Kids At Jesus Camp

[lizbud]

I noticed this article this morning & I wanted to see what you think of
this camp. It looks a little scary to me. What's your opinion?

http://www.theindychannel.com/family/9935738/detail.html

[Zippy]

Someone it sounds extrem(sp?)like praying over a geogre w.bush cutout but I would give my life for Jesus.He is my Lord and Saved Me.

[Catty1]

From Fiddler on the Roof:

Townsmans - "An eye for an eye - and a tooth for a tooth!"

Tevye - "Very good. That way the whole world will be blind and toothless."

If these were adults making their own decision - fine. But it is one adult running a very specific set of "lessons" for kids.

God help us.

Zippy, look up "Jonestown Massacre". Beware of people that create God in THEIR own image.

JMO

[JenBKR]

There is no question that I am a Christian...but that camp looks wayy extreme. To compare it to an extremist Muslim camp? That should say something about it right there. Shouting at kids "this is war?" Yikes! A bit scary IMO.

[caseysmom]

That is really scary.

[Zippy]

Zippy, look up "Jonestown Massacre". Beware of people that create God in THEIR own image.

I think that camp is horriable! It sounds like a cult. :mad: It also makes Christans look bad.
but I would give my life for Jesus my Lord and Savior.

[Karen]

We do not know the truth of the camp from one article, nor even from the movie, according to a radio interview I heard with the woman who runs the camp. Keep in mind that the filmmaker has a point of view he is trying to get across, and that may color the truth.

[JenBKR]

but I would give my life for Jesus my Lord and Savior.

I agree!

[Blue_Frog]

The 'crying to god' part got me remembering. I was in College, and had a friend who kept trying to get me to go to 'youth group' on a friday night. He asked me - very friendly - almost every week, but I was always busy, and not at all religious so just really didn't have the interest. One friday I turned out to be free. So I agreed to go, while keeping an open mind about the whole thing.

Everything seemed fairly normal (based on previous youth groups i had attended with friends as a one-off visit) - people chatting, etc.

Once the person (minister, leader, whatever?) showed up and started preaching, there were kids (this was a group for like 8-25yo) screaming, crying, talking in tongues (seriously), and falling to the floor crying out to god and jesus and such.

I left - i couldn't handle it. I was still friends with the guy for the rest of college, but I never went back to youth group.

This article kind of reminded me of that - the whole atmosphere. To each their own I guess, but it was rather disconcerting watching a 10 year old boy rolling on the floor speaking in tongues and crying.

[areias]

The camp seems to be very extreme. To each is own though, I suppose, as long as the parents know what their kids are getting into.

But these paragraphs in the article made me cringe, it has a very bad choice of words:


"If you look at the world's population, one third of that 6.7 billion people are children under the age of 15," Fischer said. "Where should we be putting our efforts? Where should we be putting our focus? I'll tell you where our enemies are putting it. They're putting it on the kids. They're going into the schools."

Fischer went on to say that Muslims in other countries are taking their kids to camps like "we take our kids" to bible camps. She said Muslims are teaching their kids to use rifles, how to put on bomb belts and to use machine guns.

"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."


No no no, I wouldn't say "Muslims". I would say terrorists, extremists, etc. You cannot lump a race together and make that statement. A good majority of the Muslims aren't sending their kids to camps to come kill themselves over here. They WILL defend themselves if necessary, but...that just bothered me.

[lizbud]

There appear to be direct quotes of the lady in charge of the camp in
the article.I don't know how anyone would mis-interpret what the woman
said.It is what it is. Seems way beyond the norm to me. Jesus Christ never
asked children to die for him, it's the other way round.

Getting young children to fall on the ground & cry to show their commitment
to Christ is extreme, to say the least.All the talk about fighting & dieing for
for Christ is dangerous & extreme. Where are the Christian ideals of love,
peace ,understanding & forgiveness?

