Horrible experience @ pet store...

[Bronx'sBower]

I feel completely de-immoralized after visiting our local pet store...won't say any names. Our Bower is extremely vocal and will bark for hours on end...he usually just barks at me because as of right now daddy is the Alpha and I am trying to gain my Alpha status, I think Bower thinks he's my boss. A while ago I remembered someone asking about how to stop their excessive barker. When Bower barks I will let him out, check his food and water, play but sometimes none of these are what he wants. I get frustrated so I started ignoring him but after a solid hour of barking I couldn't stand it any longer. I read on here that the citronella and shock collars were NOT a good idea and my vet agreed with me. We discussed a muzzle called "the husher" and I figured this pet store might have one. I took it up to the counter with his treats and new toothpaste and the girl at the counter ripped me apart! She acted like I was killing my baby! She completely humilated me and told me that I was being inhumane in my decision to put a muzzle on my pup. Then she said snotty:"What would you put a muzzle on a puppy for anyway?" Ohh I could barely contain myself! I said "First off I would rather take advice from my veterinarian than a sales clerk at a pet store! Secondly don't make judgements about me or my puppy-who by the way at 7 months weighs over 60 pounds...." She made me so mad! Who is she to judge? Then she tells me that they carry shock collars and citronella collars and they are "way less inhumane than a muzzle..." (her exact words) How is spraying your dog with citronella or shocking the sh*t out of them more humane than a removable muzzle that would only be used for training purposes? Man I am frustrated! I wanted to call the manager and tell her I thought her employee was wrong in belittling me in that way BUT the manager was agreeing with her. She said bad owners make bad pets not shock collars and that it's a common misconception that when the dog barks and gets shocked and continues barking and getting shocked when startled....I have heard of this happening way too much for her to think it's a misconception....
So am I a bad owner for ALMOST buying a muzzle? He is beginning his obedience classes in September and for that I can't wait. The most humilating part was every single customer in the store heard what she was saying to me and started talking...I don't want people to think I am a bad mom because of her! Not to mention I noticed she was being rude with the customers in front of me-they were buying some flea and tick powder for carpet and the girl told them not to put down the powder but to put the dog in the room with fleas so they jump on him. She said since the dog has flea treatment, the fleas would jump on him and die off. She said fleas have no need or want with humans-they only want dogs or cats....thats funny because if I am in a house that has fleas I am covered in flea bites...but there aren't interested in humans? This girl pissed off the people in front of me but not nearly as much as she did me.....grrrrrr
Sorry for the vent but I had to get it off my chest.....and no I never bought the muzzle (which doesn't cover the whole snout-it is the thickness of a leash, well it looks like a leash for around the mouth)

[RedyreRotties]

I would ask a few questions, if you don't mind?

What breed is this puppy?

How old?

At what age was he removed from his littermates?

What sort of training class have you attended with the puppy?

Where does this puppy live when you are at home?

When you are not at home?

How is he confined when he is outdoors?

How much exercise does he get in a day?

If you can answer these questions, I might be able to give you some helpful hints.

I would not use a muzzle to curtail barking. IMO a collar would be much more effective and humane.

[Dorothy39]

I would simply report this persons conduct to her employer!!!!Period!!! ;)

[Aurie]

I would definately report her as well. It is one thing if you asked for advice. But she has no right to question you especially if it is a product her employer obviously finds acceptable to sell.

[Bronx'sBower]

Hey red (sorry forgot the spelling by the time I got here :))....to answer your questions:
What breed is this puppy? When we adopted him they said he was a boxer-mix but as he has grown we feel he has a lot of german shepard in him (I also know both boxers and german shepards are vocal dogs...I think)

How old?
7 almost 8 months old and 60 plus pounds...

At what age was he removed from his littermates?
I can't really say because we rescued him when he was 3 months but the picture from the boxer rescue was from when he was 10 weeks...I think his previous owner got him a couple weeks prior to giving him up.

