Will NOT listen..

[slleipnir]

I don't know what to do. No matter what I do, Josie will not listen if she totally doesn't want to. She STILL barks at nothing when shes outside, and we've tried everything. We do it constant so she will learn. My dad even made her wear those stupid bark collars (which I HATE) but he says she can't be out there barking at everyone and everything. I never put it on when she went out, she used to howel, then wrimper, then the wimper would shock her too, then she'd wimper again, etc. So I'd have to run to her rescue and comfort her..lol definitly not teaching her anything.
Its mostly when shes outside she won't listen. IF she sees a dog walking, then she bark and bark, and I could be calling her, and it seems to go in one ear, and out the other.

When shes indoors, and she sees our neighbors (the ones with the dog) she'll start to cry, and she won't lay off it until they are completly out of site. (closing the door or curtions doesn't count..she KNOWS..)

I just want her to listen. I know I've constantly been asking for help, but a lot of new ppl have joined with new ideas...maybe someone knows of a good way to help??
I need that dr. stanley guy from good dog! lol..

[mugsy]

My suggestion is to call a trainer. That's what we're going to do with Max the wunderweim, so came to us pretty well trained, but now that's he's here, he needs some refreshers. Our insurance person's daughter does dog training so she may be our lead.

Good luck!

[slleipnir]

Thanks, I'm not to sure if there is any/many trainers around here, not to mention I doubt my dad would like the idea. He figures..heck, I don't know what he figures..

[Jokens]

:)

Our Yellow Lab barks alot too, especially outside at anything that moves. I think Labs have better noses, their scent is stronger than most dogs therefore they are more aware of what is going on around them...or want to know more of whats happening around them. All dogs are protective of there loved ones and territory, I don't punish our dog at all for barking, its his job in a way, instead I get up and check it out. Several times it was someone in our alleyway that should not have been there, the barking keeps trouble makers away. I think its a waste to teach a dog NOT to bark. But I do understand how annoying it can be if its constant, instead of a trainer...take him to a vet, he might be hurting or something physically wrong. Just a thought, I'm no expert on barking but I am a dog lover!

[slleipnir]

Its not that we find it annoying or not, its that it bothers the neighbors to hear her howling all the time. I don't think anythings wrong other then shes afraid of everything! hehe! Thanks for the advise :]

[Jokens]

we live in small town, only one fire station and not a whole lot of crime, so sirens are not a problem. But our lab really starts in howling before we hear the sirens, maybe you live near a fire station? Police Station? or some sort of factory with a high pitch machinery? It can really hurt their ears. I guess we are lucky enough that our neighbors like our dog too, they have told us many times they are not bothered by his barking, they rather feel safer. We have a yorkie also...who stays inside 99% of the time, when Beau (our lab) barks outside, Chewy runs to all the windows in the house...looking to see what Beau is barking at, as if he is the boss and checking the seriousness of it all. :)
I don't think we could survive in this world without our little helpers! Have a nice evening :)

[slleipnir]

We also live in a small place. We're not that close to the firestation or anything, and we rarely hear anything (not many fires etc) I think maybe when she was a pup we spoiled her..like for example a big truck would speed by and scare her, so we'd pick her up and cuddle her. So now she probably just to scared of everything lol. As far as I know, our neighbors like my dogs, but I still don't like the fact shes barking, even if they say it might not bother them to much. I'm only certian about 2-3 of our neighbors. most have dogs of their own. So, I'm not sure, Jo's just weird I guess hehe! Thanks for your advice!

[sammi]

Lucky for me Buddy is not a barker! BUT the lab we had before would bark all the time outside - some dogs are just more prone to bark and it can really get the neighbors MAD to say the least!
We soloved the problem by using a spray bottle of water and squirted her in the face when she barked and finally all I had to do was show her the spray bottle and she would stop barking. I also would say NO BARK when I corrected her. She did still bark when something was out of the norm ect.

[cfuh]

My Sammie barks a lot also. She barks out the window if she senses or sees anyone. She's very protective of the house and the grounds around it (we live in a townhouse development). Has your dog been socialized? Sammie is much better now since I've taken her to doggie daycare. I'm not too worried about her barking, she is a dog for goodness-sake and that's what dogs do...it would be like telling humans to stop talking.