[animal_rescue]

I don't know.. it looks extreme on the movie. But it reminds me of the same church I went to when I was little and I loved every second of it. Yep it's seems to be exactly like my church. Aside from the "war" stuff. I remember people falling on the ground and crying and talking to God. Course I remember it was usually the older people that did it.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Yikes!! :eek:

Thankfully we never were never asked if we would sacrafice our lives at girlscout camp...

[Edwina's Secretary]

We do not know the truth of the camp from one article, nor even from the movie, according to a radio interview I heard with the woman who runs the camp. Keep in mind that the filmmaker has a point of view he is trying to get across, and that may color the truth.

If this is the case, then we cannot believe anything anyone says as everyone has a "point of view."



I am terrifed of fundamentalism...whether it be christian, muslim or moon worshipper...



In a related article in this Sunday's paper I read some fundamentalists are now focused on outlawing birth control....(Terry Schiendler...however he spells it...for one...) as the root cause of abortion and most other evils....

Be afraid...very afraid...

[dukedogsmom]

Gotta love those crazy fundies.

[RICHARD]

I went ot Catholic School for 8 years..

"nuff said!

[signorelli21]

i found it interesting that so many people responded by saying that they would give their lives for jesus because he is their lord and savior.

anyway, sounds like a few of the camps i went to as a child.

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

I don't think it is at all extreme.

You have to consider the author of that article.. which very much paints it to be extreme with their choice of wording.

I went to a penticostal church for about 4 years... and I can't tell you the number of times i was on the floor literally crying and praying for something i was passionate about. They were praying about abortion... it could have been a pet lover praying over a picture of their terminally ill cat... would it have been so extreme then?????

I get excited hearing about kids so passionate about Jesus!!!
And the lady telling them there is a war... well there is. A war against good and evil..... God and the Devil.

[jackie]

"It's no wonder with that kind of intense training in discipling (sic) that those young people are ready to kill themselves for the cause of Islam," Fischer said. "I want to see young people who are as committed to the cause of Jesus Christ as the young people are to the cause of Islam. I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are over in Pakistan and in Israel and Palestine and all those different places. Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."

This sounds sick, just what the world needs, more religious extremists.

:(

[mugsy]

I wonder is she is a member in good standing of Pychos R Us!

[Miss Z]

Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth."

And there is the reason why I *personally* steer WELL clear of religion!

[popcornbird]

But these paragraphs in the article made me cringe, it has a very bad choice of words:


I agree with that completely. Those paragraphs were absolutely disgusting. As a Muslim, I know very well that hardly anyone of my faith sends their kids to any camps that teach kids to kill themselves. PUH-LEASE...:rolleyes:

As to crying? It all depends on what the crying is about. Tears come out from sincere feelings, passions, beliefs. If it is fake crying and wailing, there's a major problem, but if a believer sheds tears while praying to God, it only shows the extent of their faith.

I am a Muslim, and...when I read the Quran, certain verses make me cry. When I pray during the night, I sometimes find myself in tears. It has nothing to do with extremism. It has to do with the beauty and depth of God's words, in that it just grasps your heart. If you believe, then there are no tears more beautiful than those shed because of your faith and sincerity to God. Those tears are uncontrollable. They just come. When you love someone, sometimes, you shed tears because of that love. I cannot count the times I have shed tears over my husband, just out of my love for him, and for no other reason. Likewise, when a person deeply loves God, when they remember Him, the tears come out. It happens to me, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Throwing yourself to the ground and crying loudly doesn't seem very 'real' to me though. Tears that come out of deep faith usually come out when you are alone, praying, feel an individual, strong connection with God, and cry.

What bothers me about this camp is not that they cry for their faith. Its what is written in their article. Seems like a camp that spreads hate against other people. :(

[Pam]

I don't think it is at all extreme.

You have to consider the author of that article.. which very much paints it to be extreme with their choice of wording.

I went to a penticostal church for about 4 years... and I can't tell you the number of times i was on the floor literally crying and praying for something i was passionate about. They were praying about abortion... it could have been a pet lover praying over a picture of their terminally ill cat... would it have been so extreme then?????

