Breeding

[wolfsoul]

Do you think you'll ever be involved in breeding?

I'm applying for my kennel name as soon as I get off my lazy bum. The names I have so far are Melodic Night, Melodic Dream, ClearWater, and Hi-Drive. :) Not sure which one I want yet. It will be a small kennel. :) My goal is to breed the best dogs that go to the best homes. I'm so glad that some PTers have already taken an interest in one of Visa's future litters, because I know that they can provide wonderful homes! The next breeding will be with a very nice boy named Loki...and I'm considering his father, Chopin, for the one after that...I never ever thought a year ago that I'd get into breeding, or even be this much into dog stuff, but I love competing and I love being able to better a breed.

Do you think you'll ever get into breeding? And what would you breed?

[Flatcoatluver]

Honestly, no. I know I will really get into showing in the future. But there is so many bad breeders that I don’t want to breed. I know in the future I will own a couple flat-coats, a standard white poodle, and english setters. The future is so far away, that I won’t say I will never breed, but I doubt I will. I have already been a witness to breeding and it doesn’t interest me. I don’t want any chances either of the bitch or the puppies dieing during birth. If we ever own a breeding kennel it would be something like G and G, in memory of my grandfather.
ETA: why is this in the meeting section?

[wolfsoul]

Oops, i thought I put it in the poll section.

[Kfamr]

No way, no how, NEVER.

There are far too many homeless animals today and I could never bring myself to add to that problem.

I don't have much of a problem with some people breeding, however, I don't agree 100% with it, either.

[gemini9961]

Nope. I don't have the knowledge, time or effort to do it.

[animal_rescue]

I would love to show/breed/rescue Dobermans in my future. My kennel name has a very special meaning and yes it will be a small kennel as well. I also plan on getting one of your pups for agility/herding/obediance but I'm not sure on conformation yet. :D

[wolfsoul]

I also plan on getting one of your pups for agility/herding/obediance but I'm not sure on conformation yet. :D
That will be so awesome. :D I really want my puppies to go to performance homes.

[Giselle]

Yep, a show kennel breeding for the original Pekingese. I want my dogs to GLOW with authenticity. I want every homebred dog to possess a good, real Pekingese roll. I want them to possess a good, broad head. I want those strong facial features that ooze with authority. I don't want my dogs to look shy or timid. My dogs will be the epitome of what the ancient Chinese believed Pekingeses to be... Lion dogs.

Edit: I have already chosen a kennel name but I don't really like to share. It's very personal and original so I just don't like sharing.

[Glacier]

Nope, never again. We kinda bred one litter with Muskwa, but it was part of his contract when Stuart bought him. If I had been around at the time, that clause would have been removed from the contract, but we hadn't met yet! There are thousands of huskies already out there waiting for good homes. No need to produce anymore.

After my experience a couple weeks ago volunteering as ring steward at the local dog show, never again for that too!

[Roxyluvsme13]

Yes. I haven't decided fully on which breed yet, and I have a ton of research to do before I get started. It's either going to be Pomeranians or Boxers, since I love both breeds dearly, but it's going to be WAY in my future. For my kennel name, it's definitely going to have Roxy's name in it!

[jackie]

Nope, never for me.

[Chilli]

Nope. Never even condidered it. I can't see myself breeding anything at all... not even fish! :o
I'll leave that up to the pros who actually could breed right, and responsibly.
There will most always be plenty of breeders for most every breed. Not all the breeders are good, but why add to them (unless you have a specific goal to produce pups exactly how they're supposed ot look, such as what Giselle mentioned above)?
Basically, no, after seeing how a breeder who breeds just for money works (my friend's mum is that kind of breeder), my stomache churns. Some breeders have turned the word "breeder" into such a disgusting term.
((of course, I'm only talking about the ones that are just in it for the money)).

[lizbud]

No I wouldn't. I have zero interest in breeding any animal.

[Alysser]

No, I have no interest in breeding any animal. I don't know ANYTHING about good breeding so why produce more animals with no knowledge? I doubt I even would breed if I had knowledge. Like said, there are SO many bad breeders that over population is getting out of control. BUT, I am and will never be agianst breeders such as yourself. You seem very knowing about breeding and Visas breed.

For the record, if you still have your kennel when I move out into my own house I will DEFINATLEY consider getting one of your pups.

[bckrazy]

I really love ClearWater, Jordan! All of those kennel names are great. :)

It depends on what my adult life is like, what job I have, how much spare time/breaks I have and how stable my income is in the future (like, 10 years from now), but I would love to at least work & show my dogs. If I have dogs that I feel are worthy of breeding and I have the resources & time necessary, I would love to breed beautiful, healthy, working dogs. I love Border Collies and Cardigans, I especially love Cardigans and the lack of herding Cardi's could really stand some better breeders. Of course, I will *always* be involved in rescue, and I will keep as few dogs as necessary to give each one all of the private love & exercise they need... probably no more than 5 dogs at one time, not including the fosters that I hope to keep.