What sort of training class have you attended with the puppy?
I have done basic training between with my boss who is a vet and knows a bit about training but I know I did a bad thing by not getting him to an actual obedience class soon after getting him...He listened real well from the beginning and wasn't ever very vocal but now he is in his "teen" years and he is extremely vocal and can be aggressive towards me when we play...I do have his beginning obedience classes registered and he will start in early September...I know I know, shame on me for not doing it sooner right?

Where does this puppy live when you are at home?
When I am at home he has most free roam in and out (doggy door) but if he misbehaves or gets too excited he goes in his crate, 9 times out of 10 if he's gotten into something he shouldn't have he puts himself in the crate. He is a very good dog...when HE wants to be.

When you are not at home?
In his kennel-or his "bedroom"...when he gets excited we tell him to go to his room and he goes in the crate and rests until he's better.
How is he confined when he is outdoors?

How much exercise does he get in a day?
He gets a morning walk every morning around 8am, we have a super large yard he plays in with me during the day and then I walk him in the evening after dinner when possible. I understand that pups and dogs pent up energy when not exercised and because I know this he gets A LOT of exercise, it's the only way he won't act obnoxious. He does really well if we have to leave for a few hours and really well when we come home, he doesn't jump or bark. But when company comes over its a totally different story-I dread company. I don't know if he's consciously fighting for my attention or if he's really excited to see people-he only gets crazy when males come over? Coincidence maybe?

I have been trying to do as much training as I can before his classes start but I don't think it's sinking in because I don't think he thinks I am Alpha, ya know? Now when daddy is home he is on his best behavior and only "talks back" to dad occassionally-usually when he wants to dance or shake a paw. How can I gain my control back? It is really frustrating not being the Alpha or more importantly when your dog thinks he's Alpha-I think thats the main problem but would love to hear what you think. Am I a bad pet owner?

[Bronx'sBower]

I wanted to report her but the manager was agreeing with her. The manager said she will only use a shock collar and her dogs "are just fine"...

I said the same thing Aurie (sp? sorry i forget spellings easily)...why are they selling products they don't stand by? Not just the muzzle but the flea powder too. I think I will write the company rather than deal with the manager or employee again...

[i_rescue]

I've never heard of that kind of muzzle, but if your veteranarian says it's better than a shock collar, then you should have got it and just ignored the girl at the register. It pissed me off just reading about it. I can feel your madness! :mad:

[Aurie]

Here is a great place to start letting Bower remember he is the dog and you are the person: http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/ask-us/articles/you-are-grounded.html

After you have remaster the above, you can move on to here: http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/ask-us/articles/solving-behavior-problems.html

Sarah and Brian are fantastic trainers with a great series of books. I highly recommend them. Good luck!

[Ginger's Mom]

I've never heard of that kind of muzzle, but if your veteranarian says it's better than a shock collar, then you should have got it and just ignored the girl at the register. It pissed me off just reading about it. I can feel your madness! :mad:
I understand what you mean by she should have bought it anyway, but I would just disagree a little by saying I can understand her not buying it there. That store would not have gotten one penny of my money, and I probably would have been very pointed about leaving all of the items I had on their counter and walking away without taking my wallet out.

[sabies]

You are not a bad dog mom! You have recognized an issue with your dog and have taken steps to deal with it by discussing the situation with a vet and enrolling in classes.

Is there another pet store near you? I would not ever go there again if it's possible to avoid it. How rude of them. Why sell a product they disapprove of? The employee and the manager should be reported but if that's how they want to run their business then they will lose business.

I think you already know the problem - you need to learn how to be alpha. The obedience classes should help. Maybe you can find some good books? Sorry I do not have specific advice on this issue - my dog is the most pathetically submissive creature. I still had to learn to be a little bit of an alpha to get her to eat - submissive dogs expect someone to be alpha. I got good advice in the dog behavior section - feed her after I eat, do not look at her, leave the food for a set time period. Dogs interpret things very different from humans so your behavior without you knowing it says a lot. An expert can help you send the right message.

