Female cats spraying/peeing inappropriately

[jennielynn1970]

This has been an ongoing problem, and I've asked others about it, and it seems that a lot of people deal with the peeing issue, but no one really has a remedy for it.

I have 4 female cats living in the main part of my house. 3 are mine, and one is a foster cat for one of the shelters I volunteer for. Finae is 7yrs, and I've had her since she was a kitten. Sophie is about 6yrs old, and I've had her about 5years. Boris (yes, she's a girl), is 4 1/2 years old and I've had her since she was about 4 weeks old. Furbee, the foster, is between 7-9yrs old, I think, and I've had her for 1 1/2 years. There is one boy who is normally with them, Georgie, who is about 5-7 years old, and I adopted him 2years ago.

I'm positive it's not Georgie peeing. He's been so well behaved. My girls started peeing right after I adopted him however, and haven't let up since. I've tried Comfort Zone, I've had one of them on kitty prozac. I've tried to confine the one, however she was miserable, and I couldn't let her stay alone. Finae, Sophie and Boris all spray/pee inappropriately. Boris will pee on the kitchen table. UGH. Sophie, Boris and Finae will all spray at the moulding at the walls, and I think it's Finae who is peeing on the countertops in the kitchen. It's totally infuriating. I'm really at a loss about what to do. Both Furbee and Georgie are so well behaved. I have other fosters upstairs too, and 2 of the 3 don't come downstairs, only one of them comes down sometimes, but that's been a recent event. He's a new foster and very sweet and also old. He pretty much lets the others alone. He doesn't stay down all the time, only when I can be here with him incase there would be a problem.

Does anyone have any ideas about the peeing?? I'm glad it's on a non-porous surface, but I'm really tired of cleaning my counters of cat pee every day. EVERY DAY!!

Thanks for any thoughts...
Jennie

[jenluckenbach]

Hi Jennie (my fellow 1by1 volunteer and foster mom). I know of your situation, and am out of ideas for you.

The only new things that I can mention, are

1-more litter boxes and/or placing them in different areas.

or


2-Have you ever tried to separate George from the girls (instead of the other way around)? like maybe let him bunk with the upstairs fosters for a while to see if attitudes change?

Have you tried rescue remedy in their water? I can't vouch for it (but I am going to start trying it myself VERY soon. a lot of fighting going on lately)


How about tossing the 2 pee-bodies up in your foster rooms and giving the fosters access to the rest of the house with the "good cats"?

Maybe a medication OTHER than amitriptylin?

Diapers??? ;)

I know there are people here who deal (or have dealt) with this, so hoepfully something they have done will work for you.

(glad you posted)

[jennielynn1970]

Hmmmmm... litter boxes on the counter tops?! Only kidding.... that would be too gross.

I guess I'm just so tired of dealing with pee. And one of them has hit my cookbooks twice now, and i'm ticked off.

I don't think I'd put George all by his lonesome. He's too sweet, and i don't think I could get ahold of him anyway, lol. Although I have to shortly because one he needs his vaccinations updated, and two, I think there is a growth on his nose. I can't get too close to him to really check him out, but I swear it was more gray before, and now it looks like a darker flesh colored area on top of it. Almost flat, and I didn't notice it till yesterday cause I thought his nose was wet (hence the darker colored area).

I don't know about putting the girls upstairs and the foster boys downstairs. It might work, but I'd feel incredibly guilty! Although, that would limit the peeing to the 3rd floor, and I could hold out hope that the boys would be well behaved down here.

Not sure. Will have to think that one over. Rescue remedy did't do jack.

Wish I could figure out who is doing what where. Colored dye, something. Is there anything like that out there?!

UGH!!!!!

[jenluckenbach]

I don't know about putting the girls upstairs and the foster boys downstairs. It might work, but I'd feel incredibly guilty! Although, that would limit the peeing to the 3rd floor, and I could hold out hope that the boys would be well behaved down here.