That said, I definitely will not breed dogs unless I'm completely dedicated to improving the breed. I won't do it for fun, or for money, or for "just one litter", because that is not improving anything, just adding to the overpopulation.

[IRescue452]

Not dogs. There are way too many homeless. I don't care if it has the looks to be a show dog, does being good looking give you the right to live while others die?

[critter crazy]

NEVER!! I have my hands full with rescues, not to mention the fact that i would love to run a rescue of my own. I have never been interested in breding and never will. I dont care about breed or conformation, all i care is that the dog is mine, and being well taken care of. I also would love to own a horse rescue facility, and have never thought to breed my own horses, there are just too many out there that need good homes. There are very many breeders out there and unfortunately most are not responsible! Breeding is not for me!!

[binka_nugget]

Once my business is stable enough, I would love to start breeding Shelties. Not a huge kennel though.. I want my pups to be perfect examples of the breed. Shelties are so popular now that there are a bunch of bad examples of the breed popping up. I want my Shelties to be able to work like they're supposed to, while still being a picture of elegance.

The more I learn about Belgians, the more I want to breed belgians too. I'd LOVE to breed Malinois cause I just love high-drive dogs but seeing as how Malinois are too much dog for most people, I've been thinking about possibly breeding my future Groen.. depending on her working ability, conformation and what boys I find for her.

Of course, I will also be rescuing. I don't believe in breeding if you don't/can't rescue either.

[wolfsoul]

I don't care if it has the looks to be a show dog, does being good looking give you the right to live while others die?
I think this is a bit irrelevant --- whether or not a dog deserves to die based on heritage is not the topic. Just because some of us choose to breed a certain look doesn't mean that we feel thatour dogs are better than other dogs and therefore deserve to live while others should die. I am breeding mainly for temperment. Good breeders also do rescue work. This year I have placed 12 kittens and one puppy, and am talking with a breeder about fostering a 4 month old tervuren, AND there are two pregnant cats coming here so that I can place both them and their kittens. I am applying to become a registered rescue through the SPCA. We are starting a kennel club and I am going to be head of rescue. I do 100 times the amount of rescue work than I do breeding. So just because one breeds, doesn't mean that one can't rescue.

That's cool that you might want to breed herding cardis Erica. :) That's one reason I want to breed Belgians -- not for working ability though, but rather temperment. There aren't many good tempered Belgians these days. In fact, it is one breed I hate grooming, and if I weren't biased, I would probably really dislike the breed. Belgians are big freaks; most people feel that breeding for show is terrible, but I won't breed to a dog that isn't shown. If you have a Belgian that actually stands for a judge, that says something to me.

[Lori Jordan]

I'd say yes we might be breeding Maggy in the spring,Not too sure yet but has been talked about.Good Luck with the fostering your doing a great job helping animals in need.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Why are you breeding Maggy..?

[bckrazy]

I totally agree, temperament is more important than anything. A dog who looks amazing & can work shouldn't be bred at all if they have an unpredictable temperament. That is the case with a lot of breeds, I hate that some breeders become so obsessed with appearance that they miss the fact that dogs are companions first. I've had first-hand experience with our Champion Cocker who attacked my sister for no reason, and went on to attack another child. I also know a lady who breeds GSD's and trains them in the same complex where we train for Flyball, often on the same days. Her dogs are drop-dead gorgeous, but the lady has more than a few screws loose. I witnessed her training her GSD stud in the field next to us, with a 3-foot-long metal rod, and beating him with it when he lunged toward our dogs. We yelled over to her that she needs to leave if she's going to hit her dog, and she replied for real saying "I'm training this dog for Search & Rescue! I have to do this! Do you want him to kill a child?" She's seriously breeding a GSD and attempting to train him for SAR after he has bitten children, AND she's beating him on top of that -_-... it makes me sick when people breed with no regard to future puppies & future generations. I also know a lady on my team who brought her (AKC pointed) Border Collie bitch, in season, to practice and intends to breed her. It crushed me because this dog literally IS a black & white Golden Retriever! She has no ball drive, won't even hit the box, is slow, doesn't have an ounce of herding drive in her, has a fluffy coat and short muzzle, she has at least 15 pounds and 3 inches on my male BC, and she's totally aloof to other dogs and people. She doesn't have the BC spark in her eye, which to me is just as bad as breeding a dog with an aggressive temperament. If they are breeding dogs with a personality that is against how the breed should be, that is doing a disservice to the breed. It's really great that you emphasize a good personality in your dogs, because that is huge.

I understand where some of you guys are coming from, and breeding truly is not for 99% of people because it consumes so much time/energy/money and takes a truly dedicated person. But, reputable breeders are not producing the dogs that die in shelters. As a breeder, it is their responsibility to keep track of the puppies they produce and ensure that the homes they go to either keep the pup or return it. If their pups end up in shelters, they are not a reputable breeder no matter what. The vast majority of breeders ARE BYB's or puppy mills, and they do not care where the dogs they breed end up. I definitely agree that breeding dogs should not be done if it is not done responsibly and to better the particular breed.