[Alysser]

Definatley report this nut case! First off, she was telling owners to let their dogs get infested with fleas?? What a idiot! How stupid is this women?! :mad:

You're NOT a bad pet owner! Do not listen to a word she says and I would not be the least bit embarrased by her. Shock collars, IMO, are very cruel! What's the point of shocking a dog until it stops? I highly doubt humans would liked to be shocked when the make mistakes. Muzzles are way more humane, and if your vetrinarian suggests this over the stupid shock collar then I say go for it, and do NOT listen to a word this idiot says! :mad: Report her immediatly and good luck.

[Bronx'sBower]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and understanding...I am glad to know I am not as bad as the girl (who by the way didn't even look like she was out of high school) suggested. Someone pointed out maybe I could read some books...I have read quite a few mostly by Barbara Woodhouse but a more recent book is called "The Latchkey Dog". The Woodhouse books are a little out dated and I don't even know if some of the methods she talked about are used any longer. As for the last book I mentioned, it was a great book. It was like a guide, the most important part I remembered was that dogs bark for a reason not just to bark-usually (common sense really) but after we have exhausted all remedies he continues to bark. It isn't all the time but mostly when he gets riled up. It taught me and DH how to be the Alphas but it's almost like Bower chose who he thought Alpha should be, daddy. I am going to look at the links posted above and see if they can help me any. It makes no sense to me that when I worked and he went with me to work, he knew I was in charge but ever since I stopped working and staying home with him, he acts like this. Again it isn't all the time....Thanks again for all your support....and in regards to the reporting-I am definately contacting the company itself, it isn't like it's not a well known store (I know its michigan wide, not sure about nationwide), it just happens to be the only pet store in our city.

Also I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion on the best ways to gain control, some don't like shock collars and some do....to each his own I think but for someone to tell me I am "an inhumane person" is absurd. Maybe a shock collar is the best idea, for some, I just don't know if it would help my situation or make it worse.

[RedyreRotties]

You want to be very careful with any muzzle that restricts the opening of the mouth. The danger of heatstroke is very real.

And yes, you are paying now for not going to puppy class early. Better late than never.

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.

this is one of my all time favorite links about how to be the pack leader for your dog.

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

Dogs do not think like people, and you cannot raise a dog as you would a child. You are likely sending this dog a lot of mixed messages he can't figure out.

[Bronx'sBower]

I just got done reading the My Smart Puppy articles and all I can say is WOW! They covered just about everything! I have learned a few new ideas but for the most part Bower obeys commands. He understands sit but now*the lightbulb flashed*I think I may ask the few people he jumps on to grab a treat before they approach,then tell him to sit and give him the treat when he obeys. This way it will hopefully teach him to sit when company arrives instead of jumping all over them. I could work with him on this but the only problem is there are only like 3 people he jumps on so I will have to practice only when they are here.
Bower is an incredibly smart dog, sometimes a little too smart for his own good :), but sometimes I think we are both misguided. I am going to start taking the steps now to remaster the Alpha status....it just stinks because he really isn't a bad dog, just has his moments. But by me saying that I am basically becoming an enabler...

[Bronx'sBower]

I don't know if I would ever get him "de-barked" because 98% of the time he is barking he has a reason; it's just when we start playing or company comes over and he gets excited, thats when he acts up the most. In someways I enjoy his whining...hard to understand I am sure but he does this whine that sort of sounds like E.T. and I find it amuzing. Plus through his whines I can guess what it is he wants, he makes all sorts of noises! When the vet said he was a vocal dog, he wasn't joking. But he also wasn't joking when he said he sounds and acts like an 8 day wound up clock...
I just mostly need to gain leadership, I think I have now come to the conclusion that instead of really stepping in and taking control I have not only possibly made the situation worse but I also took the easy way out.

PS-I forgot to mention that he has been neutered-it was about 3 weeks ago. I thought males settled down afterward? Not him! He was running around crazy last week, running from room to room and almost jumped through the window, he actually jumped on the ledge like he was going to sit but he forgot the ledge is only 4 inches wide-basically half the size of his butt-he quickly fell off and settled down because I put him in his crate....I was amazed he acted that crazy, he never had before and never has since.