I get excited hearing about kids so passionate about Jesus!!!
And the lady telling them there is a war... well there is. A war against good and evil..... God and the Devil.

Sara thank you for that. Although I have never heard of the Jesus camp, I believe there is probably more to it than we are reading. The only war I have ever heard of as a Christian is, like you say, the war between good and evil. I would have to know a lot more to judge them. There is an old hymn we sang years ago in church and is probably still sung today - - *Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before.* It refers to the war against evil and that is all there is to it. I think the story is written to create hype and stir up criticism. Believe me, if it was teaching anything else I wouldn't agree either.

[popcornbird]

I don't think it is at all extreme.

You have to consider the author of that article.. which very much paints it to be extreme with their choice of wording.

One more thing. I don't think anyone would ever give that benefit of doubt to Muslims when they hear things on the news, portrayed by the author in an extreme way... :(


A war against good and evil..... God and the Devil.

Isn't that what war is about? Its a matter of perspective. In a war, both sides are fighting 'evil' on their part, and based on their perspective. Why else would they fight if they didn't believe they were fighting evil, or the people on the side of the 'devil'?

[caseysmom]

One more thing. I don't think anyone would ever give that benefit of doubt to Muslims when they hear things on the news, portrayed by the author in an extreme way... :(


PCB...I always look at the news as sort of being slanted toward muslims because I know many and know they are portrayed unfairly. I hate not being able to trusy any news.

[Karen]

If this is the case, then we cannot believe anything anyone says as everyone has a "point of view."

My point is not that we can never believe what anyone says, because everyone has a point of view.

My point is that, before forming a strong opinion, one should to get to the facts of the matter, which probably means gathering information from different sources. Yes, that's "work," but it is the responsibility of thinking human beings.

My mother was a journalist who belived that opinion belonged on the Op Ed pages, and nowhere else in a newspaper. A true journalist should never taint the story with their own opinions, should cover, for example, candidates from both parties without you - the reader, being able to tell whether the reporter writing it was a Republican, Democrat, or Independent. She was sad to see the huge increase of "opinion" creeping into news stories, and that was back in the 1980s and 1990s!

[Edwina's Secretary]

My point is not that we can never believe what anyone says, because everyone has a point of view.

My point is that, before forming a strong opinion, one should to get to the facts of the matter, which probably means gathering information from different sources. Yes, that's "work," but it is the responsibility of thinking human beings.

My mother was a journalist who belived that opinion belonged on the Op Ed pages, and nowhere else in a newspaper. A true journalist should never taint the story with their own opinions, should cover, for example, candidates from both parties without you - the reader, being able to tell whether the reporter writing it was a Republican, Democrat, or Independent. She was sad to see the huge increase of "opinion" creeping into news stories, and that was back in the 1980s and 1990s!

A documentary film maker is not what I would call a journalist!

The guy who made the documentary on the evils of fast food (Supersize Me, I think???) had an agenda as well... but I don't believe I need to study the publications of the trans fatty trade group in order to be a thinking human being about the issue...or before forming a strong opinion on the subject!

And why do you assume creep in the report about the documentary?

[Catty1]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/umedia/20060926/cp.34023cbf18117eba155ababf346b9e93

[Luvin Labs]

Camps like that are exactly why I will be teaching my children in my own home about religion, and not some teacher or church or person...

just reading parts of that are wiggin me out.

[cyber-sibes]

At least the kids at this camp are NOT being taught to use rifles, blow themselves up, or chop people's heads off. I was raised Catholic and remember being told that if we die for God that we are martyrs and go straight to heaven. This really appealed to me as a 9 year old, but did I have any idea what the priest really meant? NOT! At least they didn't strap bombs on us and send us on suicide missions to blow up atheists.
Extremism is never good, it is a warped version of passion. If people truly wanted to follow in the paths of God-Jesus-Buddha-Mohammed, there would be no violence against anyone.

[Karen]

A documentary film maker is not what I would call a journalist!

I thought documentarians were supposed to be, but the industry has obviously changed dramatically.



