Pit bulls??

[wolfsoul]

I have been bitten/attacked by SO many dogs the past couple of weeks, suddenly every dog wants to eat me. Now I get bitten nearly every day but I never classify them as attacks unless they draw blood or they are really scary, so this is ridiculous. So for those who think pitties are bad..

Last week a golden jumped on me with such a force that he pushed me off the drying bench. I was lucky I moved my head out of the way, he tried to bite me in the face. The day after a maltese tore up my hand. The day after a lab went after my face and actually got me. My chin was bruised for a couple of days and I had a puncture wound in my hand and one slice down my finger. A couple days ago a golden attacked my arm and my hand. My arm is still all bruised and I have two puncture wounds in my hand. I had to muzzle him the entire time I dired and groomed him because he kept going after me. Yesterday a lab went for my face (missed thank god, this thing is huge!), and a sheltie cocker mix got my hand.

But not one single pit bull, rottweiler, etc etc. In fact of all the large dogs I get bit or attacked by goldens most often.

[MajesticCollies]

Well we all have our thoughts on the subject. My Steele boy's brother had his lower jaw literaly ripped off his face from a charging pitbull while he was on his leash. Although they can be real sweet with humans (which I have experienced) I would NEVER trust them around my Collies. They are great to watch in the Conformation ring though.
Now you know why your customers don't learn to groom thier own dogs lol
Here's an attachment of my 10 yr old daughter learning to dry and groom for her first time with a Collie

[wolf_Q]

Ouch! I had a dog bite me in the face once as well, he didn't get me bad, but it sure scared me (it was a chow/aussie mix). I haven't actually been bitten (hard enough to bleed) in a very long time *knock on wood* I guess I have good reflexes heh, j/k. For the record the 3 worst bites I've had were by a persian cat and 2 miniature poodles.

My opinion is that every dog will bite, regardless of breed or size that is how they defend themselves. Some dogs just have a very high tolerance level and would only bite in extreme circumstances, and others will bite over anything sometimes without warning.

We did have one pit bull problem. It was a female that seemed pretty well cared for and she was very sweet with the groomer when she was bathed. But later she managed to get out of her cage and attack the first dog she saw without any sort of provocation at all (the dog she attacked was very sweet and mellow, didn't even fight back) and it took 3 people to beat the dog off, then the dog turned on them and bit one girl pretty bad.

I'm not in any means saying all pitties are like that, every other one I've met has been extremely sweet. I've also had a malamute and a german shepherd try to attack me (separate incidences); I guarantee if they were not wearing muzzles at the time I would have been in the hospital. I don't hold that against the entire breeds, that's ridiculous. There's a guy who comes in with several GSDs all rescue dogs that were abused and they are just the sweetest, most well behaved dogs.

I've never had a problem with golden retrievers that I can think of; they've all been very nice (sometimes rambunctious but not mean) dogs. The majority of dogs that try to bite at my work are small dogs. There are some really wonderful dogs of every breed, and some really mean ones too which in most cases is caused by the owner mistreating the dog or just lack of training.

[luvofallhorses]

My opinion is that every dog will bite, reguardless of breed or size that is how they defend themselves. Some dogs just have a very high tolerance level and would only bite in extreme circumstances, and others will bite over anything sometimes without warning.


I agree 100%.

[DrKym]

All I can say in this is A) I was guilty of an awful dog (toy poodle who after she turned 15 became very rotten to her groomer) and B) not guilty on the basis that my cocker is a doll at the groomers! I groomed years ago for almost 9 years and was bitten twice both by bassets :eek:

[Flatcoatluver]

Lets see at work I have been bitten by...
2 corgis
maltese
I can't even count how many labs and lab mixes I have been bitten by
a golden
2 PWD
lets see 3 different designer breeds
and not once have I been bitten by a "aggresive breed" and yes we get tons of "aggresive breeds in". Are best dogs at work are the "aggresive breeds"


BUT OUCH THOSE PIT BULL TAILS HURT REALLY BAD!! This lovely pitbull named Stella is a major tail wagger and her tail is like a wip!

[wolfsoul]

I guarantee if they were not wearing muzzles at the time I would have been in the hospital.
You have no idea how many times I've said that lol. One time I was grooming a GSD and I muzzled her after she tried to bite me. Started brushing, and two seconds later she turned around and I felt her teeth hit me between the mouth and nose. My face would have been gone.

I do have to say, worst breed to groom --- the Belgian. They SUCK to groom. Visa is awesome because she's been groomed forever, but the majority of them are never groomed at home. I haven't been bittenby one yet, but it's been close. They are the one breed that I really really watch while I'm doing anything to it.

[Jadapit]

Gosh Amy, that is to bad the pit bull did that. :( I think it all comes down to the owner if you own a pit you the owner should know if he/she is dog aggressive or not. I get so tired of stupid pit bull owners. :mad: That is why the breed had such a bad name.

I have never had any problems with Ebony and another dog but I would never leave her alone with another dog, it is up to ME to keep her and any other dog out of harms way.

I feel really bad for all of you that have had bad dealings with pit bulls because they really are an amazing breed its to bad some owners have to ruin that.

I wonder why people even tak a pittie to a groomer? There isnt much to groom on them. :p It must be to bathe them and clip their nails.

Woflsoul, I'm sorry for all the bites you have gotten that would suck. :(

Flatcoat, those pit tails are deadly weapons aren't they? ;)

[areias]

Agreed, I've only ever been bitten by a lab and a bichon, and most of the dogs that attempted to bite me were small dogs, pomeranians and schnauzers mostly that I can remember. The groomer I worked with once said she has been bitten 7 times, and every single time it was a Golden. She must have really bad luck with them, lol.

[Sevaede]

Oooouch! :( I am sorry, that's really crappy! :(

I am not a groomer but have been bitten before and it was by a dachshund. My sister was bitten by a friends Chow/GSD mix in the face.

[lute]

woah! be careful! :eek:

i've fortinatly never been bit. i've had to muzzle a couple dogs so i don't get bit though.

[DrKym]

This is in response to Jadapit (my second fave pittie owner) My daughter has been lurking and she asks 2 things from me. 1 to tell you that she is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad to see another responsible pittie owner and 2) to re iterate that we bred them to fight dogs, our job is to OH WAIT YOUSAID IT keep them from having an opportunity to react badly. Most pitties raised properly (according to Jesse) do not have an aggressive response, she has however said that any pittie in a stress situation may react out of character. I would like to think I had a hand in her equilibrium on dog matters, however I must say that if I didn't know her kids I may not feel so generous even though I owe her LIFE to a pit. (that story is in another thread and it was nearly 19 yrs ago now).

[K9soul]

Actually here is where I most often see any story anyone has ever experienced or heard of that is bad about goldens or labs, or hear most often that people dislike them :p. Here is the only place where if someone starts a "who loves goldens?" thread it gets filled up with bad stories about them, instead of positive comments. It's frustrated me more than once that people who hate seeing a breed slammed turn around and slam a breed. Not aimed at you Jordan, or anyone else, just saying in general (venting a bit!). Pit bulls aren't inherently bad because of their breed and neither are goldens or labs. I know one PTer posted in a thread once that they didn't cross to the other side of the street when they saw a pittie coming, but they did when they saw a golden coming. To me either way is sad, and breedism.

Unfortunately goldens and labs are so overbred and puppy-milled, and such common breeds, you're more likely to come across poorly bred and poorly trained and raised dogs. I just personally hate to see any breed targeted for negative comments that are directed at them as a breed instead of individual dogs. Dogs are dogs and they can all be very sweet or they can be nightmares, it all depends on the owners, how they are raised, if they are trained and get exercise and mental stimulation so that they don't get bored and frustrated, if they have a good pack structure, etc and so on.