I've also read that you can teach your dog to bark on command and that may minimize the barking. Anyway, good luck with your doggie!!!!

:)

[slleipnir]

Thanks :] Yes Jo is socialized. She's been to obedience classes, and she is super friendly to ppl and dogs. She just barks at them, maybe she wants to go play? She can bark on command too. I'll have to try the spray. Thanks a lot for all your help

[zerzzes]

I think your dog has established that she is the alpha leader in your family. You need to establish that you are the alpha. This is your first priority. Obidence training is a must, maybe try to do some more training in a class and on your own. As for the barking don't use a shock collar or the other collars on the market. Have a pop can with about 10 - 20 pennies in side with the top tapped up. Have it where your dog can't see it. When she barks give it a couple good shakes close to her and a very firm NO. You have to be super consistant. Consistancy is the key to sucess. you can also try a super soaker either with water or water and a little lemon juice or bitter apple. Aim for the mouth and again a firm NO.
Make sure she is getting lots of excercise. When she sees the other dogs outside keep her busy with a fav toy or pop out some good treats. Always make sure to praise her when she doesn't bark. Good luck and let me know how it turns out.

[DOGLVR]

My Skoob and now my Lilli barks preety much too. I do the same thing by going and looking out the window or door just to see what it is he's barking at. If it's someone walking by, I usually let him bark a "few" more times and if he's still going at it after their out of site (for a few) I kind of raise my voice somewhat almost if to scold him and tell him, "THAT'S ENOUGH SKOOB!" I guess I'm lucky, that's usually all it takes. Now when he was a little younger, he'd bark at the kids at the door for my kids. It got really anoying at times so I'd just call him over to me (if that didn't work I'd pick him up) and try to distract him by rubbing his belly. Just a thought, worked for me. Good Luck!:)

[lovemymaltese]

Good luck! I hope that you get a better response soon.

[sasvermont]

I knew a dog that barked in the car. After one trip of treats he stopped barking, and he got it. Eventually, a quiet car ride would mean one treat. Try it. I used goldfish (crackers, not real fish!).....

Dogs will do just about anything for a treat!

Let me know if it works.....!

Just say "NO barks"....and when he stops, say "Good doggie"...and give him a treat..... then do it the next time, assuming he will be right by your side or nearby when it happens. So you will be rewarding good behavior and discouraging bad behavior. When you find yourself in a situation wwhen you think he would normally bark, say the No barks thing, then good doggie, then give him a treat for NOT barking....

Good luck.

[slleipnir]

Thanks all. She TOTALLY ignores me when I correct her. This dog walked by and she HOWLED, and I said Jo! Thats enough! no bark!..then she'd stop for a min, and I'd say be good..And she'd howl again, not even looking at me. When I take her in, and make her sit in her chair thing, I tell her bad, and she wags her tail!? Like she's never heard it before? She has though. We have a big yard, so I can't run after her everytime she barks, cause she zooms away from me. I think she thinks shes the alpha too, but she does what she's told inside..so I don't know..

[zerzzes]

if she doesn't listen to you outside then I would keep her on a leash with a training collar (aka choke chain), that why when she does bark you can go out and correct her right away.Use a quick snap on the leash with a firm NO. Never let her get away with it. You must be consistant. If your friends with your neighbour then ask them to help you out too. If you have a wood fence then the dog won't see your helpers on the other side. When she does bark get your neighbours to use the shake can, a garden hose, or a squirt gun. Make sure to reward her when she is good. If she doesn't bark and then you give her a reward and then she turns around and barks correct immediately. Keep her on a leash when she is in the house too that way you can correct her. Make sure your entire family are all doing the corrections as well. The more people you have helping you the faster you'll curb the barking. Try setting her up by getting friends to walk by the house and see if she barks then correct or praise to the sky. If she loves treats pop her a treat or a fav toy. Same goes with ringing the doorbell, anything that sets her off to bark. The more setups you do the better results. Make sure she is well excercied since barking is a way they release energy that is built up. Does she have lots of toys to play with? Try a cap gun or an air horn. Don't set it off near there heads though. These noises usually startle them and thy stop. If your concerned about your dog's hearing from the cap gun or air horn consult your local vet. When someone is walking past get them to come up and give your dog a treat that way they associate people with good things.
Remember be CONSISTANT:)
Remember not to leave the training collar on her while she is left unattended.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Poor Josie! She just doesn't understand. :( In training you MUST make sure the dog learns the behavior before you can insist on them listening. And it takes a lot of repetitive training to get a dog to understand not to do something that is a natural instict to do.