[bckrazy]

Why are you breeding Maggy..?

I second that. I'm not trying to critisize, I just want to know what assets she has (herding titles? health certs? temperament tests?) that makes her worth breeding, besides cuteness of course! ;)

[luvofallhorses]

NEVER would I get involved in breeding. Like Kay said, there are too many animals needing homes already and I don't want to add to the problem. I'd rather rescue/adopt than be involved in breeding. and I will ALWAYS rescue/adopt, not get involved in breeding, ever.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I second that. I'm not trying to critisize, I just want to know what assets she has (herding titles? health certs? temperament tests?) that makes her worth breeding, besides cuteness of course! ;)
Yeah, I'm not trying to criticize either, just wondering as to if she's breed-worthy.

[Lori Jordan]

I really don't think it's about Breed worthy,My Breeder on which i purchased Maggy from hung his Jacket up.There has been lots of requests for the herding dogs,he just mentioned it to me she has good working lines in her,Now im not sure if i'm going too,But these dogs are amazing they have great temperment,there hard workers,(what these people want)Now i never said i was going to just something that has been run by me,And it is totally not up too me it will be my Husband,He don't work full time and i do.I really have no time and since he has been hurt,he can no longer work due to his condition..But if i was to go ahead it would not be to breed just to breed,I have done it before never had complaints im set up have a kennel have the room,have the money to get these dogs shots etc etc.I'm not irresponsible my dogs have only the best.

[BC_MoM]

If I had the knowledge, experience, time, and money to do it, I may have considered it.

But I'm no where near knowledgable enough to breed dogs.

All of us at PT know you are very knowledgable, though, Jordan, and we know that you are very responsible. I'm not worried about ya.

I love the names Melodic Night and ClearWater.. but my favourite of the two is ClearWater! :D

[Lori Jordan]

Thank-you Hun,I have seen people say in here they want to breed to make extra money,WHich is crazy you don't make that much money,You put more into it if you ask me and i never charged outragious prices like some have,I have seen so many crazy things on breeding in here,I'm not like that nor will i ever.Now this will not happen until next year if it even will.But negativity will not change my mind never has never will.Also Maggy has my best intrest at heart i'd never do anything to harm her,She will be taken too the vet and gone over and if the vet says not a good idea if she has health problems(god forbid)OR he just observes that she is not ready or ever will be it will not happen her health and life is all i care about,I would never put her in harms way to please somone never!

[.sarah]

I still don't know. I've thought yes, then no, then yes, then no, and I can't seem to come to a decision. I want to, my problem is that I don't know if I can commit to titling my dogs. I am hoping to have rescue dogs of my own as well as foster dogs and if I'm traveling to shows all the time - what will I do with my dogs who aren't in the shows?

I could easily commit to everything else involved in responsible breeding. So should I have time for shows, yes, I would probably do it. I do hope I am able to do it one day, but I'm just not sure yet.

I've thought of breeding Buck, but his dad's lineage isn't what I'd hoped for (very leggy dogs with boxy heads, and very few titles - good field instincts though), so I think I'd rather put my time and energy (and money) into a dog with better lineage. I've talked to a lot of reputable breeders of different breeds (including Labs), they think so long as he's titled and health tested that they'd give it a go, but I don't know yet, I'm going to wait and see how I feel when he's fully grown. There's so many Labs out there that really I think I should only breed him if I felt he could add something really special to a new generation.

[k9krazee]

No, I have no desire to. I think my biggest problem is that I love too many different breeds I could never put so much time and effort into one. :p

I will always have performance dogs though since I am ADDICTED to agility (and would love to try dock diving, frisbee, freestyle and flyball) :D In about 4 years, I'd love to get one of your pups, Jordan ;) :D

[Tralee]

I really don't know. If I were to get a dog from a breeder and it proved itself and had a very successful career, then I might consider breeding. Obviously it would have everything tested to make sure no health problems were passed down. It is unlikely that I would ever breed, but if the circumstances were right then I may do it. I would breed to meet my own needs in what I want in a dog. All puppies would be spoken for before the dogs are actually bred.
I don't see it happening as I want to continue rescueing dogs!

[wolfsoul]

In about 4 years, I'd love to get one of your pups, Jordan ;) :D
Yaaay. :D :D I'm going to be the only Belgian breeder in the world that has enough people on my waiting list LOL.

