Do you belive in God? why?

[Argranade]

For me I was born into being a Christain.

I used to just where dresses and would never cut my hair.
Things got harder and I changed but never gave up my faith but right now where not going to church and I stoped with the dresses and turned into a well...what some people dont like a Punk. :o

Why you may ask do I belive in somthing that has never been seen?
Simple I just do.Nevermind Science and all that other stuff
''Its those who belive in what they dont see that have the greater faith''
For me God is jesus or the lord and he's all just one person to me.

There is a person who has seen God and painted a picture of him in his humane form and trust me this painting is so real towards all the others and I have a copy in the house.
Its also my dreams that give me faith there like no other in my family they each have a diff story but then thats another story...

Heard of William Braham? read or listen to his taps he is a speacail person you probably have never heard of him it seems they keep his stories away.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/white_creatures/braham3.jpg

This picture was proven not to be fake at all it was taken a very long time ago and this man had many amazing stories and preachings.

This may sound like a bunch of crap but he had a vision of hell and heaven he spoke to animals that could have hurt him and he even held the sword of god (Bet ya didnt even know there was one). :p

Remember you dont have to belive it but I shur do. ;)

[CathyBogart]

I am a praticing pagan, so neither of these answers really suits me. I believe in many deities, not just one, and I do not worship them.

Awhile back, we had a really great thread where a lot of people told us about their various religions without fighting. It was a very educational thread for me. :)

[Kfamr]

I wish there were a third option.

"Undecided"


I do not know whether or not I believe in a God or Goddess. I do not need religion or such a belief in my life to be happy or to wake up in the morning. I choose to live life based on today, not worrying about what is going to happen when I die.

I think the off ways of some religions has swayed me from believing in a God/Goddess. I have been to churches - of several different beliefs - however there has not been one that "clicks."

Generally, being "punk" has nothing to do with believing in a God. Being Punk is a way of life just like one would say they are Christian (although remotely different.)

[Miss Z]

I do not need religion or such a belief in my life to be happy or to wake up in the morning. I choose to live life based on today, not worrying about what is going to happen when I die.

I can relate very much to that statement. I believe that I control what I do in life, and my that my actions have not been planned before I was even born by somebody else.

I actually come from quite a religious background on my father's side. My grandmother is devoted to Christianity, and she actually doesn't know I'm an atheist. I have heard her talking about the Christian faith and been to the Salvation Army with her occasionally since I was very young, and after listening to a lot of what she believed, I started to doubt the reality of things. When I was in primary school and started religious studies and discovered other religions, I didn't see how different people could all believe different things but still believe they are right. As time has gone on, and as I've learnt more and more, the more I don't want to be religious. I've found many readings in not only the Bible but other Holy books aswell that do not make reasonable sense to me. For now, I'm quite comfortable with being an atheist.

That being said, I do have a deep respect for those who practice their religion in full faith, there is nothing wrong at all with that. I do find some aspects of religions quite interesting and it is good to know about other faiths. One of the things I cannot stand at all though, are people who try to force religion down your throat, with threats of going to hell and trying to force me to purify my evil soul. I've met a couple of people like that in my life and quite frankly they are no more Christian than I am. When people believe what they want to believe without trying to influence everyone else, I have no problem whatsoever with that.

[zoey]

My immediate family was never into church. So I found God on my own when I was little. Then joined a youth group for Christians in high school. I'd like to become Catholic one day.

[IRescue452]

I've been pagan all my life and I do believe in a universal entity (a single "god"), but its not the same as the Christian god. The universal entity manifests himself in many "gods", that's why many people think pagans are polytheistic. We aren't. I do believe the Christian god exists, no pagan denies the Christians their god, we just don't believe in this "all-powerful, one true god".

[JenBKR]

Yes I do believe in God. There is no doubt in my mind. I went to church when I was little; my mom is religious and my father is not. I fell away from it for a while, but I felt that I was being called back.



I believe that I control what I do in life, and my that my actions have not been planned before I was even born by somebody else.


Just wanted to clear this up a little - the Christian belief is that we all control and choose what we do in our lives; we have been given free will. It is not that God decides our lives for us (if that were true we would probably all believe in Him!). He does, however, know what choices we will make before we make them. :)

[JenBKR]

I've been pagan all my life and I do believe in a universal entity (a single "god"), but its not the same as the Christian god. The universal entity manifests himself in many "gods", that's why many people think pagans are polytheistic. We aren't. I do believe the Christian god exists, no pagan denies the Christians their god, we just don't believe in this "all-powerful, one true god".

That's really interesting, thanks for clearing that up. I never knew that that's how the pagan religion worked. :)

[moosmom]

I was brought up Catholic. I sincerely believe in a Higher Power. She's (could be a he but I prefer a she) has kept me sober for 13 years now. Besides, she's been there for me for SO many things that have happened in my life, how can I NOT believe in her???

[sirrahved]

Yes, I believe in God.

Why? There's lots of reasons, but most of all I think the universe is far too complex to just have happened by chance.

I believe in God the WAY I believe because PEOPLE SUCK. I believe I'm not capable nor is anyone else, of anything truly good or noble or selfless without God.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Yes, I believe in God. I love him dearly!
There have been too many miracles in my life to doubt he exists.
Funny thing, when growing up my family never went to church but I don't remember a time I didn't believe in Jesus and I couldn't practice a religion that didn't include him.

Please note that does not mean I do not respect other religions or the people who practice them.

[CathyBogart]

that's why many people think pagans are polytheistic. We aren't.

I disagree with making blanket statements like this since the word Pagan covers so many different religions all over the world.

[ylrebmik]

There is so much that nobody can explain.. and i don't think we should be able to. If we knew everything- life wouldn't be as exciting to me. I like not knowing what is going to happen to me when i die. I just tell myself that I only live once and when i die- i just rot. It keeps me moving. When i think of "heaven".. it makes me feel like i can do anythign in this life and makeup for it in the "afterlife". I prefer not to know about "God"..if there is one. I believe more in spirits than anything, I guess. But i try not to think about everything like that and just LIVE. I believe every human makes their own decisions and that we should deal with our mistakes.

[mugsy]

Yes, I believe in the Higher Power. There is too much beauty and symetry in the world for it just to be happen stance. I also believe that we were given free will, but, we have to accept the consequenses for our actions.

Personally, I think the Native Americans have it right...everything in Nature deserves respect and reverance.

Mike and I have been delving into the metaphysical and it's quite enlightening.

I had one of my fundamentalist co-workers tell me that my beliefs were wrong and that our good financial fortune at the store had nothing to do with the crystals that Mike has out and about in the store, but rather it was God that gave us the good fortune....my response to him..."Who created the crystals?" He shut up! ;)

[CathyBogart]

..."Who created the crystals?" He shut up! ;)

That made me LoL! Excellent point.

[Dorothy39]

Yes, I Sincerely believe in "Higher Power"--

If that is "God" , so be it. ( how amazing, and unlikely, was my Birth, without it being a "miracle", right?)And that is WHY, I Believe!!!

I uphold the 10 Commandments,as well as, (The Golden Rule ;) ), and I often reach for the Bible when I am distraught , or lost, or troubled.

I respect all Mankind, and all the life forms that were created and exist on this Planet we call~ Earth.

It is an amazing planet, isn't it? :eek:

[My Peanuts]

I am a praticing pagan, so neither of these answers really suits me. I believe in many deities, not just one, and I do not worship them.

Awhile back, we had a really great thread where a lot of people told us about their various religions without fighting. It was a very educational thread for me. :)

My brother is a pagan. I'm not, but I do think it's highly misunderstood. :)

I was raised Catholic, but I'm Agnostic with strong Catholic undertones. I believe in God and I believe in certain things, but I can't blindly follow the teachings of any one religion. My brother is gay which isn't exactly ok with the Catholic religion. I take good parts of religions and I practice them. If a part of a religion makes you feel good and they don't hurt others and if it makes you want to be a good person then I say do it. Just a personal opinion.

[popcornbird]

Yes, I do believe in the One Almighty God, with absolutely no doubt in my heart. For me, one does not have to see something to believe it. The signs and proofs of existance are sufficient. We cannot see oxygen. We cannot see galaxies far from us. We cannot see carbondioxide. We cannot see cells. We cannot see so many things...but we know they exist. We cannot even see our Pet Talk friends, but know they exist from their posts. ;) Likewise, I do not need to 'see' God to believe in Him. All I need to do is look at myself and think. Think of how my heart functions. Think of how my mind works. Think of how blood flows through every vein, and how every organ works well with the Mercy of God. Think of how I am able to see, smell, hear, taste, feel. All I have to do is see a pregnant woman, and think of how amazing the development of a baby is. From nothing, God makes a whole new human being, inside the womb of his mother. It is amazing, and there is no way all this can take place without God's works. If I look up at the sky and watch the clouds form, the sun rise and set, the stars shine, the moon glowing, I see more and more signs of God's existance, and His power. The planets all circle the sun in their own orbits, none of them going off-track. When I go to the beach and see the powerful ocean, or when I go to the mountains and see the beautiful landscape, it only strengthens my faith in God. Take a plant for example. In the winter, it is barren and lifeless. In the spring, it begins to fill with new leaves and new life. Flowers bloom. Fruit forms. It is amazing. The list could go on and on, but the point is, with the billions of signs all around us, I could never imagine not having faith in God.

Another sign is death. It proves our fragility as human beings. We are born as fragile and helpless babies. Then God gives us strength, and we grow into toddlers, then children, then teens, then adults. As time goes by, we get older and start to return to our fragile state. Then death overtakes us, and we leave this world. Not a single one of us on this planet is strong enough to avoid death, or refrain from dying. No matter how much we may not want to die, we will all die. Hard reality. It will happen to all of us. God, our Creator, is the One who has strength above all other creatures. Our lives are in His hands. He rules everything in the Heavens and in the Earth. When I believe that God is so Powerful, and so Great, and has created everything in this world, and has bestowed all His bounties on us, how ever could I not believe in Him, and not submit myself to Him? I have no doubt in God. Absolutely no doubt.

I do believe God gave human beings the freedom of choice in what we believe, but I do believe we will all have to face consequences for whatever we choose in our actions. People believe many things, but in reality, to every serious question, there is only true answer and many confusions. The answer to 1+1 is 2. It can't be 1, it can't be 3, it can't be 4 or 5 or 6...It can't even be 2.1. The duty of us as human beings is to search for the answer to life and to all of our questions about it before its too late.

Just my personal feelings on this topic. :)

[JenBKR]

PCB as usual your post was beautiful and reflected my thoughts better than I can express them :)

[BitsyNaceyDog]

I absolutely believe in God. I however no longer attend church. My husband and I both felt we didn't belong there. We didn't like the way our church did things and we decided to leave. We thought we'd find another church but instead we found our relationship with God has been stronger since we haven't been attending church.

[ILoveReptiles]

I would classify myself as an Agnostic Atheist. So, no. I don't believe in God. Nor do I believe in Satan.

It's my feeling that religion was created as a method for the strong to maintain control over the weak, by threatening the wrath of a diety if they did not obey.

