after I got him I brought him to my mom's house, and let him outside...we had a concrete bench next to the door on a concrete patio...and he went to put his paws on the window but missed and fell face first and then sat up and looked at me and his head bobbed up and down. He didn't seem any worse for the wear but it's just one of those things you just remember. "..
Hmm- I had a shepherd once that broke off a root from falling over going over a 6 foot high fence and landed on her face.( I mention this because it would be a month before we saw any signs of any problems)
I think maybe you should mention this concrete pation incident to the vet. Its rather odd or its coinsidental that the problems showed up after this event. I think you may have something here. Also- CDI needs a fasting test, then feed then test again. It is harder to diagnosis. Your vet knows this- but discuss it with your vet. Unless they have a new way to test for this disease ( and that is possible as its been years since I have heard or had any experience with it) they may want to do this isolation test.
I agree with you totally, there is something wrong and this is not behaviorial. I am so sorry you are not receiving support at home- but you have support here...!

[areias]

Your vet knows this- but discuss it with your vet. Unless they have a new way to test for this disease ( and that is possible as its been years since I have heard or had any experience with it) they may want to do this isolation test.

I think that he said that he puts the dog on a drug and if he gets better, than that's it. I'm just not looking forward to the cushings test.

[borzoimom]

I think that he said that he puts the dog on a drug and if he gets better, than that's it. I'm just not looking forward to the cushings test.
I did know they were working on a better way to test, and I am glad they use symptonactic as a way to solve this. It is and always had to detect- like borderline hypothyroidism. Femka had that one, and we put her on the medication, and you could see a change in a matter of days- it was obvious it was there.. Keep me posted, and both of you are in prayers- and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[sabies]

Good thoughts heading your way Romeo. My Sadie has kidney disease (she is 14 years old so it is age related) and she has a major incontinence problem. We have had much success with doggy diapers. She wears them immediately when she comes inside. They do make a wrap around style for male dogs. Perhaps it is worth a try to keep your mom off your back. Good luck.

[areias]

Good Updates! :)

So, based on how Romeo's urine concentrates to a normal level when he has supervised water times, he is now diagnosed with polydipsia, he drinks too much. Which is a good thing he's not actually sick with anything. Now it's just a matter of him having limited access to water. We are keeping our waterer on the back porch, with a door seperating it, but as the dogs go out and come in they can all get a drink. It's been helping a lot, no more accidents in the past 2-3 weeks. So thankyou PT, your miracles work again!

[BC_MoM]

That's great. :) Thank you for the update on Romeo.

[pitc9]

GREAT news!!!

[borzoimom]

Great news and thank you for the update!