[lute]

i want to breed great danes and POSSIBLY siberians. showing in conformation would come first, but if i had a really nice dog/bitch and there is a dog that would compliment the dog i would breed. but ONLY if i had homes lined up, money, time, space, etc.

i would breed for health, conformation and tempermant. there are a lot of show breeders that only breed for conformation. my breeder friend i got Houston from pretty much breeds for conformation, but won't breed an extreamly spooky or aggresive dog.

if i breed danes i would try to get nice heads, strong level toplines, tails, and of course proper coloring. i will only breed what the GDCA says is acceptable to breed. i don't like some of the heads on males. they can be a little feminine. tempermants will be gentle, loving, and never aggressive or shy.

if i breed siberians i would DEFINATLY breed for good heads, tails, level toplines, and ear size. there are sooooo many sibes out there with curly tails! the AKC breed standard says "The well furred tail of fox-brush shape is set on just below the level of the topline, and is usually carried over the back in a graceful sickle curve when the dog is at attention. When carried up, the tail does not curl to either side of the body, nor does it snap flat against the back. A trailing tail is normal for the dog when in repose." their tails are NOT suppose to touch their backs! there are a lot of dogs with BIG ears. like radars.hehe. they are suppose to be well proportioned to the head. another common problem is heads. too narrow, shallow stop, pointy noses, etc. i want a medium well furred head with a well defined stop.

i believe that you shouldn't breed unless you do your share of rescue work. even right now i take in homeless dogs. i wouldn't add to the overpopulation problem without doing something to help it!

(EDIT: if i could hook the sibes up to a sled that would be great! to see if they can perform the job they were bred to do. unfortinatly i can't do that here)

[K9soul]

Nope, no desire here to breed. There are other dog-related things I'd love to get into but I don't have the time, money or knowledge to get into breeding.

There is a town near here called Clearwater so that is always what I'd think of with that kennel name LOL. It is a neat name though. I personally like single-word kennel names as it seems to give more options for registered names without making it ridiculously long.

I think your siggy is really cute by the way Jordan, Visa has such a lovely profile :)

[zoomer]

I would like to breed dogs someday, but only if the dogs were champions in Comformation or Agility or something like that...

I would be interested in breeding either Neapolitan Mastiffs, Boxers, or Rottweilers.

[wolfsoul]

I think your siggy is really cute by the way Jordan, Visa has such a lovely profile :)
Thank you! :) That is one of my favourite pictures of Visa, I even entered it in the Dogs in Canada magzine photo contest. Hope it wins, we'll find out next month.

There is a town named Coldstream here, and for some reason I get it mixed up with Clearwater all the time lol, so that's one reason I don't like the name ClearWater, but it sure sounds pretty. I'm also trying to think of something with the word wolf in it, or something to do with black or darkness.

[BC_MoM]

Thank-you Hun,I have seen people say in here they want to breed to make extra money,WHich is crazy you don't make that much money,You put more into it if you ask me and i never charged outragious prices like some have,I have seen so many crazy things on breeding in here,I'm not like that nor will i ever.Now this will not happen until next year if it even will.But negativity will not change my mind never has never will.Also Maggy has my best intrest at heart i'd never do anything to harm her,She will be taken too the vet and gone over and if the vet says not a good idea if she has health problems(god forbid)OR he just observes that she is not ready or ever will be it will not happen her health and life is all i care about,I would never put her in harms way to please somone never!

Sorry, I was talking to wolfsoul Jordan, not you.

[lute]

Lori Jordan, if you want to breed Maggy that's your choice. i'm not gonna tell you not to. i will say that if you do breed her get all genetic tests done. a dog can look and act just fine, but inside they can be a ticking time bomb for problems that didn't have to happen if BOTH sire/dam were tested and passed.

[Roxyluvsme13]

She may have a good temperament and you may take good care of the puppies, but I still don't think you should breed her. Yeah, she's cute, but you don't even show her or anything, do you? What better would she bring to the breed besides temperament?

[K9soul]

I'm also trying to think of something with the word wolf in it, or something to do with black or darkness.

How about Ebonwolf :p (ebony + wolf)

[wolfsoul]

Hey, you're good! LOL. :eek: I like that, Ebonwolf. I bet no one has used it either. Thanks for the idea, that's an awesome name.

[PinkSunshine]

Definitely!

Our dogue de bordeaux has already been bred (to a ch. female ddb) and had 9 pups, 4 of whom went to potential showing homes (if they ended up being 'perfect' breed standard). He is ch. titled and had all health testing done prior to being bred. When we move (not enough room here) we plan on looking for a female ddb and showing her and then breeding the 2 of them, if everything works out. I have a mentor (I don't think ANYONE should get into breeding without one) who's been showing/breeding for over 20 years now and we will do things right.

Although I don't think we'll have more than 3 or 4 dogues at a time :)

[lute]

Definitely!

Our dogue de bordeaux has already been bred (to a ch. female ddb) and had 9 pups, 4 of whom went to potential showing homes (if they ended up being 'perfect' breed standard). He is ch. titled and had all health testing done prior to being bred. When we move (not enough room here) we plan on looking for a female ddb and showing her and then breeding the 2 of them, if everything works out. I have a mentor (I don't think ANYONE should get into breeding without one) who's been showing/breeding for over 20 years now and we will do things right.