She sounds like she is a dominant female. I don't think it's that she won't listen, I think it's that she has not be trained to listen! You need to learn to be alpha over her. She is just doing what comes natural, especially to a alpha dog, and that is keeping her territtory safe. If it is something that you do not want then you need to train her NOT to do it or condition her so she stops on command. DO NOT USE A CHOKE CHAIN and give pops with the leash when she is barking. Positive reinforcement is enough to correct this situation.

First though you need to understand that commands such as "That's enough, no bark" are ineffective in training. Your dog does not know the entire english language. She is a dog and thinks like a dog. If you want her to understand what you are saying she has to be taught. By saying long phrases, you are wasting your time and hers by saying them. What you need to do is establish a one word command Silent or Quiet. No bark is ok too but I like to use one word commands for clarity.

The process of getting Jo to stop barking is to teach her to bark on command. Once she knows how to bark on command then you can condition her to stop barking on command. Then when she barks in situations where it is unwanted behavior you can give her the command to stop and she will understand. Don't expect her to listen if she has not been taught and is only doing what comes naturally by instinct! :eek:

[slleipnir]

training collar (aka choke chain), that why when she does bark you can go out and correct her right away.Use a quick snap on the leash with a firm NO

I will never use a choke chain on her..I don't really think it's fair..but thats my opinion..

Dixie: Thank you. She does know how to bark on command, but if I tell her sometime else, something she doesn't 100% understand (or maybe she just wants the treat now) she'll bark anyway, even though I didn't ask for it. I tell her quiet, and if she does what shes told without barking, she gets her treat, if she does it but barks, then i just keep trying..Is that wrong? Maybe that has something to do with why she won't listen outside to no bark. It seems to be the only thing she won't listen to us for. If shes inside and sees dogs walk by, she cry, then I tell her to stop, and she stops, then she let a low whine out and sometimes growl at the door. If she sees a dog, I can't distract her, she doesn't want to play in these cases..I'm trying to make her see that I'm the alpha..or atleast higher in the pack then her. I'm not having any luck!
I've heard about this alpha roll? How does that work? like do you just push them on their backs? Jo would think I'm playing..

[zerzzes]

Everyone has there own opinions. Every dog is different so you'll have to adjust your training method according to each dog. I'm not saying you have to have a training collar on them. Keep her on a leash with a normal collar. As for establishing alpha there are many tricks. When opening a door for the house, or car don't let Jo be the first one out or in the door. Make her wait until you give her the ok. Don't allow her to pull on the leash when you take her for a walk, this is a sign that your dog is trying to establish they are the alpha. When you put down her food dish make her wait until you give her the ok. While she is eating take her food away and then give it back. You are telling her that I gave you the food and I can take it back too. If she doesn't have a problem with that...good. Do let her have her way all the time. If she is more or less telling you what to do for her then that is another sign that she is the alpha. Does she listen to anyone else in the family? Speak and a firm deep voice and lots of eye contact.
Does she sleep in a kennel at night? If she does then when she barks and doesn't listen put her in there. Giving her some time in her kennel during the day (1-2 hours) even though she hasn't done anything is good too. This way when she does come out she will be more intent on spending time with you then looking out the windows and wanting to bark.
Take in all the info you have received from everyone and adjust it to your dog. Not all dogs are the same, some dogs need less corrections and some need more. Do try to keep things positive.

