Absolute morons!

[catnapper]

I love my job as a dog trainer, however the manager is a sleeze. He's been making sexually based comments and such to all the females, and all of us just cringe when he says stuff. So I called the higher-ups to file a complaint. They said they'd be in the store this afternoon and for me to stop by and talk to them (gee THAT'S not obvious) ok, so I did it anyway. I covered up my conversation very nicely by talking predominantly about dog training and how to get more people to sign up for classes. I breathed a big sigh of relief thinking that it was done quietly and nobody would be the wiser for me mentioning anything.

But, noooooo the MORON then left our "meeting" and ran around the store asking EVERYONE what they thought about the manager. Of course then two coworkers ran up to me while I was in the checkout (buying more kitty litter of course) and asked me WHAT I said about the manager to the higher-up guy.

OMG -- I am totally shocked he could be that stupid to ask everyone the moment I left his presence!!! WHY THE HECK DIDN'T HE WAIT?!?!?!? I mean, he could have waited a few days before returning and asking. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!! :mad:

So now, by the time I return for my 5:00 shift, EVERYONE will want to know what I said to the guy! Ugh, I'm dreading the inquisition now. I'm dreading what others will be saying and dreading what my manager will do back to me!

[Donnaj4962]

I know that you are concerned about repurcussions, but know that you did the ABSOLUTE right thing! There is no tolerance for sexual harrassment. I know that things will be uncomfortable to say the least!) for a while, but you need to hold your head high and know that what you did was correct!

I am sorry that you are going through such a terrible thing. I have been through it myself in the past, and it was hard for me to do, but I am glad that I did it. Good luck.

[Donnaj4962]

Oh, and YES.... that "higher up" does sound like a moron!

He should go through some management training with some focus on how to deal with sexual harassment issues in the store!

[catnapper]

I know I did the right thing. I always regreted not doing it at my last job when I was being harassed. I think that now its not just me and EVERYONE, and being that I love this job so much, I was compelled to report it before it got so bad that I hated going in to work every day.

All that said, I know if he knows it was me, that he'll make my life a living h3ll.

[moosmom]

Whatever you said to the higher up SHOULD'VE been confidential. I'd file a complaint against THAT idiot too!!

There are sexual harassment laws in this country. You did the right thing by filing a complaint. He was breaking the law, the pig!! :mad:

[critter crazy]

I had the same type of problem!!! I was in the army for 10 years and one of my officers decided it was appropriate to grab my ass in formation one day!! I was so furious so i went to the Inspector Generals office and filed a complaint!! next thin i know i am getting phonecalls at work from his buddies telling me to drop the charges!!! needless to say i did not!! come to find out there had bee numerous young females having the same problems!! and on top of it someone say him in the parking lot drinking before the incident!!! so he was demoted and sent to an all male infantry unit!!

you did the right thing, dont let anyone tell you differently!!!!!

[Edwina's Secretary]

I hate to interject some reality here....but the higher ups could NOT be confidential. Once you have told them of a complaint of sexual harassment they MUST investigate immediately. They cannot offer you confidentiality. How are they to investigate?

If they do not investigate IMMEDIATELY they become personally liable for knowing and not doing anything.

Of course a manager should do what he/she can to limit the exposure of the complainant. And cannot retaliate or permit retaliation because of your complaint.

But wasn't the purpose you told them to have something done? And you are unhappy they started to do something too fast?

[Laura's Babies]

I had a simalar thing happen to me on a boat I worked on with the engineer. No matter WHO was talking or what the conversation, he would come in and change the topic to sex! It made not only me uncomfortable but everyone he did it to. But he did target me and ask personal sexually explicit questions or or sexual comments. I bough a pocket size tape recorder and was fixing to nail his a*s to the wall by getting him on tape and NOBODY could shove it under the rug. Before I made the next trip with him, the transfer I had asked for a year prior came through and I was transferred off that boat. About a year after I left that boat, I got a call from human resources asking me didn't I use to ride with him and what I thought of him. I was BRUTALLY honest and quickly answered I thought he was a dirty minded OLD MAN! I was asked to tell what he had done or said to me and I repeted everything, incident by incident. The kicker to that whole conversation was as it ended, HR asked me "Is there anything you might have said or done that caused this to happen?"...LOL! I got him there and answered "Well SURE! I came to that boat and that is why I was fair game to him"...

