Religion.. a dangerous topic

[ylrebmik]

Alright hopefully this wont turn "icky" but.. Why does religion control people so much? I know it is a part of them but some of the things are just out of hand. My dad told me America doesn't even have a religion officially since it was free to all. So people were trying to make Christianity the religion but then some mexicans had a problem with it. Then people try putting up a christmas tree and a few jews decide to change it to a holiday tree and instead of "merry christmas".. "happy holidays". Does it really matter? No matter what religion you are.. they all teach you almost the same things. Don't they? I am not saying Christianity is any better than anyone elses' but what condemns people to make such rash movements. America is suppose to be the land of the free. Now we have people sueing everyone for everything. We have people raping little children. We have people changing the name of a simple tree that represents the FEELING of the holiday. If people have a religion.. why can't they live their religion to the fullest and in peace.. not trying to bash others' beliefs or change others'.

[beeniesmom]

Kimberly,
America is a melting pot of cultures, traditions and yes, religions too.
That is what makes it so great.
We have our crazies that do awful things, but hey, what country doesn't?
I don't think any religion is "better" than another.
It's all about having good morals and not hurting other people/animals and being an overall good person.
A person of any religion can do that.

[Lady's Human]

I think if you do some more research on the topic you'll find that it wasn't mexicans (Great traditional nordeamericano whipping boy) or jews (another traditional whipping boy) who started the disputes.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

... and people sueing people and people raping children is caused INSPITE of religion, not because of it. :(

[VTJess03]

I can't speak for other religions, but I happen to be a practicing Christian; to me that means admitting my own mistakes and trying to become better according to the direction given in the Bible. It does not involve judging others for their actions, or trying to force my beliefs on unwilling recipients. As far as I'm concerned, sick people go to the doctor when they're feeling sick and sinners go to church when they feel convicted. You don't find people at the doctor who aren't willing to admit their sickness, right? I will share with people who are willing to listen, but don't believe in forcing my opinions on others.

As far as the whole Christmas tree vs. holiday tree, I think that's gotten a bit ridiculous. There has never been a tree used to represent a holiday other than Christmas at that time of year...and the tree itself really has nothing to do with the religious beliefs anyway...it's just something that started as a tradition at the winter holidays back in Europe however many years ago. Kind of like how does the Easter bunny have anything to do with remembering the crucifixion/resurrection of Christ? Umm, nothing, but it's now a harmless part of the springtime holiday season; I have no problem with that. If you look at polls, it's something like 96% of Americans that claim to celebrate Christmas (of course that does not separate those who celebrate for religious reasons from those who celebrate according to how retail stores have taught us to do); are we not a country that is ruled by the majority?

As far as America being the land of the free; the statement that's made is that we have 'freedom of religion' not 'freedom from religion' (just watch out you don't tell someone who may try to get a Constitutional Amendment to have that changed, lol :D )

[CathyBogart]

As far as the whole Christmas tree vs. holiday tree, I think that's gotten a bit ridiculous. There has never been a tree used to represent a holiday other than Christmas at that time of year...and the tree itself really has nothing to do with the religious beliefs anyway...it's just something that started as a tradition at the winter holidays back in Europe however many years ago.

The Yule tree was actually a pagan tradition adopted by Christianity. The tree was a symbol for deity because rather than going brown and lifeless over the winter the evergreen remains lush and bright. The trees were decorated with symbols for prosperity, and eventually some pagans brought them indoors to invite fae or small folk into their homes. Christianity adopted the practice of bringing decorated trees into their houses sometime during the 16th century.


Kind of like how does the Easter bunny have anything to do with remembering the crucifixion/resurrection of Christ? Umm, nothing, but it's now a harmless part of the springtime holiday season; I have no problem with that.


Easter was originally Ostara, a pagan celebration of spring. The Easter Hare was a companion to Eostra, the goddess of spring, and also a symbol of fertility, since celabration of fertility was a huge part of the celebration of spring. The Easter Hare often brought children gifts...usually....colored eggs!