The guy who made the documentary on the evils of fast food (Supersize Me, I think???) had an agenda as well... but I don't believe I need to study the publications of the trans fatty trade group in order to be a thinking human being about the issue...or before forming a strong opinion on the subject!!

Of course you don't, because you are a thinking person and have your own experiences with food and maybe even the fast food industry that you will naturally take into account as well.




And why do you assume creep in the report about the documentary?

I don't understand your question. Rephrase?

[signorelli21]

I get excited hearing about kids so passionate about Jesus!!!
And the lady telling them there is a war... well there is. A war against good and evil..... God and the Devil.


i was under the impression that the war against good and evil was over after the crusades, inquisitions, and witch trials had killed off all the non-believers.

its funny that people on the good side always talk about fighting evil when all they are really doing is fighting each other. how often do you see atheists or satanists ( real ones, members of the church of satan are glamor seekers, like people that pretend they are vampires.) blowing up abortion clinics, mass suicides, etc.

the so called evil people are ones who merely do not share your beliefs, yet the ones who do share similar beliefs ( jews, muslims, etc) are often pursecuted anyway, because you have the truth and they don't or whatever.

and for the record, god created everything, which means he created evil, which means that he is evil. god also created man in his image, which tells you alot about his character, or lack therof. teaching children anything other than how to make rational decisions and ask questions before coming to conclusions is similar to the nazi youth camps.
if all of your differing religions are so loving and perfect, why is it that all they seem to do is fight with each other, the theory is sound but the execution is terrible.

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

i was under the impression that the war against good and evil was over after the crusades, inquisitions, and witch trials had killed off all the non-believers.


2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

War : to me as a christian is not people fighting people.. just as i said... but against good and evil.... I believe in a spiritual war..



the so called evil people are ones who merely do not share your beliefs, yet the ones who do share similar beliefs ( jews, muslims, etc) are often pursecuted anyway, because you have the truth and they don't or whatever.


who are you speaking for? I never said evil were the ones who didn't share my beliefs. Anyone who has religious beliefs wether they be christian, muslim, jew, pagan are persecuted.... not just the ones who don't share my beliefs!




and for the record, god created everything, which means he created evil, which means that he is evil. god also created man in his image, which tells you alot about his character, or lack therof.

For the record????? What scripture or anything do you have to prove God created evil? What control did God take over Lucifer's thoughts when he decided he was greater than God... what control does God have over your thoughts and decisions?

When God created man in his image man was perfect and without sin! So that says A LOT about God's character.

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

One more thing. I don't think anyone would ever give that benefit of doubt to Muslims when they hear things on the news, portrayed by the author in an extreme way... :(



Isn't that what war is about? Its a matter of perspective. In a war, both sides are fighting 'evil' on their part, and based on their perspective. Why else would they fight if they didn't believe they were fighting evil, or the people on the side of the 'devil'?

I'm sorry if you took my comments the wrong way.

Not *everyone* would give the benefit of doubt to muslims... but there are some who will. Every religion has their extremest.... and unfortunatly i believe muslims are in the spotlight now because of 9/11.. For some reason people want to hold onto their prejeduces (sp) without searching to find out what a person is really about. Espically the media... and people who write articles to persuade their readers that what they believe is the truth.

again.. and when i was speaking of war... i didn't mean a "physical" war.. but a spiritual war against good and evil... through prayer.. not fighting.

[Pam]

Good Morning America just aired an interview between the woman who runs the camp and Diane Sawyer and Chris Cuomo. There was a man there representing the other side but I forget his name. It was a good interview and if you are interested, and can catch it, I would suggest watching it.

My only comment after watching would be that I understand the woman's concern over the children having to live in this world and dealing with so much these days in the way of getting involved with *evil* things, etc. that can hurt them. What I don't agree with is her method. When I taught my children about God/Jesus I was careful to first explain how much He loved them. Jesus loved them so much that he died for them. Some people are so afraid of God that they are never able to love Him. They look to Him with great fear. That is such a shame. He wants us to love Him as we love our earthly fathers. Of course we have a mix of love and respect for our earthly fathers and that is why God likens Himself to our father.