As a result of this, I just can't bring myself to believe in any higher power. I live by my own set of morals, which I may add are much better than the morals (or lack thereof) of some people I know directly involved in my life (I.E. my supervisor, who touts himself off to be a good Christian, but in reality has absolutely no integrity, no moral fibre, and is the biggest hypocrite I've ever met in my life.)

[Roxyluvsme13]

Somewhat yes, and somewhat undecided. I used to go to church from the time I was 1- the occasional time nowadays, but I somewhat believe and somewhat just don't know. I just live life the way it is now and hope for the best.

[lbaker]

I think it's pretty darn egotistical for someone to declare to know "The Truth" or "The Way". I believe one should rather say they know "A Truth" or "A Way". If how you are living works for you without harming others you are lucky. Perhaps at a different time you may live differently. Not better. Not worse... just different than how you did. So be it.

[Pam]

Laurie, the words *The Truth* and *The Way* came from the lips of Jesus. In John's Gospel chapter 14 verse 6 Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (Look it up for yourself :) ) If us Christians sound narrowminded that is why. Jesus himself claims He and He alone is the way. It is for everyone to chose for themselves of course, however I choose Him. :)

What always baffles me is that other religions refer to him as a great man. This is a man who claimed to be God. If He isn't God then he must be, as C.S. Lewis once said when trying to explain his conversion to Christianity, a raving lunatic. You can't have it both ways. He is either who he said He is or He is crazy. I believe Him and He is my Lord. :)

[slick]

My parents are Athiests. My Mom doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell or some Supreme Being....she says when you die, you just die. That's the way I was brought up, but I've been talking to God since I was a little girl. Yes I believe, yes He's been with me through thick and thin and yes He will be with me when I leave this world and yes, I can hardly wait to the see the Kingdom of Heaven, that is, if I'm worthy of going to Heaven. "No pain in Heaven."

I don't need to see proof. I feel Him around me every day and He gives me the strength to beat any challenges that cross my path. He blesses me every day and not a day goes by that I don't thank Him for His love and the love of my friends and family.

...and that's all I've got to say about that. ;)

[zoomer]

Yes. My sister has seen him do his magic, that's why. At camp a girl had a huge cancer on her chest. A boy her age went up and prayed and prayed, and when he moved away, the tumor was go, TOTALLY GONE!! so THAT is why I believe in god...

[zoomer]

Oh, and also, my sister talks in this wierd language to god... she says its a gift.

[Argranade]

Oh, and also, my sister talks in this wierd language to god... she says its a gift.

In my church the ladies would start screaming and thanking god then would start talking in tounge's weird language's even my mom did it lol.

Some would even have tears in there eye's.

(When I was little me and my brother found it funny) :o

[carole]

I was raised a presbyterian ,however i dabbled in the mormon faith when i was around 18, never did me any harm, and i was in and out of the faith for a few years, however i have not belonged or believed in any faith for many years now, I am not exactly a non-believer, i do believe in a high power, just not sure i call that power god, and i do not attend any church, but i do pray from time to time and live what i call a fairly christian lifestyle.

I don't believe one has to attend church or belong to a particular faith,i do however respect others rights and beliefs to do just that. :)

[CathyBogart]

I think it's pretty darn egotistical for someone to declare to know "The Truth" or "The Way". I believe one should rather say they know "A Truth" or "A Way". If how you are living works for you without harming others you are lucky. Perhaps at a different time you may live differently. Not better. Not worse... just different than how you did. So be it.


I couldn't agree with you more. :)

[CathyBogart]

What always baffles me is that other religions refer to him as a great man. This is a man who claimed to be God. If He isn't God then he must be, as C.S. Lewis once said when trying to explain his conversion to Christianity, a raving lunatic. You can't have it both ways. He is either who he said He is or He is crazy. I believe Him and He is my Lord. :)

I thought he claimed to be the son of god, not actually god?

Anywho, I was taught, and I believe, that his powers are the same ones that pagans use when practicing magic. We (or at least, some pagans) use the laying of the hands and many of the same energy-focusing magic that Jesus, and other christians use in the name of their one god. At least, I think it's the same magic, I could be completely wrong. :)

[Pam]

I thought he claimed to be the son of god, not actually god?


The Trinity is composed of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. All are separate but all are God. The way that is easiest for me to understand the Trinity is that it is like the three parts of an egg - the shell, the yolk and the white. They are all the egg, but have three parts. Hope this helps. :)

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Can I go for the "not sure" option? Would like to think that there may be something but not necessarily God

[JenBKR]

The Trinity is composed of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. All are separate but all are God. The way that is easiest for me to understand the Trinity is that it is like the three parts of an egg - the shell, the yolk and the white. They are all the egg, but have three parts. Hope this helps. :)


Ooh great analagy - I have tried to explain the Trinity before but it's hard to do...I will certainly remember the egg now! :)


My parents are Athiests. My Mom doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell or some Supreme Being....she says when you die, you just die. That's the way I was brought up, but I've been talking to God since I was a little girl. Yes I believe, yes He's been with me through thick and thin and yes He will be with me when I leave this world and yes, I can hardly wait to the see the Kingdom of Heaven, that is, if I'm worthy of going to Heaven. "No pain in Heaven."

I don't need to see proof. I feel Him around me every day and He gives me the strength to beat any challenges that cross my path. He blesses me every day and not a day goes by that I don't thank Him for His love and the love of my friends and family.

...and that's all I've got to say about that.

Slick that's awesome, God has certainly touched your life and you are blessed. Your post brought tears to my eyes :)

[JenBKR]

I think it's pretty darn egotistical for someone to declare to know "The Truth" or "The Way". I believe one should rather say they know "A Truth" or "A Way". If how you are living works for you without harming others you are lucky. Perhaps at a different time you may live differently. Not better. Not worse... just different than how you did. So be it.

I am sorry that you feel that way - but, as Pam said, those are the words straight from Jesus. Claiming to know The Truth and The Way is simply stating that one knows Jesus - it is not saying that you are 'better' than anyone else. :)

[Christiansmommy]

I believe in God, absolutely. I have not read thru the other posts, but wanted to just give my answer as to why, or the best way I know how to explain why.

I have faith in Him. He has given me this faith. I have faith that He lives, that He died on the cross, that He will return one day, and that I will meet Him and live with Him in eternity. Those are some pretty big statements, and you may probably wonder how I can feel so absolutely sure that they did/will happen someday... it is b/c He has given me this faith... how did He give me this faith and how do I know it is coming from Him? B/c of all of the times that I have had messes going on in my life and I have been at my absolute wits end, and I call out to Him, and I am comforted and I know, out of my faith for Him, that it was He who heard my cries and comforted me. He is the only answer to giving me peace....in every trial that I have encountered, He makes Himself known to me...prayer has brought me close to Him and helps me to feel Him so strongly in my life, everyday. He says in the Bible, "Knock and the door shall open"... All you have to do is call upon His name and He will hear you and comfort you. I am truely blessed to have the growing relationship that I do have with him, unfortunate trials that have happened in my life have brought me closer to Him, and for that reason, I wouldn't change a thing...even the tears that I have cried...they all had purpose and He brought me through it, just how and when is for His deciding...that is where I rely on Him thru faith. If you ever feel absolutely like you can't go on and you can't find answers as to how to cope with your daily trials, try it, just pray to Him, cry out to Him, and wait, He will bring you out of the situation in HIs good timing, and you will feel your burdons lesson. He will NEVER leave me or forsake me, NEVER...and to know a God and a religion that can say that, why would I want to look anywhere else or question it, ya know? He is my answer.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

My parents are Athiests. My Mom doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell or some Supreme Being....she says when you die, you just die. That's the way I was brought up, but I've been talking to God since I was a little girl. Yes I believe, yes He's been with me through thick and thin and yes He will be with me when I leave this world and yes, I can hardly wait to the see the Kingdom of Heaven, that is, if I'm worthy of going to Heaven. "No pain in Heaven."

I don't need to see proof. I feel Him around me every day and He gives me the strength to beat any challenges that cross my path. He blesses me every day and not a day goes by that I don't thank Him for His love and the love of my friends and family.

...and that's all I've got to say about that. ;)

your faith is enviable and wonderful

[Edwina's Secretary]

I think it's pretty darn egotistical for someone to declare to know "The Truth" or "The Way". I believe one should rather say they know "A Truth" or "A Way".

I have the same problem Laurie when people here in Cali talk about the highways....THE 5....THE 91.....like there isn't another 5 anywhere????? :D

[VTJess03]

I came to believe when I was 18. I had never been to church until I was 13, and we lived a life like a lot of people around us (we celebrated the 'Christian' holidays, but more in the commercial style). I came to believe in God through a Protestant Christian style, and have maintained that. Like I said in a previous post, I don't worship Christianity, I worship Christ (and the Father and Spirit -- I like to think of it as a delegation of responsibilities to 3 alternate personalities...if you study in depth, you will see that each of the three falls into different roles in their interactions with us).

For me, the reason I believe is that I was granted a vision at the time of my conversion, and actually, tangibly, felt the arms of God (Christ) holding on to me in the embrace I needed so badly at the time. (And, no, I wasn't high or drunk, or whatever -- I have never dabbled in drugs). Since I have seen with my own eyes and felt with my own nerve endings, how can I not believe?

If I had come to another religion before Christianity when I was at the point in my life that I was searching for something, I may have believed more along the lines of Islam, or Pagan, or whatever; however, since I believe in Christianity, I have to believe that's the right way to believe, or I wouldn't believe it. For me, it's 'the' way, because, if I acknowledge other ways, I would be going against Christ's teachings, and then would not really be a Christian after all, would I? For me, it's about admitting my shortcomings, and seeking forgiveness when I screw up.

I also believe God forgives all sins, which include the more controversial ones in the news recently. In God's eyes, all sins are equal (that includes asking for a divorce (yes, I know, that's me), homosexual behavior, white lies, gluttony, greed, etc.) and are all forgiven equally when we ask for it. Analogy: once you're in prison, you're a criminal, regardless of why you're there. It doesn't matter if you shoplifted or mass murdered...you're still labeled a criminal in the eyes of the law. That's how I see us sinners in this world; when I admit I did wrong and seek forgiveness, I have served my term and can be free again.

I also don't believe in taking a sermon at face value. If I think something doesn't sound quite right, I will research the Scripture and the background of the original language, etc. If it turns out that a sermon prompts me to change my behavior, then I will, but if it is unfounded rhetoric that cannot be backed up or it is from something taken out of context, I refuse to adopt that into my lifestyle. I want to please God, not the people around me.

[Laura's Babies]

Yes, I do believe because He has always taken care of me and blessed me in so many ways. I also believe that it was the power of prayer that saved my sons life when he was burned on 82% of his body, he should have died from those burns. God brought him through!

[Christiansmommy]

Yes, I do believe because He has always taken care of me and blessed me in so many ways. I also believe that it was the power of prayer that saved my sons life when he was burned on 82% of his body, he should have died from those burns. God brought him through!

I beleive that for sure! I have a quote on my fridge that says,

"Trials are not enemies of faith, but are opportunities to prove God's faithfulness."