I like to talk about religion, learn about it, even debate it in a civil manner. This forum is the only forum I've ever seen do that successfully, I think it says a lot about the caliber of people here. :)

[elizabethann]

Interesting you should post a topic on religion. My family and I just came back from the Museum of Science in Boston. They have an exhibit called Body Works. It's an exhibit of human cadavers and they're all sliced open so you can see inside them. Sounds gross but it really was very interesting.

Anyhow, my Mom said to see all this, you have to believe there is a God. But I said, what if all these molucules, organisms and bacteria came together billions of years ago and created man?

Well, that became a heated discussion about God, religion & science. The ride back to NH was a loooooong one.

[Catty1]

I always wondered why evolution and the power of (insert name of deity here) were not the same thing.

All I know is - I can't make a tree. And I don't know anyone who can.

The Life Force by any other name is awesome and amazing....

jmo

C

[RICHARD]

I think if you do some more research on the topic you'll find that it wasn't mexicans (Great traditional nordeamericano whipping boy) or jews (another traditional whipping boy) who started the disputes.


Ai Dios! ;)

Religion is a wonderful thing.

It explains everything we do not have an answer for.

It all goes wrong when people try to push THEIR religion on others.

What gets lost on everyone is belief.

When you lose the ability to believe in YOUR god, People try to flill in the blanks.

That's where the human bias takes over and hate begins.

[ylrebmik]

yup. it all goes wrong when people try pushing religion. My friend is a perfect example. A few months back we were talking and we got into the topic of religon. She is a Christian and believes all other branches of Christianity and any other religion is wrong. (I've been "raised" Catholic) She says Catholics are a bunch of nuts and worship the wrong things.. even though Catholics are part of Christianity. Anyways, we started getting into this huge argument and at the end she was screaming at me and crying saying i want to save you i want to save you. I started laughing because that converstation was the one thing i hate that people do.. push religion on another. I think it is good to know what others' believe and great if you can talk about it without going into a fight but just the pushing. My dad says the same thing with... that you just have to believe. It seems as we grow up.. we lose belief in a lot. Kids have big imaginations and beliefs and then slowly lose it. :(

[Catty1]

I was "saved" once....just to spare my friend the grief of thinking I was going to hell.

She was SO upset!

She felt better, and we went our merry ways.

I was a teenager in the late 60's and 70's and 'getting saved' was quite trendy. Some pop religious songs even made it onto the Top 10.

Live and let live...JMO

[ylrebmik]

We just try not to bring up religion anymore but she finally realizes why i hate how people push religion on some people. But she is still very firm in it all.. her uncle is a pastor so whatever she learned.. its firm. I just don't get if she is Christian.. why does she think that all branches are bad.. they work towards the same beliefs except a few minor differences.

[Laura's Babies]

Does it really matter? No matter what religion you are.. they all teach you almost the same things

I am with you ylrebmik on that. There is but 1 God, 1 Creator and no matter what religion you are, you are worshiping the same God that the rest of us worship. So WHY is there a problem?

I do have a problem with the person that tell's the Jew or Catholic that they are going to hell because of their religion. As long as you worship and pray in your own way, that is all that matters. I have lost respect for many people over that one thing. I do not push my beliefs on anyone and I don't want someone elses pushed on me.

[Miss Z]

I came across this thread (http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthread.php?t=26359), which I think displays perfectly why people are sometimes turned away from religion.

I have been an atheist for some time, but I have the utmost respect for religious beliefs of any religion. I think perhaps, as an atheist, you can take in a few more of the origins and reasons for different beliefs without thinking whether it's wrong or right.

What I do hate though, are the people that try to ram religion down your throat with threats of going to hell, or those who think they are 'god's elite' because they attend religious places of worship on a regular basis. Of course, that is not directed to anyone here, people like that are in a tiny minority, but these people do exist. I have been to church about 3 times in my life, and I have to say I found it extremely depressing and in a way, a little offensive. You could tell the 'regulars' were looking at us as though we didn't deserve to be there, and they never once spoke to us or passed us a hymn book or anything. They are the sort of people that have put me off having any faith in religion.

