Help! Pee Pee War!

[Beeftink]

HELP! I rescue cats, and currently have eight. Two of the females hate each other, and spray all over the walls, doors and kitchen appliances! :eek: This has been going on for a few years now, and I 'm really tired of cleaning up after the "battles"! I have tried Feliway spray, but they don't care about it.
These two "ladies of the house" pee on each other's toys and sleeping spots, and attack each other whenever possible! Both are "permanent residents" of our rescue home, and are quite happy with everything, except each other. :( They're allowed to go outside (mostly to get away from each other), but they come back in and spray anyway.
The pee-pee war has got to stop! Medication isn't the answer here, because they each have their own medical issues...Any suggestions? :confused:

[C.C.'s Mom]

Hi and Welcome to PetTalk!

I can only think of one solution: seperation. I don't think this is something that's going to change if both are in the house for so long. Maybe they're just very unhappy and can't tolerate the situation. Is rehoming of one of them an option? It sounds like a very big problem.

I once had to rehome a male cat who couldn't tolerate another my other 2 cats. It broke my heart, but it was the best I could do for him. He lived a very happy long life as a single cat.

welcome to Pettalk !!!!
I know the subject is serious , but I hope you do not mind I had a good laugh reading your story ... Isn't very nice , I know , but just imagine your story as a movie .......... !
Sorry if I cannot help you out ! Maybe you'd better get some advise at a rescue-shelter ? I am afraid there is not much you can do .. those kitties are all trying to tell the others : this is my spot , get away from here !!!
Lots of success anyhow !!

http://community.webshots.com/user/sydneybilliepets

[Beeftink]

Thanks to everyone for the warm welcome ! I will try to post some pics of my fur owners in a minute!
We've spoken with a few of our "rescue pals", and some vets, but there doesn't seem to be an answer, much less any peace making on the pee pee battle field! It's been going on for so long, that we've all just gotten a big, exasperated laugh at the whole situation!, other than separation.;) Oh the things they choose to spray....Our satellite receiver has been replaced 5 times!:eek:
Here's their naughty history:Dangey, also known as Madame D, and Queen of the Bed, is my fiance's owner...She is extremely attached to him - so much so, that we had to fly home from a job we were working out of state. We had to come get her depressed bottom! So, she's not going anywhere....
Then there's Zipper: a loud, stubby little lady that has a bad hip, knee and tail! Many vets have said that her birth defects can't be corrected, but it's o.k., they don't slow her too much!:D Just look at all the pee on my walls....
Everybody think hard on this one...I'll be cleaning the walls while you rack your brains!:D

[NoahsMommy]

I don't have much experience with this one, our babies are male and female and don't do this....the only thing I can think of is separation too...maybe not necesarily finding a new home for one, just allowing them certain rooms that are their own to walk in. I don't think you will be able to change the natural reactions that are in them. Good luck and tell us what you end up doing! :)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Welcome to Pet Talk. I don't know what you should do either. Since the two cats don't get along, the only thing I can think of is to separate them. Cats are supposed to hate tinfoil so maybe you could put that on the walls where they usually spray. Good luck and please keep us posted.:)

[Fuzzy317]

Our cats were spayed/neutered kind of young, they do not spray much, if at all. I am not a cat expert, but you seem to be having a dominance issue. Each one is trying to show dominance over the other. Rehoming one of them may be a solution.

[Beeftink]

Yup. We've discussed finding another home for Zipper, because Dagney is Phillip's cat - she'd die without him. Zipper has a great personality, but she's got some handicap issues that I have to be certain about. You all know how hard it is to let them go...I suppose I'm just being overly protective.:(
So for now, thanks for all the good advice, and I'll keep following "the ladies" around with a cleaning bottle & rag!;)
Oh, I'm still trying to post pics, but haven't had any luck - my file is too big?? I called it "My Kitties", but it's not working. Any suggestions? I'd love to show you all the Pee Pee Queens!

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Well... Separation would help A LOT!!! Or...They could have their own quarters and wouldn't be allowed to visit.

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Is that the photo with the big black kitty and the two other ones?

[Beeftink]

We live in a VERY small condo - it's got 2 bedrooms and one of those combined living room/dining rooms, kitchen & 1 bath. But, it's got a huge backyard w/privacy fencing, so they can sort of get away from each other. The second bedroom is now off limits - too much pee pee on electronics! So, we're still working on the "separate space" thing!;)
There's actually a second posting w/a picture below the one you saw. The three kitties are non-pee pee warriors!
Here is Dagney - pee pee queen #1 with a little catnip action!:D

[Beeftink]

And here is Zipper, the stubby, pee tossing, hated foe of Dagney, Queen of the Bed aka "Madame D".
Oh, the drama:p

[NoahsMommy]

Gosh, I hope you/we can figure out a way to fix this problem. Have you spoken with a vet? Maybe they would have some ideas?