[slleipnir]

Thanks. I don't always have time to take her outside on a lead, I'm very busy this time of the year. I do keep constant with her barking, when she's outside though, she DOESN'T listen..I call and call. When the dog leaves, I take her right in, and put her in her chair and tell her shes bad and she has to stay there for a while with no attention. She doesn't have a kennel..she sleeps in my bed at night..is that bad?? She crys ALL the time if you lock her away..like 1st thing in the morning. She did at our old house anyway, I like her with me anyway, its safer..shh..lol jk.

[zerzzes]

NO it's not a bad thing that your dog sleeps with you. My dog sleeps with me, he even sleeps on his own pillow...he made it his pillow. It's good that you are putting her in "her spot" when she does something wrong. I know it's hard to correct your dog, because i don't like to do it to my baby. When he barks at something i let him bark a few times and if he doesn't stop after 3-4 barks I tell him quiet and now he knows when I tell him quiet he is. It does take time since barking is a very hard habit for dogs to break. Think positive and things will happen. Don't let her sense your uneasiness since they can sense it and promots them to bark.
She doesn't need to be in a kennel..some dogs love kennels. I used one for my dog because he would get into trouble at night, but he was only a puppy. After awhile I would leave the door open and he could in and out as he pleased. Now he doesn't use it and I don't own one anymore. I know that I can trust him in the house while I'm home and away.
If you don't have time to watch her while she is out in the yard keep her in the house more until you can go and and supervise. Excercise is very important, if she is tired out she won't have enough energy to bark or care about dogs walking by.

[Dixieland Dancer]

OK, I am having a hard time with a couple of things on this post. First, if I understand correctly, when Jo barks and you don't want her to and you finally bring her in the house, you put her "IN HER SPOT". If this is correct, you are doing NOTHING to help her understand what she is doing wrong. You are only confusing her more because she has NO CLUE why she is in "her spot". She only realizes that you are upset and she better stay in her spot or you will get more upset. She has no idea why you are upset because you have done nothing to show her.

Second, I do not hear any kind of positive training going on to help Josie understand what you expect. Everything is telling her what a bad girl she is (and she doesn't understand). You can not train her while the situation that causes her to bark is occuring. This needs to be a learned situation in a controlled area first and then moved to where there is distractions.

Work on reinforcing the QUIET or STOP command. In this case perhaps STOP will work better since you can offer that command in more scenarios than just barking. Teach her to bark on command and then teach her to STOP barking on command. When you think she understands stop then you can have someone come over and help you creat instances where she will bark. When you get the desired behavior REWARD like crazy with treats and tons of praise. Let her know she did right. If she doesn't stop then clearly she still doesn't understand and telling her she is bad is of NO use.

I have been training dogs for over 25 years and have done negative vs. positive and trust me, my experience shows that positive reinforcement works much faster and more thoroughly than any negative training does. Basically because the dog is searching to please you and to offer the correct behavior and when they finally get it, it is something they WANT to repeat since it makes you happy.

Quit sending her into confinement for something she has no clue of what she did. And the only time I have a problem with a dog sleeping with their owner is when the dog thinks it is alpha. I also encourage making sure the dog sits at the door until you tell it to go out. Make sure you go in and out before her. As for the feeding, instead of taking her food away and then giving it back to her, try hand feeding her the kibble and making her work for it. This will be a more positive experience for her. I use this approach twice a day with my dogs to enforce and shape wanted training behaviors. They love it and look forward to EARNING their kibble instead of just putting it in front of them. And this is the number one way to enforce you are alpha over her. After all she HAS to eat so why not make it a learning experience.

[slleipnir]

Hm..thanks. She is my 1st dog that I have trained so I'm still learning..I just want the best for her..How do I be positive when shes howling and not listening? If I'm positive like "Come here girl!!" won't she be like.."hey, I'm barking and she doesn't care, shes even happy!!" ?? Secondly, shes only like that when shes outside not on a leash. If shes indoors, she listens to everything. So I don't know if that means she thinks she alpha all the time, or maybe shes just scared when ppl walk by. Her fur goes up on her back, and she whimpers. Its not just a little bark she does, she howls as loud as she can. I don't know how to make her know that barking is bad, I get her when shes barking and say to be quiet, then take her in..If she knows barking is bad, why doesn't she know thats why shes punished for it?? I guess I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong..I would get some type of trainer, but dad won't let me. Shes been in obedience 2 times and did extremely well. To me, it seems she feels her yard is hers, and she doesn't want anything by, or maybe she just wants to go play with the dogs walking by. I can tell her come, or sit or speak, and she'll do it, inside. So.........?