A few days later he was FIRED! Sad thing was, that he was a 60 something year old creep that was married to a BEAUTIFUL 35 year old woman... Go figure :rolleyes: !

Tomorrow or whenever you have to go back to work and everyone asks what you said, I would look at them and say "I thought it was YOU that told on him!".

[Oggyflute]

Of course the situation had to be investigated. But the issue was how it was done. These complaints are supposed to be kept in confidence as much as possible. There will come a time though when action would have to be taken. The point is, the person making such a complaint, must be kept in an environment that doesn't get worse whilst the investigation takes place. I've had to deal with a few of these in the past, I think the fellow who was investigating show little tack, and was obviously unprepared to deal with an issue as important as this.
I'm glad you spoke up though mate. This situation shopuld NEVER be tolerated.

[Edwina's Secretary]

She did not say they said ANYTHING to ANYONE.... I have been teaching managers how to handle sexual harassment for years. They should tell an employee that it is IMPOSSIBLE to investigate with confidentiality. IMPOSSIBLE! How are you suppose to ask...."did you see So and so touch Who and forth?" if you are keeping Who and forth's name confidential???

Sorry....but this is how I make my living and people's expectations of confidentiality can be very frustrating.

Her complaint was that he began investigating as soon as she left the office. That is the correct thing to do. If she had told them she had seen the manager stealing from the cash register should they wait a few days to investigate?

There is NOTHING absolutely moronic about a manager immediately investigating an allegation of a serious breach of company policy.

And if these managers had waited a few days and something had happened in the meanwhile....not only would THAT be moronic but those managers could be personally sued for breach of duty.

Furthermore, as with a teacher accused of inappropriate behavior with a student, at some point the accused has a right to know who the accuser is.

Let me be perfectly clear, I am not excusing the inappropriate behavior. I have seen enough of it in my career. I take offense to calling a manager who immediately investigating the accusation an absolute moron. Or accuse him/her of violating confidence because of assumptions other employees may make.

[Cataholic]

As a lawyer that handles discrimination suits, from both the employer's AND employee's 'side', I can only echo Edwina's Secretary's comments.

Once an employer is 'on notice' of a claim of discrim/harrassment, that employer MUST act quickly, and with purpose. Anything else and the company becomes the offender, in a manner of speaking.

[catnapper]

But folks, I filed my complaints TWO WEEKS ago. I verbally talked about it over the phone. They wanted to speak to me in person, so I did. Why did they not begin the investigation TWO WEEKS AGO then? Why not start this morning when they got to the store at 9:00 and ask around BEFORE I walked my butt into the store at 2:00? No, they waited to begin asking questions directly after I spoke to them. and trust me, the in-person conversation was two seconds long while the over the phone conversations (yes, multiple conversations) were a whole lot longer.

To me, waiting between my phone calls and meeting me in person was WRONG because they never took action. They had two weeks to act upon it and did not. Are verbal complaints not taken as seriously as face to face complaints?

And what my manager did was nothing limited to me. He makes sexual comments to every woman in the store, even the rescues have commented on his comments. Anyone could have approached the higher-ups about his innapropriate comments... yet its readily apparent I'm the one who came forward. I came forward knowing it was likely I'd be "outed" but I didn't expect the guy handling it being so obvious. Its honestly like a bull in a china store -- bounding and bumbling through everything.

[Edwina's Secretary]

How do you know they didn't do anything during the two weeks since you called?

Furthermore.... waiting two weeks was wrong so you wanted them to wait a few more days?????