Your son is living proof that God was faithful and brought him through.

[popcornbird]

I just want to clarify one thing...

I believe in God. ONE God. Almighty God. One God. One Creator. I do not, by any means, believe in trinity. So...my belief in God would be different than the belief some of you here have. I believe God is ONE, supreme, far above having a son or any associates. My religion (Islam)'s main teachings are about the One-ness of God. In our faith, God has no partners, and no associates. When we pray to God, we pray directly to HIM, without going through anyone else.

I have a question about those who believe in trinity. This is out of complete curiosity, as trinity has always been something far from my understanding.

If you believe God is 3 in 1, and you believe all 3 parts (God, Jesus, Holy Ghost) are a part of God...and you believe God is supreme and exalted, yet, at the same time, you believe Jesus died on the cross...........Are you saying its possible for a part of God to DIE??? God cannot die. WE die. Not God. Not any part of God. I really need someone to explain this to me.

As to saying Christianity is THE way.....

I know that Christianity has MANY sects, and MANY different versions of the Bible which are very different. Which one is THE word of God, and which one is altered? How can you know? I have 3 different Bibles at home, and each one is different.

Also...if Jesus died for our sins...what about the people before Jesus? They had no one to die for their sins, so what happened to them? What about the people of Noah, Abraham, Jonah, Moses? They were believers...but Jesus didn't die for their sins. He wasn't even born then. What happened to the believers who existed for centuries before Jesus?

[My Peanuts]

I just wanted to say one other thing. I don't care what anyone's religion is or lack of religion, but I do have one strong opinion. If ANYTHING in ANY religion makes ANYONE hurt or feel bad it should just be taken out. It seems simple enough, but obviously it's not. If your religion tells you being gay is wrong and gays should die or be shunned, take it out. If your religion has hatred for Jews, take it out, and so on. I know it would never happen, but think if it did. There would be so much more peace on earth.

I had a teacher in HS say that religion is not a buffet; you can’t pick and choose what you want. I don’t buy into that at all. There are a lot of rules and situations made by man and we all know that mankind has screwed a lot of stuff up in the world. Also, think about it. When certain words of Christ or whoever you believe in were actually written down there was like one guy in the village that could read and write. That guy could have added anything he wanted and most people wouldn’t have known until it had gotten passed on. I know it sounds silly, but I’m not ready to believe what that one guy added. It’s kind of like playing the telephone game, information gets changed.

Region should make you feel good and make you want to be good and not make others feel bad. I guess that would be called the ultimate utopia. :)

[JenBKR]

Lots of questions - I don't really have the time to answer all of them because I am *supposed* to be working ;) but I'll try a little here:


Also...if Jesus died for our sins...what about the people before Jesus? They had no one to die for their sins, so what happened to them? What about the people of Noah, Abraham, Jonah, Moses? They were believers...but Jesus didn't die for their sins. He wasn't even born then. What happened to the believers who existed for centuries before Jesus?


The people before Jesus, such as those in the Old Testament, made sacrifices to God. Jesus sacrificed Himself, so we don't need to make the sacrifices to God anymore. The believers who followed God's word before Jesus were still able to go to heaven, it was just a lot more difficult. Jesus made it a lot easier.


If your religion tells you being gay is wrong and gays should die or be shunned, take it out. If your religion has hatred for Jews, take it out, and so on.

Just want to address this real quick. NOt sure what religion you are talking about, or just religion in general, so I am just answering for Christianity. There *should be* NO hatred in Christianity. Jesus taught us to love everyone. Is homosexuality considered a sin? Yes. But then again, so is stealing a tube of lipstick from Wal Mart. Both are on the same level in God's eyes. All sins are equal. I know plenty of gay people that are Christians. If they ask God for forgiveness, just as the person who stole paper clips from work or murdered someone, they can be forgiven. I know that's a tough concept, because here we classify those 'sins' as completely different, but they are not in God's eyes. We are to love our neighbors, and not hate anyone. A favorite quote of mine: "Love the sinner, hate the Sin." We are ALL sinners, every one of us. No one is 'above' anyone else, not in the least.

[My Peanuts]

Just want to address this real quick. NOt sure what religion you are talking about, or just religion in general, so I am just answering for Christianity. There *should be* NO hatred in Christianity. Jesus taught us to love everyone. Is homosexuality considered a sin? Yes. But then again, so is stealing a tube of lipstick from Wal Mart. Both are on the same level in God's eyes. All sins are equal. I know plenty of gay people that are Christians. If they ask God for forgiveness, just as the person who stole paper clips from work or murdered someone, they can be forgiven. I know that's a tough concept, because here we classify those 'sins' as completely different, but they are not in God's eyes. We are to love our neighbors, and not hate anyone. A favorite quote of mine: "Love the sinner, hate the Sin." We are ALL sinners, every one of us. No one is 'above' anyone else, not in the least.


I respect your opinion, but I don't see being gay as a sin and I don't think anyone should have to ask forgiveness for it. To me it's like saying I have to ask forgiveness for being born with brown eyes. Stealing is a choice, being gay isn’t. I don't want to get off the subject too much though. I also don't want to cause an arguement about this. Just trying to keep this thread lite :)

[momoffuzzyfaces]

I just wanted to say one other thing. I don't care what anyone's religion is or lack of religion, but I do have one strong opinion. If ANYTHING in ANY religion makes ANYONE hurt or feel bad it should just be taken out. It seems simple enough, but obviously it's not. If your religion tells you being gay is wrong and gays should die or be shunned, take it out. If your religion has hatred for Jews, take it out, and so on. I know it would never happen, but think if it did. There would be so much more peace on earth.

I think a lot of confusion, at least in the Christian religion, is we get confused as to what is our respoisibility and what is God's. If God doesn't like someone's sexuality, it's HIS job to change it not ours. We are to love others: period. Jesus said Love your neighbor as yourself. He did not say, love your neighbor only if he is straight or white or a Christian.

How some Christians can dislike Jewish people is beyond me. My lord is Jewish. To hate them would be to hate HIM. I just can't do that.
Just my opinions, of course.

[My Peanuts]

I think a lot of confusion, at least in the Christian religion, is we get confused as to what is our respoisibility and what is God's. If God doesn't like someone's sexuality, it's HIS job to change it not ours. We are to love others: period. Jesus said Love your neighbor as yourself. He did not say, love your neighbor only if he is straight or white or a Christian.

How some Christians can dislike Jewish people is beyond me. My lord is Jewish. To hate them would be to hate HIM. I just can't do that.
Just my opinions, of course.


Hating Jews was never taught to me. I think you know that, but jus tthought I should clarify. :) There are probably 100 examples I could have used.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Hating Jews was never taught to me. I think you know that, but jus tthought I should clarify. :) There are probably 100 examples I could have used.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I was talking about you. You just mentioned it and I ran with it. It's just always puzzled me that some Christians dislike Jewish peope so much. We share the same Bible but Christians just have more to theirs. :)

[Christiansmommy]

I think a lot of confusion, at least in the Christian religion, is we get confused as to what is our respoisibility and what is God's. If God doesn't like someone's sexuality, it's HIS job to change it not ours. We are to love others: period. Jesus said Love your neighbor as yourself. He did not say, love your neighbor only if he is straight or white or a Christian.

How some Christians can dislike Jewish people is beyond me. My lord is Jewish. To hate them would be to hate HIM. I just can't do that.
Just my opinions, of course.


Very well said. It is God's job to change what He doesn't want for His children...and not ours to argue over it... ( not pointing the finger at any one person,really, but this subject always comes up and there will always be disagreements on it)...

There are some very judgemental people in this world, Christian and non-chrisitian alike. It is no one's place to ever put down someone's life or lifestyle. We are to love our neighbor. Christianity and Christian's beleive what the Bible teaches and not just parts of it, but all of it. And while we should not put down someone's lifestyle...it does not mean that we agree with it either. Homosexuality is a topic that will never ever be agreed upon, by Christians, Non-Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc. Christian's believe in the Bible and the words of the Bible in it's entirety....that includes both loving your neighbor, even if that neighbor is gay. I have had many gay friends in the 29 years that I have been living...do I believe this lifestyle exemplifies what Christ intended for his children, no, I do not, does Christ love gay people, yes, He loves everyone, does he love the fact that they are gay, no, it is not what he intended and it is stated so in the Bible. That is something that can only ever be judged by God. And we can argue our points on this until we are blue in the face, but we will never agree on it. That is something that we have to truely, let go and let God take care of...

I have never walked in the shoes of a gay man or woman....so I can not say what it is like. Nor can a gay man or woman say they have walked in my shoes as a born again christian woman...and so they in the same turn, can not understand why I believe like I do. Somethings will have to be left to God to judge...we can certainly discuss the issues at hand, but when it all comes down to it, you won't get the same response from one Christian to another on the topic of homosexuality...b/c even just the word "Christian" is a term used very loosely...many denominations fall into the "Christian" catagory and we infact can believe very different things. It basically comes down to mans heart and God is the only one who can truely know it....

[popcornbird]

Very well said. It is God's job to change what He doesn't want for His children...and not ours to argue over it...

I don't understand this...

God has already made things the way He wanted. God gave mankind the freedom of choice, and God gave us guidance, and the choice to take it, or disbelieve in it. I don't know why this is going into a homosexual discussion, but...since everyone's talking about it now,...

Love is something that comes from the heart and love for a person is not something that can really be controlled, HOWEVER, love can also JUST be love, without anything sexual.

Sex is a CHOICE, a pure CHOICE, and nothing but a CHOICE. We are all human beings and all have cravings and fantasies...its in our nature, but its when cravings and fantasies are allowed to rule us, without us ruling them, that it leads to sin. Adultery is a sin. Adultery is committed between a man and woman that were married to someone else. They fell in love with each other (perhaps they could not control those feelings?) Then, they commit the act with each other. Then, they get accused of cheating by the entire world. No one says, "Oh...they couldn't control their feelings...", like people say about gays. Its because they COULD control their feelings and COULD have refrained from that act. They just chose not to.

My point is...whether a man and a woman 'crave' for each other, if they are married to someone else, committing adultery is a sin, period. It IS a choice. It IS a choice to go and have sex with someone you love. Your body doesn't run automatically. If you have cheese and omelett in front of you, are hungry and craving for both, but only have the option for one, you have the CHOICE to pick and eat the food you want.

God MADE man and woman, two genders, to be mates to one another. It goes no other way. If someone does it some other way...well...to some of you, it may not be a sin, but God Almighty said its a sin, and that's that. He also said adultery is a sin, and He said fornication is a sin, and He said murder is a sin, and while a person can repent and be forgiven for all of these sins, repentence is in order. God will not change gays because he didn't make them that way. He made them male and female just like us. He gave them the same body parts and body shapes as everyone else. Its their mind that takes them in that direction...just like an adulterous' mind takes him in that direction. At that moment, he's not thinking, "I'm married", but that, "I love this woman...I can't help it..."