The more I thought about it the more I would try this. The 3 girls are used to each other, they did not pee before George, and no one else seems to have a problem. I'd forget the guilt and give it a try. If you have less clean up, guilt will DISSAPPEAR!!! ;)

[jennielynn1970]

I don't know that guilt would disappear.... Finae is my baby girl! And Sophie too... she my sweetie pie. Boris is Boris. She hates everyone, lol.

I do know that the boys upstairs do not pee outside the box. Actually Sassy would probably be so happy to be downstairs with me, he wouldn't know what to do with himself. Woody.... I'm not so sure, but you never know.

Hrm... I'll have to think on this one long and hard. Georgie seems to love everyone, so that wouldn't make any difference, lol.

[catmandu]

That Sad As Thatis Why A Lot Of Pets End Up Being Abandoned, I Think Probably The Number Onr Reason.
We Hope That You Can Find A Solution, As George Sounds Like A Great Cat.

[Freedom]

I have not had to deal with this, so all I can do is suggest ideas.

My first thought is to discover who is doing what. If switching who is up and who is down will help with that, maybe do that "temporarily."

I don't think you want to try anything which stops them peeing where they ARE, like those counter top things, because you said right now it is porous and easy (oh, sorry, easiER) to clean up. If they are intent on not using the box and going elsewhere, making the counter top off limits could just move them to something that won't be easy to clean.

So rather than getting them to stop using what they are, you want to get them to USE what they should. Suppose you treated them like little kittens and put them in a smaller confined space with a litter box and no other options? Again, this is JUST temporary. It would be retraining them. Maybe have to do this for a week. Not sure what supplies you have and what you would need to buy to do this, but wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run than replacing rugs/counters/tables? So for a week, they would be in their kennels (or whatever small confines you come up with), one each, and maybe only let out one at a time to spend quality time with you?

Again, just thoughts, sounds like a LOT of work to me as I sit and re-read this. Sigh. Sorry I can't point you DIRECTLY to an answer!

[jenluckenbach]

Actually retraining IS a good idea. Worth a try.

Also, have you tried Cat Attract litter? Might make the litter box irresistable. (LOL)

[catcrazylady]

First I want to say I admire your tolerance and patience. I am so thankful that no where in your post was any comment about "getting rid" of your babies! GOD BLESS YOU! I work in a shelter so I see many cats come in the door for far less reasons than this.

I'm not sure where you are located but there is a new litter that Pet Supermarket sells that is money back guaranteed to draw cats to it and stop outside the box peeing. I don't put a whole lot of stock in it but they do give you back your money if it doesn't work. ;)

You have three floors in your house? Where are your litter boxes? Are they easily accessible on all floors? Have your girls been checked for URI's? I know its highly unlikely that more than one would have it but hey you never know!:rolleyes:

I have one female named Maggie Sue that will not use a litter box for anything! She is far too good to use a box that is shared by others! She uses the floor right outside the box. Thankfully I don't have to deal with her peeing on counters or anywhere else. She does on occasion use the human toilet! Yes, really she does. She will straddle the seat and pee very proudly. Now if I could just get her to do that all the time!!! :D :D

The only real solution that I know to work is retraining. Generally that means confining them to a small area and slowly expanding it. I know you don't want to do that and I don't blame you but other than that I have no idea.

Are you sure its the girls and not territorial marking from the boys?

[jennielynn1970]

I've had them to the vet, more than once, and basically they said that since it's been going on, and they don't have a UTI (not that they checked however), the vet suggested I confine them. I tried to do that last year, and it was miserable. For a while they were ok (back then it was one of the girls, and a boy that my is actually my mom and dad's cat). They would be fine up in the single room, but when left back down, I swear, it took less than 10 minutes for one of them to mark something.

Mostly this is not just inappropriate elimination, it's spraying. I never thought girls sprayed, but I've seen them do it. Many times, when they are spraying by the walls, it's them doing it right in front of me. Which of course, I yell or clap immediately and clean up whatever might have happened.