Anyhow.. off my soapbox ;)

[Flatcoatluver]

Actually here is where I most often see any story anyone has ever experienced or heard of that is bad about goldens or labs, or hear most often that people dislike them :p. Here is the only place where if someone starts a golden thread it gets filled up with bad stories about them, instead of positive comments. It's frustrated me more than once that people who hate seeing a breed slammed turn around and slam a breed. Not aimed at you Jordan, or anyone else, just saying in general (venting a bit!). Pit bulls aren't inherently bad because of their breed and neither are goldens or labs. Unfortunately goldens and labs are so overbred and puppy-milled, and such common breeds, you're more likely to come across poorly bred and poorly trained and raised dogs. I just personally hate to see any breed targeted for negative comments that are directed at them as a breed instead of individual dogs. Dogs are dogs and they can all be very sweet or they can be nightmares, it all depends on the owners, how they are raised, if they are trained and get exercise and mental stimulation so that they don't get bored and frustrated, if they have a good pack structure, etc and so on.

Anyhow.. off my soapbox ;)
You are right. But I think Jorden(wolfsoul) made this thread to uneducated people that ANY breed can be aggresive. It isn't just the "aggesive breeds". I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else with my post.

[DrKym]

well said K9 however even the best breeders line breed (inbreed) so not all of it is attributed to puppymills. My cocker is sweet great on a grooming table does all her commands on a drop of the dime. cost hubby a fortune as she is show quality. She is also incredibly clingy we hire a sitter to go out, otherwise she chews her fur off literally. She adores kids is terrified of the door bell has stomach issues (hence the raw diet cleared that hurdle) is prone to unprovoked bouts of high pitched barking and "fits" she just sorta goes weird. We spayed her rather than even consider the show ring or breeding her. Paid a huge sum (nearly 1200 in breach of contract fees) and love her to death.

[K9soul]

I've been editing as I thought of more about what I wanted to say. I'm not offended, and I know the purpose wasn't to pick out another breed. It was more a mental cathartic episode on my part, goldens/labs are ALWAYS used as the "bad" example it seems like :p. I know the folks in this thread are farthest from blaming a breed rather than deed. If I sounded angry, I promise I didn't intend to :D

[K9soul]

well said K9 however even the best breeders line breed (inbreed) so not all of it is attributed to puppymills. My cocker is sweet great on a grooming table does all her commands on a drop of the dime. cost hubby a fortune as she is show quality. She is also incredibly clingy we hire a sitter to go out, otherwise she chews her fur off literally. She adores kids is terrified of the door bell has stomach issues (hence the raw diet cleared that hurdle) is prone to unprovoked bouts of high pitched barking and "fits" she just sorta goes weird. We spayed her rather than even consider the show ring or breeding her. Paid a huge sum (nearly 1200 in breach of contract fees) and love her to death.

Yeah you're right, then there are the dogs who are well loved but have individual issues.. Tash is not a stranger lover and I would NEVER drop her off at a groomer to have her nails done, I honestly don't know if she might try to bite if she was nervous enough. If the owners know their dogs have issues or are likely to bite they should be responsible about it. Unfortunately the world is filled with inconsiderate and irresponsible people. Fortunately there are some wonderfully considerate and responsible people to help make up for it.

I probably shouldn't post when I'm this tired. I'll end up coming across wrong, of course no offense or anger was intended in my first post :)

[wolfsoul]

Sorry about that Jess, I just meant to say that any breed can bite --- Goldens and labs are seen as such nice, family breeds it can be easy to pick on them in these topics. :o Nothing against the breeds -- I do like to think of the "ideal" as the breed as a whole -- in which case both labs and goldens are wonderful dogs. Come to think of it, pit bulls used to be the ideal family dog too. I won't be surprised if one day both breeds are seen as "pit bulls." It's frightening. I'm so happy to see more people being educated on good and bad breeding, and so many people becoming more interested in training -- maybe one day dog attacks won't be so common and people won't have to blame the breeds.

[K9soul]

No need to apologize at all. Actually I'm sorry, I'm feeling more and more like I came across as angry or offended :o. And you actually have a really good point there (and a scary one). At one time pitties really were viewed as great family dogs.. they were icons in a lot of ways. Petey from Little Rascals, the original RCA dog was a pitbull, etc.. Collies have been in the spotlight, dalmations, cocker spaniels.. labs/goldens seem so much in the spotlight now, and it's scary, because we have seen the results of that. You never know who will be the next target of prejudice and BSL because of how people are ruining these dogs.

[DrKym]

K9 and Wolf no offense taken. It just seems that ppl do not want to admit that some of their animals may have issues. All that does is hurt the breed. I would rather admit my dog isn't "perfect" than to live with the fact that someone was hurt because I was ignorant.

[K9soul]

Well talking about pitties got me in the mood to look at pictures.. and I came across this little guy. OMG just had to share :D

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/dog/display_photo.jsp?pic=/americanpitbullterrier/pics/rb_igsie.jpg

[wolf_Q]

I agree, I believe that any person who calls themselves a dog lover should NEVER support any BSL. Even if they happen to hate the breed that is the current target...it starts with pit bulls but it will just keep going. I've seen a ton of breed ban lists that include siberian huskies, which as they are my beloved breed it really hits close to home...

[DrKym]

Starts with Pits? Honey that list is awful it also includes Rotties Danes Bulldogs, Poodles, Cockers, Eskimo dogs. What is awful is that Huskies dont make the top 50 in bites
and Pits dont make the top 10
btw my cocker is listed as # 4

[wolf_Q]

Oh I know that there's many other breeds on breed ban lists but the main target in the media right now is pit bulls. Are you talking about a list of the number of bites for each breed? I haven't seen that but I've looked at many apartment and insurance listings that ban "dangerous" breeds and huskies are almost always on those. :rolleyes:

If we were to ban breeds in our grooming salon based on the number of bites and attempted bites the list would likely include shih tzus, poodles, cockers, schnauzers etc. not the typical "dangerous" breeds. If we did that we'd lose like most of our business, not to mention how absurd that would be. Like I said earlier, there's good and bad (usually the owners fault) dogs of every breed, its so stupid to ban certain ones.

[DrKym]

Totally agreed! btw your pic of your dog is amazing! Even my son wants to "just touch it" Glad your baby has you!

[wolf_Q]

Thanks! :D He's a tad spoiled. ;)

[DrKym]

With that face how can he not be? kisses Nemo and slips him a huge knuckle bone ::looks innocent::

[wolfsoul]

Belgians are on the lists too. I don't believe it's warranted for any breed to be BSLed, but I do think Belgians are dangerous and I'm not surprised they are a BSL target. If there were more of them I'm sure they'd be in the media as much as pitties.

[Jadapit]

This is in response to Jadapit (my second fave pittie owner) My daughter has been lurking and she asks 2 things from me. 1 to tell you that she is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad to see another responsible pittie owner

Thank you so much for all the nice comments you always say about me, it makes my day. :D Also, please tell your daughter thank you. Tell her I want to see pictures of her pitties. I bet they are beautiful!

[Glacier]

Starts with Pits? Honey that list is awful it also includes Rotties Danes Bulldogs, Poodles, Cockers, Eskimo dogs. What is awful is that Huskies dont make the top 50 in bites
and Pits dont make the top 10
btw my cocker is listed as # 4


Actually Huskies are in the top 10 for bites according to the last year the CDC collected such data(several years ago). The problem is that they don't define Husky as a Siberian Husky. Any dog with a curled tail and prick ears is listed as a "husky" on bite stats. If they were only looking at the Siberian, they would be much lower on the lists. Many insurance companies already have Siberians, Malamutes and all Northern breed mixes on their lists of banned dogs. They won't insure your home if you own one. There are several cities in the States and a few Canadian towns where BSL includes Siberians and Malamutes.

[critter crazy]

As far as I am concerned any dog can bite, no matter the breed. To label a whole breed based on a few instances is maddening. Any dog, can and will bite given the right circumstances!(well actually it would be the wrong circumstances) I hate it when people blame a whole breed becuase of stupidity.

