facts on dog foods

[borzoimom]

Read this- this will make you sick.. Notice all the dog foods are basically made in the same plants.. And people wonder why I feed raw and have for 19 years.. I warn you- if you dont this- this is a real shocker.. http://www.dog-spoiling-made-easy.com/dog_food_ingredients.html

[Lady's Human]

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. :rolleyes:

[borzoimom]

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL lol yup!

[bluebird]

This article is old and not up to date!

[MajesticCollies]

Yup thats about the extent of some of those foods. And some of my co workers think I'm crazy when I tell them my grocery bill for the Collies is $250 month sometimes. I would never put anything but holistic food and raw in my Collies stomachs. Same with the treats. Ever notice most brands have the BHA and BHT in them. Yup been lookin at lables for years.

A normal days meal for my Collies is Steak (Venison or Beef) Chicken, liver and raw bones.
And for dinner 2 cups Solid Gold Hunden Flocken with Solid Gold SeaMeal Nutrients, 1/2 cup of Salmon, 1000mg Vit C, 400 IU Vit E and 1200mg Garlic.

This is a normal day for the collies. Some say they are spoiled, I say they are healthy. My Collies are Never sick.

[Lady's Human]

Not up to date, no references given, a couple of pseudo science giveaways (ALMOST the same as anti-freeze).......


As I said.....


Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again.

[borzoimom]

This article is old and not up to date!
Actually the fact is those companies still use rendering plants and that is the process. The only thing that has changed is like Nutro has had two recalls since then and a few others, but the process remains..

[MajesticCollies]

Well I tell you. I have first handedly toured the IAMS plant since I live a couple miles away. Its discusting and I wouldn't take money to feed my Collies that food. And they claim to be healthier than the grocery store brands. I guess the only thing that makes it safe is that it goes through a HACCP (Hazard Anyalisis Critical Control Point) environment. Which is an Oven. Hopefully and I say hopefully it kills all the bacteria that gets mixed into the food.

[borzoimom]

Iams killed 3 of my dogs from unknown cancer and made my toddler daughters immune system to shut down..
I know what you are saying Majestic collies ( which by the way- they sure are!!!) .. It made me sick after the fact. That was when I went to raw.
I keep bil jac as a back up in case I loose power up on this moutain. Number one they dont use a rendering plant to process, number two you add water it turns to instant mush...
Here is my collie I had. He has since passed on but I loved him dearly. His name was Ch.Beckonridge Tri to Remember ( captain) but was to die for in appearance. I also had two more- one a white with a merle head ( charlie) , and a rescued sable..

[MajesticCollies]

Aww hes a cutie. He looks like my sisters Capt Jack from my litter in April. Here he is at 4 mos old.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m298/majesticcollies/CollieswithJack003.jpg


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m298/majesticcollies/CollieswithJack002.jpg

[borzoimom]

I Want Him!!!!!

[bluebird]

Iams killed 3 of my dogs from unknown cancer and made my toddler daughters immune system to shut down. I won against them and Monsanto.
I know what you are saying Majestic collies ( which by the way- they sure are!!!) .. It made me sick after the fact. That was when I went to raw.
I keep bil jac as a back up in case I loose power up on this moutain. Number one they dont use a rendering plant to process, number two you add water it turns to instant mush...
Here is my collie I had. He has since passed on but I loved him dearly. His name was Ch.Beckonridge Tri to Remember ( captain) but was to die for in appearance. I also had two more- one a white with a merle head ( charlie) , and a rescued sable..

How did dog food manage to affect your toddler daughters immune system? :confused:

[borzoimom]

How did dog food manage to affect your toddler daughters immune system? :confused:
Because as a toddler she was eating a few pieces of dog food once in a while if I wasnt watching as I did free feed... Her immune system shut down, she ended up in NIH etc being tested for everything under the sun.. After 3 days, fine.. finally on a whim I had my dog food tested and sure enough- there it was ethoxquin in my daughter. She never got more than a piece or two- but thats alllllllllllll it took to shut it down. They say its safe beause they use it in caynee pepper and such with people but the fact is- you would have to eat 8 tablespoons of it every day, day after day to get the same as the dog does in their bowl...