I have never seen anyone pee on the countertop. I think it's actually two different cats, because the urine looks different. The one is darker than the other is, so I'm guessing it's 2 of them.

I refuse to dump any of my kitties because they pee outside of the box. It's just not an option. I volunteer for two shelters, and have 4 fosters that I adore. They are so well behaved, and never pee outside the box. They do have their own floor to themselves in my house. It has heating, AC, toddler beds, cat beds, comforters, windows to look out of. It's a great area for them. My own guys are on my 1st and 2nd floor, and there are litter pans on both floors. I tried to keep it to one of the floors, but the one foster I have downstairs is very apprehensive of the other cats, so I have others on the 1st floor for when she's down here. She's better around them now (it's been 1 1/2 years), but she's very afraid of other cats.

I think it's more of my three girls wanting to be only cats, and unfortunately, they aren't and I am unwilling to part with them. Boris was supposed to be my brother's cat, I found her at my one elementary school at 4weeks old, and he decided after a few months of me having her that he didn't want to adopt a cat. So, I've had her ever since. She's a good cat, but she's not happy around other kitties. She basically sleeps on the one sofa, but she will wander around the house at times. Finae, my first kitty, has been with me since she was a baby too. She's a total jealous cat when it comes to sharing affection. She and Boris do not get along. Sophie, found as a stray about 5yrs ago, is the sweetest little thing. She does spray here and there, and seems to get annoyed with Finae. She used to get along with Boris when she was tiny, but not so much any more.

Georgie is the only one of my own who is well behaved. He adores other cats, but none of them want anything to do with him. He was really good pals with my mom and dad's cat, they cuddle, snuggle, and sleep together, but they took him back (he has since passed away). I know he'd love a buddy, but the girls are not having it. I've tried to get the one foster from upstairs to be more involved downstairs, but he's another of the "I'd like to be the only cat", and he picks on the others.... so, needless to say I do not allow him down here when I'm not here, or if he starts to cause a fuss. He's the sweetest thing though. He's at least 11yrs old, FIV+, and has the sweetest disposition (most of my fosters are special needs kitties... FIV+ or anxiety issues. I take the ones that would just be in the shelter forever).

Anyway, I think that answered the questions. Not sure the retraining would work, because I really feel it's behavioral, jealousy, territorial, and I really just don't know what to do. I don't want to put them on the 3rd floor and make them feel alienated, they're my own cats. They've never really had to deal with that. Only one of them has, and she was miserable as I said.

So... I just don't know.

[Catty1]

Jenn- here is information from another post regarding a pet psychic that has helped a number of people here. See what you think. I know it says $30 per animal, but maybe contact her and see if she can do a deal, as you have a LOT of kitties! Just a thought.


"Her name is Nancy Efrusy and she lives in Michigan. She only charges $30 per animal and she didn't even seem concerned about me paying her so she's not in it for the money. At the end of both readings she gave me her home address and I mail her a check. Her e-mail address is [email protected]"

[jennielynn1970]

Pet Psychic.... um... ok. That's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure what I'd ask her to do. Like, ask the kitties why they're peeing?? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just confused. I watch John Edwards and Crossing Over, I am just not sure about the whole talking with animals deal. How realistic is it??

[Catty1]

She basically "contacts" the cats to find out why they are doing what they are doing. You might pick the ones that are the 'troublemakers' for her to check.

If you search this forum, top RHS, and type in "psychic", you will get a number of threads, some will have the titles of readings that Nancy did on the cats.

You can also email her and ask questions - no charge for that!

One funny one I remember is that Pouncer had recently gone on Valium for his UTI and Nancy didn't know that. But she kept getting this mental picture of Pouncer bouncing in the clouds. When she was told Pouncer had just gone on Valium, there was a good laugh there!

And DRAT....I can't recall Pouncer's meowmie's name! Argh! Monday mornings!