[K9karen]

:mad: :mad: Geez, everyone's a expert and critic.

Regardless of right, wrong, maybe, whatever, her job is to cashier. Period. You have to email or call the company and complain. When I worked a second job as a sales clerk in a local major department store, a fellow employee got canned for criticizing a customer's taste in clothes. You're the consumer, you basically pay their salary so complain. Don't let those nitwits affect you. You do what's best for you and your situation.

[bckrazy]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it.

D: ugh. I hope I read that wrong! I know you've given great advice, Redyre, but that is seriously a drastic measure, no? A painful and invasive surgery should be the last resort, as should muzzles, IMO.

Fozzie started developing barkiness, as is the tendancy of his breeds, and it just takes time & consistency to stop the behavior. He doesn't get any sort of reward for barking, and he completely stops with a stern "shhh", and he's only 5 months old. Puppy classes are great for socializing and practicing basic Obedience with distractions, but to be honest a l l of that info is available on the internet (http://4pawsu.com/articles.htmp has a lot of good pointers) and in books, so that shouldn't be to blame for behavioral issues. It sounds like the biggest factor in this is that the puppy does not respect the OP, and he's most likely using barking and jumping as means to demand attention from her. So, start at the root of the problem and work on that using NILIF & frequent training sessions at home. If it is difficult for you, find a good behaviorist, as you can get an appointment much sooner than September for a pretty affordable price, just to get one-on-one advice.

[dukedogsmom]

If it's a big chain of stores, you can get good results here:
www.planetfeedback.com
It's a great place to make sure the proper people see what's happening with their businesses. I've had good results and I've written more positive than negative letters.

I would have been fuming, were I you and would have talked to the manager right away. And I surely don't know how a shock collar is more humane.

[buttercup132]

First off I would rather take advice from my veterinarian than a sales clerk at a pet store! BUT not many vets know THAT much...in some ways I know more then they do and I know that from past experience...and I was a pet store clerk..I know that where I worked they educated us on what we were doing we had to read a huge binder of info on every section in the store and what it dose for the animal and why.



or shocking the sh*t out of them more humane That wont happen unless the dog ignores the shock, wich most dont.


which doesn't cover the whole snout-it is the thickness of a leash, well it looks like a leash for around the mouth) If it looks liike that then it was probly a Halti wich isnt a muzzle its a training device to stop dogs from pullling...
a common misconception


I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it.
:eek: :mad: Why on earth would you do that. It would be easier AND cheaper to get them trained by a pro.. debark your dog wth!?!?!


Why not try spraying him with a water bottle?
By getting up your teaching him that he is winnning. You are rewarding him. Hes going to think "I'm barking , oh look shes getting up to tell me I'm good by petting me or tending to me"
Ignoring him all the time would be your best bet then squirt him a few times

The flea thing well...shes dumb for saying that
why make the dog even more uncomfortable?
The stuff on the dog dosent work right away it works within a month or a few month time...stupid girl:rolleyes:

I agree they shouldnt be selling products they dissagree with and if they are then keep their mouts shut. Oh well its their loss no money for them!
I think if they are going to be like that with alot of people they will looose buisness fast.;)

[Bronx'sBower]

