Which last name?

[catnapper]

This is a discussion we're embarking on right now: does the baby get her last name or the father's?

The father says it will be his. Hubby thinks the baby should have her last name. She doesn't want to bring it up because she knows whichever name she chooses will bring on a HUGE fight -- either make the father or her father mad.

So, I figured, no matter what name she chooses, she should be informed and make a decision based on facts and not on which choice will make the least ripples.

Please offer pros and cons on which last name the baby should have.

I honestly don't know which way she'll go (I don't think she knows either) but I think she should go with whatever will be "right" after weighing the pros and cons of each side.

For instance, I heard that if the baby gets his last name, that when they break up and start a battle over custody, that the father will have more leverage if the baby has his name... of course that might be a complete bunch of baloney.

His last name is admittedly a strange sounding last name, and doesn't really have a nice "ring" to it. Our last name always is mispelled and misprounced (so its not a perfect name either) There's no way she'll hyphenate as the names sound dreadful together.

PS: We have given our opinon on which name to choose and left it there. We aren't nagging about giving the baby her last name, merely given our opinion, and are leaving it up to what she eventually decides.

*edit* I'll add more info that might make a difference or not:
Ash is 18, living at home with us, and has no plans to marry the father in any forseeable future. She knows the odds of them lasting as a couple is slim, though I'm sure she'd like to hope they do survive the next few years.

[JenBKR]

oh that's a toughie. My own personal opinion, I'd say go with her's. He doesn't sound like he's being a very stand up guy about all of this (unless I missed something in a thread somewhere, which I very well may have!). How much involvement does he intend to have?

[kuhio98]

I voted the Dad's. I know nothing about he legal ramifications, but I think the father's name is the right thing. That's the traditional thing (in this country, anyway). It doesn't matter the circumstances of our conception or if our parents stayed together. It's a link to the other half of our DNA. At some point, this child will want to know his father and his father's family. It doesn't matter if the father is a good guy or not. If he ever steps up to the plate. If he ever pays child support. This is his child. Grandad should butt out and let this woman start making decisions. She doesn't need to feel like she is betraying someone when she makes a choice. To me this doesn't even need to be an issue. Father - Dad - sperm donor -- whatever you want to call him is responsible for half the DNA of your grandchild.

[catnapper]

Jen, depends on who you ask. I have not seen him do one thing or give one thing for the baby. Its one thing I told her that bothers me - that he hasn't given her even one rattle or bib. Maybe we're not giving him enough credit since he's not very expressive when he's here; I'll have to go by what Ashley says about him......

Ashley on the other hand says he gets insulted and feels left out of all the baby stuff. She says he wants to be a part of it and got very hurt on Sunday at the shower when everyone was oohhhing and aahhhing over her and the baby, and basically ignored him.

I am happy that he wants to be there and wants to be a part of the baby's life. Apparently his own father is not there, and he wants to be different and be there for the baby. VERY admirable. I just wish the rest of the family saw and heard those sentiments from him.

Kuhio, thanks for your opinon! :) I really do need to see both sides of the story. Whether or not dad and mom are together, dad will ALWAYS be in the picture and we'll always make sure he gets the baby. Just because he has or doesn't have hte father's last name would never change that.

[Samantha Puppy]

That's a toughie. If the father is going to be very involved in this child's life, I'd say go with his. If he isn't going to be involved (much or especially at all), go with mom's.

[lvpets2002]

:) WOW thats a toughy = Its been traditionaly to be the fathers = however sign of the times states it could be the mother's.. I would state Ash needs to calculate her relationship with the father on if long term or short term to make the choose.. This is just only my opinion ok.. Good Luck & let us know..

[Logan]

I voted for the father's last name, but ONLY if he is going to be a part of this baby's life. My daughter carries her father's last name, and that is ok with me, as long as he participates, contributes to, and is a part of her life, which he has and will.

Just my two cents.

Logan

[JenBKR]

Jen, depends on who you ask. I have not seen him do one thing or give one thing for the baby. Its one thing I told her that bothers me - that he hasn't given her even one rattle or bib. Maybe we're not giving him enough credit since he's not very expressive when he's here; I'll have to go by what Ashley says about him......

Ashley on the other hand says he gets insulted and feels left out of all the baby stuff. She says he wants to be a part of it and got very hurt on Sunday at the shower when everyone was oohhhing and aahhhing over her and the baby, and basically ignored him.

That's good that he says wants to be there (sometimes hard to tell unless you actually hear it from him firsthand, I know what you mean). That is such a hard decision. Maybe this is a dumb question, but is it possible to change the last name at some point? Like if she decided to use his last name, then in a few years he split and she never heard from him again and she decided that she wanted her child to have her last name. I'm not saying that I think it would happen, just curious if you can even legally do that.