[Lizzie]

Jenn - My commiserations! I've been through this many times for over 20 years and I've never found a solution except to move the cats that are having the problems. I'm sorry to state that so baldly, but I think you have already pretty much come to the same conclusion yourself. Extra litter boxes, new litter boxes, extra attention, Feliway, isolation re-training, repeated checks for UTI, supervised trips into the garden, nothing has worked in my household on a cat that has developed this behavior, male or female.

I hate, hate, hate the fact that some of my cats have to live downstairs (my house is in a hill and I have a daylight basement with living room, bedrooms, etc.), but after having upstairs walls replaced and stripping out the carpet so I'm left with plywood subfloor with rugs thrown over it, I'm out of options. Those cats just don't get the attention the upstairs cats get and I have to make myself go downstairs and spend time with them. All their soft furniture has to be wrapped in plastic, they ruined the one sofa they had, sprayed on all the lamps and tv, so it's not a cosy place to be. Telling myself that they created this environment doesn't help the guilt or wish that things were different. I tried again last week to bring Thumper upstairs because I adore him and he longs for attention, but within hours I was cleaning spray pee off furniture and soaking my sofa in Nature's Miracle so he had to go back down. All five of them (except for Taranis) have fun downstairs together. They were all long-time shelter cats, Thumper for about 6 years, so they have a lot more freedom and comfort than they've had before, but it's far from what I want for them.

I have Taranis (female, although a male name like Boris) on Prozac and it has helped. She's never sprayed but she peed on just about anything, especially soft furniture, blankets, throws, pillows, etc. She's also now with cats that she doesn't hate quite as much as before; she will actually share the bed with them if they stay several feet away from her. She had had 4 homes in her first 3 years before I adopted her, being bounced back to the shelter for "inappropriate elimination" and not wanting to be cuddley. She should really be an only cat but that isn't going to happen. Sigh!

We share the same kind of cats - I have mostly FIV+, behavior problems and ex-ferals also, but with a couple of handicapped cats thrown into the mix.

Good luck with sorting things out, and if you come up with a good solution, please post it.

[Logan]

This is my greatest fear in having multiple cats. I have been so lucky over the years, but I have also done the unpopular thing of letting my cats come in and out at their desire. I only do that because we live in a very quiet area. We only have one cat, now, since we lost our 17 year old kitty in July, and he does not use the litter box, although it is there for him, if he is inside. He chooses to "go" outdoors and has never made a mess in our home in the almost 6 years that he has been with us (he was a stray that I took in).

I don't have much advice, but I sure would make it uncomfortable for any of those cats to be on my kitchen counters and table, especially if they are peeing on those surfaces. Can you shut off your kitchen with closed doors when you are not there to watch them? I have only heard and read, but using double sided tape, tin foil, and other things can discourage them jumping on the counters. I am not one that allows my cat to get on the kitchen counters or table, anyway, let alone pee on them. If he did, we'd be having a major discussion about it and finding ways to discourage that behavior. And I'm not sure that I could defend him well enough to continue to allow him free reign in our home. I'm not saying that he has never been on the countertop because I know he has and I have even photographed him there in the past, but I do not normally allow it and he knows it. If he tries, then one quick, verbal correction from me usually makes him get down.

I wish you luck. I know this is one of those awful situations that you simply must find an answer for. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), I have never been in your situation and can't offer much help.

Logan

[Catty1]

One last thought...is an outdoor cat run a possibility?

[jennielynn1970]

I have also done the unpopular thing of letting my cats come in and out at their desire. I only do that because we live in a very quiet area.

I don't have much advice, but I sure would make it uncomfortable for any of those cats to be on my kitchen counters and table, especially if they are peeing on those surfaces. Can you shut off your kitchen with closed doors when you are not there to watch them? I am not one that allows my cat to get on the kitchen counters or table, anyway, let alone pee on them. If he did, we'd be having a major discussion about it and finding ways to discourage that behavior. And I'm not sure that I could defend him well enough to continue to allow him free reign in our home.

Logan
Ok, a few things....
1. I live in the city. I will not let my cats outside. Just won't happen. My parents live in the country, but even there I wouldn't let my cats outside. They are inside cats, never having been outside, and I tend to value their companionship.