I agree with everyone and I thank you for your input. I realize I need to work with Bower ALOT more but I know I can do it, I just don't have much experience as our first pup died when he was 6 months, he was very obedient but he didn't live long enough to hit his "teen" years.
I did email the company, I wasn't rude but I definately made them know how she made me feel. You know it's pretty bad when a stranger makes you think twice on how good of a mom you are...I love my Bower and would never do anything to hurt him.
So last night and today we have been practicing "come" and he is getting much better. He has always had a problem with this, he acts like he doesn't hear us calling him. So I took his fav treat and let him sniff and lick it then walked back a couple small steps and said "come" and he did but not before ignoring me for a couple minutes. I just had to be patient and keep calling him, he eventually came and got the treat and now this morning everytime I tell him come he does.....I know I sound like an idiot but we really fell off the wagon and for him to pick it up so easily (I know it isn't over yet) is wonderful. Bower does really good when we are walking, I started the "heel" command as soon as we got him; he walks with me great and when he sometimes stops to take a sniff I can say "heel" and he'll fall right back in line.
He also has the "sit" command mastered but he also likes to shake so now we are teaching him to only shake when we tell him to. We tried it a few times last night and today and he is really catching on fast. I know he is an extremely smart dog...I just think with my lack of experience I am not being as smart as I could or should be.
My boss told me when we started potty training him that we had to spend atleast 3 solid days devoted only to him and his training. It only took 2 days to have him trained to potty outside and he has never had an accident since. I think this is how I am going to have to go about teaching him...Please don't think I am ignorant...I'm just lacking experience but am quickly learning.

To those that agree with using a shock collar-I guess I just didn't know. My fiance' suggested we buy one but I thought it was just his easy way out of not training Bower. I don't think there is anything wrong with using a shock collar but I think I was more upset that she told me I was inhumane~to me personally I think muzzles, citronella and shock collars are to some degree inhumane but it also depends on what purpose they serve.

[critter crazy]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.



You are not serious!!!! Surgically debarking a dog, is well....Just wrong!!! How could you do that, and feel like a responsible dog owner???? that just seems like a lazy way out!! Dogs can be trained! There is absolutely no just reason for this to be done!!!!!

[buttercup132]

You are not serious!!!! Surgically debarking a dog, is well....Just wrong!!! How could you do that, and feel like a responsible dog owner???? that just seems like a lazy way out!! Dogs can be trained! There is absolutely no just reason for this to be done!!!!!
Exactly and dogs neeed to bark its what dogs do.
If you dont want to deal with a dog barking get a hampster or something that dosent make noise...

(That wasnt directed to you Bowser's mom)

[RedyreRotties]

I happen to disagree that debarking is cruel.

I think correcting a dog all the time for barking is worse than a brief non invasive procedure to eliminate the annoyance of barking. If barking is such an issue that a muzzle is being considered, then I would consider eliminating the barking all together.

The de barked dogs get NO less pleasure from barking. They just don't make the noise.

To the OP: Please read my posts, esp. the one about the recall.

If you say COME to your dog and he ignores you or stands there, that is what you have just taught him to do when he hears the word come.

You will get a better understanding of how to help your dog learn to come when called if you will read the recall post.

You might also gain some more understanding of how to shape behaviors from reading this website. One of my favorites. :D

http://www.clickerlessons.com/index.htm

To those who are flaming me for suggesting debarking, I'd appreciate it if you did not get personal. Dogs are not people, and they don't react to things as people do. Debarked dogs do not miss the bark. According to them they still have it.

;)

[CathyBogart]

BronxsBower, it sounds like you're keeping yourself informed and not just trying to take the "easy way out". The clerk at the store had no right to act that way towards you. Opinions can be stated without being rude or demeaning. It sounds like with consistent work (and maybe a training tool to help with the barking) he'll be the perfect pup.

As for the neuter, I was otld that it takes a few weeks for the hormones to catch on to the fact that there's nothing there anymore. My parents' dog Wilbur acted like he was unnertered until about 2 weeks after the surgery, when he finally started to settle down.

[Bronx'sBower]