Just in my humble opinion :)

[JenBKR]

I am a Christian. Religion is something that is very important to me. I certainly hope that I have never come across as trying to push my beliefs on anyone, and if I have then I apologize. I know I have gotten a bit hot over some debates before about religion, not just here, but I think that's usually when people tell me I am wrong for what I believe. I would NEVER tell someone else that they are going to hell, because, to me, that is between them and God. I know people who seem to practice religion for show, or look down on others for whatever reason, and I believe that's wrong too. Personally, I am fascinated by other religions and beliefs.

[ylrebmik]

me too, i love hearing about what others' practice. I am almost obsessed with Star Wars so i bought a book Star Wars and Philosophy and it is amazing. There is so many different religions and practices that were made into that movie. I believe a ramble of different things so I'm trying to find a religion that works for me. I don't want to call myself A_______ if i don't believe everything or almost everything. I love philosophy and "people watching"- along with traditions and cultures. We had an entire class on it last year and it was absolutly amazing reading about everyone elses' religon.

[CathyBogart]

I am with you ylrebmik on that. There is but 1 God, 1 Creator and no matter what religion you are, you are worshiping the same God that the rest of us worship. So WHY is there a problem?


I don't worship, and I work with many deities, not just one...

[VTJess03]

I have been to church about 3 times in my life, and I have to say I found it extremely depressing and in a way, a little offensive. You could tell the 'regulars' were looking at us as though we didn't deserve to be there, and they never once spoke to us or passed us a hymn book or anything. They are the sort of people that have put me off having any faith in religion.


I'm sorry you had such a bad experience...it's never easy to feel like you're being singled out...I don't have faith in any religion either...I just have faith in God. My experiences have led me to accept the Christian viewpoint as my own, but my faith is not in the 'religion' (i.e. the routines, ceremonies, rituals, hymns, etc.). In short, I worship Christ, not Christianity. Everything I hear in church, I question and research for myself before I adopt it into my own beliefs; if I find that my beliefs were wrong, according to Biblical truth (taken in context), then I change my opinion. If I can find no written support for a claim, I retain my old opinion.

The thing with a belief system, whether it's religious or not, is that we each think we're right. If we thought we were wrong, wouldn't we believe something else? We would not go on believing we are wrong about something. That's against human nature. If you have a different belief system from mine, I would expect you to uphold the values of your system, not mine. I would also hope you would hold me up to the standards of my system, and not yours. I do try to hold myself accountable to my own standards, but I admit that I fail at it a lot of the time. I'm just happy that my belief system has a component to it that involves forgiveness when I mess up, and I try not to abuse that privelege.

Oh, and thanks CathyBogart for clarifying the pagan origins of those Christian holiday symbols :)

[ylrebmik]

One thing i do love from one religion is in Buddism. I love the whole selflessness part of it.

[ramanth]

Hi Kimberly,

We share the same name and the love of Star Wars. The book you described sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out. :)

As far as religion goes, I too don't have a problem with what people believe in as long as it doesn't harm others.

Personally I'm just a spiritual type Pagan. Earth lovin' tree hugger. ;)

[ylrebmik]

hehe thats awesome. For a while i called star wars my religion :P On an interview with George lucus (christain) he said a lot of it was based off of Christianity and other religions. In that book i was reading, there is a section on Stoics. There way of life is exacly how Yoda lives. It was very facinating. Even though i was already obsessed with star wars- it made get even deeper into the anatomy in it. I really do believe in a lot of things from Star Wars- but those ideas are from other religions so it isn't as crazy as it seems :) Yup, I don't have a problem- until people start having wars over it saying "their god wanted it". Almost every God was asking for peace. "love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek"

[dragonfly]

I consider myself to be spiritual, not religious. Probably leaning more to the Pagan and Buhdist type religion if any. Every religion I've ever read or heard anything about has the same values and beliefs, so it's hard for me to understand all the arguing about it. I know people feel passionately about their religions but if they could just take a step back they would see that other religions aren't all that diferent from their own. :)