[wolfsoul]

Not all kibbles are created equal, that's for sure. I feed raw but I atleast know what to look for in a kibble. Every kibble-fed dog I've had has had some sort of health issue. I look back and KNOW that a raw diet could have prevented it.

[borzoimom]

I feel the same way. Raw would have prevented the 3 deaths of my dogs, as well as keeping my toddler safe. Those months with her on those tests, and what they were testing her for, allllllll seems like a hellish nighmare.
Caution to parents- if you have a toddler, either dont use kibble diets, or put it up unless the dog is actually eating it. My daughter went through child gates ... I had no clue, althought I didnt like it, that a food my dogs were eating would be anything other than a choking hazard for my baby.. NONE.. I mean one piece a day of a found dog kibble on the floor caused all that?? I am a beliver now..
* by the way- now she is 20)

[bluebird]

Raw would have prevented the 3 deaths of my dogs, as well as keeping my toddler safe. Those months with her on those tests, and what they were testing her for, allllllll seems like a hellish nighmare.

Not necessarily! If a toddler were to manage to sneak a bite or two of raw food a day; the results could also be very serious.

[BC_MoM]

I think you're exaggerating, borzoimom. IAMS didn't kill your 3 dogs - it probably only added to problems that would have come on their own.

Feeding raw wouldn't have kept a toddler safe, it would have made her sicker than the dog food would have.

[cali]

no I have to agree that raw would have been safer to the toddler then kibble, because there wouldnt be raw food laying around for the toddler to eat, it would be either in the dogs mouth, tummy, or put away in the fridge with childproof locks.

[borzoimom]

yes cali- you are right... exactly!

[bluebird]

evidence... evidence..

Excellent point. This is a real shocker and certainly would have been a nightmare. But anyone who reads this can't help wondering if these claims are verifiable!

There have been some publicized cases of settlements due to bad batches of dog food that resulted in the death of dogs. But if a dog food company was sued for deliberatly making bad food that even harmed a child, that should have made headlines and led to landmark changes in the production of dog food!

When did this happen, how many dogs were involved and how did you manage to prove that the chemical the toddler had in her system came from dog food?

[borzoimom]

Excellent point. This is a real shocker and certainly would have been a nightmare. But anyone who reads this can't help wondering if these claims are verifiable!

There have been some publicized cases of settlements due to bad batches of dog food that resulted in the death of dogs. But if a dog food company was sued for deliberatly making bad food that even harmed a child, that should have made headlines and led to landmark changes in the production of dog food!

When did this happen, how many dogs were involved and how did you manage to prove that the chemical the toddler had in her system came from dog food?
Nope- mine is a real case.. Its me.. its us.. they paid.. but it didnt relieve the worries years later.. And reason why iams is now available in walmart.. They went from a top food to garbage.. And they found it in my daughter at NIH .. its a easy test once they know what they are looking for .. It starts as "toxic substance present"..

[bluebird]

Could you explain a little more about the situation?

It's hard to understand how a bite or two of kibble here and there could harm a child when hundreds of thousands of pets were eating hundreds of times that amount every day without any side effects.

Was it a just a single bad batch or was it in all that company's food that was being sold at the time? How many dogs died from the food other than yours? How did you manage to prove that the chemicals in your daughters system came from eating dog food and not from another source?

[borzoimom]

She was a toddler at the time. And got into the dog food as I free fed at the time about a few pieces a day. Her immune system shut down. She went from a cold to pnemonia in 48 hours, etc. After a few days in the hospital, she would be fine. Then back home here we go again. This went on for almost a year when NIH had me bring in everything to bring in I could the child would come in contact with, and on a whin I brought in a cup of my Iams.. -POOF INSTANT CULPRIT..
I really dont feel like discussing it any further. Some of this I cant on the the settlement, and quite frankly- it was a nightmare. How woud you feel if you child was tested for lyme, to aids, to cancer etc while you just sat and watched over an over..

[borzoimom]

See what people dont understand is- ethoxyquin is in people food, but as a perservative in cayenne peppers. But in order for you to injest daily what they would, you have to eat 5 tablespoons of cayenne peppers a day twice a day to get the amount a dog would...
I wish I didnt know so much about dog foods. It was easier when I didnt, but I do... too much.. over pain.. its awful!!! Its like knowing about cancer first hand.. same thing..