[Laura's Babies]

I think the smart thing for the company to have done after talking to you on the phone was to have transferred him to another store until they had time to talk to everyone at your store and see if he repeted this behavior someplace else. All they needed was someone else to confirm that he does do that and it sounds like you have a pile of people to back you up. THEN, they could say to him that they have recieved numberous complaints from the employees without having to give anyones name to anyone... same with the investigator... All they have to have said was that "We have recieved a complaint and need to know if he has said or done anything like this with you".. Like my Human Resource person did when he called me. To keep it confidential, they could have called them and did it over the phone, LIKE my HR did with ME! My HR officer even asked me if I knew anyone else he had done this too or anyone else who had worked with him. It WAS handled confidentially, I do not have any idea who filed the orginal complaint or who else they talked to before they fired him.

Of coarse the idiot will deny he did these things but all they have to do is tell him they have X number of women who are READY and willing to go to court and testify should it get that far. That engineer left our company with his tail ducked between his legs and I would love to know how he explained it to his wife!

[Edwina's Secretary]

Transferring him to another store to see if it happened there too? That increases the company's exposure IF he is a sexual harasser. Not a good idea.

In-person interviews are far better than over the phone but again....Catnapper does not know with whom they have or haven't spoken since she called. Or who may have called before she did.

I have looked people in the beady eyes and fired them for HORRIBLE behavior. I have learned expression that I would have been happier not knowing.

But the accused has a right to know the accusation and the accusers at some point in the process. As Catnapper knows from personal experience with her husband, sometimes these accusations can be wrong or get out of hand.

I saw a man get a written reprimand for flipping the hair of a woman he had worked with for 20 years. SHE did not complain. A fellow worker (male) complained to get the boss in trouble. The woman told the investigator the boss was more like a brother to her than her own and she had no complaint. Nonetheless the manager had to be written up.

I could tell you the story of a man who committed suicide during an investigation of sexual harassment. There were three guys accused. The woman (as one of the judges said) was a willing participant and at times an instigator of what went on. Nonetheless, when she said stop....it didn't. But of the three, he was, in my opinion, the least guilty. I, too often imagine going home and telling the family. But imagine if it isn't really true? And there are already problems, etc.

There are three sides to every story....his, hers and the truth. I object to someone being called an absolute moron because he/she did his/her job. Investigating a complaint of sexual harassment. And it is a difficult and unpleasant job.

I am often in the position of the absolute moron. I cannot share information with employees without violating confidence or good practices. I still have to do the job I am paid to do and do it correctly. Does that make me STUPID, STUPID, STUPID?

I am saying that when the manager left the meeting and talked with other employees (it has not been said that he stated "Catnapper told me") he was not being STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. He was doing his job....correctly.

She may have felt uncomfortable but that does NOT make the investigator an absolute moron.

[catnapper]

As a matter of fact, I spoke to the one manager this afternoon, the one who gave me the higher-up guy's number. She knows all about my complaint and urged me to file the complaint in the first place. Anyway, she spoke to the higher-up on Friday and he told her that he had not done ANYTHING because he claimed I was not returning his phone calls --- that's utter bull! I answered every call and question he gave me!

I don't know what to think anymore. I'll just see how everything plays out from here on out. I will try to be patient and understand that there are proper protocals to take. Problem is, this is NOT playing out like they said it would in the training videos that we all sat through. In the videos they had a whole different story as to how things would happen. Why tell people one thing and do another? Perhaps because the reality would scare everyone away from coming forward. As it is, nobody wants to come forward in my store. They are all too scared that he'll make their lives pure heck for snitching on him.

Anyway, I truly do appreciate the point of view ES and cataholic have given me. It has helped me a lot.

[Rachel]

I'm kind of curious if you had ever indicated directly to the perpetrator that you considered his comments to be out of line and inappropriate in a work setting, and that his comments make you and others extremely uncomfortable. This can be done in a calm and professional manner. Yes, we all want to *get along* with the boss, but this is one of those situations where immediately showing where we stand on certain actions may avoid the continuation of same. These guys know that they are treading on dangerous territory, but if no one calls them on it....they think that they can get away with it.