I have a five year old grandson. He is learning about Jesus, and his love for Jesus is child-like as it should be. Would I want to see him crying and crying over his sin? NOT AT THE AGE OF FIVE! I am against anything that takes a child into adulthood without ever being able to be a child. When he asks honest questions about God/Jesus it is the sweetest most pure thing you'd ever want to hear.

For an adult it is completely different. We have lived long enough to accumulate some sins unfortunately. :) In some cases the things people have done cause them great sadness, and crying for repentance is absolutely normal. I was not able to watch The Passion of the Christ without crying. I am not a fanatic but just someone who realizes the depth of God's love and will eternally be grateful.

As in so many things, presentation is everything. I personally believe in another approach but we live in a world with as many different approaches to things as there are people. Would I send my child to Jesus Camp? No. Do I teach them to avoid evil and be good? Yes. We all want the same result.

[JenBKR]

2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

War : to me as a christian is not people fighting people.. just as i said... but against good and evil.... I believe in a spiritual war..



who are you speaking for? I never said evil were the ones who didn't share my beliefs. Anyone who has religious beliefs wether they be christian, muslim, jew, pagan are persecuted.... not just the ones who don't share my beliefs!




For the record????? What scripture or anything do you have to prove God created evil? What control did God take over Lucifer's thoughts when he decided he was greater than God... what control does God have over your thoughts and decisions?

When God created man in his image man was perfect and without sin! So that says A LOT about God's character.

Exactly! I also believe in the war between good and evil, but not a physical war. God created man in His image, giving us free will.....it was Adam and Eve who chose to commit the original sin. Man commits sin, not God.

[JenBKR]

My only comment after watching would be that I understand the woman's concern over the children having to live in this world and dealing with so much these days in the way of getting involved with *evil* things, etc. that can hurt them. What I don't agree with is her method.

Totally agree. I do some children's ministries work in my church, and I so love seeing kids get passionate about Christ. But her methods concern me. When the kids I work with get passionate, they are usually excited about God's love and what He has done for us. Their faces light up, they pray, and tears are sometimes shed. But this camp seems extreme to me, at least some of the methods. Although, I agree with what some others have said in this thread, I think I would need to see more to really be able to form an opinion. I think I'd be interested in seeing the whole documentary.

[Blue_Frog]

Originally Posted by Pam:
Good Morning America just aired an interview between the woman who runs the camp and Diane Sawyer and Chris Cuomo. There was a man there representing the other side but I forget his name. It was a good interview and if you are interested, and can catch it, I would suggest watching it.
I think this might be the interview you were talking about --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBWG4U1ul20 -- I haven't had time to watch it yet tho, but will on my lunch break. :)



Originally Posted by Pembroke_Corgi:
Yikes!! :eek:
Thankfully we never were never asked if we would sacrafice our lives at girlscout camp...
You mean YOU never had to pledge your life to Lord and Lady Baden Powell? ... and here all I got in exchange for my life long commitement was some of that orange drink ;) (yep, way too many years with the Girl Guides) :D

[lizbud]

Blue Frog, thanks for the link. I've never seen the interview before.Think
I'll check it out now.

[Edwina's Secretary]

You mean YOU never had to pledge your life to Lord and Lady Baden Powell?

Please don't leave out Juliette Gordon Lowe....one of my childhood heroines! :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

Of course you don't, because you are a thinking person and have your own experiences with food and maybe even the fast food industry that you will naturally take into account as well.



Same goes for fundamentalist..... :D

[Blue_Frog]

Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary

Please don't leave out Juliette Gordon Lowe....one of my childhood heroines! :D
I didn't know that -- ya learn something new every day! They don't cover her in Canadian guiding, so I had to go read up on her on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliette_Gordon_Low)! :D

(poor woman, deafened in one ear by silver nitrate, and in the other by a misplaced projectile rice at a wedding -- what bad luck!)

