Frightened Cavalier

[wombat2u2004]

Hi All........
I have a problem which I hope someone may be able to help me with.
I have a 9 year old female King Charles Cavalier Spaniel....she has always been an inside pet, always lived inside the house with unrestricted access to the front and rear yards....and always received the family's attention full on. Just recently I was given a 6 week old Border Collie pup...a male .....which now lives in our backyard.
The problem is that the female Cavalier is almost catatonic whenever the pup comes near her.....we have tried and tried to get them together to be friends, but nothing works, she acts as tho she is frightened of the pup.
Because of this, the pup gets the backyard, and the Cavalier gets the front yard plus access to the house....but never the two meet.....it's sort of a difficult situation.
Is there anyone who may be able to give me some advice as what to do, to try and get the Cavalier to be friendly with the pup ???

[borzoimom]

Okay= first of all relax. They will become friends, but we need to control the bosterious baby in the pressence of our older little girl here. She doesnt understand he is a baby- she just thinks he is big and boysterious and no adult manners. I would suggest, when the puppy is quieter, holding the puppy, just let her get to know him. Control the situations where he could run at her- he just wants to play, to her it looks like a flying clumsy tank coming at her.
Collies are normally pretty docile but that is as adults. As youngsters they can get pretty wild. I actually like your idea of seperate yards to go out. It gives the puppy time to play and gives her a repreieve from his antics. Use inside the house to not only teach him play is for outside but also for them to become friends. This is going to take time.
Also remember when you scold the puppy, the older dog thinks- " see ever since this thing came in here "everyone gets in trouble". There fore try more distraction to the puppy . Start training clicker training. With the older dog, this should be easy. Tell the cavalier to sit, click and treat ( I use cheerios because they are small, quick and they wont fill up on them). Meanwhile work with the puppy. First click then treat, click then treat, - when the puppy understands that noise means something good, start with sit, click treat. Now you have both of them together- with their focus on you and not each other. Say sit, click and treat ( adult dog gets the treat first but be quick..)..
Getting adult small dogs, and big dog puppies will work with some work on your part. I use to have a Affenpincher, a 8 year old with young shepherd pups. Allow the older dog to correct the puppy " leave me alone" ( she wont hurt him- its mostly display) but use distraction as much as possible.
Remember to feed her first. Also if the puppy has to still get extra meal like lunch, seperate some of her food so she can eat when he does too. It wont take long before she realizes that in her mind she gets " more" with this guy around..

[Love That Collie]

Okay=
Collies are normally pretty docile but that is as adults. As youngsters they can get pretty wild. I actually like your idea of seperate yards to go out. It gives the puppy time to play and gives her a repreieve from his antics. Use inside the house to not only teach him play is for outside but also for them to become friends...

A "Border Collie" is an entirely different breed than a "Collie". Border Collies are high energy and NEED a job to do or they are prone to finding their own jobs which could be not to the liking of an owner of a bored Border Collie.
COLLIES and Border Collies aren't much different than any other breed of dog when they are puppies. Puppies are playful. Puppies are babies waiting to learn. I've had lots of Collies in my life but none were "wild" when they were young puppies. At this time I have a 4 month old pup and she's pretty docile for a puppy but the older male is of great help in also teaching her and he outweighs her by at least 50lbs. or more.

wombat:
It might be of help if you attempt to get them together when the puppy is tired and less wiggly. The pup being only 6 weeks old has virtually no manners if he wasn't taught too well by his littermates and dam. Is the Cavalier normally playful and outgoing? She is afterall a "senior" and has she been around many other dogs in her life? I don't know. If so how did she react? Border Collies as I said above are NORMALLY high energy but are VERY intelligent........VERY. And training him will be your key to not having a lot of frustration with him as he gets older. Border Collies are very active are Cavaliers?

[borzoimom]

opps sorry I didnt see border in that sentence but no reason you cant do the same here as far as training. Borders are more hyper but smaller than a collie pup would be .. This will still be okay- just do as I suggested in training..

[bluebird]

A six week old border collie puppy is living in your back yard???????????

What type of and how much socialization and training is this pup getting?

Bringing in an active puppy can very hard on an older dog who is not used to puppy enthusiasm. As Love That Collie said, they should be introduced in a controlled situation when the puppy is pretty much played out and not being such a livewire.

If the older dog has never been exposed to puppies before now, you're going to have your work cut out for you. If she will not correct the puppy herself, you'll need to do it for her in order to keep her from becoming too stressed out. The longer you keep them seperated the more difficult the task will become!

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Hi All........
Just recently I was given a 6 week old Border Collie pup...a male .....which now lives in our backyard.

I am sorry... but this is just plain CRUEL . let me ask you one question... how would you like to live in someone's backyard?? I do not think you would like that AT ALL. This puppy does not deserve to live with you AT ALL.