[bluebird]

She was a toddler at the time. And got into the dog food as I free fed at the time about a few pieces a day. Her immune system shut down. She went from a cold to pnemonia in 48 hours, etc. After a few days in the hospital, she would be fine. Then back home here we go again. This went on for almost a year when NIH had me bring in everything to bring in I could the child would come in contact with, and on a whin I brought in a cup of my Iams.. -POOF INSTANT CULPRIT..
I really dont feel like discussing it any further. Some of this I cant on the the settlement, and quite frankly- it was a nightmare. How woud you feel if you child was tested for lyme, to aids, to cancer etc while you just sat and watched over an over..

As I said earlier, it must have been a nightmare! But when making serious claims like this in a public forum it's important to be able to back it up with facts. Otherwise it's nothing more than speculation.

Whatever the case may be; that was a long time ago. It is completely irrelevant to the dog foods being manufactured today.

[borzoimom]

Actually it totally applies.. read this- now this was 5 years ago but keep in mind only thing that has changed is Nutro has had 2 recalls but the process on a rendering plant is the same . You have to understand, a rendering plant can add whatever to the mix without the mother company claiming it in the ingredients... The reason- we dont eat dogs and cat in this country.. http://www.dog-spoiling-made-easy.com/dog_food_ingredients.html

[borzoimom]

In other words- if we consumed dogs and cats, they would have to be careful of the chemicals they put in their feed like they do our cattle and chicken feed..

[bluebird]

Even 5 years ago doesn't relate to recent advancements in technology and processing.

Gee I was under the impression that we don't eat dogs and cats because we're a civilized country! :D

Are you saying that more care is taken when processing food for farm animals than when processing food for pets? :confused:

[borzoimom]

Even 5 years ago doesn't relate to recent advancements in technology and processing.

Gee I was under the impression that we don't eat dogs and cats because we're a civilized country! :D

Are you saying that more care is taken when processing food for farm animals than when processing food for pets? :confused:
Unfortunatley - yes. They can only add certain things in horse, cattle lamb etc feed because we consume them.. It is a sick fact.. doesnt that make your blood boil? It does mine.. Ethoxyquin and certain levels of bha and bht are not allowed in foreign markets because they do consume dogs and cats. Sick isnt it??/ But true!

[bluebird]

Yes it would make me angry if that's the case. Do you have any suggestions where I can find current information on that?

[Lady's Human]

You keep switching back and forth on this between "won in court" and a settlement with a gag order. Won in court would mean a trial, jury verdict, etc... which against a major company would have been published and easily found. A settlement is a different matter entirely, and is normally the company saying screw it, it's going to cost us more to go to court than settle it, and there are normally gag orders attached to that type of settlement.

Frankly, I don't believe the chain of events as you have posted them.

[borzoimom]

suit your self..

[borzoimom]

Yes it would make me angry if that's the case. Do you have any suggestions where I can find current information on that?
On what bluebird- what countries eat dogs and cats? Some of the Asian countries. They also have a ban on ethoxyquin.
If I remember right, its still banned in Canada and England. ( but they dont consume dogs and cats.. at least not to my knowledge. )

[Lady's Human]

The MSDS for ethoxyquin lists and LD-50 at 800mg/Kg acute oral toxicity. For such a "dangerous" product that is an unusually high LD-50. THe MSDS also lists no known carcinogenic effects, just contact irritation.

[borzoimom]

So does hydrogen peroxide, but if injested it will cause vomiting.
No offense, but I am supposed to be resting with major surgery coming this week.
I noticed alot of people were feeding raw, and felt safe to share my story with you all. Most are in a agreement. If what you are feeding works for you fine- mine does now, but really I am not interested in a witch hunt . Talk to you later on other posts- take care..

[Lady's Human]

Basically, if you can't back up the post with scientific facts, don't make the accusations.

BTW,H2O2 causes vomiting mainly because it is a base, mixing a base with acid causes the creation of gas, gas bloats the stomach and causes vomiting. (unless ingested in a strong enough concentration to cause tissue damage, then you have more to worry about than the vomiting)

[borzoimom]

I already have the facts. I know what I do and got what I got. Have a nice day...

[MajesticCollies]

Lady's HumanThe MSDS for ethoxyquin lists and LD-50 at 800mg/Kg acute oral toxicity. For such a "dangerous" product that is an unusually high LD-50. THe MSDS also lists no known carcinogenic effects, just contact irritation.