2. As I did say in a previous post, although it is very frustrating that they are peeing on the countertops, it is easier to clean than say, the sofa, my bed, and the various other porous surfaces. So, while I'd like to put things there to discourage them, I'm not exactly in a position where I can try and see if they decide to destroy furniture. I don't have the kind of income where it's just disposable and I can replace my furniture every month or so.

3. Normally my cats were never on the counter tops, and I only discovered this when I saw the pee on them.

4. We've had major discussions, but as far as I can tell, they haven't really become fluent in english, so they haven't been able to enlighten me as to why they are doing it. I'm guessing it's territorial.

5. While I don't relish the idea of cats peeing on my countertops, I do love my pets, and I will not just shut them off somewhere because they are doing something I don't like. This will make them MORE unhappy. If they are already feeling insecure or jealous or territorial, how would they feel if I stuck all three of them in a small room?? Not the greatest I'd bet. Which more than likely would make it worse. So, while you may not want to give your cat free reign and would confine him, I cannot do that to my girls with a clear conscience.

I don't mean to sound so defensive, but apparently you didn't read all the posts or don't understand where I'm coming from. While I hate cleaning up cat pee, I will not have my own cats be made miserable so that I clean less. I will not endanger their lives by letting them outside. I'd rather clean pee off a non-porous surface rather than a porous one and replace my belongings monthly. I'm just trying to get ideas on how to alleviate the problem, maybe stop it, not transfer it to another area.

[jennielynn1970]

One last thought...is an outdoor cat run a possibility?

Unfortunately, no. My yard is about 3 ft by 12ft, and mostly mulch and topsoil/potting soil. I'm planning on getting a deck installed, but again, not much area there for them. I live in a row home in center city allentown, pa. It's not conducive to having outdoor pets where I live (although I feed three to four neighborhood cats on my front porch).

[Logan]

Sorry that I upset you, Jenn. I had seen a link on the Cat General page, asking for thoughts, so I responded, thinking that you were really wanting as much input as you could get. I read every post in this thread before I responded.

Obviously, you disagree with me on some things, and that's ok, but please don't imply that I love my cat any less than you do because of how I would handle this situation, if I were in your shoes. That would be irresponsible of you, since you don't "know" me yet, and if you did know me, you would know that I care immensely for all of my animals (cats, dogs, birds, fish). We have had a very bad 12 months, losing 3 of our beloved pets, due to old age and cancer. The kitty I have now, Butter, is an unusual situation, and in order to keep him happy, after living the life of a stray, I had to choose to allow him to come and go as he pleases. No one at Pet Talk has ever been critical of me for my decision to do that, and many people here have lived through my experience with Butter from the very day he showed up at my house, almost six years ago. He chooses to be indoors or on the deck with our dogs most of the time, but does go "out" to do his business, and I do understand the risk I take every time he walks out the door, but after weighing it all, it was a risk that I was willing to take, in order to provide him a home. He sleeps beside me every night and wherever we are in our home, he is usually right there with us. I wanted to add that I was NOT implying that your cats should be indoor/outdoor cats, just telling you more about me so you would understand my situation.

Good luck solving your problem. I know it has to be tough.

Logan
Butter (kitty), Honey and Lilly (Golden Retrievers), Mack (English Bulldog puppy), Ben (Golden Retriever foster boy), Roger and Milly (Cockatiels) and Otto (Betta Fish)

[mruffruff]

I have one of those too. Shai still sprays on occasion after being here for 3 years. I have a plastic shield in front of my kitchen TV and wash it regularly. So far, she's sticking to hard surfaces--bathtub, kitchen counter, washing machine. I consider it an improvement over my toothbrush.

I suspect she wants to tell me that she's unhappy about all the other cats living in HER house. Unfortunately, they were here first and some came after, but most aren't going to be leaving soon.

I will be contacting the psychic soon. She helped me with a feral cat that I have.