Well it's been a great couple of days! Bower is beginning to know who is boss and thats great-but I have to remember to be the boss in ALL aspects of his life. Right now I am trying to master only a couple things at a time since we already fell off the wagon once. So the last couple days he has remastered "come" command but I am a little confused. He does really well in the back yard when I tell him come but I at some point would like to walk him without a leash (a long way away from that I know) but most importantly I would like him to be able to enjoy our front yard as much as he does the back, he just likes the neighbors too and I don't want him running over there. How do I train him not to leave the yard? With the same "come" command and treats?
As for his barking, he has calmed down a lot but most importantly he has learned he doesn't get any satisfaction in barking and that it doesn't do anything for him, except a trip to his crate every so often. Slowly he is catching on, and for that I am so excited.
I am also working on giving him "his job" before he can play or eat. When we play catch I make him sit before throwing the ball-sometimes he gets impatient but its going to take time. For daddy he will sit and wait and look at the ball, and only once it's thrown will he get up and get it. Now it's my turn to master this but he is such a smart dog that I know it will all work out.
Overall I know its going to take more time but if I knew it would be this easy (using that word loosely) I don't think I would have given up so easily. I think he is going to be a great dog and is going to do really well in obedience classes. The reason I am waiting ( I noticed someone said I should be able to get him in earlier) is because of the trainers-a few places I called acted like they had no time to talk to me or answer my questions and concerns. If they can't give me the attention and information I need prior to a class, what makes me think they can do it during the class? I found a good trainer, the only good trainer that I spoke with, and the only available classes don't start until September. I am not as desperate as I was a few days ago, we are beginning to see the light :)

[GreyhoundGirl]

Uhhh. I'm no real expert, but...

"When Bower barks I will let him out, check his food and water, play but sometimes none of these are what he wants."

He might just be doing it for attention. If you do those things when he barks, to him it will be bark + mommie = play time.

I too agree with NOT DEBARKING, what a cruel thing to do. Here they are ( in my town ) after everyone who crates their dog ( :rolleyes: :confused: . )When some people are having painfull, unnessesairy surgery done just to avoid training ! That's just wrong ! I had no idea that was still being done ! :mad:

I also agree with why people would sell products they don't approve of. Some people thing they know everything. ( like that person that started attacking me as to why my Boxer was so skinny :rolleyes: ) I also agree with avoiding this store, and telling all friends to avoid it too. ( my moms friend is boycotting Orange Julius. ( because they charged me full price when the sign said 1/2 price :mad: )

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Both my boys have the citronella collars and there is a distinct improvement. My advice would be to use the "quiet" command at the same time so you can dispense of the collars eventually

[RedyreRotties]

Some breeds bark a LOT.

Shelties
Samoyeds
Collies
Poodles
Siberians

The list goes on and on. Many if not MOST of the people who keep, train and show these breeds debark them.

IMO it is MUCH kinder to allow the dog the joy of using his voice, even if it's much softer than it used to be, rather than yelling at the dog, spraying in the face with water, using citronella or shock collars, etc etc etc

I don't understand how subjecting a dog to a lifetime of enforced silence combined with unpleasant corrections is less harsh than a couple days of discomfort and then a softer voice so everyone can be happy.

I view debarking the same way I do removal of dew claws, spay/neuter, tail docking, ear cropping, etc etc etc. To me, it gives the dog the freedom to bark joyfully whenever he wishes, without annoyance to the humans around him.

DISCLAIMER: The above is nothing more than my own personal opinion. Many may disagree, and if done without personal attack, feel free to do so. This opinion will not cause you to lose weight, stop smoking, or obey the speed limit. Follow all instructions carefully. Do not use while bathing or sleeping. All rights reserved. Your results and mileage may vary.

;)

[Pawsitive Thinking]

debark them.

Do people really do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My two do bark a lot but its down to me to let them know when they can or can't woof

[Aurie]

I know many people who have debarked their shelties. It is something that is very common on the show circuit. It sounds awful. But it is no more awful then the once feared pinch collars. Dogs stay happy because they can bark til their hearts content.

But the effects do vary, some will be reduced to a whisper, others it is a barely audible change. I have never needed to have this done with my dogs. I don't have enough dogs to make combined barking a problem nor have I had a dog that would bark all day everyday and never take a breath.

I do not think it is easy to find a vet who will preform the procedure unless you are in an area that has a call for this service. But I am not certain about this.

Surgery is never a first approach to solving something that can be done through training. However, some dogs were geneticallly created to bark. If someone just has to have that sheltie/collie etc and they live in an apartment and nothing else has worked, would you rather them debark the dog or take it to the shelter?