MSDS can vary from manufacturer to Manufacturer. Some also Say "Ethoxyquin may be harmful by ingestion and through skin contact, and "is" a skin and eye irritant. If anyone is really searching for a good dog food here is a catolog that will tell you everything (ingredient) that is in the product.
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/catalogue/catDog.pdf

[Lady's Human]

MSDS's are created from a centralized database, and have to be cross checked before publication, per OSHA. Multiple MSDS's can vary in wording, but CANNOT vary in hazard content.

[MajesticCollies]

Well I myself will stick with my Holistic Health and never worry about Preservatives. Not in food or treats. Dog food is a choice of the person. To each thier own I suppose.

[borzoimom]

MSDS can vary from manufacturer to Manufacturer. Some also Say "Ethoxyquin may be harmful by ingestion and through skin contact, and "is" a skin and eye irritant. If anyone is really searching for a good dog food here is a catolog that will tell you everything (ingredient) that is in the product.
http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/catalogue/catDog.pdf
The one I have says the same thing. It was told that the one that states low was for use in small doses of application. When it was used for a few years in pesticide Roundup, they changed it to more toxic for handling etc.

[Lady's Human]

MSDS data depends on the concentration of the chemical in a given product. The MSDS I pulled the data from was from an MSDS for pure ethoxyquin.

[JenBKR]

I almost didn't reply to this thread, and maybe I shouldn't....I am so sick of some people on here saying what bad pet owners some of us are for feeding a high quality kibble instead of raw. Please, just stop :( I can understand if I was feeding something low quality, but I feed Chicken Soup for the Soul to my crew, which is a high quality food. Could you just please not be so condesending to those of us who do not choose to feed raw? Thank you.

[borzoimom]

I almost didn't reply to this thread, and maybe I shouldn't....I am so sick of some people on here saying what bad pet owners some of us are for feeding a high quality kibble instead of raw. Please, just stop :( I can understand if I was feeding something low quality, but I feed Chicken Soup for the Soul to my crew, which is a high quality food. Could you just please not be so condesending to those of us who do not choose to feed raw? Thank you.
chicken soup is great! I dont feed it because I cant have something that might sweel in the gut with a VERY LARGE chested breed here. But I love the content.
Right now, my dogs are on bil jac. I know it turns to mush and being unable to do the raw because of recent surgeries, at least I know they are getting a diet that doesnt swell, and I have a 9 year old that has been fed nothing but raw food, and I know its not a shock to him..
I love my dogs... and their health is more of concern even over mine..

[BETH ROBBINS]

I've been feeding Ultra, but I am switching to Royal Canin. It's not raw, but it's a high quality dog food.

[borzoimom]

Royal Canin is pretty good too.. And timber wolf ( name?) but that one is not available in this area.

[JenBKR]

I apologize for my last post, I was tired and cranky, and there have been a lot of debates about raw vs. kibble on here. I don't deny for a second that raw is an excellent diet, it's just not for me at this particular time. :)

[borzoimom]

I apologize for my last post, I was tired and cranky, and there have been a lot of debates about raw vs. kibble on here. I don't deny for a second that raw is an excellent diet, it's just not for me at this particular time. :)
Thats okay= it does take preparation etc and committment. Actually right now, my guys are on bil jac until I feel better to do the routine again..

[lovingpaws]

Some organic foods
http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=home-tab

Sample diets on API
http://www.api4animals.org/articles?p=360&more=1

There are some great kibbles/canned food out there like the ones mentions, chick soup, Solid Gold and others like Innova, Bill Jac. When I had my first dog I got a book from the library Dr. Pitcaryn (spelling) natural health for dogs & cats. That was 1983. The book said basically what the linked article says. I talked to my vet about the book, the recipes in it, and he gave me some guidelines and I cooked for my dog. By the time I got my 2 & 3rd dogs, they were alot to cook for, but I was able to find "healty" options for canned & Kibble that I alternated. BTW cooking was inexpensive. My first to Goldens lived to be 14 1/2 and each came from a pet store (before I new better) My 3rd golden was already 2, and came from a friend who got him from a breeder. He lived to be almost 14.

[borzoimom]

My guys are back on raw after 4 days of back to bil jac while I recupperated.