Why do we encourage kids to abstain in their youth then? Why don't we just say, "They can't help it...They're made that way...blah blah blah..." Its because they CAN help it. Our sexual actions are in OUR control. It makes no sense to say, "They were made that way..." No one is compelled to commit sexual acts with their own gender. They do it because they WANT to. Because they CHOOSE to. The sinful aspect of homosexuality is committing sexual acts with a person of the same sex. That is the SIN. Feeling love for a person is not a sin. Its actually a good thing to love our friends, family, neighbors, etc. Just not in that way. :eek:

Satan tries to make us justify ourselves for whatever wrong we do, be it homosexuality, or anything else. That doesn't take the sin aspect out of it. JMHO

Remember...this is a 'do you believe in God' thread, so everyone will be voicing their opinions in the way THEY see things.

[Pam]

Some answers for PCB. I hope this helps. :)

Pops, God, in the form of Christ, died on the cross (remember the three parts to His Diety). He did this to satisfy His own demands, set forth in the Old Testament that *without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sins.* As JenBKR said, blood offerings were offered before this time and God *counted it for righteousness* (remember the Passover?) After Jesus paid the ultimate price for sin there was no longer a need for a blood sacrifice. Jesus is referred to as the *Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.* We accept His sacrifice and apply it to our lives and out of gratitude to Him we follow Him.

Over the ages many denominations have come into being. People approach Christianity from many differing backgrounds and many different cultural ideas. Denomination is not the issue here. What someone does in their heart is. The place that Christ has in one's own heart is more important than the denomination or church where they worship. God is able to sort it all out. If we have accepted Jesus into our lives as our Lord and have accepted His grace which allows us to become partakers of his atonement that is all that matters. We worship Him and live for Him out of gratitude and a thankful heart.

When I have surrounded certain phrases by * & * they are direct quotes from the Bible.

[critter crazy]

I am undecided! I kind of do and i kind of dont, I am confused.

[Christiansmommy]

I don't understand this...

God has already made things the way He wanted. God gave mankind the freedom of choice, and God gave us guidance, and the choice to take it, or disbelieve in it.

By saying it is up to God to change what He doesn't want for His children, I guess would be explained more clearly as....When we repent for something that the Holy Spirit convicted us of...the Holy Spirit makes that change within us, when we repent of our sins (and are convicted of them)...we can no longer be like our old self, that is why we are called "born again"...the Holy Spirit now dwells within us and makes us a new person...a murderer who is convicted of his ways and truely repents to the Lord for forgiveness, the Holy Spirit changes him and becoming a born again Christian means that you are aware of your sinful nature and you are changed, will you still sin, yes...but the Holy Spirit living within you, gives you that desire to live for God.

[lbaker]

Most people here appear to be speaking in absolutes. I do not believe in absolutes. THIS is absolutely wrong. THIS is absolutely The Way. THIS is an absolute "sin". Sorry, I love you all but humanity is not made of absolutes, in my opinion. "Absolute 1. Perfect in quality or nature; complete. 2. Not mixed; pure. Total. I simply do not agree with absolutes. Again, no offense.

[lizbud]

This is strange but I was raised Catholic & went to Catholic schools right
through college, but find myself agreeing with everything said here by both Pam and Christiansmommy.

Maybe most Christians are more alike than they are different. :)

[Zippy]

I belive Jesus died on the cross for my sins then after three days he rose form the dead and went to heaven to be with God.That Jesus saved me is what i belive he saved me form hell so i could go to Heaven with him.

[JenBKR]

I am learning a lot here and love hearing different opinions! I know we talked a lot about homosexuality already, just wanted to add one thing...I believe that homosexuality is/was considered a sin because a homosexual relationship cannot produce children. I could be wrong, but that's how I believed it to be.

critter crazy: I understand why you are confused, it's a difficult topic. There are SO MANY different beliefs, and it's easy to get all mixed up in it. I guess what's important is whatever you feel in your heart, and if you don't know what that is yet, keep searching, you will find it. :)

lizbud: I know what you mean, sometimes it seems like Catholic beliefs are pretty different than other types of Christians, but I think it all boils down to the same ideas. I myself am not Catholic, but i have lots of Catholic friends and in discussions we have some disagreements about certain things but mostly agree, especially on the 'important' stuff (hope that made sense) :)

[Cincy'sMom]

I was raised Catholic, and although I don't go to church often, still consider myself Catholic. Yes, I belive in God.

I do have some problems with organized religion. I have a problem with religions saying their way is the only way. I think the truth has to be somewhere in the middle, and that one spefic religion can't be the only way to Heaven.

[dogzr#1]

This is a hard topic for me because I have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes I believe and sometimes I don't. Like when we were at church and some of the people started talking in tongues and stuff... I found it funny and actually felt slightly embarrassed for them :o . My mom would tell me stories of all the stuff God does and did, and some of them I don't believe. Of course I can't tell anyone in my family that because they would be mad/sad towards me.

I sometimes believe in God because of what has happened to my mom. Long story short: Marriage Problems; divorce; then randomly found a wonderful new husband. Some of the stories of recoveries I believe. It's just hard to explain in 'type-able' words.

I am still very confoozled on this subject.

[shais_mom]

I was raised Methodist and while I try to go more often I have really been striving to become more spiritual then religious.
I believe in a loving God who gave his only Son for the sins that I make in this life.

I don't have a problem with any kind of religion I do have a problem with the interpretation. My aunt and uncle (my mom's brother) belonged to a Southern Baptist church. My aunt stopped going for her own reasons, my uncle refused to stop going b/c it took so long for him to be accepted and become a member of the church. They ended up divorcing and my aunt's dad who was the minister practically disowned her and my cousins, but didn't have a problem ex- son in law (my uncle) b/c he felt that my aunt was the one in the wrong (affair). But why punish your own daughter and grandkids? Leave that to God. Then my cousin got a DUI and the entire church turned their back her and kicked her off the church membership. My uncle ended up quitting after that. And neither of my cousins have anything to do with church now b/c of it. My cousin Wes has pretty much alienated himself from his mom's family b/c of what she did and b/c of how they are towards them. My family (raised Methodist) accept them without question and love them anyway. My cousin that got the DUI (Brandi) when she got it she was hysterical thinking that we wouldn't love her anymore. We (my mom/uncle's side) didn't have a problem - no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. The other side of her family however - have treated her poorly ever since.
I just think it is so sad. It is God and only Him that can judge.

I wholeheartedly am against Jehovah Witnesses. B/c in my day to day life I have not found them to be ahhh lets just say nice people.

The only other problem I have - and I am not trying to point fingers or start a fight - I just have noticed that some people who say they are atheist are up until something happens that they want something then they want prayers for whatever reason. THAT I find hypocritical - that is no different then someone who is holier then Thou on Sunday and a hellion Monday thru Saturday in my humble opinion.
The other thing I have a problem with is if someone says they are an atheist or a pagan or whatever if they don't want me to push my views on THEM then I don't want them to push their views on ME! When I say I believe in God I'm not asking for an argument. I am stating my opinion and am entitled to it just as much as they are. :)
I am entitled to my opinion about anything just as they are!
I need to shut up now - I have edited this post like 5 times

[*iluvskipper*]

yep. a lutheran christian... there are many things that i don't understand yet but im learning a lot in church and confirmation :)

[ROXY1507]

I am a praticing pagan, so neither of these answers really suits me. I believe in many deities, not just one, and I do not worship them.

Awhile back, we had a really great thread where a lot of people told us about their various religions without fighting. It was a very educational thread for me. :)


I dont see why you dont have anything to belive in :confused: I think that it great that you are lookig into other stuff, and what other people belive in but you should realy belive in something your self because you never know something mite happen and you will have to choes you cant just say i dont know try beliveing in god roxy1507

[shais_mom]

Lots of questions - I don't really have the time to answer all of them because I am *supposed* to be working ;) but I'll try a little here:




The people before Jesus, such as those in the Old Testament, made sacrifices to God. Jesus sacrificed Himself, so we don't need to make the sacrifices to God anymore. The believers who followed God's word before Jesus were still able to go to heaven, it was just a lot more difficult. Jesus made it a lot easier.



Just want to address this real quick. NOt sure what religion you are talking about, or just religion in general, so I am just answering for Christianity. There *should be* NO hatred in Christianity. Jesus taught us to love everyone. Is homosexuality considered a sin? Yes. But then again, so is stealing a tube of lipstick from Wal Mart. Both are on the same level in God's eyes. All sins are equal. I know plenty of gay people that are Christians. If they ask God for forgiveness, just as the person who stole paper clips from work or murdered someone, they can be forgiven. I know that's a tough concept, because here we classify those 'sins' as completely different, but they are not in God's eyes. We are to love our neighbors, and not hate anyone. A favorite quote of mine: "Love the sinner, hate the Sin." We are ALL sinners, every one of us. No one is 'above' anyone else, not in the least.
exactly -
and if someone is killed b/c of what they are - Jew - or gay or has blue eyes or brown hair - that is no different then the sin they were killed for.

[CathyBogart]

I dont see why you dont have anything to belive in :confused: I think that it great that you are lookig into other stuff, and what other people belive in but you should realy belive in something your self because you never know something mite happen and you will have to choes you cant just say i dont know try beliveing in god roxy1507

Excuse me? I'm a practicing pagan, that hardly means I have nothing to believe in. I don't think you read my post....I said "I believe in many deities".

I find it insulting that you would imply that I don't believe in anything because I don't believe in your god. My deities have been there for me when I needed them most, and that is what should matter.

[shais_mom]

I didn't quite get what she was saying either.
This was a civilized discussion I thought.

[CathyBogart]

Oof, didn't mean to react so strongly. I'm still shaken from my BF crashing last night. :(

[lbaker]

Really Roxy, where was THAT coming from?? :confused: Have you ever heard of "spell checker" by the way ;)

[Suki Wingy]

Nope. Never have seen a reason to. A lot of people can't do one good thing for themselves and beleive in themselves, they have to say god did it. Also the way lots of different people come up with lots of different religions. For me, I feel like the world works on pure chance.

ILoveReptiles, I agree with you. Christianity has change so much over history.

I would classify myself as an Agnostic Atheist. So, no. I don't believe in God. Nor do I believe in Satan.

It's my feeling that religion was created as a method for the strong to maintain control over the weak, by threatening the wrath of a diety if they did not obey.

As a result of this, I just can't bring myself to believe in any higher power. I live by my own set of morals, which I may add are much better than the morals (or lack thereof) of some people I know directly involved in my life (I.E. my supervisor, who touts himself off to be a good Christian, but in reality has absolutely no integrity, no moral fibre, and is the biggest hypocrite I've ever met in my life.)
MY own oppinion and please don't be offended by this, is that god is everyone's personal imaginary friend

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Nope. Never have seen a reason to. A lot of people can't do one good thing for themselves and beleive in themselves, they have to say god did it. Also the way lots of different people come up with lots of different religions. For me, I feel like the world works on pure chance.

ILoveReptiles, I agree with you. Christianity has change so much over history.

MY own oppinion and please don't be offended by this, is that god is everyone's personal imaginary friend
Oh, PAAALEASE!!!
I had an imaginary horse when I was a kid. I well know the difference!!!