Although I don't think we'll have more than 3 or 4 dogues at a time :)

that's awesome that the pups turned out so nicely! i hope all your litters are that good. i had no idea you showed dogs! i agree that is is a must to have an experiaced breeder to guide you through the pregnancy, labor, and raising the pups.

[PinkSunshine]

that's awesome that the pups turned out so nicely! i hope all your litters are that good. i had no idea you showed dogs! i agree that is is a must to have an experiaced breeder to guide you through the pregnancy, labor, and raising the pups.

Yea, it was a great experience. We looked for a female that evened out his charecteristics.. (Helped his weaknesses, ect) And the pups pedigree were pretty much all red! AWESOME European bloodlines. I hope future litters turn out that great as well :)

We handled him ourselves (well, my husband more than I) and titled him last year.

[Danegirl2208]

yes..
i will be purchasing my first show pup sometime in the next year and a half (maybe longer)..it has been a dream of mine since before i could remember to breed top quality Great Danes..i have learned tons of things in the last few years, ive spent countless hours reading about breeding, raising puppies, showing, genetics ect...my first show pup is going to be a male, and i am not in any hurry to start breeding, i want to get a feel for the show world before i even think about breeing my first bitch...i have been looking for this pup for forever it seems, cant seem to find a line i like..and i personally dont like the look of the American lines.. but i have just recently narrowed it down to 4 kennels..all of which are in Europe.
Breeding is not for everyone..it takes a lot of time, money and patience. Anyone can breed a litter of puppies, but i really wish more people would breed for the right reasons..i would not even THINK about breeding my dogs unless they have earned their CH., are good breed ambassadors, have sound bodies and mind, and have been health checked, and have PASSED all tests (hips, heart, elbows, thyroid ect). Every breeding i did would have a specific purpose in mind, to better the breed.

[Suki Wingy]

Yes, under the name Longfellow. I wish to dedicate my life to producing sounder, healthier, typeir, friendlier, clowning dogs. My goal is to have almost every dog I produce be able to excell at road working and conformation, have reliable temperaments, all be bilateral (hearing), have excelent pigment, and for a line that breeds through. I want people to say, "That's a Longfellow dog!" just by seeing one.

[Giselle]

I really don't think it's about Breed worthy,My Breeder on which i purchased Maggy from hung his Jacket up.There has been lots of requests for the herding dogs,he just mentioned it to me she has good working lines in her,Now im not sure if i'm going too,But these dogs are amazing they have great temperment,there hard workers,(what these people want)Now i never said i was going to just something that has been run by me,And it is totally not up too me it will be my Husband,He don't work full time and i do.I really have no time and since he has been hurt,he can no longer work due to his condition..But if i was to go ahead it would not be to breed just to breed,I have done it before never had complaints im set up have a kennel have the room,have the money to get these dogs shots etc etc.I'm not irresponsible my dogs have only the best.
Okay, I don't want to get emotional but I want to scream out of frustration and envy every time I hear of these "I guess I'm going to breed", "We're thinking about breeding but...", "I think I want to breed..." comments. The decision to bring numerous lives into this world should be well thought out and planned in advance!!!

People breed because they LOVE THEIR BREED. They do it out of pure passion! They dedicate their lives for the procreation of a breed that they have sacrificed everything for. When I hear comments like, "Yeah, I guess we're gonna breed her after the vet gives an okay", I want to scream because they're tricking themselves into a false sense of security. Just because you go through all the vet visits and your vet gives you an okay to breed, it DOES NOT give you a license to introduce new lives into an extremely overpopulated world.

Your vet is only there to secure the life of your dog. He does not care whether your dog is mixed, pure, titled, etc. He doesn't know what pedigree your dog came from. He doesn't know whether or not your dog is a carrier of genetic diseases. He can't give you his opinion on the ethics of your breeding plans. That's YOUR job. Quite frankly, I don't think many people realize the work and passion that is put into these breedings.

Why do I envy the aforementioned "breeders"? I envy them because they get to breed without going through any of the pains that I did. I spent countless hours simply studying the history of my breed, studying names that I've never heard of so that I may appreciate the modern Pekingese. I woke up in the wee hours of the morning to drive to dog shows so that I may see which kennels were producing which dogs and which dogs were "type-y". I spent weeks and months understanding what type was! I envy those who can breed without going through the pains that I did. At the same time, I pity them because they are going to be blamed for the introduction of new lives that will very likely end up unwanted. And yet, despite all the labor that I went through, I still am not fit to breed.

*sigh* People... just leave breeding to those who are REALLY passionate about it and know what they're doing. :(

[bckrazy]

I completely agree with you, Sophie!!! Completely!