[BOBS DAD]

For instance, I heard that if the baby gets his last name, that when they break up and start a battle over custody, that the father will have more leverage if the baby has his name... of course that might be a complete bunch of baloney.

Oh... that's has got to be the "biggest pile of Jumbo (that's what we call baloney in Pgh)" I've ever heard. Women have always and "will" always have for the foreseeable future the most leverage in a custody battle in a court of law - reagrdless of the bay's name.

On a sidenote, when you are about to give birth to your baby, let us hope you are not thinking ahead to the day you get divorced and fight over custody. I know you aren't - just an observation.

I say if in doubt, give them both. My mother-in-law named her son (only son and potential family namebearer) her father's last name and also her married name. Her father was a prominent citizen and local historian and she wanted to carry on his name in her line. So hence, Gary Robert Craighead "Last name". Craighead is still written in his name and he actually goes by the first name Craig. Actually very few people even know his Gary Robert versions - I think is was a surprise to his wife when they got married. I am a traditionalist. I like the woman changing her name and subsequently the children inheriting it.

[Kfamr]

Since they are not a married couple I see NOTHING wrong with giving the baby Ashley's name. Like someone else said, tell her to look at what future she plans on having with this boy. If she does want to continue seeing him, and marrying him, then maybe give the baby his name.

Also, if she does give the baby her name, wouldn't she be able to change it if they do get married? If they do plan to marry, changing the baby's name to his at the same time she does, seems it may be something to sort of make them even more official. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying.. I'm a bit out of it today!

[BOBS DAD]

Whoops,

I guess I did not know the exact circumstances. In which case, disregard my previous contributions and go with whatever seems right under the current circumstances!!!

But yes on the change name thing. Sure you can carry both, one or the other or neither, and legally change at a later date.

[BOBS DAD]

Since they are not a married couple I see NOTHING wrong with giving the baby Ashley's name. Like someone else said, tell her to look at what future she plans on having with this boy. If she does want to continue seeing him, and marrying him, then maybe give the baby his name.

Also, if she does give the baby her name, wouldn't she be able to change it if they do get married? If they do plan to marry, changing the baby's name to his at the same time she does, seems it may be something to sort of make them even more official. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying.. I'm a bit out of it today!

YEAH... what she said!!!

[kimboe]

I voted the dads. That's just the way it is in our family.
But, If the baby is a boy and there is no other child in the mothers family to carry on the maiden name. Then the baby (boy) should pass on the family name.
I think that which ever side already has someone to pass the family name on then it should be the other side to carry on their last name.
Or if both do, Then father's name should be chosen

[Laura's Babies]

Without reading everyone elses responses I voted for the mothers last name because it will just make things easier in the future. Once the baby is here and the newness of it wears off, and the responsiabilities start building up, he is going to be history. He is only there right now because that is what is expected of him but I think it will get old fast.

Should I be wrong and they decide later to get married, all they have to do is a simple name change on the babies birth certificate later.

It will also create a lot of confusion with her having one name and the baby having another and they not being married... Everyone I know in this situation has given the baby the mothers last name.

[Queen of Poop]

My 2cents worth: Give the baby her name as they are not married. If they don't ever get married it will be easier for school, etc. if the child has the same last name as the mother. BUT, if they do get married change the babies last name to that of the husband/father, just like Ashley would likely change her name and use his.

[catnapper]

Ok - who voted to flip a coin!? :D :p

Thanks for the input guys! Please, more people who vote to keep her name, please speak up and offer a pro as to why and maybe some cons as to why his name would not be a good idea; just as people who voted for his last name have done.

[Karen]

Use her name. As they are not married, and have no plans to be right now, the baby is primarily her responsibility. If, at some point, they do decide to get married, Ashley's maiden name can become the child's middle name, perhas, and both Ashley and baby can change their names at the time of the marriage. But as they are both young, and so much of the future is up in the air, I'd go with her last name, and if that upsets the father, well, he can "make it right" when he marries Ashley some day if they choose to do so. If they were bth ten years older than they are now, my opinion might be different, but the situation would be quite different as well.

If, despite his current stated intentions, he ends up having little or no presence in this child's life, trying to explain how her child got his/her last name might be a burden for Ashley, and a source of resentment in the future. If the child and father remain close, the child can choose to adopt the father's last name later, I know of a girl who did the opposite, after her parents went through a horrific, accusatory and bitter divorce, she took her mother's maiden name as her last name, and her mother reverted to her maiden name as well.