[wombat2u2004]

What on earth are you talking about ???
Of course my dog lives in my backyard......where else would he live ???
We have a decent rainfall in this part of the country, so he has lots of muddy puddles to drink out of, not to mention a dead cat I throw him for dinner each night !!!!! (Just kidding) .
The truth is....he has a great kennel, nice and warm and dry, lots of toys, certainly LOTS of attention, three meals a day, and a great big yard to run around in.
I'm sorry Lablover, that I haven't provided him with the latest Madonna style diamond necklace, but believe me.....for my little Border Collie pup...life is good !!!!!! Certainly much better than his siblings and parents, who are cattle dogs on a nearby cattle station...well...all they get is shouted at, a couple of sheets of roof iron to sleep under, the occassional kangaroo leg to feed on....AND...if they are lucky....they might get stomped on by an angry bull.
So don't you worry about my dog...k ???? He's probably better looked after than yours.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Thanks for the advice mate......it all makes heaps of sense.
Here's hoping that it all works.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Trouble is, the Cavalier hasn't really been exposed to other dogs. In the event where she has been, she has always tended to ignore them.
She is a lounge lizard also....never been really that playful...even as a pup.
Maybe thats why she can't really relate to the pups constant playfulness.
Thankyou for your advice, I'm going to try try all of what has been written on this board.
Wombat

[wombat2u2004]

Puppy Training ???? I've only had him a week !!!! I haven't had time to scratch myself let alone look in the bloody phone book for a training school. LOL
But rest assured.....he will be at the local puppy training centre within the next week.
As for socialisation....he has none at the moment, only with myself, and my family. The Cavalier who we HOPED would be his buddy....well....you know the story so far !!!!
I'm going to try the advice of all who have posted here on this thread, everyone has been so great and helpful ( except Labloverkeb ).
Wombat

[borzoimom]

Wombat congratulations on your new puppy. The only concern I have, is that a border collie is one of those breeds, if they dont have alot of interaction, like almost constant, something to do etc- they will make their own games.. Like digging holes, trying to get out of a fence.. etc. Six weeks old is awfully young. You really should keep her inside. I understand some people have outside working dogs- but this is a little baby. And I am sure a big yard out there all by herself is going to be pretty scary sometimes.
We have hawks here.. And one buzzed Zubin once when he was a baby- and he was over 14 weeks old, and 30 pounds.
I know you want the best for your puppy- but inside interactions, really is the best here.. Especially for a breed that needs to feel the people are in charge of activities..
Just my thoughts, and congratulations.. When you have time, we would love to see pictures of your new baby.

[wombat2u2004]

"let me ask you one question... how would you like to live in someone's backyard?? I do not think you would like that AT ALL."

Well that depends sweetie.
If it were your backyard.....I definately wouldn't like it.
If it were Elle McPhersons backyard ....I would like it.
If it were my backyard......I'd love it.

Yours sincerely,
Wombat xxx

[wombat2u2004]

Thanx for your reply.
Do you really think he should be inside ????
I mean he is doing so well outside, he seems really really content and comfortable out there.
He is certainly playful enough, and yes....he has dug his fair share of holes already, eaten a few of the wifes newly planted trees and demolished a few garden gnomes....but thats what pups do !!!! (Of course I get all the blame, but I figure its worth it....LOL).
I'm actually going to train him to sit in the back of my utility each day when he's older, so that he will be on my building sites with me each day......he'll have lots of timber offcuts to chew on...LOL.
As for a pic....I'll get one on here soon for you all....k ??? He's a chocolate and white (same as his dad, all the other pups and his mother were black and white). My daughter said he looked like a bear when I first brought him home....so his name is "Bear". Actually his dad had one wall eye, which is blue, Bear has two wall eyes. When he looks at me with those two blue eyes.....I melt....LOL.
Wombat

[borzoimom]

Thanx for your reply.
Do you really think he should be inside ????
I mean he is doing so well outside, he seems really really content and comfortable out there.
He is certainly playful enough, and yes....he has dug his fair share of holes already, eaten a few of the wifes newly planted trees and demolished a few garden gnomes....but thats what pups do !!!! (Of course I get all the blame, but I figure its worth it....LOL).
I'm actually going to train him to sit in the back of my utility each day when he's older, so that he will be on my building sites with me each day......he'll have lots of timber offcuts to chew on...LOL.
As for a pic....I'll get one on here soon for you all....k ??? He's a chocolate and white (same as his dad, all the other pups and his mother were black and white). My daughter said he looked like a bear when I first brought him home....so his name is "Bear". Actually his dad had one wall eye, which is blue, Bear has two wall eyes. When he looks at me with those two blue eyes.....I melt....LOL.
Wombat
Yes I do for several reasons. First of all = safety- this is a tiny little puppy. For hawks or anything. And as a puppy he would come to anyone, so he could even be stolen.
Second of all he could eat something in this chewing stage and hurt himself.
Third of all- if he isnt inside he will bond with things that are outside, verses you.
Finally- a dog that doesnt know how to house break, were something to ever happen you had to give him up ( things happen ya know like job changes or something) a unhousebroken dog is very hard to place. The concept of not going in the house where the people live, is a valuable trait to have if nothing else than the acceptance of dominance in the peoples wishes. Dominance may be a wrong word for this application but you get the point.
Also- he will stay cleaner, be more socialized to people, and easier to train as the puppy wont be so independant. YOU will be his fun and games- not some rock in the yard..