Lori Jordan, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm only honest with my concerns. I am in love with Border Collies. I have fostered a BC puppy, I have a BC, and I help out at BC Rescue events every summer. I see *countless* Border Collies who CAN work, who probably have good working lines, and who are sweet dogs, who die in shelters or cannot find a suitable working home because of the excess breeding of this breed. Please, for your dogs sake, at least get her hips tested and the same for the sire... hip dysplasia is running rampant in the breed, even in young dogs who seem ok. For a real working rancher, a dog with some working lines doesn't mean crap. If the dog does not work daily, has titles, has clearances, and is proven, the dog is not suitable for breeding - period. I've been around enough dedicated working dog people to know this as a fact. If you/your husband wants to breed her that badly, at least put fourth the effort to get her HIC and get her into herding lessons to prove her ability. I would never consider breeding a Border Collie unless they had exceptional drive, eye, and working ability, exceptional conformation, very biddable and a great temperament for the breed. Of course the necessary time, space & money is needed, but to breed healthy pups you need more than "shots". If everyone who could afford shots and a kennel bred their friendly dogs with "good lines", imagine the MILLIONS more homeless dogs that would be in this world. Gonzo is registered & has notable lines, has been through more herding & dog sports than your bitch has, and has decent conformation... does this mean I should've bypassed neutering him and bred him? No. Why? Only the best, of the best dogs need be bred when 4-6 million die every year. I do not consider him exceptional for his breed, at all. By exceptional I mean able to work all day, able to independently work livestock out of range of the handler, able to trial & take on unexpected events in training or on their own property, beautiful structure and excellent hips & elbows, superb, confident, loyal temperament that is called for in the breed, and superior intelligence that allows them to go from herding to flyball to obedience to hanging out with their family. Imagine if everyone just bred their dogs based on lineage. Sure, it's an indicator, but the only real indicator is working the dog yourself and proving she works like a Border Collie; which is most important in the breed, that they work like a BC should. If everyone bred based on lines alone and not working merit, how many dogs with poor drive (such as chasing instead of circling) would end up being bred, or dogs with no eye or dogs with very little drive at all? I also hope you'll be selling pet pups on spay/neuter & return contracts.

That is being honest & up front about the problems facing our country and what responsible dog owners NEED TO do about it, if it seems "negative", well, overpopulation and backyard breeding isn't exactly a positive thing.

[cloverfdx]

No never, i have no desire to add to the canine population.


I'd say yes we might be breeding Maggy in the spring
What working experience has Maggie had? having come from good working lines does not mean much.. My Elvis comes from some awesome working lines and does not work that well (Probably lack of time on my part aswell). There are so many wonderful working dogs being PTS every single day.

And then there are the people who are passionate about their working dogs and improving working ability, they put their hearts and souls into what they do.

If you are serious get out there and get Maggy working, go buy her a farm and then consider it ;).

[Vela]

I completely agree with you, Sophie!!! Completely!

Lori Jordan, I'm not trying to be negative. I'm only honest with my concerns. I am in love with Border Collies. I have fostered a BC puppy, I have a BC, and I help out at BC Rescue events every summer. I see *countless* Border Collies who CAN work, who probably have good working lines, and who are sweet dogs, who die in shelters or cannot find a suitable working home because of the excess breeding of this breed. Please, for your dogs sake, at least get her hips tested and the same for the sire... hip dysplasia is running rampant in the breed, even in young dogs who seem ok. For a real working rancher, a dog with some working lines doesn't mean crap. If the dog does not work daily, has titles, has clearances, and is proven, the dog is not suitable for breeding - period. I've been around enough dedicated working dog people to know this as a fact. If you/your husband wants to breed her that badly, at least put fourth the effort to get her HIC and get her into herding lessons to prove her ability. I would never consider breeding a Border Collie unless they had exceptional drive, eye, and working ability, exceptional conformation, very biddable and a great temperament for the breed. Of course the necessary time, space & money is needed, but to breed healthy pups you need more than "shots". If everyone who could afford shots and a kennel bred their friendly dogs with "good lines", imagine the MILLIONS more homeless dogs that would be in this world. Gonzo is registered & has notable lines, has been through more herding & dog sports than your bitch has, and has decent conformation... does this mean I should've bypassed neutering him and bred him? No. Why? Only the best, of the best dogs need be bred when 4-6 million die every year. I do not consider him exceptional for his breed, at all. By exceptional I mean able to work all day, able to independently work livestock out of range of the handler, able to trial & take on unexpected events in training or on their own property, beautiful structure and excellent hips & elbows, superb, confident, loyal temperament that is called for in the breed, and superior intelligence that allows them to go from herding to flyball to obedience to hanging out with their family. Imagine if everyone just bred their dogs based on lineage. Sure, it's an indicator, but the only real indicator is working the dog yourself and proving she works like a Border Collie; which is most important in the breed, that they work like a BC should. If everyone bred based on lines alone and not working merit, how many dogs with poor drive (such as chasing instead of circling) would end up being bred, or dogs with no eye or dogs with very little drive at all? I also hope you'll be selling pet pups on spay/neuter & return contracts.