No not the first or even the second solution that any trainer would suggest. But it is a solution and a humane one. From what I have been told and how it was described to me, it is probably the least traumatic of any cosmetic type surgery on a dog.

[critter crazy]

I am sorry, but I totally disagree about the debarking of a dog!!! That is just as cruel as de-clawing a cat cause it scratches your furniture!! There are ways to train your dog, to not bark on command, and to de-bark a dog and say it dosent know it, is just rediculous!! that si like saying a dog has no feelings!!! Of course he will know, he has ears dont he???? sounds like a cheap and easy way out if you ask me! Totally rediculous! All of our dogs, are taught the speak command, then taught the quiet comand! once you teach them to speak, it is ver easy to teach them to be quiet! I would never De-bark my dog, that is just cruel and inhumane! Would you put a diaper on a dog, cause it pees in the house? or would you rather potty train the dog? Everything can be fixed with the proper training!!!

[sparks19]

The people that are bashing debarking.... do you know the facts about debarking? Do you know anyone that has had it done?

I don't think it is cruel.

Whenever teddy barks in the house it hurts his ears. So do you think he would prefer to have a quieter bark? or this one that makes him shake his head everytime he barks because it rings through the house (you would think he would get a clue but he doesn't)

i don't think anyone is suggesting it as the be all and end all of remedies but it doesn't hurt to know about it.

[RedyreRotties]

I am sorry, but I totally disagree about the debarking of a dog!!! That is just as cruel as de-clawing a cat cause it scratches your furniture!! There are ways to train your dog, to not bark on command, and to de-bark a dog and say it dosent know it, is just rediculous!! that si like saying a dog has no feelings!!! Of course he will know, he has ears dont he???? sounds like a cheap and easy way out if you ask me! Totally rediculous! All of our dogs, are taught the speak command, then taught the quiet comand! once you teach them to speak, it is ver easy to teach them to be quiet! I would never De-bark my dog, that is just cruel and inhumane! Would you put a diaper on a dog, cause it pees in the house? or would you rather potty train the dog? Everything can be fixed with the proper training!!!

I'm curious how many de barked dogs you have lived around?

No, everything can NOT be fixed with proper training. Some breed bark a lot. Ask the owners of Shelties, Dachshunds, Samoyeds, Siberians, Collies, Poodles, Papillons, etc about barking.

I stated it is my PERSONAL OPINION. I do not appreciate your insinuation that I am stupid, cruel or insensitive. I am none of those. I have likely been showing and training dogs longer than you have been alive.

Now, I kindly asked that those who disagree with debarking refrain from flaming and making things personal, but I've been around on these bulletin board places for quite some time, and if you want to pick a fight with me, you can get one.

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/images/smilies/woot.gif

[zoomer]

I would report that nut head! Geesh I can just feel your flaming madness! :mad: I totally agree with Maltese_Love.
Stupid woman :rolleyes: :mad:

[critter crazy]

I'm curious how many de barked dogs you have lived around?

No, everything can NOT be fixed with proper training. Some breed bark a lot. Ask the owners of Shelties, Dachshunds, Samoyeds, Siberians, Collies, Poodles, Papillons, etc about barking.

I stated it is my PERSONAL OPINION. I do not appreciate your insinuation that I am stupid, cruel or insensitive. I am none of those. I have likely been showing and training dogs longer than you have been alive.

Now, I kindly asked that those who disagree with debarking refrain from flaming and making things personal, but I've been around on these bulletin board places for quite some time, and if you want to pick a fight with me, you can get one.

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/images/smilies/woot.gif

Lets see the words "I disagree" are My Opinion, which I am allowed to Post! This is a free contry! I am entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours! I never once called you stupid, i just dissagree with the whole thing! end of Story!!

And as far as you training longer than i have been alive, probably true, but it dosent make you right! It just means that you do things your way and i do things my way!

I am done posting on this thread!!