A lot of us can do "one good thing (or more) for ourselves" but still believe in God. I know for a fact that I would never have been able to get out of the slum I was living in with no money and into a nice clean well built home with out God's help. So, while you are surley intitled to your own opinions, please don't tell me I was just imagining things!!!

PS, I still love you no matter what you believe!!! :D

[GreyhoundGirl]

I said "no" because :o untill recentally I didn't even know who he is. I never really got into religeon, so I wouldn't say I belive in any religeous things ( because I don't have a religeon ). Except for Karma, but that was because I read about it on the internet.

[JenBKR]

Nope. Never have seen a reason to. A lot of people can't do one good thing for themselves and beleive in themselves, they have to say god did it. Also the way lots of different people come up with lots of different religions. For me, I feel like the world works on pure chance.

ILoveReptiles, I agree with you. Christianity has change so much over history.

MY own oppinion and please don't be offended by this, is that god is everyone's personal imaginary friend

Wow. Ouch. :( At least I respect other opinions, thank God for that.

[Suki Wingy]

I DO respect other's oppinions. That is my heartfealt oppinion and I've held back from saying it on PT for a long time. I felt like in a wonderful place like PT I should be able to share that. Notice I said is like, not is. There is a difference. Since when is my own oppinion after hearing many people state how they feel, wrong or taken offensivley? I think religion is a wonderful thing for lots of people, it gives hope and meaning. I just don't see the need for MYSELF to believe in anything, I'm happy on my own. No one can really prove the existance of or apsence of a god anyway so oppinions are all there will ever be in religion, and we must learn to respect others' oppinions and be able to speak what we truley believe and not beome offended by other's oppinions. I truley love you guys and I never wanted to hurt anyone, that's why I refrained from speaking my whole mind at first. It doesn't mean I think any less of you. One of my good friends is storngly Muslim, I belong to a UU group, so I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or anything.

[lbaker]

I don't get it either. Your god in your mind is better than my god in my mind. :confused: And if I don't have a "god" I don't have a mind?? Or if I have several I'm mindless?? Too much for this simple mind to deal with. :rolleyes:

[JenBKR]

I DO respect other's oppinions. That is my heartfealt oppinion and I've held back from saying it on PT for a long time. I felt like in a wonderful place like PT I should be able to share that. Notice I said is like, not is. There is a difference. Since when is my own oppinion after hearing many people state how they feel, wrong or taken offensivley? I think religion is a wonderful thing for lots of people, it gives hope and meaning. I just don't see the need for MYSELF to believe in anything, I'm happy on my own. No one can really prove the existance of or apsence of a god anyway so oppinions are all there will ever be in religion, and we must learn to respect others' oppinions and be able to speak what we truley believe and not beome offended by other's oppinions. I truley love you guys and I never wanted to hurt anyone, that's why I refrained from speaking my whole mind at first. It doesn't mean I think any less of you. One of my good friends is storngly Muslim, I belong to a UU group, so I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or anything.

Oh no no, I apologize, that came out wrong, I wasn't saying that you don't respect other opinions, I meant that your last statement stung me a little but I'm ok because I can respect other opinions. Does that make sense? I wasn't trying to say anything about you.

[JenBKR]

I don't get it either. Your god in your mind is better than my god in my mind. :confused: And if I don't have a "god" I don't have a mind?? Or if I have several I'm mindless?? Too much for this simple mind to deal with. :rolleyes:


huh? Or....who were you talking to? :confused:

[shais_mom]

Oh no no, I apologize, that came out wrong, I wasn't saying that you don't respect other opinions, I meant that your last statement stung me a little but I'm ok because I can respect other opinions. Does that make sense? I wasn't trying to say anything about you.
Given the tone of previous posts by her, I think that is exactly what she was saying.

MY own oppinion and please don't be offended by this, is that god is everyone's personal imaginary friend

[JenBKR]

Given the tone of previous posts by her, I think that is exactly what she was saying.

Do you mean me?

[shais_mom]

Do you mean me?
absolutely NOT!
pm'ing you - if you'll accept it

[dragonfly]

Myself, I certainly believe in a higher power not necessarily one labeled with the word God. I feel spirituality is a wonderful thing but religion tends to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Far too many people abuse religion and twist the teachings to fit their own agendas. I've also met way too many religious people who are hypocritical and just down right nasty. I also just don't believe there is only one true religion.

[trayi52]

Myself? Yes, I believe in God, because he loved me enough to send his son to die on the cross for me, to wipe away my sins. I love him very much.

Willie :)

[catnapper]

I haven't had time to read all the responses but it seems interesting so I will go back and read.

I am Catholic but stopped attending mass years ago. Why? I don't know. I think I became disillusioned when after a prayer meeting the other 20-somethings and I would try to figure out which diner to go to, and half of them would say "no, not that one, thats where the Jews hang out".... "not that one, thats where the Ricans hang out." It felt soooo phoney to be praising God and promise to be good Christians then to be condemning others and labeling them.

I was married in my back yard by a non-Catholic minister. I was adamant he marry us because he was my neighbor whom I adored... I wanted to be married by a friend not a starnger. My Catholic friends had SUCH a hard time about it. I don't understand why people make distininctions (sp?) about priests vs. ministers, etc. They are all reading from the same book, right?

Now I'm in the hard spot I'm in. I've been praying to God for guidance and help. Been thanking Him for what good things I encounter. I thought about going to church around here.... I can't bear to step into another Catholic church after my last experience, and I just don't identify with the other churches that don't recognise Mary since I always felt a strong connection to her.

My SIL is a devout Catholic. Her father was Schizophrenic and seriously, honestly thought he was Jesus. I'm am serious. My father was also Schizophrenic and my brother exhbits tendencies. My brother is a complete atheist. His take is that back n the day there were prophets. Today there are Schizophrenics. He goes to mass every Sunday with his devout wife and children. He listens to what the priest has to say and his wife hopes one day God will touch him, but it remains that he's atheist and believes what he believes. I think its amazing that two people with such vastly different opinions of God have such a loving and strong marriage. :)

[JenBKR]

Now I'm in the hard spot I'm in. I've been praying to God for guidance and help. Been thanking Him for what good things I encounter. I thought about going to church around here.... I can't bear to step into another Catholic church after my last experience, and I just don't identify with the other churches that don't recognise Mary since I always felt a strong connection to her.

Have you considered trying a Lutheran church? I have heard that they are very similar to Catholic churches. I don't know their stand on Mary, but it may be something to look into. :)

I understand why you would feel that way after what happened in that church...those people don't sound like they were acting very Christian :(

[VTJess03]

1. For CathyBogart: You stated that pagans believe in multiple deities; I am curious, do all pagans believe in the same deities? Are they deities with names and particular responsibilities (like the ancient Greek or Roman pantheon?).



2. For popcornbird: You asked some questions about Jesus before, and I would like to return with a question about Abraham, since he is the common ancestor to all 3 'major' religions. I have a very minimal knowledge of Islam, and most of that comes from a National Geographic documentary, as I could never convince my 1 Muslim college friend to discuss religion with me.

Anyway, here's the issue I struggle with in Islam: the Jewish/Old Testament Christian Scripture claims that Abraham's legitimate wife was Sarah, and Hagar was only a servant in the household. Sarah doubted God's word that she would bear a son to Abraham, due to her old age, so encouraged Abraham to father a child by Hagar. This happened (Ishmael), but then Sarah also conceived (Isaac). As the first son to the legitimate wife, Jews and Christians believe that all the inheritance rights went to Isaac. It's my understanding that Islam considered Hagar the legitimate wife and therefore Ishmael was the legitimate son who should have received inheritance of all the promises God made. However, according to Islam, God commanded Abraham to leave Hagar in the wilderness, though he visited her (which is the symbolism represented by Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca). The video claimed that Abraham actually divorced Hagar (which according to Jewish/Christian believers, there was never a marriage, so why divorce?), but Islam also frowns on divorce. Why would God ask someone to break His own rules? Would that not be out of character for God? He makes the rules, but He does not break His own rules...we break the rules all the time, being made of flesh and bone, of course.

I look forward to a deeper understanding about each of your beliefs.

[Zippy]

God can do anything he wants he is God if he wants to make earth vanish he can,if he wants to smash us all like bugs he can.The rules are his to make and change if he wants.
Someday people will vanish right out of there clothes.Then one person will get the world to go to a one world government.He will say he is god but he isn't he is the antichrist.He will get people to worship him.If the last days hadn't been shorten no one whould be left on earth.

[CathyBogart]

1. For CathyBogart: You stated that pagans believe in multiple deities; I am curious, do all pagans believe in the same deities? Are they deities with names and particular responsibilities (like the ancient Greek or Roman pantheon?).


No, all pagans do not believe in the same deities. Here's my take on it...

There are many many different panthenons of deities from many different cultures. I think that many of these are the same deities given different names over time by different peoples.

There are pagans who believe in entire panthenons, some who believe only in a mother goddess and father god, and some still who only believe in the mother goddess.

I personally use the names of the Celtic panthenon (with Danu and Dagda being the goddess and god, and other deitied like Diana, Brigit, Morrigan, etc) when I work, because those names come the most easily to my mind and just "feel" right to me. Yes, they are deities with specific responsibilities....for example, if I want help resolving a conflict, I would probably call on Morrigan (Goddess of war) for help.

Hmmm, I hope I explained that well...

[lizbud]

I am Catholic but stopped attending mass years ago. Why? I don't know. I think I became disillusioned when after a prayer meeting the other 20-somethings and I would try to figure out which diner to go to, and half of them would say "no, not that one, thats where the Jews hang out".... "not that one, thats where the Ricans hang out." It felt soooo phoney to be praising God and promise to be good Christians then to be condemning others and labeling them.



Well, you can hardly blame the church for your choice of friends.But then,
maybe you can, since you just did. :D

[catnapper]

Well, you can hardly blame the church for your choice of friends.But then,
maybe you can, since you just did. :D
Ah, but thats the thing - this was after I tried several different prayer groups. My best friend was so fed up that she started her own prayer group, which apparently is going super strong and has been what got many couples together leading to marriage. :)

I just became dis-illusioned with the whole concept.

It wasn't just that, I saw people sitting there with their families showing what wonderful Christians they were and I knew half of them were having affairs, cheating in business, lying to anyone who's listen.... and it seemed so WRONG. Why go to a place where it seemed everything was so staged?

I have found that I am much more spiritual alone than I was in any prayer group. I know myself and I know I'm a good person. I know I live by the values God asks us to live by. I had a real hard time knowing so many people at mass and in prayer groups were pretending ot be the perfect Christians in church but shed the ideas as soon as their weekly donation hit the basket.

[lizbud]

It wasn't just that, I saw people sitting there with their families showing what wonderful Christians they were and I knew half of them were having affairs, cheating in business, lying to anyone who's listen.... and it seemed so WRONG. Why go to a place where it seemed everything was so staged?



Not much different that most protestant Christian churches then huh?
Hypocrites are multi denominational. :D

[CathyBogart]

Catnapper, your post reminds me so much of why I am a solitary pagan rather than part of any coven or circle. I was interested in being part of a circle for awhile, but I got on their email list and I saw so much bickering and even a bit of bigotry towards members of other religions and I was just aghast. I poked around online and found that it is much the same in a lot of covens or circles, and I decided I didn't want to be a part of that.