That is being honest & up front about the problems facing our country and what responsible dog owners NEED TO do about it, if it seems "negative", well, overpopulation and backyard breeding isn't exactly a positive thing.


You voice this very well, and I agree with you, unfortuantely you are wasting your breath=(

[lute]

bckrazy, i agree with you 100%!!! you said that very well!

Giselle, VERY well said! it takes A LOT to breed right and it's not something you can just hop into. i too have researched and gotten up at the wee hours of the morning just to go "watch" a breed ring. not compeat. while my family moved to IN i stayed in TN to help welp a litter of puppies to further my knowledge. most siberian people ask me why i'm getting Gracie spayed. they say i can still get a nice litter out of her. i don't want to have my first litter from an unshowable dog. i also think i have a lot more to learn before i breed any dog.

hopefully Lori Jordan or anyone else will take what you've both said into consideration.

[Lori Jordan]

She may have a good temperament and you may take good care of the puppies, but I still don't think you should breed her. Yeah, she's cute, but you don't even show her or anything, do you? What better would she bring to the breed besides temperament?
I think that was an ignorant remark,She is in flyball and agility,here in Canada Border Collies,are not really show dogs to begin with.A dog does not need to be a show dog to be qualified to breed.And what would she bring to the breed,she is a hard working dog it's in her i have never trained her to herd,I let her out in my Dad's field you should of seen what this dog can do it's in her,And it really don't matter whether you think this or not not one of us would have our dogs if they were not breed,What i choose to do should not be turned into negativity.I like how some get good replies on Breeding and i get NO NO NO.

[Lori Jordan]

I have not once said anything about not loving the breed obviously i do or i would not have 2 border Collies,I think when someone mentions something as big is this if they have nothing positive to say they should leave the subject alone,I have seen others in this thread that have been breeding and get pats on the back.
As i said it's in my husbands hands not mine so don't judge me.And if he chooses i ain't going to Bash him for it,I have been in this before we both know what we are doing,And as too the vet checks,i realize and know what to do i guess people have not been reading what i have been writing i would never put my Maggy in harms way.

[Lori Jordan]

Maggy and the stud dog have both been cleared,She will be going in again before breeding is even an option some people do not realize i've done this before.........I know what i'm doing

[k9krazee]

Oh! Maggy is in flyball and agility! I did not know that! Does she have any titles?

[bckrazy]

"I really don't think it's about Breed worthy"

From that, I understandably got the idea that you were breeding her without proving her as worthy of passing on her genes. Please do explain further next time, so that there is no need for anyone to make assumptions, which I guess I did and I apologize. =P

I know you love BC's, I just mentioned that because I totally adore the breed as well, and I hate what BYB's who never even think to work or test their dogs are doing to the breed. I basically posted thinking that Maggy had not been tested or worked, as you haven't posted anything about that at all. I had no idea she was in Flyball or Agility. I also had no idea about her hips & elbows being cleared, because you mentioned in another a post that you didn't do so for the GSD's your bred, so I made another assumption. Just fyi, Gonzo can also go "work" some livestock, I think any decently bred BC can... it's different between a BC who can round up livestock instinctively (which I've seen 6 month old puppies doing with no training) - and a dog who can do a great out-run, take commands from a distance and work independently, who has been trained and worked with to do so. IMO, only the BC's who work regularly and can excel at advanced trials should be bred, because they need to be able to perform the work that they were bred to do. I understand your view on not showing working dogs, even though it's often advised to at least have conformation that fits the standard, and totally respect that. But, if you are not breeding for conformation, at least breed for an excellent working dog who has been trialed and proven. About "others" who breed their dogs, I think some of them do get encouragement, because some breeders on PT have planned their litters and posted about plans literally years in advance, and we've taken the trip with them through health certs, working, sports, conformation, etc. If you're asking why we all support Jordan, she didn't just come on saying "Well... I might breed Visa, it depends. meh." :p She explained how she was going through dog sports, herding, & conformation with Visa, her researching studs, her health testing, everything. So, yes, we do feel like we know a lot more about Jordan and her breeding ethics than what I could collect from your brief & indecisive post. Just for the record, I would tell the exact same thing to anyone posting that they're thinking about breeding with no background info, no matter who they were.

I highly recommend the boards at http://bordercollie.org, there is several great BC breeders there, and lots of info on trialing & working dogs. Really great, informative posts even to just scan through.

[cali]

yep, thats one of the reasons I chose Misty, as a possable foundation bitch. but she still needs to finish her health clearences, and show me more proof of her working ability, professional sheepdog trialers and farmers have told me that Misty is better then average, I dont know, I made the mistake of working Happy on sheep first, and seeing as she is absolutly incredable and the shephereds and trialers all looked on in disbelief...well it kinda made Misty look a lot worse then she actually is lol

[wolf_Q]

No I really don't see myself ever breeding dogs. With such a huge pet overpopulation already, I wouldn't want to add to that. I do have one breed that I absolutely love and would like to devote all my time to (siberian huskies) but I would rather do that with having a Siberian Husky rescue. :)

Plus I really can't see myself having unspayed and unneutered dogs running around the house, just not for me!