The baby having a different last name than its mom causes unfortunate questions and confusion which some people are now used to, but others are not.

[caseysmom]

I say give the baby her name, I think this would be wonderful for your husband since he has two daughters, I mean sort of an advantage for him having a daughter giving birth out of wedlock and look how much her father has been through, he raised them not their mother, how many men do that:?

His name will be passed on, I say pooey on the baby's father....what has he really contributed...sorry but thats how I feel.

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

I think Karen said it best (as usual ;) )

I would recommend that the baby has Ashleys surname because:

- easier from an admin / medical / schooling perspective

- if dad ends up not being very involved, then there will be less reason to have to explain why she and the baby have different surnames (Personal experience - I was Cameron's "Mum" from when he was three years old, but was sick to death of having to explain to people why our surnames were different - it's almost like it gives admin / school / medical people an excuse to be nosey)

- it can always be changed to dad's name later if they do marry

[Lori Jordan]

I feel as if the couple are married then the baby should go by the fathers name,If the couple is together but not married the name should be both which can be changed in any point of time,If the couple is not together i think the baby should have the moms name for sure..jmo

[catnapper]

Karen, you are so eloquent! Ash said that makes for a logical and reasonable answer.... would you care come and give the father that speach if thats what she eventually decides? ;)

Julie, Ash's choices for boy names and Cameron and Connor! :D Since you have the same taste, what girl names can you offer?

[catnapper]

I feel as if the couple are married then the baby should go by the fathers name,If the couple is together but not married the name should be both which can be changed in any point of time,If the couple is not together i think the baby should have the moms name for sure..jmo
Seriously, the names are HORRENDOUS together. No way could we ever do that to a child! :p Hyhenation is out of the question! Not to post our last names, but it'll sound similar to Smiles-Dudjig (or Dudjig-Smiles) Truly awful! :eek:

[Pam]

Without reading everyone elses responses I voted for the mothers last name because it will just make things easier in the future. Once the baby is here and the newness of it wears off, and the responsiabilities start building up, he is going to be history. He is only there right now because that is what is expected of him but I think it will get old fast.

Should I be wrong and they decide later to get married, all they have to do is a simple name change on the babies birth certificate later.

It will also create a lot of confusion with her having one name and the baby having another and they not being married... Everyone I know in this situation has given the baby the mothers last name.

What she said. :)

My daughter's friend in high school was pregnant just like Ash. She went with her own name and it was a good thing. The boy disappeared shortly like a vapor. :rolleyes: Never contributed a dime or a Pamper even. It would have been confusing, at least for her, to explain where the strange last name came from.

[critter crazy]

well all i know is that when my mom had me she was not married and chose to give me her name instead of his!! which in my opinion was the best choice. Of course my father left us soon after i was born so, i am a little bias!

[Karen]

Karen, you are so eloquent! Ash said that makes for a logical and reasonable answer.... would you care come and give the father that speach if thats what she eventually decides? ;)

Absolutely - tell me when and where, and I'll be there if need be!

(And I can be realllllyyy scary/intimidating if I need to be, which hopefully no Pet Talk person will ever, ever need to see!)

[kuhio98]

I guess I'm in the minority. I hope I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, but what I get from the responses is that in order for the baby to have the father's last name, the father has to pass some sort of test.

The baby could have the father's last name if:
He marries the mother
He steps up to the plate
He financially supports the baby
He emotionally supports them

Why are there all these conditions? Does the mother have conditions? Does she have to pass some sort of test for the honor of giving the child her last name? Is not using his last name supposed to be some sort of punishment? If so, why should he be punished? What is he being punished for? Does the mother deserve punishment?

The reality is that he is the biological father. A child needs all the family it can get. Why start off by alienating half of its family? Are we pretending they don't exist? Don't matter? That's kind of silly, isn't it? Why deny reality?

As for it being easier if the child has the mother's last name ~ if she gets married some day and decides to change her name, she and the child will have different last names anyway. Her husband could always adopt the child and change his name. It's all complicated, so taking the mother's name just because it's "easier" isn't a very good reason (in my opinion).

Okay, I'm getting off my soapbox. I've contributed more than my 2 cents (more like 2 dollars!) :p

[lizbud]

If the father has acknowleded paternity & wants any paternal rights/
responsibily for the child, then use the father's name. If not use the
mothers last name.IMO. :)

[jenluckenbach]

I have not voted yet (and might just vote "flip a coin") because I am torn.

My own personal feelings are that unless the father is REALLY and TRULY a part of this baby's life, including all the hard stuff, Mom should be using her own last name. After all, she has already done 9 months of the HARD stuff. And she will more than likely be doing 90% of the hard stuff for quite a while (unless they go move in together somewhere). So YES.......the father is being "punished", in a way.