[Ceph]

does anyone have a list of the good feeds? I have been feeding my dad's puppy purina one supplemented with moist natural choice lately, and it seems to have been doing well for him, but it sounds like it might make sense to change his feed...and neither I nor dad can in now way afford a raw diet. I am also getting ready to get a white shepherd puppy in a few months, and if someone could suggest a good puppy feed (I will usually get kibble and mix it with moist feed, once a day to once every two days). He is getting ready to leave puppyhood so I have to change his feed anyway.

thanks!!!

-Ceph

[buttercup132]

Um wow way to be rude.. Lady's human arent you related to Karen OWNER of the site?

EDIT: Lady's human is Karen's BROTHER know I can say it to you..do you know who YOUR talking to? I wouldnt be disrespectful to the moderator/creater of the site if you want to stay on here..

[borzoimom]

does anyone have a list of the good feeds? I have been feeding my dad's puppy purina one supplemented with moist natural choice lately, and it seems to have been doing well for him, but it sounds like it might make sense to change his feed...and neither I nor dad can in now way afford a raw diet. I am also getting ready to get a white shepherd puppy in a few months, and if someone could suggest a good puppy feed (I will usually get kibble and mix it with moist feed, once a day to once every two days). He is getting ready to leave puppyhood so I have to change his feed anyway.

thanks!!!

-Ceph
Well I feed raw but I keep bil jac as a back up. I live on a mountain top, and the power goes on and off easily. The generator only does the well and the heat if we dont have a fire going.
Here bil jac is easy to get, but there are some others I liked too- but cant get them any more- royal canin, solid gold, timberwolf, nutro holistic, and uhhhhh .. well one more.
Its late for me, but I can look into it if you want me too. I like the bil jac because its not just chicken but also organ meat, and it doesnt sweel. I have a deep chested breed, and we guard against a swelling food with our lives here.

[Ceph]

Well I feed raw but I keep bil jac as a back up. I live on a mountain top, and the power goes on and off easily. The generator only does the well and the heat if we dont have a fire going.
Here bil jac is easy to get, but there are some others I liked too- but cant get them any more- royal canin, solid gold, timberwolf, nutro holistic, and uhhhhh .. well one more.
Its late for me, but I can look into it if you want me too. I like the bil jac because its not just chicken but also organ meat, and it doesnt sweel. I have a deep chested breed, and we guard against a swelling food with our lives here.


Its not anything I need right now, but it is something that might be useful in the next couple of days...I am going home for Turkey-Break and I am going to start formulating a training / feeding plan for baby Jay. You have been awsome! Thanks!

-Ceph

[wolfsoul]

does anyone have a list of the good feeds? I have been feeding my dad's puppy purina one supplemented with moist natural choice lately, and it seems to have been doing well for him, but it sounds like it might make sense to change his feed...and neither I nor dad can in now way afford a raw diet. I am also getting ready to get a white shepherd puppy in a few months, and if someone could suggest a good puppy feed (I will usually get kibble and mix it with moist feed, once a day to once every two days). He is getting ready to leave puppyhood so I have to change his feed anyway.

thanks!!!

-Ceph
Congrats on your upcoming puppy! :) Where are you getting him from? I had a white shepherd, he was a sweet boy.

These are some foods I recommend: Innova (EVO is their best formula in my opinion), Solid Gold (Barking at the Moon is an awesome forumla), Nature's Variety (Raw Instincts is a great formula!), Canidae, Go Natural, Foundations, Summit, Healthwise, California Natural, Natural Balance...The only issue I have with Nutro Ultra is that they refuse to name their meat source (they cannot get into Canada during BSL scares) and use poultry fat. Otherwise I think it's a good food.

[borzoimom]

Its not anything I need right now, but it is something that might be useful in the next couple of days...I am going home for Turkey-Break and I am going to start formulating a training / feeding plan for baby Jay. You have been awsome! Thanks!

-Ceph
NO PROBLEM.. Have I mentioned my baby is engaged and getting married december 1... EVERYBODYYYYYYYYY CONGO!!!!

[crow_noir]

First off... Shouldn't this be under Health instead of Dog Breeds? ;- D

Second of all i've been wanting to find someone that feeds raw with success so that i can bring up a concern.