[luvofallhorses]

I agree, I believe that any person who calls themselves a dog lover should NEVER support any BSL. Even if they happen to hate the breed that is the current target...it starts with pit bulls but it will just keep going. I've seen a ton of breed ban lists that include siberian huskies, which as they are my beloved breed it really hits close to home...


well said..
I couldnt agree with you more. :)

[Love That Collie]

Dr. Goodnow......I have to disagree, my insurance agent told me
the insurance industry rank Pit Bulls #1 on the dog list in the U.S. consisitently as uninsurable on homeowners in most states. You cannot even purchase a seperate insurance policy in this state no matter how much you might want to pay. And it is not solely the breed temperament that the industry looks at or its propensity to bite or not to bite as the case might be.
They say that in REPORTED cases of bites that the breed's power, the pressure of the bite, the tendancy for it not to let go and lock its jaws and
go "for the kill" and not just a warning nip or minor bite that most of the time the attacks are proven unprovoked and of a deadly nature. Just because say, Oh, a tiny dog breed has a propensity to bite (for instance) doesn't make it any better than a certain Pit Bull's propensity to bite but for the fact
that the little dog's bite probably won't kill an adult.

I used to be an insurance investigator for insurance agency attorney's for 13 years and this breeds "track record" is not good and that is a shame that
people, especially in the U.S. have ruined this breed that could contribute
so much to society yet by most people seen as an outcast. This will not be
reversed until breeders all over come together as a whole and try to do something about it. I don't know what that will be nor how it will be accomplished but hope that it happens.

And I'll only pass along one more bit of info and then I'll shut up
My uncle was a dog trainer for the Military for many years and he stated that
when he was there that they never used Pit Bulls because they were unstable
and no matter how hard the trainers (from all over the country) tried 9 times out of 10 they could not get the dog to be consistent in command even 25% of the time, they could not get them to turn off their "kill" mode. And these dogs came from breeders all over the country and this was many years ago and the breed isn't getting any better in most peoples eyes. Yes, any dog probably will bite given the right circumstances but some have the propensity to "turn" at any time for no reason.

[Jadapit]

Ugh!!! Love That Collie, a pit bull does NOT lock their jaw that is a myth. Their jaws are strong, they are muscle but they dont lock. I'm sorry but I dont believe some of what you are saying about the pit bulls. I own one, she listens to me VERY well. She does not attack, bite, or try to kill anyone. When people come to my house they are going to be licked to death NOT attacked....

*edit to add*

Please take a look at this link it will you show you the many good things pit bulls can do. From search and rescue to sniffing out drugs.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.php

[Love That Collie]

Jadapit......I didn't mean the "lock" as in they are in essense "stuck".
They have stong jaws and an incredible amount of pressure per square inch.
They do not let go IF they don't want to.
And I did not say that they attack 24 hours a day all day long I said they
have a propensity to be unstable and they don't get that reputation just
because a few of them have attacked and/or bitten.

Also, go and tell your insurance agent that you have a Pit Bull. If you live
in certain counties in Florida and in other states try telling the police that
you own one because in certain counties in certain states they are illegal
to own or have possession of. And I agree that this is a shame but as the
old adage says......"better to be safe than sorry" until something is done about it. Anyone can "target" any breed and yes every breed of dog has
bitten but this one has the lead track record in the U.S. for unprovoked attacks and multiple attacks. And yes, this breed can do things that can
help society but their record is unstable so why use them when many other
breeds can do the job without danger being a possibility in the forefront.
And re the website of positive pit bull press, yes they are in some service
and it is very rare, there are less than 1% working as opposed to other breeds. And most of THEM are probably on that website. Any breed enthusiast can throw up a website and cite certain dogs of the breed for this or that but statistics speak louder than words and it's not just because they
have a bad reputation, they have seemed to back up that rep with actions
consistently.

There are vets who will not treat a pit, there are groomers and doggie daycare businesses who will not sit for nor groom a pit because they cannot
buy liability insurance. My dogs own groomer is a pit bull owner and she is
not permitted to bring the dog on the property, not because its mean or
acts out or has bitten, its because it is a pit and there is liability risk in the breed.

And no, I have never been bitten by a pit bull and no, I PERSONALLY do not
know anyone who has. As a matter of fact I was bitten by an Old English
Sheepdog and got 4 stitches. Do I hold that against that breed, nope.

However as one Pit Bull owner's neighbor insured by one of the world's leading insurance companies gave in deposition testimony in 1999 said, and I quote, "Mr. ******* had that dog for 7 years, he played wonderfully with his and my children all those years, grew up with them since he was 9 weeks old, never had a bit of trouble with him, he never knew a stranger and he just up and ran across the yard that day and wanted to play with Mr. *******'s 9 year old daughter and my daughter who was 8 at the time, while they were playing Barbie's on a blanket. He jumped in the middle of the Barbie's and Mr. ******'s daughter just reached up and pushed him away putting her hand on his shoulder from her sitting position and he bit down on her wrist and my 8 year old daughter attempted to help her by attempting to
pull his daughter's arm from his mouth and screaming NO,NO,NO get off, he then turned and went straight for her face and was on top of her. I thought
I was having a nightmare, I couldn't believe what I was seeing I began to run across the yard towards them then Mr. ******'s 16 year old son who was outside at the same time I saw running toward the girls with a ball bat and he
hit the dog twice on the head hard with the bat and the dog dropped over,
stunned and got back up, wobbling and I couldn't believe it but he went for
my daughter again but Sean the 16 year old hit him again before he could get to her and the dog fell over. My daughter had 147 stitches in the left side
of her head and face and ear and is still in need of more plastic surgery. I still can't believe that this happened, I had had this dog in my home many times
and I never would have believed it. I thank God that he didn't kill her and I thank God for Sean being there to save her, he was closer to the scene than I was and I might not have gotten to her in time. The only question that keeps haunting me and Mr. ****** is why, why did he do it? Mr. ****** is as devasted about this whole thing as we are and he blames himself. I don't blame him because I never would, in a million years have thought the dog
would do this. This dog was always so well behaved and obedient, he even
played hide and go seek and tag with many children at one time and was so good.

This case was settled out of court of course but everyone knows how insurance companies are, there was no defense. The authorities even had
an autopsy done on the dog trying to ascertain whether or not there was some physical reason that the dog would do this........nothing was found.

This and HUNDREDS of other cases such as this was when this insurance company really began to investigate case by case reported dog bites from all states in the U.S.

Jadapit, I do sincerely hope that yours will always be how you say she is now, sweet and licks people to death and that you can always trust her but that's how the above dog was too.

[Jadapit]

I'm truly sorry that happened to your daughter. I cant even imagine seeing something like that happen, especially to your own daughter. I feel for the owner also, he must have felt terrible. After reading that, I understand more why you feel the way you do.

It is legal to have pit bulls where I live. I want you to know that I'm a very responsible pit bull owner. I do love the breed thats why I wrote what I did because I feel the need to stick up for them. There are thousands of pit bulls that will never attack or bite anyone in their life I truly believe that. Again, I'm sorry that happened to your daughter.

One more thing, there has to be insurance compaines that will insure you if you have a pit bull. I live in Colorado, they totally banned the pit bull (other breeds also) in Denver. They also banned them in Aurora but if you owned them before the ban you were allowed to keep them as long as you registered them and took out a hundered thousand dollar insurance policy on them. I know a pit can do a lot of damage if they bite, but really so can a lot of other "big" dogs. I think it would be such a shame if every State banned them they really dont deserve that. IMHO anyway..

[GreyhoundGirl]

Ouch... Maybe it's a full moon. I'll go check... :rolleyes:

[Love That Collie]

Jadapit...that didn't happen to MY daughter. Read it again and I
think you will see I was quoting an actual insurance case on deposition
from the man who saw his neighbors dog attack HIS daughter. I didn't know
the man personally, the insurance company was defending their insured, the
dog owner.