[borzoimom]

And one more thing to keeping him inside. the cavalier will be quicker to accept him if he is a member of the family.
He also needs his sleep, and willl sleep better in a quiet house than a busy outdoors. I have seen puppies that are sooooooo exhausted from being outside too much, they just fall asleep in your arms. As you can see, this is a baby..

[wombat2u2004]

Message understood !!! You are right, I must admit.
After reading your last two replies I have spoken to my wife, and she agrees with you to.
Sooooooo....tomorrow we will move him in :)
I won't wake him right now....I just had a peek, he's fast asleep in his kennel, its 12.41am here now, so I think I'll let him rest away the rest of the night right where he is.
I have a pic of him now to...just loaded it, not real sure how to attach it, you may have to help me on that one.
Thanx again.........
Wombat

[borzoimom]

You are more than welcome. I am here if you need to talk more about getting the adjustments. One more thought- I use to help with shepherd rescue, and honestly= the dogs that lived in peoples homes just seemed smarter to me. Maybe its the constant interaction etc, but they were obviously smarter.
Just remember the cavalier has to get use to accepting this puppy as a member of the family and not a outsider. And let her tell the puppy to "knock it off".. It sounds worse than it is, but even my two younger ones had to learn not to run at Hottie, who is older.. He tells them to knock it off with a warewolf growl.. lol.. ( soooooooo macho ya know..) .. And always pet the cavalier first, feed first, put the leash on first, give cookies first, and the lap ( yours) first.. She will relax. My mother had cavaliers for about 50 years, now 70 something, and they adapt quickly as long as she feels supported by you..

[borzoimom]

Message understood !!! You are right, I must admit.
After reading your last two replies I have spoken to my wife, and she agrees with you to.
Sooooooo....tomorrow we will move him in :)
I won't wake him right now....I just had a peek, he's fast asleep in his kennel, its 12.41am here now, so I think I'll let him rest away the rest of the night right where he is.
I have a pic of him now to...just loaded it, not real sure how to attach it, you may have to help me on that one.
Thanx again.........
Wombat
Sorry- how to attach is easy on this forum. First load to your computer like " my pictures". Then open this replay and type what you want. Then scroll down to "manage attachements, then click on browse and find the picture. Then click on load. and wait- after it is done- close the window.
Then in the reply click on "submit reply" in the attachment area- and POOF- instant picture.
Cant wait to see him.. !!!

[wombat2u2004]

Here he is..............

[borzoimom]

AWWWWWWWWWWWWW HE IS ADORABLE!!!! Love his color and markings!

[borzoimom]

how is it going???

[*LabLoverKEB*]

Okay, I apologize. But, you have absolutly no right to explode on me in my thread in dog behavior. Also, you don't really don't need to be rude about this, eathier.
:)

[tirsaac]

Here he is..............


aaaawwwwww..... he's soooo ccuuutteee.......

send him a hug for me,k .... :)

[wombat2u2004]

Well ok then....thats better.
Friends ????

[wombat2u2004]

I gave him your hug, and as usual he received it most graciously :)

[wombat2u2004]

Hi,
Yep....he's getting along just fine now. Every single day I can see the relationship with the Cavalier improving, altho they seem to be getting closer I seem to sense that the Cavalier has a sort of snobbish attitude toward the pup. Now, instead of running away from him in fear, she sort of sticks her nose up in the air and walks away from him...LOL. My misses swears that "Shirley" (the Cavalier) is almost human in her actions....LOL.
Visited your website this evening, my goodness that is such a great bit of work that you have done there, and your dogs are really gorgeous, you are certainly to be commended for your efforts. And you are from the Shenandoah Valley ??? I believe it is most beautiful there. Some years ago on a trip to the USA, I almost got there....set out from DC in the morning, the plan was to go to the valley, but after visiting Mannassas battle park and then onto Great Falls (or is it Grand Falls??? Forget now) we ran out of time and had to return to DC....so I nearly got there...LOL.
Byeeeeeee
Wom

[borzoimom]

Yes I live in the Shenandoah valley but I live on the top of a mountain.
I am glad things are progessing- if you need more help just private message me.. I am here..

[borzoimom]

That sounds like a much better situation.. Keep us posted..

[husky_lover]

Your Bear is soooooooo cute!!! Hope he is getting adjusted to his new "friend". Give them both lots of hugs and kisses!