Whenever i could afford it i would feed King raw. However in the past two years he'd get really sick from some raw meat. I just figured it was his digestive system shutting down. Now there is a recue dog i'm trying to help place. She had been eating raw meat for three weeks (her own fresh kills,) with no problems. She was given some raw chicken from the store and got very ill. I'm beginning to think that there is something going on with the poultry in our area. What are your thoughts?

[crow_noir]

I've been feeding Ultra, but I am switching to Royal Canin. It's not raw, but it's a high quality dog food.

But i just want to share my experience...

King was loosing muscle mass bad in his last few months of life so i was doing everythign i could for him. I was researching the benifits and risks of garlic (AGAIN.) After careful consideration i decided to try feeding him kibble with out garlic in it. Then meant switching off of the tried and true Wysong and into the unknown. Tried Canidae, but for the third time he got violently sick from it (as did any dog visiting my house did.) Then i tried one of the kitty foods from Royal Canin and he seemed to be doing well on that so we switched him to one of the doggy foods. He started having other problems after a month. Took him to the vet once again... He now had a major protein definicency. The vet told us for what it's worth just switch him back to the Wysong, so we did and the new problems went away.

I wish you luck with the Royal Canin, but wanted to give you a heads up on a possible future problem. If it works out for you and your dog though... GREAT!!! :- )

[borzoimom]

Crow noir-
I have been feeding raw for 18 years. What do you need to know? If I dont have the answer, and several others that have been feeding it for a long time, and will hopefully find you an answer.

[Ceph]

Did the vet say anything about a Taurine deficiency? Most dog foods dont supplement Taurine (Amino Acid) because the dog can typically make it on their own from cystine and methionine....cats however cannot so their food is Taurine supplemented (deficiencies cause eye degeneration, possible myocardial problems and lethargy). It may be that he was doing well on the cat food because of that extra supplementation.

So for a dog that has no problem with Taurine that food might not be so bad, but it could be very dangerous for a dog that has problems synthesizing Taurine on his own.

-Ceph

[borzoimom]

again- right on Ceph. Taurine is also a water soluable vitamin, and most dog foods this is lost in processing. I add fish to my dogs diet every day.

[crow_noir]

The vet never mentioned a taurine deficency, but what you said makes a lot of sense. All the vet mentioned was a protein deficency.

Hindsight is 20/20 though... and it's a little too late to talk about it now. All i can do is file it away for future reference.


Did the vet say anything about a Taurine deficiency? Most dog foods dont supplement Taurine (Amino Acid) because the dog can typically make it on their own from cystine and methionine....cats however cannot so their food is Taurine supplemented (deficiencies cause eye degeneration, possible myocardial problems and lethargy). It may be that he was doing well on the cat food because of that extra supplementation.

So for a dog that has no problem with Taurine that food might not be so bad, but it could be very dangerous for a dog that has problems synthesizing Taurine on his own.

-Ceph

[borzoimom]

That is why I add a little fish.

[crow_noir]

Crow noir-
I have been feeding raw for 18 years. What do you need to know? If I dont have the answer, and several others that have been feeding it for a long time, and will hopefully find you an answer.


Whenever i could afford it i would feed King raw. However in the past two years he'd get really sick from some raw meat. I just figured it was his digestive system shutting down. Now there is a recue dog i'm trying to help place. She had been eating raw meat for three weeks (her own fresh kills,) with no problems. She was given some raw chicken from the store and got very ill. I'm beginning to think that there is something going on with the poultry in our area. What are your thoughts?

Basically, if i had no problems feeding dog raw before, and now i can't with out them getting seriously ill, do you think there is something going on with the domestic meat supplies around here. (Especially since any fresh caught mean didn't make them ill.) It doesn't seem to me that it was it would be the problems some people have with the switching between dry food and raw. I had no problems doing that with King for four years. (One month is too short of a time to tell with the foster dog i'd think.)

[borzoimom]

Some dogs have a problem with poultry. I only had one that did.. What are you feeding...

[fionapap]

Bobbie is my first dog so I am quite illiterate as far as dog raising goes. I follow whatever our vet tells us, but lately I am thinking that perhaps this is not the road to follow.