Yes, you were what the law calls "grandfathered" in when that law went into effect in Denver. And One Hundred Thousand Dollars is not enough insurance
to have it's probably the minimum that the law demands there possibly.
The owner of the dog in the deposition had Seventy Five Thousand insurance
at that time (in the 1990's) it wasn't enough, he had to sell his home in order
for him to pay for the little girl's medical bills and future surgeries which was
another part of the case. The insurance company would (of course) only pay
what amount their insured had at that time and that's what they are liable for. However, the homeowner (owner of the dog) had to come up with more than $125,000.00 himself over and above what the insurance paid, he had to
end up selling his home to get it.

There are insurance co's who will insure pit bull owners but not in all states
and the list of states is growing. I do realize that it is not the breeds fault and sometimes not the owners fault. It's just that the breed has been bred badly over many decades in this country and on the whole has been ruined and it will take twice as long to get it back to its breed standard and that's only with hard work, determination of ethical breeders AND yes, the law and that's terrible.

[Alysser]

Now, I hate to say it but Sassy isn't the friendliest of dogs. She WILL AND DOES bite when she feels she needs to, sometimes out of the blue. She has bitten me 6-7 times in my life(seperate incidents.) One, when I was five(when we got her.) I pulled her tail and she bit me. Nothing major, it didn't break even the skin. I'd say it was more of a nip. She bit me twice last year because I was taking pictures of her and I guess she didn't want it. Agian, nothing major. She bit me 4 times on the arm. Only one broke the skin but it didn't bleed. If there even was another accident, I don't remember. She bit a toddler twice because they were annoying her. They pulled her tail, she didn't even growl(they're brother and sister.). They slap her, and she snarls at them to get away. The boy slaps her agian and she bites him. Nothing happened except for it broke the skin. The girl was bitten without the skin being broken. Well, anyway I have also been bitten by a Jack Russel terrier, German Shepherd, a few poodles, and a shih tzu but nothing else. Yeah and they say pitbulls bite the most? :rolleyes: I think, generally, people are scared of pitbulls more because they are said to have stronger jawbones. Is this even true? I heard from a former friend, you would have to break an English bulldogs jaw to get it off, but I don't believe it.

Sorry, this stuff happened to you, Wolfsoul! I'm glad to hear it was nothing serious.

EDITED: Forgot to add, today I was attacked my friends Shih Tzu. It broke the skin and I have a bruise. There will definatly be a scar. I was trying to pick him up because my friend was doing something on the floor and she didn't want him on the floor, so told me to put him on the couch. He growled and bit me. Dogs just really hate me.... :(

I just want to add, Jadapit, you are truley the most responsible Pitbull owner I "know". Your girls were raised properly and inturn, turned out to be the most friendliest of pitties. :D They're all lovley.

[Jadapit]

Jadapit...that didn't happen to MY daughter.

Oop's my bad, sorry about that. I'm going to say one more thing then I will shut up. So many times its the owners that make pits the way they are. I believe any "big" dog shouldn't be left alone with little kids I know I would never leave my three alone with little kids. So many times there are two sides to the story when there is a pit attack you usually only hear the medias side they are known for getting the facts wrong most the time.

As you said its the breeders that are ruining the breed so in the end of things its the HUMANS fault not the dogs. What if all this BSL crap was happening to your collie? Would you sit by and let it happen or stand up for the breed? Someone has to stand up for the thousands of GOOD pit bulls and their owners.

[Love That Collie]

Jadapit, and it's truely sad that it has happened to the breed and all of it
isn't some of the owners of pit bulls fault, I think the fault lies at the feet
of the breeders. Even if you have had 5 generations of good,good pit bull
parents, the traits of the next generation back from those 5 generations can
rear its ugly head, that pair could have been bred to fight as is part of the problem with the breed. Gladly this is not a trait of a Collie and nooooo I am not saying that a Collie has never bitten, they have bitten, all breeds have bitten, but it would boggle your mind to know that there are so many full blown attacks by PB's in the U.S. every year and it's not getting much better.
The police reports, court filings and insurance claims confirm this. I do truely
feel sorry for this breed in particular.

I don't know if that primarily is the reason that PB's make the news for a bite
or if it's the severity of the attack and outcome that is the reason and I wouldn't trust the media as far as I can throw them which is why there is research involved.

I believe that NO dog should bite unless it or it's owner is in imminent danger whether the dog be large OR small it doesn't matter. A small dog just doesn't
have as much power, the power is part of the point. It's like someone trying
to defend themselves with a .25 caliber handgun against a person with a
heat seeking guided missile so to speak.

[wolfsoul]

The majority of supposed pit bull attacks are not actually done by pit bulls, but breeds that look similar. Most of the reports of the lady who had a face transplant said that a pit bull was the dog responsible -- however, it was her pet labrador retriever. Most surveys will tell you that the labrador retriever is the #1 biter in North America.

I hate it when people say that pit bulls are genetically predisposed to attack -- they have no more predispostion than any other breed. They are terriers. They were bred to bait bulls and kill rats. They were NOT bred to fight until later on. Fighting is not something you can breed. Unlike pit bulls, boxers WERE originally bred to fight, and look at them. They are younger than the pit bull and yet they seem to be fine. Pit bulls are terriers --- like all other terriers, they do have a tendency towards being dominant --- this is something that can be fixed with training. And, like all other terriers, they are bred to hold on. Pitties were bred to bait bulls --- if they let go of that bull, they are dead. They do not "lock" their jaws --- it is in their instinct, as with all other terriers, to hold on or die. Even a jack russell will hold on for dear life -- that rat could kill it. But pit bulls were also bred to be family dogs. They slept in the children's beds. And so any dog that showed any tendency towards aggression towards humans was culled. Nowadays of course, with backyard breeders and puppy mills, we do not always have this. But with good breeders, we do. It is not true that mixing five generations of good dogs can create an aggressive litter. A good breeder mixes temperments properly. A complete outcross is more unpredictable in temperment than a linebreeding, but the breeder would have done their research on similar outcrosses.

[IRescue452]

The breed I've been bitten by the most in my lifetime is the labrador (and lab mixes). I do not trust labradors at all and I absolutely hate taking them out at work. I wish more people were ready to restrict the breeding and owning of labradors instead of pitties. Labs are overbred and owned by every Joe Schmo that shouldn't have a dog and they need to be restricted.

[K9soul]

I wish more people were ready to restrict the breeding and owning of labradors instead of pitties.

Wow, All I can say is I completely agree with Jordan in that I am against ANY BSL or blanket breed-based statements (bad or good). Turning something that is just wrong to another more "popular" breed doesn't make it right. Again, it has nothing to do with labs as a breed. It has to do with so many owning labs, and often people who run out and get a puppy mill dog and then don't train it right, raise it right, or exercise it enough until it becomes a problem. Start restricting labs, and they will turn to the next breed, and pretty soon you can replace your statement with "they should restrict _________ breed." I don't want to see ANY breed filling in that blank. People need to become educated, better dog owners, and some people don't have any business owning a dog period. Don't move from one form of breedism to another.. it will just perpetuate the problem :(. Ugh, I just tend to get really emotional on these topics. I should have the sense to stay away from them :p.

[luvofallhorses]

well said, Jess. I would never ever say I want this certain dog breed banned, ever! regardless if I had a bad expierience..or not. I blame the owner, not the dog. I go by the saying "punish the deed NOT the breed".. I, fortunately haven't had one dog attack me or any other animal for that matter. I just wish this BSL s*** would end, seriously! :( I am with you, Jess I do tend to get emotional on these topics, too..

[CagneyDog]

You know, it seems that a large chunk of people are against BSL when it's in regards to Pit Bulls, but they are more supportive, or more understanding of it when it comes to Labs, Goldens, and other breeds. This really, really bugs me. First of all, the statistics are never accurate, they're more Labs in the world therefore, naturally statistics would show that there is more dog attacks coming from them. Of course they're overbred and such, but you do need to keep the population stuff in mind.