There's no pressure when you're being spiritual on your own....the words are yours, the rituals are yours, it comes more from the heart, IMO....

[mugsy]

I think that God gave us free will for a reason....we can choose to worship whichever way we choose. I guess we'll all find out who is "right" when we die eh?

I personally think that most religions have at least 1 or 2 things that are "good" or "right" in them and that everyone should accept what others believe without, necessarily, agreeing with them.

I have friends from every religion known to man I think...except, I don't think any of them are Muslim...I have to think on that one, but, while I don't always agree with their belief system, I am still his/her friend.

[popcornbird]

2. For popcornbird: You asked some questions about Jesus before, and I would like to return with a question about Abraham, since he is the common ancestor to all 3 'major' religions. I have a very minimal knowledge of Islam, and most of that comes from a National Geographic documentary, as I could never convince my 1 Muslim college friend to discuss religion with me.

Anyway, here's the issue I struggle with in Islam: the Jewish/Old Testament Christian Scripture claims that Abraham's legitimate wife was Sarah, and Hagar was only a servant in the household. Sarah doubted God's word that she would bear a son to Abraham, due to her old age, so encouraged Abraham to father a child by Hagar. This happened (Ishmael), but then Sarah also conceived (Isaac). As the first son to the legitimate wife, Jews and Christians believe that all the inheritance rights went to Isaac. It's my understanding that Islam considered Hagar the legitimate wife and therefore Ishmael was the legitimate son who should have received inheritance of all the promises God made. However, according to Islam, God commanded Abraham to leave Hagar in the wilderness, though he visited her (which is the symbolism represented by Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca). The video claimed that Abraham actually divorced Hagar (which according to Jewish/Christian believers, there was never a marriage, so why divorce?), but Islam also frowns on divorce. Why would God ask someone to break His own rules? Would that not be out of character for God? He makes the rules, but He does not break His own rules...we break the rules all the time, being made of flesh and bone, of course.

I look forward to a deeper understanding about each of your beliefs.

Before I answer your question, I'd like to give you a little something to think about. In Judhism, Christianity, and Islam alike, Prophet Abraham was one of God's greatest Prophets, amongst the most pious of men, a man who completely submitted himself to God and taught the people about faith in One God alone, and the Prophet who was the forefather of all Prophets after him. In Judhism, Christianity, and Islam alike, committing sexual acts with a woman outside of marriage is a major sin and completely forbidden. Does it make any sense that one of God's greatest Prophets would do such a thing? Does it make any sense that a man who is the most pious of pious people would do such a thing? Does it make any sense that God would give Prophet Abraham such praise if he was one to disobey God and go against His commands? I cannot imagine. It just doesn't make any sense.

In Islamic beliefs, Sarah was Prophet Abraham's first wife. They lived in a time where people would worship idols made of clay and stone and wood, and did not believe in the One God. God sent Prophet Abraham to his people to guide them to the 'truth', and lead them to monotheism. The only known believers at the time were Prophet Abraham, Prophet Lot, and Sarah. Sarah and Prophet Abraham married. Later on, Hagar became their house servant. There were no believers at the time. Prophet Abraham's wife, Sarah, was infertile. She thus, encouraged Prophet Abraham to marry Hagar as a 2nd wife and have children with her. With Hagar, he had Ishmael, and in Islam, it was a completely legitimate marriage, and no divorce ever took place. I do want to clear one thing though, before I continue with the story. Divorce is not frowned upon in Islam like it is in Christianity. There has to be a valid reason for divorce, but divorce is allowed in Islam, for the reasons that in certain situations, it is sometimes an absolute necessity.

Now, back to the story...Prophet Abraham was commanded by God to leave his wife, Hagar, and his baby, Ishmael, in the desert of Mecca, Saudi Arabia, for a certain period of time. It was not an abandonment, but God had some wisdom behind this. Mecca was a city God had made holy, and by doing so, it eventually became the center of monotheism of the world. It is a long story, and I can narrate the whole thing if you like, but for now, I will keep it short, and to the point. Prophet Abraham and his son, Ishmael, both built the Ka'aba in Mecca. If you are unaware of what the Ka'aba is, it is the big black cube in the holy city of Mecca where millions of Muslims go every year for pilgrimage. Mecca is the center of God's worship in Islam, for that reason. Much of our faith revolves around belief in Prophet Abraham, the father of all prophets.

One more thing I'd like to mention. In Islamic beliefs, God never sent 'different' religions. He sent the same way of life and the same teachings to all of His prophets at different periods of time. We believe that Prophets Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad all brought the same message from God, and taught the same thing. We also believe that after Moses/Jesus, both Jews and Christians were awaiting another Prophet who would confirm the message brought by their Prophets, and this was something God foretold in their holy books. Prophet Abraham had two sons, Ishmael from Hagar, and Isaac from Sarah. Both Ishmael and Isaac became prophets of God. Prophet Isaac was the forefather of all later Prophts, until Jesus. Ishmael was the forefather of Prophet Muhammad pbuh.

When Prophet Muhammad came, many Jews and Christians recognized him as the Prophet they were waiting for, and accepted His message. There were others though, who rejected him, for the reason that he was from the generations of Ishmael, and not Isaac, as they were hoping for. Otherwise, they were positive that he was the prophet they were waiting for, but they chose to reject him for this reason.

I hope this helps in answering your question. :)

[RICHARD]

A new age is dawning
On fewer than expected
Business is usual
Thats how the headline read
Some shaky modern saviors
Have now been resurrected
In all this excitement
You may have been misled
People want a miracle
They say oh lord, cant you see us?
Were tryin to make a livin down here
And keep the children fed
But, from little dark motel rooms
To six flags over jesus
How are the mighty fallen
So the Bible said
You dont have to pray to a little tin god
Step out of the way for a little tin god
You might fear the reaper, you might fear the rod
But you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
No, you never have to get down on your knees
For a little tin god
The cowboys name was jingo
And he knew that there was trouble
So in a blaze of glory
He rode out of the west
No one was ever certain
What it was that he was sayin
But they loved it when he told them
They were better than the rest
But you dont have to pray for a little tin god
Step out of the way for a little tin god
You might hate to system, hate the job
But you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
No, you never have to get down on your knees
For a little tin god
Throw down a rope from heaven
And lead the flock to water
The man in the middle would have you think
That you have no other choice
But to wander in the wilderness
Of all the upturned faces
If you stop and listen long enough
You will hear your own small voice
But you dont have to pray to a little tin god
Step out of the way for a little tin god
You might fear the reaper, fear the rod
But you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
No, you never have to get down on your knees
You dont have to holler, please, please
You never have to get down on your knees
For a little tin god

__________________

Man proposes, God disposes.

[ramanth]

Catnapper, your post reminds me so much of why I am a solitary pagan rather than part of any coven or circle. I was interested in being part of a circle for awhile, but I got on their email list and I saw so much bickering and even a bit of bigotry towards members of other religions and I was just aghast. I poked around online and found that it is much the same in a lot of covens or circles, and I decided I didn't want to be a part of that.

There's no pressure when you're being spiritual on your own....the words are yours, the rituals are yours, it comes more from the heart, IMO....

I echo this sentiment. I tried joining a circle and there was so much fighting and strictness. That's the reason I left church in the first place. I feel physically ill sitting in church. It just doesn't feel right. I'm more of a spiritual person myself. I believe there is a higher power or powers and they could be aliens on Mars for all I know.

To me the bible was written by man and My Peanuts stated how I feel a few pages back. We as humans have always had our own agenda. According to the bible, I can stone my children or sell them into slavery. And don't tell me the Old Testament doesn't count. It was written right? So by your claims, it's the word of god.

But overall to me, if following the book and attending church makes you feel good then I'm happy for you. It's all about self esteem and not harming others.

Peas be with you. :)

[mugsy]

I am Catholic by birth and still feel strongly about my beliefs that are mostly modeled after that belief, but, I am, more and more, coming to believe that the Native Americans have it right.

I do see the Bible as a great piece of history and literature, but, like Kimmy, there are too many discrepancies and double speak to be taken literally. I'm all into interpretation...

And, yes, the Old Testament counts...good heavens....that's what the Jewish faith is based on and they have many very useful beliefs and traditions that hold a lot more common sense (after studying them) that some Christian traditions....

I also find it interesting that many (if not most) of the "religious" holidays coincide with many pagan holidays. And that many Jewish holidays are close to many Christian holidays....

[VTJess03]

Thanks, popcornbird and CathyBogart for your carefully thought out explanations. It definitely helps me to understand better where you're coming from.

:)

[RICHARD]

What religion is this?


If someone says that religion is evli, does that give the followers a right to riot, kill and burn buildings?


Again,

The morons who have hijacked Islam show just how stupid they are.

Prostest the writtenb/spoken word-then ignore the sins you perpetrate against your brothers and sisters. :rolleyes:

[Pam]

What religion is this?


If someone says that religion is evli, does that give the followers a right to riot, kill and burn buildings?


Again,

The morons who have hijacked Islam show just how stupid they are.

Prostest the writtenb/spoken word-then ignore the sins you perpetrate against your brothers and sisters. :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree with you more Richard. (I assume you are referring to the hullabaloo with the Pope's comments). That reaction to me was quite like what the *holier than thous* do by bombing abortion clinics. It is an excuse to demonstrate their own hate. :confused: :(

[JenBKR]

Couldn't agree with you more Richard. (I assume you are referring to the hullabaloo with the Pope's comments). That reaction to me was quite like what the *holier than thous* do by bombing abortion clinics. It is an excuse to demonstrate their own hate. :confused: :(

Another agreement here.

Also, something I don't understand. They were burning Vatican flags in protest, then threw in some American flags too during the same protest. :confused: Why? That didn't make sense to me. The Pope is not an American? Is it just me, or does that make no sense?

[RICHARD]

They were burning Vatican flags in protest, then threw in some American flags too during the same protest.


It was 'buy one , get one free day."

The freudian/islamic/moron/terrorists use the poor, uninformed people to do their dirty work.

Notice that you do not see the people rioting in the 'beter' neighborhoods.

They send their flunkies into the poor neighborhoods to rile up the poor people.

"hey, I got nothing better to do...let's go protest."

-----------------------------------------

I love the two-facedness of the 'peace loving' morons who are making the news circuits.


"The Pope is wrong!"


Wait unti he asks us Catholics to dress up in camo, hide our faces, burn flags and teach the children to mug for the camera while they wave toy guns and yell anti whoever slogans....


----------------------------


The good muslims are suffering because they have put their trust into a bunch of leaders who are bigoted, full of hate and stupid, to boot!

[lizbud]

Wait unti he asks us Catholics to dress up in camo, hide our faces, burn flags and teach the children to mug for the camera while they wave toy guns and yell anti whoever slogans....




You bring up something that's be bugging me. Why do the protesters
and chanters always cover their faces? Why do they hide themselves?