[Catsnclay]

Yoshi is our pee-boy, and we have tried everything and he still pee's! :mad:


Luckily I have a husband who understands and yells at me when I yell at Yoshi. He keeps telling me that cats pee, we can't change him (I wouldn't any way ;) ) so don't get mad when he pee's.

What a great husband.....huh?! :D

[jennielynn1970]

I responded, thinking that you were really wanting as much input as you could get.
Obviously, you disagree with me on some things, and that's ok, but please don't imply that I love my cat any less than you do because of how I would handle this situation, if I were in your shoes. That would be irresponsible of you, since you don't "know" me yet, and if you did know me, you would know that I care immensely for all of my animals (cats, dogs, birds, fish). I wanted to add that I was NOT implying that your cats should be indoor/outdoor cats, just telling you more about me so you would understand my situation.



Hi Logan, I wasn't trying to imply that you don't care for your cat... far from it. We have different situations, and where I live it's just not an option to allow them to venture outside. And yes, I was wanting input, but I was looking for what would be applicable to my situation... that's what I meant. Not sure if I mentioned city living or not in the previous posts, so that would be my mistake. Sorry! I just get touchy with the outdoor cat thing because my parents took their cat back after he had lived with me for 5years, saying he'd be happier back on their farm, and they let him out whenever he wanted, and didn't watch him as closely as I would have had it been me in their situation, and he ended up getting hit on the road that runs about 1/3 mile down from their house. I was so upset when that happened. They just didn't realize how much of a city cat he was, and how he just didn't have that common sense about being outdoors and the dangers there. That was a few months ago, so it just touched a nerve. I wish there was a way I could do that, but I can't.

I've tried isolation. I tried letting them in the basement, and I had 8 litter boxes down there for 5 cats, and they still peed all over, and add in the cement, it was just horrific. So, the basement is now closed and off limits. I'm annoyed with them peeing on the counters or the baseboards of the walls, and I wish it would stop, but I wouldn't want them to start doing it somewhere else either. Ugh.

Again, sorry if I upset you... Jennie

[fragrancehound]

Jenn,

Have you tried those sprays that are supposed to keep cats off things? I'm assuming you have but I thought I would ask.

What about a product like this?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3453&N=2002+2017

Do you think that might work?

I totally sympathize with your situation. It can make things very difficult.

[jennielynn1970]

I was just wondering that myself, but then again, I wonder if that would make them pee somewhere else.

I did email the pet psychic to see what she actually does and all that. I guess I'm skeptical. Plus when I GOOGLED her, it led me to where it has info on her being a cub scout den leader/mother. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm just sitting here going "What does a cub scout den mother know about being a psychic??". I'm a librarian, a teacher, and I guess I question things like that because to me, it's just a strange kind of combination. And I guess I just am not so sure about the pet psychic deal. I'm one of those show me logic people... I think it comes from being in the education field, and doubting things that can't be totally explained. Or it's just me. :rolleyes:

[fragrancehound]

I would be skeptical too! :) There are so many people out there trying to make a quick buck and really do not care about the well being of other people or their pets. It's sad really.

What about a holistic approach? Maybe acupuncture or some herbs?

I really feel for you too. It is a hard situation you are in and there are no easy answers.

[Medusa]

One of my males, Specs, has peed from day one. He totally ruined my dining room server, to the point that the wood was warped and the doors couldn't close. I bought new dining room furniture and now he's started doing the same thing to my buffet. So, as much as I hate to, he's back on amitryptilene. I don't like to drug my cats but I will not allow them to ruin my furniture again. The last suite was old but this is new and I'm not independently wealthy that I can keep replacing furniture. I admit to not having read all your posts, so I'm not sure if you mentioned trying medication or not. But I went with Feliway, tin foil, water guns, double sided tape, noisemakers, more litter boxes, the whole bit. None of it worked. Until amitryptilene. It keeps him calm. He's not a zombie, just calm so that he doesn't spray. Hope this helps.

Blessings,
Mary