But I can see how tradition would expect it to be the father's last name.

SO I guess the answer to this question is what would Ahsley feel most comfortable calling her baby? Will she regret NOT using her name? Will she regret having to refer to the baby with a last name of a man who may run away from her? Does she HOPE they will marry and stay together?

If this were my situation and it were my baby, I would choose MY last name. I feel VERY strongly about this. What does Ashley feel VERY STRONGLY about? That is all that matters.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Why does it have to be either? I vote make up a totally different last name. Nothing, except tradition, says it must be one or the other.

And...except at the time of birth, adoption, marriage or divorce (of the individual ....not the child) it can be rather expensive to make a name change....

[flutter]

I'm at a lost I know that no matter what the baby's father will be in the baby's life even if we aren't together. The father and I have talked about that already (it wasn't a good talk because he did get upset and ask my why I thought we wouldn't be together). I really don't know what to do part of me wants to keep my last name because it would be easier but not because of custody battle because everyone know that the father has like a 10% chance in winnng even if it would has his last name. The other part of me say the baby should have his last name because it is his baby too and he is going to be a part of the baby's life. He just got a full time job (so that should show to everyone that he is trying) and I know that he hasn't bought anything for the baby yet thats just because he know that he will have to pay half the medical bills for me which he understands and is willing to do and plus right now we don't ready need anything we have enought baby care products for the first 3 month so when we start to get low he understands that he will have to buy diaper and the essentials. ok I have bought a lot of clothing for the baby but thats because I can't help it I like to shop and it not worth shopping for me now because I have a baby on the way. So I would rather shop for the baby. I know that there is something that he is going to buy the baby that he really want to buy which is sorta expensive but he has to wait till it born because its sorta a boy or girl item (of course it has to do with football and favorite teams).

[Cataholic]

Having experienced first hand this situation, give the baby your last name. There are some other 'suggestions' that I would give you, too, from a legal perspective, but, will save those for a pm, if you so want to know. ;)

[caseysmom]

Ashley, I am glad he wants to be in the baby's life, you have a good support system with Dad and Kim but your Baby will only benefit from a fathers love. I didn't mean to sound harsh toward him, you must have strong feeling for him, you have created life together. He is a young man and as most young men probably has some growing up to do and most likely will be a great Dad, I wish you all the best.

[AbbyMom]

The baby could have the father's last name if:
He marries the mother
He steps up to the plate
He financially supports the baby
He emotionally supports them

Why are there all these conditions? Does the mother have conditions? Does she have to pass some sort of test for the honor of giving the child her last name? Is not using his last name supposed to be some sort of punishment? If so, why should he be punished? What is he being punished for? Does the mother deserve punishment?

The reality is that he is the biological father. A child needs all the family it can get.


These are good questions. After reading through the posts, I'm guessing that these conditions are merely ways to help decide a difficult question that has no clear answer. When she does decide, I hope she can honestly say she's choosing what's best for the child, not making a statement or a public judgement.

I think maybe some people believe that using the father's name is an honor that he hasn't quite earned yet, not a punishment for what he has or has not done.

Yes, he is the bio father and the child needs all the family it can get. But, IMO, I don't believe that this name decision will increase or decrease family. Family relationships come from love/responsibility...not naming conventions. JMO.




.

[Karen]

I never meant that not using his last name is a punishment. I just have seen so many people in her situation, or who have been in her situation and are dealing with the aftermaths later.

It is the sad but honest truth that very few people I know who were couples at her age are still together. This includes couple with and without children. People change so much in the next few years of their life, from 18-25 at least, with college, dealing with jobs, being away from your parents, making that break and figuring out who you are and who you want to be as a person that couple after couple either seemed to "grow apart" or break apart leaving one at least wounded.

I do not wish that on you, Ashley, I do wish you all the best, and stand by my original reasons.

And, by the way, I have one married friend whose two children have her last name, which she kept when she got married. Their Daddy's name is their middle name. The children were born after the pair were married, it is just a decision that couple came to, as the Mom felt strongly about her less-common last name than the Dad did about his pretty common one.

[Suki Wingy]

My oppinion is that she use her own last name for the baby. BUT, it is up to her to decide what's best in the long run.

Is not using his last name supposed to be some sort of punishment? If so, why should he be punished? What is he being punished for? Does the mother deserve punishment?
No, silly! Punishment? :) I know this doesn't directly apply but... My dad and stepmom are seriously going to alternamte last names. They have one child with my dad's (and my) last name, and if they have another, the child will have my step-mom's last name. In my family (both sides) the women don't usually change their "maiden" names and they give their children the father's last name and their last name as a middle name. For example, my sisters and I all have the same middle name (my mom's last name) and our father's last name.