[Beeftink]

Most of the vets have suggested separation, simply because medication is not an option. A few that were unaware of both of their medical conditions had suggested just popping pills to calm them down, but I wouldn't do that anyway. I will tell you this: The other kitties are VERY TIRED of pee on everything. It's causing lots of stress for them. :confused:

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Oh! They're both sooo cute!!! Why don't you put up: FREE CAT signs? I'm sure someone would like them...

[Beeftink]

Unfortunately, Zipper has a torn ACL, deformed hip & tail that cannot be repaired. I'll post a pic so you can see what I mean. Her "bum" leg becomes painful when the weather changes, and you can't touch her tail - it's stuck off to the side, shaped like a zipper & doesn't budge. She's been seen by many specialists, but everyone says she's fine just like she is. But, because of all of her problems, she can't be around children, or even other mildly agressive animals.
Dagney is actually in the "medical books" - she's on the web for veterinarians all over the world to discuss obscure medical cases. We've taken her to 5 different states to be examined by specialists & everyone is stumped. She has open wounds that appear at random & will not close. They've been sewn shut, taken cultures of, and biopsied & tested & tested. She's taken more medication than I can list...We just try to keep it under control when it happens, and she is leading a full life! :)
And again I say: "Oh the drama!"

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Oh...Well I don't know what to say then. Maybe you should get a bigger place. I know that probably isn't most reasonable but this is a tuff situation!!! I hope the other kitties don't get too stressed!:(

[krazyaboutkatz]

Your cats sure are beautiful. I hope you can find a solution to your problem soon. Please keep us posted.http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/colours.gif

[C.C.'s Mom]

Those cats are beautiful!!! Thanks for the pics.

[Puppypower64]

Your Cats are just marking their territory they want the entire house to be theirs you could try keeping the cats separated. The reason being so they don't hurt each other. Because in your words right know there having pee pee battles next it could be real battles.:eek:

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Welcome PuppyPower64.
And you know Puppy Power is right! And if they start attacking each other in their condition they wouldn't last very long! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :( :( :( :( :( I'd like to make sure their alive without the peepee battles!

[Beeftink]

Well I guess I should mention that they've been dealing with each other for about 5 years now, and it's mostly just alot of show :mad: ! You know, arched neck & back, nasty insults and chasing each other up & down the hall. Ladies, ladies. The fur never REALLY flies. After all this time, there's really no danger of real aggression, so don't worry!:cool: As a matter of fact, they usually end up sleeping fairly close to one another on the bed at night...But not too close!
Now the peeing has become more of an "insult" than a marking of territory....They pee quite a bit on each other's favorite toys & resting areas!:eek: The bulk of the pee is on the walls in the main hallway where they both have to walk...Oh yeah, so do we!
We're working on that "separation solution", but we're just not sure how, right now!:confused:

[catland]

Gosh, what a dilemma you have. There is definately a power struggle going on in your household!

Here's something to think about. Can you determine which one is the "top cat" of the two? Once you've done that, is there anything that you humans can do show the cats that you respect their heirarchy? For example, you could give the "top cat" attention first, or food first, or praise first - something to let them know that you recognize who the real leader of the bunch is?

Our Sid is the "top cat" in our house, so he always gets his food first. The others don't act jealous and they tolerate the situation.

Also, there are books available about cat behaviorists and cat psychology that can give advise.

Best of luck and keep us posted.:cool:

[catland]

I forgot to add - Dagney looks just like my Who-cat - a female cat that I had growing up and that lived to be 14 years old. She even once defended our family dog from another, much bigger dog. It's a sight I'll always remember.

:D

[Beeftink]

You are absolutely correct about the "top cat" issue. Jones is the dominant male in our house - he's got some pics under "My Kitties". The dominant female WAS Grey Girl, and as you said, everyone accepted it and we had no power struggles. However, she now lives with my parents, so since she left, these two have been in competition. I think the real problem stems from the fact that neither one is really "top cat", so there's no balance to find. Like you said, we tried to help show the heirarchy respect, but neither was willing to accept placement. Ugh.
Here's Grey Girl:She ruled with an iron paw!:)

[krazyaboutkatz]

Beeftink, Grey Girl is beautiful but I'm a bit biased because she looks a lot like my cat Storm.http://www.smileydictionary.com/images/smileys_cat/cat.gif

[iluvmicho]

Are the two females spayed?I was just wondering when i read that if that would have anything to do with the peepee wars.