I think the pope could have used a different quote to prove the same
point he was trying to make in his speech. It was a speech at his own
old unniversity, so it was a gathering of scholars, but still. No matter what
he would have said, I don't think would make a difference to the Islamic
radicals because they seem pissed off at the rest of the world right now.

[RICHARD]

always cover their faces? Why do they hide themselves?





What good Muslim family wants to see their kid acting like a moron? :rolleyes:

[Vette]

I wish i could say i do...

i used to when i was little.. but have fallen off the path years ago. i havent been to church since i was 13 or so.. and im 25 now.

i just... dont understand what goes on the world and for there to be a God.
my short way of putting it.........

[jujuboy]

You know, going to church isn't the sole reason for "feeling like a believer" it's a relationship with the Father thru Jesus...we are the church, not the building..so, for all those who think that they are "off the track"..."don't speak to God".."stopped going to church" etc...you may feel like you are not having a relationship with God, but the truth is that God is always in tune with you and all your fallabilities/shortcomings/stumblings..and IS LOVING YOU THRU EACH TRIAL AND HARDSHIP YOU/WE ALL GO THRU..HE NEVER ABANDONS US..it is we fallable humans that gossip/put down/reject/hurt/cast aside/cast aspersions...my goodness! the list is endless!!!!...God is faithful and true to His word..His love covers a multitude of sins...His mercies are new every morning...and there is no path or valley you can wander down or even loose your way that will cause God to drop you from HIS firm and faithful grip with each and every life...and it's the Holy Spirit that brings life to every humans hurting heart...and it's hurt that causes us to turn away..In my lifetime, i have found (unfortunately) it is church members who have judged/criticized/gossiped other believers when they may be different or eccentric or walk to the beat of a different drum (if you know what i mean)..fear stops the Love of God teaching/showing/embracing all walks of life...i have found that the narrowmindedness of religious "believers" are striving to "keep their faith" and "do the right things" for God...when was the last time us believers sat down with a drunkard on the streets and just said.."gidday, how are you going?" and just listened instead of being in some mindset of.."oh, this is a lost sinner, i must save him/her it is my mandate from God to do this, coz if i don't God will be angry and this person will go to hell coz i didn't preach hard enough to make this sinner believe"...it is the Holy Spirit that brings the truth of Jesus to life in our hearts..and if He chooses to use you on that day/hour/minute, then so be it...just trust God to do the work and trust that God, the Creator of all, knows how to speak to our very lost/hurting/empty hearts...Jesus is the way the truth and the life..He knows ourselves better than we do..and i truly believe that He does a much better job at tenderly touching our ever searching hearts in a powerful way that you KNOW when you have been shown the GRACE and LOVE of our Father who cares for us deeply and leads each and every one of us in all truth!!!..doesnt matter if other religions say that they are right, or people say that us "christian are twisted"...just leave it to the amazing work of God to reveal Himself to all mankind..revelation comes thru the Holy Spirit..our walk is based on who we are in Jesus Christ and the rest and the peace that comes by knowing this in our hearts....He does the revealing not us..we speak the seeds, another waters but it's God who gives life!!! :D ( us believers don't always have to be in control...control is based in fear and fear is lead by hurts)...if you don't agree, that's kool..bless you anyway...i trust that my Father (God, is Sovereign..and KNOWS how to and WHEN to touch peoples life)...God Bless you all...and for those who are fed up with church...lay back in the arms of Jesus and surrender all the hurts and fears to HIM..He is the great Shepherd and HE knows how to care for you!!! :D...

[cloverfdx]

i just... dont understand what goes on the world and for there to be a God.
my short way of putting it.........
Vette that is my way of thinking aswell. My answer would be no i do not believe.

[Dorothy39]

jujuboy~

Your words comforted me today :o

[trayi52]

jujuboy, your words also comforted me. Your words sounded very familiar to me. Thank you for those words of comfort, especially now.

Willie

[shais_mom]

i just... dont understand what goes on the world and for there to be a God.
my short way of putting it.........



Vette that is my way of thinking aswell. My answer would be no i do not believe.
My thinking is if there is so many
bad things in the world we have to have something
bigger to believe in b/c if we didn't
why are we even here??

[Christiansmommy]

You know, going to church isn't the sole reason for "feeling like a believer" it's a relationship with the Father thru Jesus...we are the church, not the building..so, for all those who think that they are "off the track"..."don't speak to God".."stopped going to church" etc...you may feel like you are not having a relationship with God, but the truth is that God is always in tune with you and all your fallabilities/shortcomings/stumblings..and IS LOVING YOU THRU EACH TRIAL AND HARDSHIP YOU/WE ALL GO THRU..HE NEVER ABANDONS US..it is we fallable humans that gossip/put down/reject/hurt/cast aside/cast aspersions...my goodness! the list is endless!!!!...God is faithful and true to His word..His love covers a multitude of sins...His mercies are new every morning...and there is no path or valley you can wander down or even loose your way that will cause God to drop you from HIS firm and faithful grip with each and every life...and it's the Holy Spirit that brings life to every humans hurting heart...and it's hurt that causes us to turn away..In my lifetime, i have found (unfortunately) it is church members who have judged/criticized/gossiped other believers when they may be different or eccentric or walk to the beat of a different drum (if you know what i mean)..fear stops the Love of God teaching/showing/embracing all walks of life...i have found that the narrowmindedness of religious "believers" are striving to "keep their faith" and "do the right things" for God...when was the last time us believers sat down with a drunkard on the streets and just said.."gidday, how are you going?" and just listened instead of being in some mindset of.."oh, this is a lost sinner, i must save him/her it is my mandate from God to do this, coz if i don't God will be angry and this person will go to hell coz i didn't preach hard enough to make this sinner believe"...it is the Holy Spirit that brings the truth of Jesus to life in our hearts..and if He chooses to use you on that day/hour/minute, then so be it...just trust God to do the work and trust that God, the Creator of all, knows how to speak to our very lost/hurting/empty hearts...Jesus is the way the truth and the life..He knows ourselves better than we do..and i truly believe that He does a much better job at tenderly touching our ever searching hearts in a powerful way that you KNOW when you have been shown the GRACE and LOVE of our Father who cares for us deeply and leads each and every one of us in all truth!!!..doesnt matter if other religions say that they are right, or people say that us "christian are twisted"...just leave it to the amazing work of God to reveal Himself to all mankind..revelation comes thru the Holy Spirit..our walk is based on who we are in Jesus Christ and the rest and the peace that comes by knowing this in our hearts....He does the revealing not us..we speak the seeds, another waters but it's God who gives life!!! :D ( us believers don't always have to be in control...control is based in fear and fear is lead by hurts)...if you don't agree, that's kool..bless you anyway...i trust that my Father (God, is Sovereign..and KNOWS how to and WHEN to touch peoples life)...God Bless you all...and for those who are fed up with church...lay back in the arms of Jesus and surrender all the hurts and fears to HIM..He is the great Shepherd and HE knows how to care for you!!! :D...


Wow...I couldn't have said this better myself!!! Every last word of your post is sooo true...I guess all I can add to it is, Amen ;)

[Chilli]

No.
When I was little, a good friend I knew(I saw her as a friend.. eventhough she was much much older than me) told me her opinion. She believed that religion was made up by ordinary people to help them explain what might lay ahead. The future is so uncertain, and so many people are scared of it, so they try to find some refuge in believing there is a high being to care for them and all.
I've studied different religions, and I've tried to understand them to the fullest extent, but my mind always goes back to what I was told so long ago.. about how people are the ones who come up with religion.
I live by the day. I don't count on something that has been said in the past nor something that may be in the future. I make every day count.
I completely respect others in whatever religion or lack-of-religion they follow. :D We were all raised diferently and all have a mind of our own.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

I guess you could say I'm an agnostic. I believe that there is a possibility that God exists, but I am undecided and I don't really know if such a thing is even knowable.

[Argranade]

Again I do belive in god,

I don't need to see any proof, just because there are wars and such does not mean it's all gods doing .. man has lead him self into his own fate not god.

Some people think it's just too un-real for them so they choose not to belive, they may even think christians are just following a croud but there is more too it.

It's very hard to belive in god when you where never taught about it, you may not even know where to begin that's what I think is kinda weird because how can you go to heaven if you don't know what to do.

Well everyone has there own way of life and no one can force them into god, it's up to themselfs to belive it or not ... there is some proof of creative things in the world and videos if you want to see somthing but I don't need to see to belive.

[Husky15]

When I was born, up to the age of nine, I lived in a non-Christian family, but my parents were and still are great people and did a great job on raising me. My sister started going to my cousin's church (my cousins and aunt and uncle were strong Christians) and a little while later she introduced my parents and I to that church. Well my sister came to know the Lord, then my mom, and then me, and then my father.

When I was younger, I was afraid of my room when it came to bed-time. So when I was praying, I would not end the prayer, I would say "good-night" and I would feel that God was sitting near, protecting me. It gave me nice sleeps.

So I do believe in God, I've just lost my relationship with Him and at one point was going down a path that isn't so good.

Religion is, and always has been, a subject for me that I've gotten into a fair amount of fights, so I usually try to avoid speaking of it on forums and stuff. I totally respect other religions, it's just when people say rude things about mine [Christianity] that starts the fight. But everyone here respects everyone's religions, which is a nice change :).

[Giselle]

My thinking is if there is so many
bad things in the world we have to have something
bigger to believe in b/c if we didn't
why are we even here??

Ah, the age old question... Why ARE we here on this earth? What is our purpose? How can we exist without a purpose?

My mind is a jumble of contradictory statements, facts, anecdotes, miracles, failures, and confusion. I am completely lost as to how to possibly place my thoughts into words, but here's the jist of it:

I believe religion is a manifestation of man's curiousity and inability to explain the unexplainable. I believe that as man grew more intelligent and aware of his surroundings (evolution), so did religion. Religion has been a part of man since we first began to harness the power of fire. Since the first ancient man walked upon this earth, there has been religion in the form of shells, burial rituals, and artwork. However, I believe that as time and circumstances pushed men to the creation of civilization, religion evolved once again to be morphed into a lever for power and control.

That said, I guess you could label me an Agnostic for now, but I like to refer to my mind as an endless notebook with no back cover. I believe that there is a higher power out there somewhere. Maybe Catholics like to call it God/Him/Our Father, etc. Maybe others like to call it Allah. Frankly, I don't know what to call it and I don't even know if it truly exists. However, I know that the biodiversity of life is far too complex and intricate to just "exist" as it does now. Somewhere somehow I believe a higher power was involved. I just don't believe that we must worship this higher power in the form of Catholicism's God or Islam's Allah.

I don't know. I guess this was a sort of pointless post since it didn't "get" anywhere. :o

ETA: I also wanted to add that Christianity, for example, is so "split" in itself. On the first page, a poster said that religion was a bit hard for her to stomach because of the idea that her life was planned out before she was born (pre-destination). Another poster than said that a person is in control of his/her own actions in the Christian belief. Well... They're both right. Pre-destination is a pillar fundamental in Calvinism, which, last time I checked is still a form of Christianity. Then again, Catholicism (still a form of Christianity) believes that one is in control of his/her actions which leads to personal sins and does not necessarily believe in pre-destination the way Calvinists do.