[shais_mom]

I have a couple of friends who have been in Ashley's boat and they have given their child (both boys) their last name. In each case they came from a family with 3 girls so no one was going to carry on their dad's bloodline, so they chose their last name. And they - who have no relationship with the dad of the child either- stand behind their decision and have no regrets.
One of my friends is the only adopted daughter of her parents - they had 2 biological daughters after they adopted her when they were told they couldn't get pregnant I think that is the best gift of all to give her child HER last name in a case like that.
That said I understand that Ashley's situation is different b/c she has brothers.

[moosmom]

Ashley on the other hand says he gets insulted and feels left out of all the baby stuff. She says he wants to be a part of it and got very hurt on Sunday at the shower when everyone was oohhhing and aahhhing over her and the baby, and basically ignored him.

He sounds VERY immature to me. Does he not understand that it's not about HIM, it's about the baby??? What's gonna happen when the baby is born? Is he going to get jealous because not enough attention is being paid to him??? He sounds like a real piece of work.

When the baby is born, is his name going on the birth certificate?? At the risk of sounding crude, "daddy" was simply a sperm donor, nothing more. I say give the baby HER last name with his last name in the middle. Maybe that'll be more of a compromise. Or, if it's a weird last name, just give the baby the first initial of his last name as her middle name. Kinda covers all the bases.

That's a toughie.

[Craftlady]

Mom's name.
Unless legal papers have been made stating his intentions to support financially, he has no right in my mind to have this child bear his last name. Also, my advise seek legal advise making sure there is no surprises once this child is born.

[jenluckenbach]

The more I read and the more I think about it the MORE I go with my first instinct. HER last name.

I may not have any real info, legal or otherwise, but my gut tells me that is the proper thing to do.

Then when she DOES marry, who ever becomes her husband can decide to become the adoptive father and give the baby his last name (if that is the choice at the time).

[Rachel]

My 2cents worth: Give the baby her name as they are not married. If they don't ever get married it will be easier for school, etc. if the child has the same last name as the mother. BUT, if they do get married change the babies last name to that of the husband/father, just like Ashley would likely change her name and use his.

This is my thinking as well.

[Edwina's Secretary]

At the risk of sounding crude, "daddy" was simply a sperm donor, nothing more.

But...doesn't that make momma a sperm receiver....nothing more????

Poor guy....poor momma, poor child....

[Lobodeb]

I voted for the mom's name. If daddy really wants to be involved in his child's life, then he can adopt him/her at a later time.

[Sevaede]

I voted for the mothers last name. My biological parents weren't married, heck, they never even last through the pregnancy, and I received her maiden name. That's not why I voted for her name though. I voted fem because I believe that there should be more reasons behind the name chosen, I see nothing wrong with giving the baby her name, and I don't think he/she should have the fathers name solely because "that's the way it's always been.".

In any case, good luck and vibes to Ash and ze baby! :D

[Ally Cat's Mommy]

KJulie, Ash's choices for boy names and Cameron and Connor! :D Since you have the same taste, what girl names can you offer?

LOL Kim - I actually thought that when I read the post where you said you liked Connor as a boys name - I LOVE it!

Although I love my darling daughter's name - Calista Shannon - it was not my first choice - rather it was the only name on both MY list and Warren's list which we both loved.

My choices were:

Keira Jade
and
Raewyn Jade

(BOTH of which sound awesome with your surname IMHO :D ;) )

I also LOVE Caitlyn but:
- it is becoming a bit "over used" and
- I already have a step-daughter called Caitlynn, so it was not an option!

[carole]

I also love the name caitlynn, but spelt katelynn, I agree with the majority here, give the baby Ashley's surname.

[shais_mom]

But...doesn't that make momma a sperm receiver....nothing more????

Poor guy....poor momma, poor child....

I have to agree here - calling "daddy" a sperm donor while Ashley is in a relationship with him is a bit harsh. He may be immature and not ideal but he is with her now. It'd be different if he was long gone. That said - I still firmly believe the baby should have Ashley's last name.
A co-worker of mine - her sister had a baby with a guy that she was dating at the time. When she had him he visited her in the hospital pushing her to name the baby after HIS dead father. When she agreed to name the baby after his dead father AND give the baby his last name he left her there and didn't even come pick her up when she was discharged. He also supposedly has at least 1 maybe 2 other children that are girls but he was all interested in this one b/c it was a boy.