My 4 year old medium sized Griffon was brought up on whatever handouts were provided as she was raised on the streets in the "care" of a homeless alcoholic. Handouts consisted of potato chips, French fries, sandwiches, nuts and God knows what else. After having adopted her, we have tried to get her to eat dog food. We have tried all leading brands and the only one she grudgingly eats and that on occasion is PEDIGREE dry food and FROLIC dry food. Forget the canned stuff. She turns her nose on that.

She loves fish, chicken and meat in general, spaghetti or any kind of past, dairy products and doggie treats, especially salmon kibbles and smoke flavoured bone chews.

Both vets we have taken her to, insist on feeding her HILLS or SCIENCE PLAN "in order to avoid later health problems". I suspect however that they are promoting these labels for their own interest. They also said to leave her without food for 2-3 days in order to teach her to eat dog food. Well sorry, but after 3 days I couldn’t bear sitting at the table and having her watch our every spoonful.

I have tried cooking various fish or meats with rice or pasta (no onions or salt added) and included a little grated carrots or zucchini in hope that she would get some vitamins in her. Somehow she managed to eat all the fish or meats and leave the rest on her plate.


I have read in many of your comments that you feed your dogs raw food. The vets however are very stern about avoiding raw meats. Can you please give me some advice on what to feed her? Perhaps I should give her some dog vitamins as a supplement?

I want to keep her healthy but also have her live a happy life. :confused:

[borzoimom]

I saw your other post and will put most of the information here.
I have been feeding raw for 18 almost even 19 years now. It does take committment to do so, but I have found wonderful results. First of all- dogs would naturally eat raw meat. SEcond they can NOT GET salminella, or worms from raw meat etc like humans can because their digestitve enzymes are harsher, and their body temperature is higher than ours. As far as protection to yourself, simple meat preparation like you would for your own family- use a plastic cutting board, washing with soup and water, and your hands as well. I also use kitchen wipes that have bleach on them to wipe the counter surface.
To feed raw to an adult dog, you are feeding two percent of their body weight over two feedings or one percent twice a day. So my hundred pound dog gets a pound of meat twice a day. I then add in a food processor- a beta caratine veggie ( mine like yellow squash, or sweet pototoe, zuccinni) when add raw egg and the shell ( for calcium) yogurt or cottage cheese, process this- then add a vitamin- I like Missing link granular, and for my show dogs- I add " Hair of the dog" which is an Omega 6 and 3 vitamin made for long coat length. ( now all of mine get this hair of the dog, as I saw a result in my rescue to help with her thyroidism.)
For meat I use chicken thighs, or tripe, or ground turkey, chicken necks-backs, chicken livers, tipoli fish or mackeral.
How big is your dog in weight? Then I will pm you with ideas for the meat source.
All of this is raw. Including the veggies. If you cook the veggies, you will loose over half your beta caratine vitamins.

[Lady's Human]

As politely as possible.......

Dogs ARE susceptible to salmonella, and they most certainly can get worms from raw meat.


Feed raw, feed whatever you want, but DON'T SPREAD MYTHS!

[fionapap]

Bobbie is 31 pounds (14 kilos). She is what you would call a medium sized Griffon (probably mixed up with something else).

Thank you for the help. :)

[fionapap]

I thank you both for your opinions but now I am even more confused :confused:

[borzoimom]

Its simple- people that feed raw swear by it- those that dont, do others. Whatever you decide just stick with it. My vet supports raw diet, and several in my family in dogs do as well. Most borzoi people also feed raw, as the main concern in any deep chested dog is bloat. A raw fed dog will not bloat at least not from food swelling in the gut causing GVD.
The way kibble is made is with a process called extrusion. ( well at least most of the foods). This is at a high temperature destroying most of the B vitamins.
At 30 pounds the dog would eat a 1/3 of a pound of meat with about two tablespoons of the mixture I listed above. At 30 pounds chewing larger chicken bones would be hard, so I would use chicken wings or drumstick ground in a processor. If your dog has a poultry allergy, use beef, or fish, venison. I avoid pork. Its too high in a fat content raw. And usually seasoned as well.
If I can help you farther, just pm me. All of us believe we are feeding our the dogs the best we can and believe in it. I also like the fact that feeding raw doesnt need chemical preservatives or the use of vitamin E to preserve that can go racid in shelf life. ( one of the main basis for kibble recalls in recent years.)