[DOGLVR]

I think I'd have to agree with "SLLEIPNIR" on this with the correcting WHILE she's barking. I don't see how a dog would understand about the "no barking" if you're trying to correct her/him when they're NOT barking???????????? Doesn't make since to me. I corrected my dog while the bark was in progress and guess what....IT WORKED! Same goes with potty training...catch them in "THE ACT" and you're more likely to see progress!!!!!!

[Dixieland Dancer]

Audrey, you are doing a great job with Jo and it is very apparent how much you love her. You have one advantage to training her that I didn't when I started out and that is a group of people on Pet Talk willing to offer suggestions and help and to gather from their past experiences. And please realize that I am learning all the time too!

Why do you think Jo understands that barking is bad? This is where I think the confusion is. How can she understand that a basic instinct to protect her territory (especially if she is an alpha bitch) is bad? I personally don't think she has a clue or she would listen because she wants to please you. And I don't mean you can not have an authoritative voice in getting her to realize you are not happy with her. However, making her have a time out in her spot when she doesn't understand is basically like discipling the dog just because. It serves no purpose.

The time to be positive is in the training phase. Not during the problem time. You need to set her up for situations where you can correct her in a controlled environment. Then work on the Quiet or stop command. Repetition is the key to getting her to understand.

Can you get Jo so excited in speaking that she will continue. I can get my guys fired up with toys and a invitation to play. I use the game of tug to get them going sometimes too. I do not play tug of war with them. I play tug. They are allowed to tug as long as it is controlled and when I say STOP they release.

Invite a friend over and have Jo outside and when the friend arrives see if you can get her to start barking. Then offer the quiet or stop and perhaps show her the treat to start with. Make it something she absolutely loves. I use chicken with my guys. The best thing to do is lure her until she understands the behavior and fade the lure once she catches on.

There is so much to this that it is kind of hard to explain it all in one post. Let's take it one step at a time. Start by working on controlling her barking and teaching the stop command. Work on this several times a day. When she will consistently stop when you are in the house then move onto the next step and move the situation to where the distractions are a little greater. One of my favorite places to fine tune behaviors before going into the obedience ring is at the pet store where there are tons of distractions. I know if I can get the dogs to keep attention on me and what I am teaching them, they will do fine in the ring.

Please let me know if any of this doesn't make sense. I want to see you and Jo succeed!

[slleipnir]

Thanks a lot. I'll try it. I guess I still have a lot to learn, but I guess I learn as I try new things on different dogs. I love working with Jo, and training her to do new things, while having fun at the same time. Earlier today, someone came to the door, and she barked, I told her No, and was gonna put her in her chair and ignore her, when I thought of what you said. I told her to come instead, and I grabbed a raggy towel and tried to get her to play so she'd ignore the noise. At 1st she just wanted into the kitchen, but then she started to play, and I told her how good she was for not barking anymore..I'm not sure if thats the same thing..if she doesn't hear it there, how will she know not to bark next time? Is that right what I did to help her learn?? Thanks again

[Dixieland Dancer]

Wonderful beginning. And she will learn not to bark the next time by you consistently training her in similar situations that you create for training exercises. And wasn't it nice to be happy with Jo instead of mad and having her put in her spot? She will learn you just need to be consistent. Remember to use the same command each time you get her to stop and only use one word, not phrases.

One step at a time. Let me know if you have questions anytime.

[Dixieland Dancer]

Originally posted by DOGLVR
I think I'd have to agree with "SLLEIPNIR" on this with the correcting WHILE she's barking. I don't see how a dog would understand about the "no barking" if you're trying to correct her/him when they're NOT barking???????????? Doesn't make since to me. I corrected my dog while the bark was in progress and guess what....IT WORKED! Same goes with potty training...catch them in "THE ACT" and you're more likely to see progress!!!!!!