Just this simple disagreement among Christians makes me wonder about the validity of any religion. *sigh* I guess I talked myself into a circle again :p

[shais_mom]

I wasn't really expecting an answer so I shouldn't have asked the question. ;)
I believe in God the Father - that He made Heaven and Earth - and had One Son that he gave up for our sins. Noone's opinion is going to change that. Have there been times I questioned God? Yes. Have there been times I asked
"If you are a loving God why?" Yes. Has my faith been shook over some events? Yes. Do I still believe? YES. I have seen God work in wonderous ways and no way shape or form can science or evolution explain that.
My cousin's maternal side is the strict = my way or no way religion. That isn't Christianity. That is their intrepetation of it. Their intrepatation is as wrong to me as those who are suicide bombers that kill people in the name of a Higher Power.
I'm not trying to get anyone to believe the way I do. I respect everyone's opinion I just don't agree with some of them, but that's fine b/c they don't agree with me either.

[JenBKR]

I wasn't really expecting an answer so I shouldn't have asked the question. ;)
I believe in God the Father - that He made Heaven and Earth - and had One Son that he gave up for our sins. Noone's opinion is going to change that. Have there been times I questioned God? Yes. Have there been times I asked
"If you are a loving God why?" Yes. Has my faith been shook over some events? Yes. Do I still believe? YES. I have seen God work in wonderous ways and no way shape or form can science or evolution explain that.
My cousin's maternal side is the strict = my way or no way religion. That isn't Christianity. That is their intrepetation of it. Their intrepatation is as wrong to me as those who are suicide bombers that kill people in the name of a Higher Power.
I'm not trying to get anyone to believe the way I do. I respect everyone's opinion I just don't agree with some of them, but that's fine b/c they don't agree with me either.


I couldn't agree more :)

[Zippy]

I belive in God and Jesus.Jesus died for my sins.Do i belive that someday the christans will disapper out of there clothes in the rapture and all the non-christans will be left behind? Yes! Do I know I will go to heaven? Yes!

[dab_20]

I think I do. I really am not sure, yet. I really want to believe in God... but I have doubts, also. I'm not really sure why I have those doubts. In my religion it would be really bad to say "I'm not sure God is real". It's all sort of confusing, How can you be sure something is real that you cannot see? And How can God let all the bad things in the world happen? I was told that everything happens for a reason. I can question God throughout my whole life, but I think I will always believe in him.
I was born into being Catholic, my family is. When I grow up I think I will change my religion, but I will always be religious in some way.

I believe that there is no such thing as hell. I think everyone who is good goes to heaven. (good meaning as trying as hard as they can to be good, but sorry for their sins) God will always forgive those who ask for forgivness. And I am not sure what happens to the truly bad people.

My post may have been kind of confusing. But, yes, overall I do believe in God.

[cali]

I belive that God and Science go together, I dont belive in any one God, and all other are wrong, I simpley believe there is a higher being or beings. I belive that "God" created the earth and , s/he created the primitive life, evolution happend from there. docters do not interfere with "Gods" plan, I beleive that Docters ARE "Gods" plan. as for bads things happening to innocent people? try taking a look at the big picture.

yes bad things have happend and innocent people have died, however look at what happend after? after the Tsunami the whole world banded together despite differences to help others. I garentee that if the Tsunami had never happend nobody would have given a second thought to the folks living there, much less helped them, or shown kindness.

latley there have been a lot of disasters, and every one of them has brought us closer together, or made us stop and think in the midst of our hurried lives. in this day and age we are all too caught up in our own money and wealth to take notice of anything else, when these distasters happen we are FORCED to take notice, and what do we do? we stop being so selfish and help those in need. AKA The big Picture.

[jujuboy]

you know what someone said to me once when i was REALLY sick and recovery was SO LONG DOWN THE TRACK?....how do you eat an elephant?..(her reply was)...bit by bit!!!...it's an analogy to faith/belief/trust in "GOD" His Love/His Realness/His existance!!!...I had gone thru TOO MUCH hardship as a child and as a young adult to not eventually "see" that the existance of GOD was a fact of life...so..bit by bit i am "seeing" and "knowing His Presence in my life..and i have learnt along the way to not "try" to convince people in the existance of God...it's just too much of a headache and heartache...prayer is powerful, and i do believe that (thru experience) that when God wants to "intervene and touch lives"...He does it!! and He never gives up on us just because we say..no, i don't believe (that's why there are so many praying believers out there that God uses to pray for you when you are not able to pray or believe yourselves...it's okay..He'll work it out..your part in it to just ask Him to take over and use you if He wants to!!..really simple!!..Horses for courses..each unto their own..God so knows how to speak to people's hearts and for all those who don't believe, that's kool as well coz you are all included in His involvement in everyone's life..as hardened as we all are and can be with hurts and those cold and dead feelings that tend to "hang around" in us...God does such an amazing job at reaching into people's lives...despite our stuff-ups and despite other people making life harder for us in all aspects...for those who get the gist of what i've typed, trust Him to work in your life and others..pray and leave it to Him..and for those who just don't get what is written..ask God to show you what He's really all about, and don't worry about "not getting an answer" or "not believing He can give you an answer"...coz one day, either when you are at your lowest or vulnerable and hurting or suffering depression or have closed off coz "it's just to darn hard to believe" and that people will always try to "lead you up a garden path(lead you astray)....God will intervene and He'll do it in a way that is either so simple and tender or "smak dab" in the middle of your face!!!..and then when you say those all too true words of "Ahh Hah!!..Oh, I get it!!"...and it sticks inside of you like you have been GIVEN understanding...that is when you have begun to eat an elephant...bit by bit!!!...getting to understand and know God is step by step and Jesus has such a major part in all of understanding God..you will never separate the truth of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit..THEY ARE ONE!!!...and they all work together...i know that this sounds like a real headtrip, it did for me for many years and i just tormented myself in trying to work it out..eventually i just let it all go and said to God.."If your real, You work it out for me and help me to hear/know/embrace your truth and KNOW when you are speaking to me, and He has!!..for many years now, and is continuing...i don't despair any more, coz i know that i don't have to work it out..He does it all, i just let Him know what I'm thinking and feeling and am not afraid to let Him know when i'm angry with Him, to point of not wanting to talk to God for a long time!!! and not really giving a Rip!!!...that's kool, coz He hasn't forgotten me and patiently waits for me to call upon Him again even though He continues to work thru my life in the way of people/animals/creation/the lot!!...when you go thru a major breakdown and you loose EVERYTHING!! even your marbles(mind)...i dont know about you guys, but i found that all i could say was..God help! and sometimes, nothing at all, HE KNEW THE CRY FROM WITHIN, THE GROANING AND THE TEARS..that was all i was able to say..could'nt say or do anything else..how's that for vulnerability and helplessness and powerlessness...you soon realise after a while WHO is keeping you alive and where your next breath comes from...so..HOW DO YOU EAT AN ELEPHANT???..bit by bit!! :D ....sorry, i'm raving again :p ..now you're probably thinking.."crazy aussie God tripper!!"..so be it...GOD BLESS YOU IN ALL YOU DO AND WHAT EVER ROAD YOU WALK ON...GOD'S THERE WITH YOU, STEP BY STEP... :) Jujuboy :cool:

[cyber-sibes]

Isn't it interesting that opinions & beliefs are so varied? fascinating...
Do I believe in a god? Oh yeah, this universe is way too complex to have just "happened" on its own.
Do I believe in God? Always have, always will. My conception of God has changed as my spiritual journey progresses. I've walked down several "paths", and grown in understanding with each one.
This is where I'm at at this point:

We're all born with a "God-size hole", and a desire to fill it up. Our curiosity, our need for answers, our need for purpose, all feed into what path we choose. Some choose structured religions, some choose science, others choose drugs, some choose a hedonistic lifestyle, others choose spirituality outside formal structure. We get to choose, and then live with the consequences of those choices. We're here on this earth to grow into a more mature spirituality, before we move on to whatever's next for us.

My personal experience is that I've found two different organizations that I resonate with. One has formal religious teachings, and one has no religious affiliation. One group has many atheists in it, but recognition that there is a Higher Power, something greater than yourself, is essential. The other group includes people from all sorts of "religious" backgrounds, who now seek to change their lives based on the application of Spiritual Principles. I love growing spiritually, it's an adventure that never ends! My life is richer because of my spiritual quest.

Something I try to bear in mind is that I cannot judge another's experiences, because I don't know what their soul is here to learn. I can only learn my lessons. I believe in an afterlife because nothing in this universe can be destroyed, everything simply changes its form of energy. Everything is God-energy transformed. I personally don't believe that any single religion has an exclusive claim on "The Truth". Truth is truth, no matter what the source.

I encourage each person to keep an open mind, and an open heart. Namaste :)

[junescrater716]

I don't believe in a God I believe in a higher being. To me some man or woman sitting up in heaven on a throne with angels flying around is too "cartoonish". I can't describe it any other way than that. I don't neccisarily have a religion. Witches believe in a higher being is what I was told. That is what I believe. At school one day my best friend asked me if I believe in God and I said "I don't know" It then got around that I didn't believe in God. NOT TRUE. Like I said before I believe in a higher being.
I told everyone that and they just gave me this look like I was crazy. I go to my friends church for her youth group to play games and stuff once in a while but I don't actually go there.

[borzoimom]

I soundly, whole heartedly, and completely believe in God.. !

[junescrater716]

:)!!!

[CathyBogart]

I was curious; quite awhile back we had a thread in here where various people talked about their religious beliefs and practices and other people were respectful and asked questions and we all learned a lot about each other. I was thinking about starting another one of those since we have so many new members and I'm sure a lot of new information. Would anyone be interested, and do you think we can all behave again?

I thought it was wonderful how we talked for pages and pages about something that can be so touchy and I don't think any feathers got ruffled.

[junescrater716]

That would be fun! I'm still looking for my religion so why not?!

[JenBKR]

I was curious; quite awhile back we had a thread in here where various people talked about their religious beliefs and practices and other people were respectful and asked questions and we all learned a lot about each other. I was thinking about starting another one of those since we have so many new members and I'm sure a lot of new information. Would anyone be interested, and do you think we can all behave again?

I thought it was wonderful how we talked for pages and pages about something that can be so touchy and I don't think any feathers got ruffled.

I think it's a fantastic idea, I remember the thread you are talking about (I think) and everyone was so gracious. I always love learning about other beliefs. I think we can all behave :)

[Argranade]

Yes that sounds intresting, maybe ask everyone too ''What's our purpose on earth?'' cause that's why some people don't belive in anything cause they don't know the answer to that .. maybe some members have clues or answers hopefuly to that question .. it's probably one of the hardest questions I know (For me anyway) but I still belive in god with all my heart.

[CathyBogart]

Okay, well, when I get home from school today I'll write it up. :) :)

[Giselle]

Oh Shais Mom, I wasn't trying to answer your question ;) I just quote it because your post sparked my train of thought and I just kept typing. I didn't even notice the connection until now, LOL. Cathy, I'm going over to your thread right now. This should be very very interesting!