[GreyhoundGirl]

Do people really do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My two do bark a lot but its down to me to let them know when they can or can't woof

I thought de-barking was a medeval sorta thing. I didn't know it was still done. I thought the SPCA would have banned it. ( if I had the power, I would. )

JMO- as usual

[Bronx'sBower]

Firstly I wanted to say thanks for all your support but I also wanted to say that my intentions on this post were NOT to cause or start an argument. I feel everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I don't agree with bashing each other for those opinions. I have been given a lot of help through this post and for that I thank ALL of you, it has only been a few days but already I can see the difference. I understand some may think that by him barking to say he wants to play or wants to go potty may be giving him mixed signals but I also feel that there is a difference between his demand barking and his I gotta pee bark. I don't keep him on a potty schedule, if he has to go he has to go and I am glad he can tell me when he does. But there is a big difference, as I said before, between the barks. I know some will disagree with me but you also have to remember it's going to take time. The funny thing is, now he knows demand barking isn't getting him anywhere so he doesn't really bark about anything. When he does start demand barking I tell him "NO" sternly and if it doesn't work I put him in his crate. If I have to crate him 50 times a day I will because it's working. Patience is the key and being a nanny I have a lot....thankfully :) Thanks again for all your wonderful insight and useful tips...

[lizbud]

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.








I view debarking the same way I do removal of dew claws, spay/neuter, tail docking, ear cropping, etc etc etc. To me, it gives the dog the freedom to bark joyfully whenever he wishes, without annoyance to the humans around him.



I can't believe you are being serious about this. :rolleyes: Someone just
comes from out of the blue & says they are a dog trainer & what they say
is true. Who the heck are you anyway?

I don't know any legitimate Dog Trainer who has the time to fritter away
their hours posting on a Pet site.

[Bronx'sBower]

As I am the one that began this thread I have tried very hard to ignore everyones bashing...it's getting very hard when people keep beating a dead horse (so to speak)...we all understand Red has her beliefs and reasons but that doesn't make her less of a person. Us PTers need to respect other peoples opinions-not ridicule for them, because all in all it isn't our place to pass the judgement.

[animal_rescue]

I looked up The Husher's website and it permits panting, drinking, eating. So I think it just makes it hard for them to bark, they will have to work more at it, and then they will just not want to do it anymore. It looks humane to me and I don't think that woman should have said anything to you.

http://www.husher.com/main.html

[K9soul]

I think if people want to debate a controversial issue a different thread should be started about it in the Doghouse. Since Bronx'sBower is not interested in debarking the debate is really not relevant in this thread and I too think it's a shame people have to get so personal and insulting.

Bronx'sBower, glad to hear that the barking problem is improving. It sounds like you're taking the right steps. The moral of this whole thing seems to be people can be kinder and more polite with their opinions rather than bashing and offensive such as this checkout lady did at the pet store. It makes a person feel defensive and like they are being judged personally. I have no doubt that every single person who has posted here loves their dogs and would never want to do something they felt was cruel.

[Bronx'sBower]

Thanks K9Soul-I dont think I could have said it better....

Also thanks to the previous writer for looking up "The Husher"....the only muzzle I would ever consider is this one as it does allow panting, drinking and eating. The only thing it does is weaken the muscles in the mouth so they don't want to bark as much...In a way however I am glad the clerk made me so angry that I didn't buy the muzzle-Bower really is doing much better but again as I have said it's going to take time....time and patience are a virtue :) Have a great weekend all you wonderful PTer's!!!

[Miss Z]

but I've been around on these bulletin board places for quite some time, and if you want to pick a fight with me, you can get one.

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/images/smilies/woot.gif

I have been following this thread just watching how it's been going, and RedyreRotties, I did have some respect for your opinion and input on de-barking, even though I don't agree with it myself. However, that last statement, as was the smiley, was very unnecessary and does nothing for your credibility. Whether you show dogs or not does not make you superknowledgable or right in every case.

Just my input, I had a neighbour with a barking dog. She used the ignoration/spraying water technique and within a fortnight things were much better. :)