[cali]

Because we have, excuse me, but we have the truth.

this part really bothers me, I am not realigous personally, I DO beive in god, but I dont disbelieve in on other religions deitys, whos says that have the truth? oh right, they did lol there is a big difference between "truth" and "belief" everyone has their BELIEFS but not one single person on this planet has the TRUTH.

[signorelli21]

[QUOTE=Sara luvs her Tinky]2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

War : to me as a christian is not people fighting people.. just as i said... but against good and evil.... I believe in a spiritual war..

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."
3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. [a]

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

NUMBERS CHAPTER 31




For the record????? What scripture or anything do you have to prove God created evil? What control did God take over Lucifer's thoughts when he decided he was greater than God... what control does God have over your thoughts and decisions?

god created everything, good and bad, if he created the good angels, then he created the bad ones. if he is omnipresent then he knew that the devil would be evil from the beggining. heres a verse from the book of job showing his influence over lucifers thoughts.

6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [b] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

job chapter 1


i didn't mean to offend you and i am sorry if i did.
the fun part about the bible ( i quoted the bible rather than the quaran because i know it the best) is that you can come back with verses from other parts of the bible to retort all of the ones i posted. but what i noticed from church and bible study is that verses are often taken out of context, and can be easily misinterpreted. it just seems silly to me that people only seem to acknowledge the good parts of the bible and ignore the rest and just blame it on satan, when in reality satan is just following orders.

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

i didn't mean to offend you and i am sorry if i did.


you didn't.... :)

I read your post... and the way i feel is people read the bible and of course interpret it differently... and we do! We will just have to agree to disagree! :)

[Lady's Human]

Satan following orders? I must have missed that part in Sunday school, bible study, etc. :confused:

The Old Testament and the New testament are two very different books, and without context it is impossible to take a verse or two and meaningfully prove a point.

[Cataholic]

All I remember from church camp (aka, VBS!) was lots of cool crafts, and SNACK!!!!!! :D

[Edwina's Secretary]

The Old Testament and the New testament are two very different books, and without context it is impossible to take a verse or two and meaningfully prove a point.


I admit to not understanding much of this...but if a verse or two cannot be taken to meaningfully prove a point (although I think "prove" might be a stretch in any case) why do people quote scriptures at all?

[JenBKR]

All I remember from church camp (aka, VBS!) was lots of cool crafts, and SNACK!!!!!! :D


Love love love VBS!! Sooo much fun :D

[Lady's Human]

Scriptures are taken out of context (Both historical context and religious context) all the time, and removing the verse from its context in many cases can twist the meaning. Why do people do it? For the same reason people take 10-20 words out of hour long speeches and ignore the rest of the speech. It's handy to prove points, and as long as no one does the research to find out the context, can easily sway arguments.

[Cataholic]

I admit to not understanding much of this...but if a verse or two cannot be taken to meaningfully prove a point (although I think "prove" might be a stretch in any case) why do people quote scriptures at all?


It is like quoting case law- makes me seem really, really important and smart? :confused:

[Edwina's Secretary]

But...LH....you said "impossible to take a verse or two and meaningfully prove a point."

So...if it is impossible to meaningfully prove a point....how is it
It's handy to prove points

I am so confused!!!!! :confused: :confused: :confused:

And doesn't "Prove" mean to establish the truth? And how do we establish the truth if we aren't there?

All this proving going on confuses me so.....

[Lady's Human]

edit that to say "Its handy to appear to prove a point"

[columbine]

Exactly! I also believe in the war between good and evil, but not a physical war. God created man in His image, giving us free will.....it was Adam and Eve who chose to commit the original sin. Man commits sin, not God.That concept turns up in the Koran too (article here (http://www.racematters.org/gholamrahman20011002.htm)). War is a consequence that humans have faced from the beginning, and so a handy metaphor for the constant struggle against the enemy within (temptation to do wrong), but it's caused no end of suffering when taken literally. Whoops, wrong verb tense. It causes no end of suffering when taken literally.

Love, Columbine