[Lori Jordan]

"I really don't think it's about Breed worthy"

From that, I understandably got the idea that you were breeding her without proving her as worthy of passing on her genes. Please do explain further next time, so that there is no need for anyone to make assumptions, which I guess I did and I apologize. =P

I know you love BC's, I just mentioned that because I totally adore the breed as well, and I hate what BYB's who never even think to work or test their dogs are doing to the breed. I basically posted thinking that Maggy had not been tested or worked, as you haven't posted anything about that at all. I had no idea she was in Flyball or Agility. I also had no idea about her hips & elbows being cleared, because you mentioned in another a post that you didn't do so for the GSD's your bred, so I made another assumption. Just fyi, Gonzo can also go "work" some livestock, I think any decently bred BC can... it's different between a BC who can round up livestock instinctively (which I've seen 6 month old puppies doing with no training) - and a dog who can do a great out-run, take commands from a distance and work independently, who has been trained and worked with to do so. IMO, only the BC's who work regularly and can excel at advanced trials should be bred, because they need to be able to perform the work that they were bred to do. I understand your view on not showing working dogs, even though it's often advised to at least have conformation that fits the standard, and totally respect that. But, if you are not breeding for conformation, at least breed for an excellent working dog who has been trialed and proven. About "others" who breed their dogs, I think some of them do get encouragement, because some breeders on PT have planned their litters and posted about plans literally years in advance, and we've taken the trip with them through health certs, working, sports, conformation, etc. If you're asking why we all support Jordan, she didn't just come on saying "Well... I might breed Visa, it depends. meh." :p She explained how she was going through dog sports, herding, & conformation with Visa, her researching studs, her health testing, everything. So, yes, we do feel like we know a lot more about Jordan and her breeding ethics than what I could collect from your brief & indecisive post. Just for the record, I would tell the exact same thing to anyone posting that they're thinking about breeding with no background info, no matter who they were.

I highly recommend the boards at http://bordercollie.org, there is several great BC breeders there, and lots of info on trialing & working dogs. Really great, informative posts even to just scan through.

I never ment it like that just a snappy remark that came my way.....

[Lori Jordan]

Oh! Maggy is in flyball and agility! I did not know that! Does she have any titles?
Not of as of yet we have missed alot i have some pictures.She is up against dogs that have done this since the age of 6 months she knows what she is doing it's amazing how fast they pic up.We have a big meet mid August we will be attending in New York she is third in the class we are in now.She enjoys Flyball more than agility but she does well at both!

[Lori Jordan]

When i say we might that means we might,Who knows what the future will bring.I am not a backyard breeder no shape or form.This is all in my Husbands hands he has been brought up breeding,His mother breeds shelties has for 30 years he was raised around kennels and also help run the boarding and grooming.He is very knowlegeable in that part.When we first purchased Maggy our Contract the breeding part was put on hold Dennis,our Breeder was not sure if he would want to Breed her or not so she was a co-owned dog you could pretty much call it.He was into Breeding for 37 years Border Collies and Golden Retrievers,Very good man.His wife became sick with cancer so he had to tend to her and give his dogs up.We were offered Maggy's Dad Brendan,He was six years old Stud since 2.I thought about it but at that time Maggy was in heat and i did not want to take a chance,But Brendan is having his last litter and im excited to see them,He is such a loving dog but 6 years old not fixed my animals are all in the house and he was pretty much an outdoor dog...just would not mix,I wish him the best though.
Dennis worked with a gentleman out of Quebec who has the stud dog here is a pic of Charger.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i79/JamieLori/Fly.jpg
He is on the left smiling lol he looks like he has attitude but is a gentle giant.

[buttercup132]

If I had the money I would probly breed a dog who is kind of rare and that you almost NEVER see in shelters. Like I wouldnt do something common like a Golden retriver or German Sheperd cause there are tons in shelters already and I wouldnt have the money to get into the joint problems of the Sheperds.
But something like the Chinese Crested that you dont see much in shelters I would maybe breed. Or English Bull Terriers cause its SOOOO HARD to find a desent or any breeder for the matter in Canada espcially ONT there are a few in BC but not many.

[dab_20]

I doubt I'll ever get into breeding. It takes ALOT of time and money, and I don't know if I'd ever have that kind of time for showing and other things. If I ever did go into breeding it would be with Cocker Spaniels.

[Sevaede]

Maybe, one day, Lundehunds or Affens.

[chrissycat21]

Breeding isn't something I see myself doing. It has never really interested me, so I don't think I'll be breeding anytime soon. Like others have said, I would rather adopt a dog. Just walking past all the dogs at the shelter that are begging for homes makes me want to someday be able give them a chance. :)