I am not saying not to correct the dog while she is barking. I am saying the dog needs to know WHY she is being corrected. It is a natural instict for a dog to bark. Why would she think she is doing something wrong if you say ' STop barking and I mean now' or whatever phrase you use. Dogs learn from repitition and they learn faster from positive reinforcement for exhibiting wanted behaviors than being corrected negatively for unwanted behaviors. By teaching the dog to bark on command and creating situations where the dog will bark (ie. having someone come over and knock on the door or come into the yard - preplanned) you have control to work on ONE word commands and to positively reinforce so the dog can begin to understand what is expected.

In Potty training you set the dog up for success by taking them out frequently and praising when they go when told to so why not set the dog up for success with a barking situation? I hope this helps clear up what I meant earlier.

[slleipnir]

Originally posted by Dixieland Dancer
And wasn't it nice to be happy with Jo instead of mad and having her put in her spot?
Yeah, can't stand that puppy look!! Thanks for your help, but I'll probably have to nag at you more a little later :x

[Dixieland Dancer]

Anytime! Just let me know! ;)

[zerzzes]

I corrected my dog while the bark was in progress and guess what....IT WORKED!


ONE word commands and to positively reinforce


You need to set her up for situations where you can correct her in a controlled environment

These are the keys to success no matter what you are trying to achieve.

If you had taken Jo to training twice before I would go back to that trainer and talk to them. They would know Jo and you and any problems that you may have had. They should be more then happy to help you free of charge since you have paid them for training.

With everyone here offering some friendly advice I'm sure you'll cure Jo of that bad habit. Remember that just because she is showing improvements doesn't mean you should stop with the set ups. Keep doing it for another couple of weeks after she is 100%. Then after that do a couple of set ups a couple of times a month.

We know you and Jo can do it. :)

[DOGLVR]

I'm responding to the reply on my previous post.

I guess I just got lucky with my dog, I didn't have to go through all the trouble, or any trouble for that matter with having someone knock on the door etc. It took a couple of months to break my dog of barking CONTINUOUSLY but it worked for me with a STERN "NO SKOOB!" That's all I have to say to him if he gets on my nerves with all the barking. I will say though that if I don't tell him "no Skoob," he WILL continue to bark STILL. He won't stop on his own right away. That's ok though, I don't mind the barking especially if there's someone or something out there that I don't know about and if he goes over board with it, I'll just tell him to stop my own way. I guess everyone has their own ways and opinions on issues like this, I'm personally fine with the way things are going on my end with my fur babies AND the potty training.;)

[slleipnir]

If you had taken Jo to training twice before I would go back to that trainer and talk to them. They would know Jo and you and any problems that you may have had. They should be more then happy to help you free of charge since you have paid them for training.

They told me to use a bark collor, and it was for obedience, not really about her barking..She learned what she was suppost to learn, so I dont think I can take her back for that..?

[bellbell]

i am a newcomer, i would like to ask something about my maltese...
i adopt this dog for 1 1/2 years, at first, i taught her to pee etc in the dog toilet, i knew she understand, but she did not obey, later on i found out that when i am at home, she pee on the toilet, but left the faeces everywHere !! i said no to her thousand times, but still she disobey,i read from the book , it said that i needed to put some of her excretion on her toilet and told her this was the place where excretion can be done,,,the smell of the excretion made her know ! i tried to do that hundreds times,,,, but she seems enjoying left her excretion everywhere,,, so what can i do!!!pls help me : (

[zerzzes]

First of all don't let your dog have the run of the home. Keep your bedrooms doors closed. When your dog has learned where to do ALL his duties then you can leave a door open and then one day he will have the run of the house and you won't have to worry about anything. you have to keep a close eye on your dog and watch for signs that he has to do his duties. make sure he knows where he has to go.

[bellbell]

thank you for your help,.. i will try my best to teach her,,,,need more time and patient LOL