[K9soul]

You know, it seems that a large chunk of people are against BSL when it's in regards to Pit Bulls, but they are more supportive, or more understanding of it when it comes to Labs, Goldens, and other breeds. This really, really bugs me. First of all, the statistics are never accurate, they're more Labs in the world therefore, naturally statistics would show that there is more dog attacks coming from them. Of course they're overbred and such, but you do need to keep the population stuff in mind.

Exactly Lindsey. Labs are currently the #1 most popular breed in the U.S. (at least last time I checked, with goldens close behind). This means:

* A huge market for puppymills and BYBs.
* LOTS of uneducated people in regards to a dog's needs, much less doing breed-specific research, because labs are so popular and supposed to be "perfect."

Those two things combined are recipes for disaster. So yes of course labs will be high on the bite list, high on the surrender list to shelters, high on the list of dogs with behavioral problems, health problems, and so on.

I strongly believe no breed is predisposed towards behavioral problems simply because of its breed alone. The more popular a breed is, the more that breed is likely to be subjected to abuse and poor conditions.

Breeds like rotties and pits are often more abused breeds because of the types of people that are attracted to them. Labs and goldens on the other hand attract a lot of people getting a dog "for the kids" which can be just as bad in some ways.

Anyway.. enough rambling by me for now!

[Suki Wingy]

And I agree that this is a shame but as the
old adage says......"better to be safe than sorry" until something is done about it.
What about the millions of wonderfully adjusted family pets? The ones who save people? Whatever happened to Innocent until proven guilty?

And also, whatever breeds are on the top 5 breeds list tend to be more "dangerous" because of people buying them on looks, not socializing them, and buying them from puppymills and unhealthy dogs.

[DrKym]

Well as on old woman I can name off several other breeds ruined for the same reson Popularity
St Bernards (early 70s and again Beethoven)
Cocker Spaniels
Dobermans (Magnum PI)
Toy Poodles (too cute for their own good)
Chihuaha (see above)
GSD ( hearth home and kid dog )
Jack Russells (Frasier)
Staffies (drug trade)
Greyhounds (yes racing is an issue but the huge outcry produced huge amounts BYB)
Maltese (see poodle)
Shiz-zu (see poodle)
The dogs aren't to blame, We are. I wont even go into the husky phenomenon due to the movie 8 below, People don't think they assume (yes I forgot collies thanks poor Lassie) that all dogs of that breed will be THAT dog. Sad but true.

[wolfsoul]

I'm glad that not many people want Belgians. The people that own Belgians are alo usually fully admittant of the breed's faults too, so that not every Joe Blow is going to go out and buy one. Belgians don't need BYBs, they are messed up coming from reputable breeders lol, and they certainly don't need to be popular. It's what I want to improve, and at the same time, I'm not just going to be giving these dogs to people who I don't trust to know what they are doing, because I don't want them to end up being in the media like pitties. If there were more of them, they would be. I think that of all the breeds with BSLs, the Belgian is the one that "deserves" it most. And it doesn't kill me to say it either, I know my breed is screwed up. Visa's breeder is considering switching from Belgians back to goldens.

[Suki Wingy]

I felt the most of it with my rescued unilateral fear biter DalmatiAn who happened to have the worst separation anxiety ever. I think she came from the 102 DamatiAns craze. I had people just come up to me at the park and state in a knowledgable voice, "These dogs get nippy around childern, they're really unstable." and then walk away! Maybe because I was at a park with her but for god's sake don't touch her without asking after you told me about my own dog!
Dals are now not even in the top 50, no one wants them anymore, thank GOD (even though that's just a saying to me you don't know how happy I am about that)

[DrKym]

LOL@Suki kind of similar to when people tell me I should retrain Goofy (cocker) as she piddles when frightened? because Lady (another Disney screw up) LOVED people. Goofy does too after she makes the first move but just reaching at her scared her to peeing (usually on my shoe) :rolleyes:

[king2005]

Here is my list of bites, attacks, chased (would have attacked if I didn't run), etc....

BC - 6 stitches.. No attack only a single bite. Dog was not PTS, no reason to.

Shar Pi (sp) - 2 got loose & tried to take on all of us at the youth club.. we all had to run inside & close the door.

Collie - Charged me while snarling & showing teeth! I ran like hell.. it was older so it couldn't catch up.

American Pit Bull Terrier - Bit my arm too hard & left huge bruses. It was a accident & when I yelled ouch, I swore the dog was crying he felt so bad.

2 Goldens - Dogs from hell they were. Nearly ripped both my legs off.. luckly they had both my shoes, but they kept thrashing, pulling & trying to go different ways & crossing eachother.. NOT FUN.. this is why I'm scared of them, yes I'll cross the street, because all I can think about are the 2 that attacked me. I have the right to be scared of them! But the BSL is still BS.

Goldens (too many to count & diff times) - All came charging while snarling & showing teeth.. All got a foot to the head & that scared them off.

Jack Russel (2 times same dog)- first he tried to take me on & became a foot ball (I have a fear of charging & snarling dogs & will hurt if not kill them).. second time he tried to attack the OLD wobbly dog I was walking, once again he became a football & he lucky he didn't come back, I was angry & in defence mode to have kill it.

Labs (too many to count) - just bites, nothing major, just hurt like hell.

2 GSD - Charged from behind a house, snarling.. I nearly wet myself.. I scooped up the 60p dog I was walking, she was frozen solid in fear & I ran!!!!

Newfy - Bit my hand a couple times when I went to pet him. I saw this dog all the time & always patted him. Turns out the owners son moved back in & had beated poor boots, so he was scared I was going to hurt him so he bit me. Don't blame him really.


With all this I still don't hate any breed of dog.. Sure I "personally" fear Goldens & wont pet them (unless I have to), but there shouldn't be a BLS on them. The owners of the above just need a kick in the pants & banned from owning dogs.

Heres something about Pit Bulls.. A few weeks ago my landlady was attacked by her boyfriend here in the house. Cyrus (AST) was here & guess what he did?? just guess?? He put his tail between his legs & ran away. He hid by my apt doors in the basement all day (I wasn't home)...

Cyrus also goes to the dog park all the time. Hes wonderfull there & people just love him. Last time I went (it was my first really lol) we brought him into the agility section as no one was in there.. Once we went in there many people followed us. We didn't know them, but they wanted to know more about Cyrus, cause he was a pit bull & was having a blast. They were also very upset that Cyrus had to try to play fetch with a Muzzle on.. stupid BSL laws! More people came in just to watch Cyrus go over the HUGE wall (A shaped).. I would toss the ball over it & He would FLY over it!! It was awesome to watch & even funnier when he ran to the top & was looking down at everyone lol silly boy...

[Love That Collie]

Dear young Wolfsoul you are wrong fighting IS something that can be bred IF the particular pair have that tendency. And yes, Pits are terriers with the strength that unlike a Jack Russell does not possess so with the tendency to hang on for dear life just like you said, "if they let go of that bull they are dead". That's what THEY were bred for and they are, the majority, in the wrong hands now and this is being perpetuated by all the wrong people.

And I did not say that "mixing" 5 generations of good can make an aggressive litter. And yes, you most certainly CAN breed aggressiveness, that's why ethical breeders in any breed will not breed a certain dog to another.

The fear and outlawing of this breed did not just come out of thin air for no apparent reason and one does not have to solely depend on "statistics". The culmination of police reports, hospital records, court filings and insurance claims bear this out and those are not stats they are in black and white and sometimes with color pictures. Why on earth does anyone think this breed is on the vicious dog list? It's sure as heck not because society just picked them out of thin air for no reason. And until society helps clean up this breed and bring up to standard it will not change, the laws will only get harsher for all who love this breed and want the best for it. Nobody at the time said, "Gee, I think we should just start picking on the Pit Bull breed now we don't have anything better to do." It's not because they haven't earned the reputation through bad breeding and falling into the hands of the wrong people. It is a problem and the sooner people stop feeling sorry for them and saying "there, there, poor little misunderstood thing," and start doing something about it the better it will be.

And I never said that ALL were vicious........the majority of them were badly bred and do have that tendency. And the people on these forums who own or even knows someone who owns one are but a tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of owners in this country. No body singled out this breed arbitrarily.

[king2005]

And I never said that ALL were vicious........the majority of them were badly bred and do have that tendency. And the people on these forums who own or even knows someone who owns one are but a tiny, tiny, tiny, percentage of owners in this country. No body singled out this breed arbitrarily.

Its not "most" pit Bulls that are aggressive it is only a FEW that are aggressive! Its because of the amount of damage 1 pit bull can do is what makes it into the media & spun out of control.

Does anyone remember the pomeranian (sp) that attacked & killed a baby?

[DrKym]

THE STATISTICS - FATAL DOG ATTACKS IN THE U.S. FROM 1965 - 2001 *

The study covers 431 documented human fatalities from a dog attack.

Location of Attack
25% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by chained dogs
25% resulted from dogs loose in their yard
23% occurred inside the home
17% resulted from attacks by dogs roaming off their property
10% involved leashed dogs or miscellaneous circumstances

Number of Dogs
68% of all fatal attacks were inflicted by a single dog
32% was the result of a multiple dog attack

Victim Profile
79% of all fatal attacks were on children under the age of 12
12% of the victims were the elderly, aged 65 - 94
9% of the victims were 13 - 64 years old

The age group with the highest number of fatalities were children under the age of 1 year old; accounting for 19% of the deaths due to dog attack. Over 95% of these fatalities occurred when an infant was left unsupervised with a dog(s).

The age group with the second-highest number of fatalities were 2-year-olds; accounting for 11% of the fatalities due to dog attack. Over 87% of these fatalities occurred when the 2-year-old child was left unsupervised with a dog(s) or the child wandered off to the location of the dog(s).

Boys aged 1 - 12 years old were 2.5 times more likely to be the victim of a fatal dog attack than girls of the same age.

Breeds Involved
Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).

Reproductive Status of Dogs
Overwhelmingly, the dogs involved in fatal dog attacks were unaltered males.
From 2000-2001 there were 41 fatal dog attacks. Of these, 28 were attacks by a single dog and 13 fatalities were caused by multiple dogs.

Of the 28 single dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000-2001;
26 were males and 2 were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were found to be intact (the reproductive status of the remaining 5 males dogs could not be determined).

States with the Most Fatalities - 1965-2001
California, 47; Texas, 32; Alaska, 26; Florida, 22; New York, 19; Michigan, 18; Illinois, 18; North Carolina, 17; Georgia, 16.

While at times informative, statistics on fatal dog attacks can also be misleading. For example, a number of cases were a Pit Bull, Rottweiler or GSD were counted as causing a human fatality were in reality the direct result of gross human negligence or criminal intent (i.e. discarding a newborn in the yard where the dogs were kept, or cases of extremely emaciated animals, or cases were the dog was ordered or encouraged to attack the victim).

This study was conducted not to determine which breeds of dogs caused fatalities, but rather to examine the circumstances and events that precipitated an attack. Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.

The preceding information and statistics are excerpts from the book:

* "FATAL DOG ATTACKS: The Stories Behind the Statistics", by Karen Delise


The last paragraph is rather important.

[wolfsoul]

Dear young Wolfsoul you are wrong fighting IS something that can be bred IF the particular pair have that tendency.
You will not breed fighters, you will breed dogs with a tendency towards aggression, and that can be helped with training. Aggression comes in many forms and you can not breed one specific kind --- there is dog aggression, people aggression, food aggression, etc. The only one you can really pass down is fear aggression because that is a whole other issue (shyness) altogether. But just because two dogs fight does not mean that they will breed fighters. You can breed a tendency towards aggression, yes, but fighting pit bulls fight because of the way they are brought up in an environment. At a young age they will push the puppies together, bashing their bodies together until they learn that other dogs mean pain. They will feed them one small portion of food so that the entire litter learns that other puppies are rivals. Then they are taken away from other dogs altogether at a very young age so that they lack socialisation. Most of them are starved, beaten, lack health care, and do not live past a certain age. Those who try to buy random dogs for fighting are not experienced enough in the "sport" to know that fighting is not just something that any dog can do. Genetics are not enough -- it is instilled in the dog since birth. Yes, a tendency towards aggression can be bred, but fighting is environmental.

[king2005]

You will not breed fighters, you will breed dogs with a tendency towards aggression, and that can be helped with training. Aggression comes in many forms and you can not breed one specific kind --- there is dog aggression, people aggression, food aggression, etc. The only one you can really pass down is fear aggression because that is a whole other issue (shyness) altogether. But just because two dogs fight does not mean that they will breed fighters. You can breed a tendency towards aggression, yes, but fighting pit bulls fight because of the way they are brought up in an environment. At a young age they will push the puppies together, bashing their bodies together until they learn that other dogs mean pain. They will feed them one small portion of food so that the entire litter learns that other puppies are rivals. Then they are taken away from other dogs altogether at a very young age so that they lack socialisation. Most of them are starved, beaten, lack health care, and do not live past a certain age. Those who try to buy random dogs for fighting are not experienced enough in the "sport" to know that fighting is not just something that any dog can do. Genetics are not enough -- it is instilled in the dog since birth. Yes, a tendency towards aggression can be bred, but fighting is environmental.

*claps hands*

[DrKym]

10 Most Common Biters:
This list has some surprises. Allred says that in nature, dogs one through seven can be friendly, but they are intolerant and snap when handled roughly, startled, or pushed around. German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Pit Bulls are actually much less inclined to bite, but their powerful bites lead to great injuries and are reported more often.


Chow Chow
Shih Tzu
Lhaso Apso
Toy Terrier
Dachshund
Maltese
Cocker Spaniel
German Shepherd
Rottweiler
Pit Bull


10 Most Intelligent Breeds:


Border Collie
Poodle
German Shepherd
Doberman Pinscher
Golden Retriever
Shetland Sheepdog
Labrador Retriever
Papillion
Rottweiller
Australian Cattle Dog

[cocker_luva]

I have been bitten/attacked by SO many dogs the past couple of weeks, suddenly every dog wants to eat me. Now I get bitten nearly every day but I never classify them as attacks unless they draw blood or they are really scary, so this is ridiculous. So for those who think pitties are bad..

Last week a golden jumped on me with such a force that he pushed me off the drying bench. I was lucky I moved my head out of the way, he tried to bite me in the face. The day after a maltese tore up my hand. The day after a lab went after my face and actually got me. My chin was bruised for a couple of days and I had a puncture wound in my hand and one slice down my finger. A couple days ago a golden attacked my arm and my hand. My arm is still all bruised and I have two puncture wounds in my hand. I had to muzzle him the entire time I dired and groomed him because he kept going after me. Yesterday a lab went for my face (missed thank god, this thing is huge!), and a sheltie cocker mix got my hand.

But not one single pit bull, rottweiler, etc etc. In fact of all the large dogs I get bit or attacked by goldens most often.


I completely agree! i have the same problem at my groomin shop. I get attacked/bitten by more goldens and labs then any other dog. And people wonder why i dislike and wont even go near one unless i HAVE to!!!

[K9soul]

Can we just stop breed-specific bashing altogether? No one would tolerate someone talking about disliking and not going near a dog because it is a pit or a rottie, but no one has a problem with people making statements like that about goldens/labs or other breeds. I'm very saddened and disturbed by some of what I'm reading here.

[luvofallhorses]

Can we just stop breed-specific bashing altogether? No one would tolerate someone talking about disliking and not going near a dog because it is a pit or a rottie, but no one has a problem with people making statements like that about goldens/labs or other breeds. I'm very saddened and disturbed by some of what I'm reading here.

well said, Jess. So am I. :(

[Love That Collie]

Wolfsoul you are right.....fighting is not bred. I SHOULD have typed aggression-tendencies. Mea Culpa on the typo. But I don't want to get into envirornment vs. genetics we could go on forever on that one in both humans and animal world.

The bottom line is this (which I don't think anyone responded to, ehe?),
they have a very bad rep; laws have been enacted around the world on them, China and Europe and the U.S.. Once again, I guess it's all unwarranted just "picking" on the poor little Pit??? I really think not.
And again, once again..........anyone can cite that this or that breed bit (of course every breed has bitten) "I was bitten by this breed" or "I was bitten by that breed," yes dogs bite. But the laws came down from on "high" not because this breed bites, it is the damage that it inflicts when it does bite and how and why or why not it does bite..........the breed doesn't just bite, it clamps down and it, in most cases mauls. And if the people who love the breed don't start cleaning it up and quit making excuses for it the end result could be a total ban in the future.
Then all of the enthuiasts would be saying "woulda, shoulda, coulda."

Folks, we are not talking about "nipping" and "snapping" and a nick on your hand and intolerance we are talking about actual bodily harm of which its intentions lead to.

And Dr. Goodnow....you forgot to add that the most UNPROVOKED ATTACKS are Pits or mixes thereof. They have earned this reputation by actions and will continue to do so as long as the enthusiasts at large continue to make excuses and boohoo to the media and Animal Planet.

And K9 I do not dislike Pit Bulls, I hate what has been done to them but I can guarantee you if someone were to let out a few Pit Bulls in a city park anywhere, people would be jumping out of the way, grabbing up and sheltering their children and not getting out of their vehicles. But I doubt that if someone let out a Shitzu, a Maltese and a couple of Cocker Spaniels you would see the same reaction.

And just so I can join in..............Well, I have been bitten (actually torn) by a big ol' English Sheepdog.........am I afraid of them....noooooo.

And there are FAR more than 431 documented cases between 1965 and 2001
that's just the cases they "eenie, meenie, minie, mode" out of there. There were far more than that in the last 3-4 years.

And I'm not "bashing" anything, but call it what you want. A lot of people need to wake up before their beloved breed goes any farther down the tubes and do something for them IF they love the breed so much. The first step to solving problems is to admit that there is a problem and there is, except I see so many who hold themselves out as lovers of the breed do nothing and do not even admit that there IS a problem.
They do not have the reputation for nothing.

[animal_rescue]

Most "pit bull" attacks were not actually pit bulls or even pit bull mixes, Love That Collie! You need to look at the first and foremost and from what i've learned a dog NEVER attacks unprovoked there is always a reason!!

[Love That Collie]

Animal rescue in a nutshell, you are incorrect.
There isn't ALWAYS a reason that a dog bites or attacks.
There ARE unprovoked attacks, I'm sorry but you need to do
some more research. Or if you are citing a "reason" to be that a person simply walked by a house or business is a "reason" then well, that's called an
"excuse". That's ludicrous.

[DrKym]

Love that Collie,
Please understand I am not taking sides you were the only one that caught the point of my post. ALL dogs can and will bite. I agree totally that the amount of damage done by Pit is signifigantly greater than that of collie (used for demo purposes only). I do not hate nor love Pitties, they just aren't "my" breed. My daughter has 2 both well adjusted dogs both wonderful. I do believe they are the rule,not the exception, however that being said if either one decided to "turn" , my grandson and granddaughter wouldn't stand a chance in hell. However they are only here because 18 yrs ago a Pit at a dog show saved my daughter from another dog attacking. So for me I think they are in general ,and in the case of well bred dogs ,an amazing breed in the RIGHT hands and home. I also know that the breed is being destroyed and not only do the dogs suffer but the people on the wrong end of their attack.
I don't think they are alone in their destruction as money comes before all to some breeders of many breeds. BTW my only bad bite ever given that required stiches was from a pair of dogs that chased me after school 25 years ago .......................a Shepherd and a Cocker. We own both breeds,along with a Dobe. As I said all dogs can and will bite it is their defense. It is the dogs that are bred badly that become dangerous.

[dogzr#1]

Can we just stop breed-specific bashing altogether? No one would tolerate someone talking about disliking and not going near a dog because it is a pit or a rottie, but no one has a problem with people making statements like that about goldens/labs or other breeds. I'm very saddened and disturbed by some of what I'm reading here.

Agreed. It just saddens me to hear these people saying that Pitbulls are great dogs etc (which I agree with), and how they get upset when some people don't go near pits because of the bad rep. BSL has given them, but then they say that they are afraid of Goldens/Labs and won't go near one unless they absolutely have to. It's the same thing basically but instead they don't want to go near goldens/labs, most of the time great tempered dogs. I have been bitten by dogs before, even chased when I was little. My aunt's chihuahua mix bit me on my lip and probably could've done more damage had my cousins not been there to stop him. My mom and I were chased by two dobes when i was little. Only been bitten/chased one time, I have no fear of that particular breed. I can see however that after being bitten multiple times you might be a bit skiddish around that particular breed, but avoiding them altogether seems a little harsh. Just my opinion.

[DrKym]

In reference to Animal rescue: YES VIRGINIA THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS! meaning that yes there are unprovoked attacks. Most recent in a personal matter is a friend of mine that rescues Dobes and Fosters them she is 57 years old, has been doing this for over 30 years, so I think she has enough experience to speak. A rescue Dobe(4 yr old F) we were interested in that had been being fostered by her for almost 6 months, got along with dogs cats etc. had been around her family kids grands etc. walked over while 2 other dogs were playing fetch with her grandchild grabbed him by the head and began mauling him he required 122 stitches. There was NO provocation, she got up went out the dog door and attacked him. Period end of story and for Sparkle end of the line she was humanely PTS. Who knows what happened in her life? or what her thoughts were when it happened? the point is it did.

[K9soul]

I think there can be a difference between "provoked" and "triggered." I think it's more accurate to say there is always a trigger, but whether that is something that is within the dog and not identifiable, i.e. neurologic disorder perhaps, or just prey drive suddenly kicking in, is not always apparent to us. Provoked I think more along the lines of a person is doing something directly to the dog that causes it to react by attacking.

[DrKym]

Based on that definition I will agree. It not only makes sense but rings true if you understand my meaning?

[Love That Collie]

Dr. Goodnow.......re your posts #67 and 69.......well stated.
And how could I even forget, last year I was chased by an unrestrained lab and a GSD at the same time and I also owned a Doberman years ago too.
And I do agree with you in that the breed is being destroyed on the fast track.
And the only point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people have their "eyes wide shut" and instead of that breed enthusiast whining about how it's not right, those enthusiasts need to stop whining about it and expend some kinetic energy doing something about their supposed beloved breed.

[luvofallhorses]

I think there can be a difference between "provoked" and "triggered." I think it's more accurate to say there is always a trigger, but whether that is something that is within the dog and not identifiable, i.e. neurologic disorder perhaps, or just prey drive suddenly kicking in, is not always apparent to us. Provoked I think more along the lines of a person is doing something directly to the dog that causes it to react by attacking.

I agree. there's there is almost always something that triggers a dog to attack you.. they don't do it on purpose! there's always a reason why a dog would attack. being abused, neurogical problems, in pain..bad past life, etc. Some give a warning as a growl at first and then you need to leave them alone. I just don't know, a lot of what was said on this thread upsets me..just the bad things being said about dogs. I am a hard core dog lover and I hate to see them discriminated against. :( they don't judge us, why should we judge them?

[DrKym]

Totally agreed LMC. I raised and showed Rotties for nearly 23 years total, had some of the top Am Can Japanese champions. Fact is my beloved breed is being ruined by a deadly few people, compared to the many breeders and showers that care. The Pittie is on the fast track to total destruction and our only hope is to fuly support those that are breeding for all the right things these dogs have to offer. I say this not just for the pitties but for all the breeds. Not everyone should be a breeder no matter how adorable Fluffy may be. Our Cocker has more Champions in her line than you shake a stick at, she is stunning! She is Amazing! She is spayed. Yes I paid a small fortune in breach of contract fees but the fact is she has issues she can and will pass on to pups. Period. I will not spend my days wondering if a pup of mine harmed a person.

[MajesticCollies]

I think there can be a difference between "provoked" and "triggered." I think it's more accurate to say there is always a trigger, but whether that is something that is within the dog and not identifiable, i.e. neurologic disorder perhaps, or just prey drive suddenly kicking in, is not always apparent to us. OK I'll jump in real quick, but just real quick. I think K9Soul just hit it. We look at the breeding not just the breed. Look at us humans. What Neurological break down is causing the human race to be so aggressive and murderous? Is it bad DNA from these peoples generations past that the Neurological part of thier brain snaps in a blink of the eye? Why should a dog be different? Unfortunately in purebred breeding we are in control of what line breeds to what line.
Now why the concern of the Pit bull? Look at the power of the breed. Thats what makes it so much more dangerous then some of the others. I think I would rather be snapped and bitten by a Dachsund then crushed by the powerful jaws of a pit bull.I would rather be bitten by a GSD/Husky mix (which I have) then to encounter the bite of a pit bull. This is where all the bashing on these pits are coming from. They are just to powerful of biters. Someone said earlier in the threat that they were used to hunt and kill rats. Well when they found the rat I bet they didnt play with it till it died but crushed it till there was no movement in thier mouth before they let go.
It all boils down to what the neurological problem a certain dog may have if he wants to attack for no reason. No matter the breed. I have never been charged by a pit bull. I have been charged by 2 GSDs while walking my collie. I was able to quickly settle them down as they were 30 ft from me by talking nicely and acting like I was thier best friend. It usually works on most dogs. Luckily they weren't on a mission to attack.

Thats my two cents today on this subject. Oh and I want to thank all the groomers out there for taking one for the team for those who don't want to learn to groom thier own dogs. ;)

[luvofallhorses]

I have met a lot of pit bulls every one of them have been sweet and I am NOT just saying that either! I volunteer at my local no-kill shelter and have met quite a few and they all are sweet! :) they are bred for fighting which I hate and they are good with people..some are not good with other dogs. they cannot be shown ANY human aggression at all. when they fall into the right hands of RESPONSIBLE owners like Jadapit, I wish there were more responsible pit bull owners in this world like her. when they fall into the wrong hands, it screws up the reputation of the breed and ya know why they are banned in some places and have the reputation that they do? because of irresponsible ; careless owners!!

[cali]

I personaly have never met a "mean" pittie, not even dog agressive, Happy has attacked pitties before(she is fear agressive) did she hurt them? no. what did the pitties do? they stood there smiling and wagging their tails. Rotties? I have never met a mean rottie, but I AM afraid of them. why? because when I was young rotties eemed to be attracted to me, they never hurt me, but when your 8 years old and on 3 seperate occasions Rotties have appeared and chased you and jumped on you its frightning. a family friend had a Rottie, Jules, I was terrified of her, but I loved her lol I dont hold anything against the breed, if anything they are too friendly, they just scared be enugh when I was younger to make me very nervous around them now. labs and goldens? never met a mean lab or golden either, but I have only met 5 labs and 2 goldens.

now recently I read a story in the paper, the story under the picture was saying how how these 2 "rougue pit bulls" were going on a cat killing spree and the AC officers nad a hard time catching the dogs and they were bahving visiously. there was a photo of the scene with the story, and the phto did not match the story, the photo? 2 american bulldogs standing unrestrained beside the AC officers with grins on their faces looking up at the sun, and hopping willing into the van..yes these dogs were so horrably visious and uncontrolable :rolleyes:

[CagneyDog]

Can we just stop breed-specific bashing altogether? No one would tolerate someone talking about disliking and not going near a dog because it is a pit or a rottie, but no one has a problem with people making statements like that about goldens/labs or other breeds. I'm very saddened and disturbed by some of what I'm reading here

Very well said.

These statements against Labs/goldens etc show a lack of education that is just as bad, if not worse than those who share the same opinion about Pitties.

[animal_rescue]

I think there can be a difference between "provoked" and "triggered." I think it's more accurate to say there is always a trigger, but whether that is something that is within the dog and not identifiable, i.e. neurologic disorder perhaps, or just prey drive suddenly kicking in, is not always apparent to us. Provoked I think more along the lines of a person is doing something directly to the dog that causes it to react by attacking.

Well said, yes a reason there. Hannah(our RB German Shepherd) attacked for what seemed like no reason we then found out she was grieving the death of Simon(our other RB German Shepherd). It may seem like it was "no reason" but mentally there was.

[wolfsoul]

2 american bulldogs
Exactly, most of the dogs involved in attacks are not "american pit bull terriers," but dogs that look similar.

[Love That Collie]

No dog should ever attack or bite unless it or it's household is in danger or being threatend.
Grieving is not a reason, fear biting is not a reason, etc....those are excuses and excuses are not reasons for a dog to bite anything or anyone no matter what breed.

[king2005]

No dog should ever attack or bite unless it or it's household is in danger or being threatend.
Grieving is not a reason, fear biting is not a reason, etc....those are excuses and excuses are not reasons for a dog to bite anything or anyone no matter what breed.

Sorry but those are reasons why some dogs bite. There is always a reason for everything. Not saying that the reason is a good reason, but its still a reason regardless.

===

Another thing about the word Pit Bull, but there are SOOO many breeds put into this catergory.. Which I think is stupid. All the dogs are very different, yet they get the same lable. They really need to toss out the meaning for pit bull (yes I know there is a breed called the APBT, just talking about the other meaning) & start showing how often each breed has bitten, attacked or killed a human.. As there is a huge difference between, an APBT, AST, SBT, Boxer (stupid eh), bull mastiff, bull dog, & a freaken boston terrior!! <-- not kidding there!! GAH people are so stupid *smacks head*

[Love That Collie]

Excuse.

[zoomer]

Ouch! I've never gotten bit by a pit bull before, but I have gotten bit on my hand by a Dachshund/Chihuahua and a Chocolate Lab. My chin's been ripped by a Shnauzer. Never a pit bull though. I've got growled at and lunged at by a Golden Retriever. I've gotten bitten by a Fox Terrier on the hand. I know someone with a Pit Bull named Smokey and a Chihuahua, and I have to say, their Chihuahua scares me waaaay more than their pit bull! LOL.

[king2005]

If your going to have an adult debate, you actually have to say more then 1 word & post experiences, facts, I don't know anything but a 1 worded answer.. sheesh :rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

What might be seen as your "excuses," are seen as the dog's reasons. Dogs do not have the ability to think "well, this isn't a good reason to bite, it's only an excuse." Whether they feel scared, threatened, or they are just having a bad day, to them it's a reason. Dogs have the mental capacity of a toddler. Toddlers bite under the same judgement. Who are we to judge how a dog thinks until we can be in the same mindset? Over my time working with dogs I have been bitten every single day, so whether or not a should not bite, they do. They are animals, they have teeth, and a large potential to use them.

In the picture attached, only five of the dogs are pit bulls. Can you imagine being under attack by any of these breeds and actually being able ti identify what it was, as well as being knowledgeable enough to actually know what breed is what?

[K9soul]

I really don't see how you can use a human concept - excuse - on an animal. They have no thought process like that, "Oh I just need to find an excuse to bite." I can only assume you mean people are making excuses FOR the dogs that bite. However, I don't think people here are doing that either. They are only discussing some of the reasons/triggers that may not be apparent to us that have caused some dogs to react by biting.

Thought of an example: If I'm with a dog, and I decide to take a toy from him, and he bites me, the REASON he bit is because I took his toy. That doesn't make it okay, and in fact would mean that dog would need a serious NILIF program and obedience training or consult with a behaviorist. Reason does not equal excuse.. reason is just the trigger.