[Beeftink]

Oh yes, everyone has been spayed/neutered. We've got 8 right now, and only these two "ladies" seem to have a "Well take that!" pee pee attitude. There are three males and five females, and no one else gets involved. We had to replace all the scrathing pads & toys this weekend...Can anyone guess what happened to them? :eek:

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

:( :( :( :( :( :( I feel so bad for the kitties! (The non-peepee warriors) I hope you can solve this!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Beeftink]

Thanks, I will keep everyone pee-osted!:p
But, even though the old toys were ruined, everybody really liked the new toys and catnip!:D
Here's another pic of Dagney with her catnip obsession!

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Dagney looks like such a cutie, after Odie finishes his catnip and there's no more he goes and attacks Fritz. Chasing her around the house. It's so funny!

[Beeftink]

Post some pics of Odie on the nip! I bet that's alot of fun! I know what you mean, it sounds like a small herd of buffalo running up & down the hall when the catnip is out! Dagney is usually the first one in the room for it...she's a little fiend!;)
Here's a "after the catnip" pic: Everybody is pooped!

[KittenCloudSprinkles]

Haha cute. I wish I could show you....

[catland]

Thought I'd mention - there is a product by Kleenco called Kitty Scram which is the best pee-smell remover that I have ever used. It's usually sold at the commercial level, but we were able to get alhold of some. I've used it on hardwood floors, carpets, and fabric. They have a web site, www.kleenco.com, that might help you find a local distributor.

The stuff is wonderful, and smells like bubblegum (which is a lot better than the smell of kitty-pee!:D )

One final mention, I had commented earlier that there is a power struggle going on. Maybe you need to "crown" the queen, so everyone knows which of the two are "in charge", and it might help settle things down a bit.

Good luck!

[Beeftink]

Bubblegum? That's great compared to the smell we've got now! I'll check it out - thank you! We tried Feliway, but it's not very effective on the walls - everywhere else is fine, though.
I think we'll try and choose a female to rule - it would be nice if Jones (everybody's daddy) would just choose for himself and end the war! But, he's a busy guy. I guess we'd better decide who is most suited....It almost seems like it would be easier to bring back Grey Girl (she lives at my parent's house). But now she's got her own pride to keep track of, so that's not possible. We'll give it a try & keep everyone posted!;)

[catland]

Hi Beeftink - I just wanted to follow up. Any progress with the war?

Hope things are improving.

:cool:

[Beeftink]

Hey! Thanks for the follow up! I wish I had something great to report, but it's "the same old pee pee story" at our house!:rolleyes: Dagney & Zipper appear to hate each other a little more each day, so I don't see an end in sight.
We had a fire in our kitchen over the 4th :eek: , and even that didn't stall the battling. So now we've got a lovely greasy-smoke smell mixed with kitty spray. Mmmmm, mmmm, can't wait to get home & inhale! The insurance adjuster is going to have a field day with this one...

[lovemymaltese]

Beeftink, I have no advice, I just wanted to welcome you to Pet Talk. Good luck!

[wayne0214]

BEEFTINK, it has been my experience with female felines, that once the pattern has set in of these two females not liking each other, that there is little that can be done, to cause them to live together in harmony. May I suggest that you either permanently separate them, such as re-homing the one,and keeping the other, or if your facilities allow, that you keep one as an outside furkid, while the other (the most adaptable to inside living) stays inside.

..............wayne

[Beeftink]

You know, we've been discussing just that very thing, Wayne. Zipper loves the outside (she was rescued from outside life), and Dagney only goes out occasionaly (she was only an inside kitty), so we may just have to keep them inside & outside for a longer amount of time. At night, everyone comes inside (mostly on & around the bed), and there seems to be little trouble. Maybe if we try what you're suggesting, they would forget the other exists.;)
BUT, we have a pet door that everyone uses! There are 8 cats here, plus the neighbor's cat comes in to "hang out" every few days, as well. (It's like a busy "furry bed & breakfast" around here.)
You're right though, once the hateful pattern has started, there's not much that can really be done to reverse it. I am still contemplating new homes for a few, including Zipper, but it takes so long to find the "right" home.:(
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll keep everyone posted!:cool:

[Aspen and Misty]

We have a cat named Tundie who we are trying to re home, She is trying to be the domanite cat our of our 5. She pees on everything. We stoped it for awile. We had only two cats at one time Misty and TUndie. So we put MIsty in my room where she spends her days playing with he real live mice and with her old hamster Aspen (RIP). We had to seprate them, but we recently got 3 more cats and it all started voer again. So we are trying to find her a home. Adn no the pee smell is not a very welcomeing smeel to coem home to. :rolleyes: