Anyone else feed an all RAW diet?

[PinkSunshine]

All 3 of my dogs are now on an all RAW diet (just switched my female yorkie over last month) and can not rave enough about my decision. Prior to getting our first dog (2 years ago) I reseached dog foods for almost a year. It's quite a bit of work and time (especially feeding a giant breed) but it's made such a difference... Anyone else feed raw?

[Giselle]

I do I do! What's the predominant style that you feed? I love chatting about this, so I'm ecstatic to see another fellow raw feeder.

[.sarah]

I feed raw, prey model style. I'd go insane if I fed Billinghurst's way ... all that grinding.

It's not a lot of work for me, I just take the food out of the freezer and let it thaw and then feed it. I do a lot of hand washing, but that's not a bad thing. Other than that, it's really very simple. Nothing like pouring kibble into a bowl, but still not bad. My dogs have benefited from it. Mandy and Nova no longer need their joint supplements to be comfortable and Buck is growing a lot slower than his littermates. They all enjoy meal time much more too.

[Glacier]

It's not a lot of work for me, I just take the food out of the freezer and let it thaw and then feed it. .

Just curious, but is there a reason you thaw the food?

I don't feed an exclusively raw diet, but the dogs eat alot of wild game and fish.

[BC_MoM]

Buck is growing a lot slower than his littermates.

This is a sincere question:

Is that a good or a bad thing? And why?


I've never fed raw before.. and I have no idea what the pros and cons are. I know my parents would never let me do it. It's not something I've ever really taken into consideration (not because I don't agree with it, I know nothing about it!)..

[Jessika]

I don't have the knowledge or research to do it just yet. I want to make sure if/when I do, my dogs are getting ALL nutrients needed. But I am also waiting for there to be more research on this diet than is currently available (long term effects, etc). It seems to be a relatively new thing that has recently exploded on the "pet" scene, and I just want to wait until I get everything straight (at least in my mind!) before even attempting, if that makes sense!

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

This is a sincere question:

Is that a good or a bad thing? And why?


It is a GREAT thing that Buck is growing nice and slowly. Large and giant breed puppies that eat a higher protein diet (which raw is mostly water - I found out from Sarah!) results in more rapid growth, and thus more developmental problems, such as canine hip displaysia, panosteitis, osteochondrosis dessicans, and wobblers syndrome.

I found the following from - Canada's Guide to Dogs (www.canadasguidetodogs.com)

"Excessive growth rates lead to an increase in both muscle mass and total body weight. These in turn lead to excessive stress forces on long bones which, in a puppy, are less dense and have a greater susceptibility to being remodelled. As bones of large breeds are relatively weaker than those of small breeds, they are inherently more susceptible to these stress loads."

Hope that makes sense! :D

[Ravette]

Example of what you feed them and how much? I've always been interested in feeding my dogs an all natural diet but I'm not really sure I can afford it. Do you find it cheaper or more expensive?

[.sarah]

Just curious, but is there a reason you thaw the food?Mandy doesn't like it frozen, and Nova and Luka prefer it thawed or semi-frozen, so I just go ahead and thaw it (partially or completely) in the fridge over a day or mores time, depending on the size of the package.


It is a GREAT thing that Buck is growing nice and slowly.
Thanks for explaining it for me :D


If anyone is interested I can provide a lot of links to raw websites. My favorite though is a yahoo group that I lurked on for 3 months gathering information before I decided to switch my girls from kibble. They also helped me in getting Buck on raw because I was worried about the protein (raw actually only has about 18% protein compared to the 26% in the kibble I was going to feed him) and the calcium (extra calcium is excreted in their poop - and because of the calcium their poops turn white and powdery and dissapears quickly! :D). I'm not sure if I can post the websites on here or not :confused: I don't think it's against the rules, anyone know for sure?

[.sarah]

Example of what you feed them and how much? I've always been interested in feeding my dogs an all natural diet but I'm not really sure I can afford it. Do you find it cheaper or more expensive?
I feed a lot of variety. Chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, rabbit (but not to Mandy, she hates rabbit :(), etc.

Chicken - Usually I buy chicken quarters, chicken backs, and chicken necks, sometimes legs but usually the quarters are more of a bargain so I stick to those. Buck is currently on chicken legs though simply because I like to feed him twice a day since his stomach is small and a quarter is a meal for a day. I usually avoid wings because there is not enough meat on them, and for large dogs they can be a choking hazzard. However I bought some whole chickens the other day and Buck got the wings since he is still small and still a very slooooow and careful eater. ;)

Beef - Most of the beef I buy is boneless, because thier bones are so hard and usually aren't consumed by dogs (however Nova and Mandy will eat them if given enough time, it's funny Luka doesn't since she's my gulper). I give beef ribs as a recreational RMB (raw meaty bone), they take a long time to eat. If I could find them in a rack I would feed them as a meal, but I haven't had such luck yet. I feed beef neck bones to the dogs the other day and they were another recreational bone but these were a bit thinner so the girls managed to eat most of it. Buck had a hard time even getting the meat off so I thawed some boneless for him for tomorrow.

Pork - I give mostly pork neck bones, along with some boneless meat (of any kind) because the necks I find tend to be bony. My mom found some with a good deal of meat on them at Albertsons last week, and I have those in the freezer. I do have some pigs feet (hooves off) that I'll probably feed soon. Pork bones are incredibly soft. I like to feel the marrow of the bones (if it's visible) in any bones I feed, mostly out of curiosity (I love anatomy :p) but also to make sure that they can eat it safely.

Turkey - I mostly feed turkey necks and drumsticks. They don't get much turkey because chicken is cheaper and poultry shouldn't be too much of a staple in their diet (wolves feed mostly on hooved animals).

Lamb - Fed in moderation because it is really expensive.

Rabbit - I buy them whole for the Labbies (Mandy doesn't like it very much). It's enough food for over a day so they get a few light meals after they have a rabbit as I don't like to take away food I've already put down for them, and I don't want to cut it in half. Also fed in moderation because of the price.

Organs - Mostly I use chicken liver, chicken gizzards, and beef liver. When I buy chickens whole they include the heart as well, but I have had a really tough time finding heart of any animal. I'd like to feed more organ variety but this is all I've found so far. There is another butcher here that I haven't visited though.

Anything else - feed anything you can find! If you're worried about bones then just buy it boneless, or you can always cut the meat off or smash the bones. Some people with small dogs, cats, and other small animals (hens, ferrets, etc.) feed whole rats even!

------------------------------------

The ratios for raw feeding is supposed to be something like 10-15% bone, 5-10% organ meat and 80% meat. That is what overwhelmed me at first ... I was like, math while feeding my dogs? No way! You're also supposed to feed 2-3% of their body weight. I spent the first few days with a pen and paper and a scale making sure everything was perfect. I then went to the yahoo group and read through some posts and saw that this is just a guideline, it doesn't have to be perfect! You can eventually look at a piece of meat and say "this is exactly Mandy's portion" and you also just start looking at the cut and saying, "this is a very bony meal so the next meal should be boneless".

I also don't worry about variety on a daily basis. If I decide to thaw out a huge bag of chicken quarters (which is thawing now actually) then they will eat that for a few days. The next time around I just thaw something different. I used to thaw 3-4 meats at a time and feed a variety for every meal, but it's not neccessary. You just need to worry about variety over time, not day by day.

So far the raw has been cheaper than kibble! I just stick to stuff under .99/pound. Anything over that is skipped over until a sale comes up. If it's a cut that is always expensive (rabbit, lamb, fish) then I will buy it once a month, twice max.

[.sarah]

But I am also waiting for there to be more research on this diet than is currently available (long term effects, etc). It seems to be a relatively new thing that has recently exploded on the "pet" scene, and I just want to wait until I get everything straight (at least in my mind!) before even attempting, if that makes sense!
It makes sense, but I can help you with the "research" area if you'd like. As far as studies go, I'm not sure there are any, but at the same time there are studies showing that "Dog Chow, if fed properly over the course of a dogs life, can help add up to 2 healthy years", and I know you wouldn't feed Purina!

The proof you need is right in their mouth - their teeth. They have teeth for ripping and grinding meat and crushing bones. Not one tooth in their mouth is made especially for kibble, and there is definetly no teeth that grind grains.

If you absolutely want studies, then the ones you need are the ones that prove that dogs are very closely related to wolves. They share the same teeth, digestive tract, and 98% (I believe) of the same DNA. Wolves and dogs are carnivores, not omnivores like a lot of pet food companies like to boast.

There are thousands of people on the Yahoo group that I am a member of. Most are new to raw because, you're right, this does seem to be a new "fad" in the dog feeding world (and a cool one might I add ;)). However there are several people who have been feeding for years. There are several people who have watched their cancer-ridden dogs become cancer free. There are several who watched their dog's teeth go from riddled with tarter and stinky breath to pearly white and fresh breath. The benefits outweigh the risks by far. (Oh and just as a disclaimer, it isn't a miracle cure for diseases, and they stress that on the list, but there are quite a few diseases that are onsetted by poor diet and can be fixed by feeding them raw.)

I am having way to much fun with this thread :p

[Ravette]

Thank you that was VERY helpful. I even printed it out. I highly doubt I can talk my parents into feeding them raw at the moment but when I move out I plan on trying it. I was talking to a vet when I took my dog for his ear mites and well he was telling me that I should put Jared on a natural food diet but his was much different. We wanted me to do 75% meat,bone,organ and 25% rice/wheat/grain type foods. He also told me that I should fee them corn. I think I have a very bad vet lmao! Every single dog I have every had has broken out with hot spots if fed corn. I told him this and he told me I was buying cheap dog food and thats why it happened. *rolls eyes* Riggghhhhttt. How could that be true when the dog food has no corn product but was given some left overcorn to eat and broke put? pfft lmao!

We are raising bigs for buther this year and I'll have to make sure I ask for all the extras to feed my doggies. We buy the beef bones from supermarket sometimes and my golden will naw off the big knuckle in one day but I've noticed that he seems a bit more energized when he eats them.

I wonder if it would help my pitbull put on weight? I have a really hard time keeping weight on her because she is so active. The vet wants her to gain 5lbs but since we started agility she has lost 1.5 :/ .

edit: Just found a book on it that might come in handy!!
RAW DOG FOOD: MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU AND YOUR DOG
by Carina Beth MacDonald

[BC_MoM]

and I know you wouldn't feed Purina!

Hey.. I take offense to that! :( I feed Purina One to my dogs and they do great on it.. better than when they were on Canidae!

This RAW thing really interests me.. could you PM the links that you were going to post?

Like Jess, though, I want to know the long term effects..

[.sarah]

Hey.. I take offense to that! :( I feed Purina One to my dogs and they do great on it.. better than when they were on Canidae!
When I said "you" I was talking directly to Jessica, because I know she doesn't like Purina. I know that other people do. No need to take offense.

I'll PM you the links in a sec.

[dab_20]

I've never fed raw before.. and I have no idea what the pros and cons are. I know my parents would never let me do it. It's not something I've ever really taken into consideration (not because I don't agree with it, I know nothing about it!)..

Same with me.

[lv4dogs]

I used to feed raw and LOVED it, my finances & freezer space got the best of me though. Hopefully in the near future they will be started back up on it and I can not wait for that day to come!

[dab_20]

Will feeding raw make them healthier and live longer? I'd really like to start when I move out, depending on if I go to college right away. Molli and Sam will only be around 5 years old by then.

[BC_MoM]

Do they eat in one sitting?? Because I don't want meat laying around my house all day..

Also.. is blood an issue? I don't want blood all over my dogs or the house! lol

[.sarah]

Will feeding raw make them healthier and live longer? I'd really like to start when I move out, depending on if I go to college right away. Molli and Sam will only be around 5 years old by then.
In most cases they will become healthier in one aspect or another. They are getting much better nutrition and their body is able to use more of their food (and that means less poo poo :D). Living longer is never for certain. You never know how long your dog will live while on kibble or on raw, since you don't have a clone and can't feed one each ;)

Mandy's benefits - Her arthritis pain has subsided for the most part. A couple weeks ago she had a few days where I thought she was getting worse, but she had been sleeping with my parents in their bed (believe it or not the dogs have a better bed then they do :D) and I think that was the source of the problem. She's been fine since she got back to sleeping on her orthopedic bed. She's also lost 2 lbs, and I have been trying for over a year to get 5 lbs off of her.

Nova's benefits - I have noticed an increased energy level. She is fine now without her supplements (she has hip and elbow dysplasia) but I still give them mostly to help prevent things from happening. She's lost 3 lbs. She didn't need to lose any, but I wanted her to so there would be less pressure on her joints. She's at a really good weight now but could lose even more and still be healthy.

Luka's benefits - There hasn't been much of a change for her. She seems about the same except now instead of running to her kennel for meal time she runs to the door :D

Buck's benefits - he's growing slower than his littermates. The smallest in the litter has gotten bigger than him just in the 2 weeks that they've been at their new homes.

[.sarah]

Do they eat in one sitting?? Because I don't want meat laying around my house all day..

Also.. is blood an issue? I don't want blood all over my dogs or the house! lol
My dogs eat in one sitting. They wouldn't leave their meal for nothing. I try to feed two meals a day if possible but sometimes they just get one meal around the middle of the day. Mandy did turn her nose up at rabbit and I just picked it back up and put it in the fridge and she didn't eat that time. Come next meal time I put it back out for her. She didn't eat it again. So for the next meal I gave her chicken and fed the rabbit to Nova and Luka.

I feed the dogs outside. I haven't had a problem with blood yet. It's usually absorbed pretty well in those things in the bottom of the packages. The livers I buy are kept in blood though and I just use a fork and pull them out of the container, leaving the blood behind. Blood is actually good for the dogs, and some people buy it by itself to feed (I don't think you can do that in the US though :confused: ), but I haven't gotten used the image of my dogs drinking blood just yet ;)

[Glacier]

Mandy doesn't like it frozen, and Nova and Luka prefer it thawed or semi-frozen, so I just go ahead and thaw it (partially or completely) in the fridge over a day or mores time, depending on the size of the package.


Ah, you're well trained! :p I was just curious as I never thaw it! I'm just not that organized in the mornings. I just feed the meat frozen!

[.sarah]

Ah, you're well trained! :p
Lol :D I don't mind though. I have my own special section in the fridge for all of my vegetarian stuff, and it's filled with meats :p

[Ravette]

I am soooo sold on feeding raw!! I stayed up until 3 am researching and it has so many positive rewards that its worth trying. I know I won't be able to talk my parents into it though :( I'm looking forward to getting a job lmao!

[cali]

Raw feeder here, I feed based on billinghurst BEFORE any of the grinding buisness came about, I have no idea where that came from, I have met billinghurst in person, I have only resently heard that he likes everything ground? veggies need to be pulped so the dogs can get the nutrients but thats all, everything else is whole. there diet is mostly meat, bones, and organ meats, we dont give them pulped veggies everyday anymore, mostly just because of lack of time lol I love it, I will never go back to kibble, the dogs are so much better off on Raw, the effects ware even long lasting, I mean Shadow was on kibble and threw up at least once a day(on purina one, it was the only thing she could eat without throwing up 5 times a day-litterally) she was so arthritic she could no longer stand up etc.. she was switched to raw and all of it cleared up, no more throwing up, and NO signs of arthritus, when she went to her new hom she went back on kibble..and to my shock it did NOT cause her to start throwing up again, she has been on kibble of 2 years now, and her arthritus has not come back, she will be 10 years old in june, and her coat is still pure black and she still has plenty of energy, her current brother however who has been on kibble his whole life is slowing down and going grey at 5 years.

[k9krazee]

Wow Sarah, I'm impressed :D Very helpful info!!!

I'm very interested in feeding raw, my parents aren't too keen on the idea...yet ;) It took them long enough to allow me to switch the gang from Iams to Nutro, lol.

[lv4dogs]

Sarah, I want to say what a great person you are, to not force your beliefs on an animal that is a carnivore. Kudos to you sweetie! Gots to love people like you! :)

[PinkSunshine]

Wow this thread sure has taken off :D

I feed all 3 of my babies pretty close to what Sarah described. I feed frozen as well, but my 3 get fed outside - always - since it takes a while for them to eat a meal and I don't want meat 'parts' thrown around my house. Pork and chicken are my 2 biggest meat ingredients, although when my fiance goes hunting, they get game as well. I do feed fish quite a lot as well.

When going over nutrition requirements with 2 different vets, I decided to add in a few different oils to their meals. Dozer's coat/skin has improved VASTLY since he was switched over to an all raw diet at 6 months old. He used to have such dry/flaky skin but now his coat is in excellent condition.

As far as cost/time goes, I do spend quite a lot of time feeding this way. I usually end up spending 3-4 hours Monday nights getting their meals ready for the week. I work and go to college, so I make sure I have the week planned out for them. I do a lot of hand washing as well ;)

Cost is about the same as if we were feeding dog kibble. Dozer is a huge guy and eats a lot. The last time he ate dog kibble was at 6 months old, so I can't really compare what he eats now to what it would be in dog kibble, but it's not cheap to feed him, in the least. My 2 yorkies eat much less, and I'd compare what they eat to about as much as it'd cost in kibble...

[CathyBogart]

When I get my dog I will feed raw. I joined the Livejournal Rawdogs group thanks to a post made on PT and I am hooked on the idea!

[.sarah]

I am soooo sold on feeding raw!! I stayed up until 3 am researching and it has so many positive rewards that its worth trying. I know I won't be able to talk my parents into it though :( I'm looking forward to getting a job lmao!
That is great! :D

Wow Sarah, I'm impressed :D Very helpful info!!!
lol, I really made sure I knew what I was doing before I switched. ;)

Sarah, I want to say what a great person you are, to not force your beliefs on an animal that is a carnivore. Kudos to you sweetie! Gots to love people like you! :)
Thank you!! :D That is so nice. :)

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

I don't feed a raw diet, my parents would never go for that. When I get my Toller though I'd love to start feeding her and Tango raw as that is what my breeder and other Toller breeders reccommend for the breed. Tango will be about 5 years old or so by the time comes, will I be able to switch her to a raw diet after having been a kibble fed dog for so long already?? Sarah, would you mind PMing me the links that you have? Even though I won't be getting a Toller for about 2 years, I'd like to start researching this now so that I don't have to quickly learn how to feed raw right before I get my pup... :)

[.sarah]

Sure, I'll PM the links in a second. Mandy was 8 when I switched her and she is fine. It's never too late :)

[Giselle]

Actually, I don't like feeding pork. I just feel that the benefits of pork can be found in other more wholesome protein sources. I also remember something about pork skin that causes pancreatitis or something...I know bacon can contribute to the development of pancreatitis, but I'm positive I heard something negative about raw pork as well. At any rate, Sarah seemed to cover most of it :p

The switch from kibble to raw has been the best decision I've ever made for my dogs. There was a recent poll on another forum and nearly all of the raw feeders who had to switch back to kibble due to financial restrictions wished they could switch back to raw because of the fantastic results. If you think about it, kibble truly is a completely foreign food to dogs. Sure, they may not have necessarily eaten raw (many domesticated dogs thrive on homeCOOKED diets then and now), but kibble is such an odd thing to feed your dog. Carbs and proteins lumped into a crushed nuggest sprayed with minerals and vitamins? Oh yes, that sounds very appetizing and nutritious indeed :X

After seeing my Pekingese languish on kibble after kibble, I decided enough was enough. The difference between a kibble fed dog and a raw fed dog is amazing. You don't even notice the suddle differences until you experience the changes yourself. I'll post some visual "proof" later. The poster who posted it deleted the images...hmm...

[Giselle]

I don't feed a raw diet, my parents would never go for that. When I get my Toller though I'd love to start feeding her and Tango raw as that is what my breeder and other Toller breeders reccommend for the breed. Tango will be about 5 years old or so by the time comes, will I be able to switch her to a raw diet after having been a kibble fed dog for so long already?? Sarah, would you mind PMing me the links that you have? Even though I won't be getting a Toller for about 2 years, I'd like to start researching this now so that I don't have to quickly learn how to feed raw right before I get my pup... :)
Likewise, Lucky was 5 when I made the switch, too. It really is never too late to switch to a wholesome diet! (Same goes for humans *cough cough*)

[.sarah]

(Same goes for humans *cough cough*)
lol, yeah maybe I'll start eating healthier one day too http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

[Glacier]

Actually, I don't like feeding pork. I just feel that the benefits of pork can be found in other more wholesome protein sources. I also remember something about pork skin that causes pancreatitis or something...I know bacon can contribute to the development of pancreatitis, but I'm positive I heard something negative about raw pork as well. At any rate, Sarah seemed to cover most of it :p

.


It's the fat in pork that can cause pancreatitis. In some dogs, any high dose of fat will cause it. I have a couple who are prone to it and I have to be very careful to limit their fat intake. In extreme cold temperatures, I sometimes give the working dogs small chunks of pork fat. Takes a lot of calories just to stay warm at -40!

[lv4dogs]

When I get my dog I will feed raw. I joined the Livejournal Rawdogs group thanks to a post made on PT and I am hooked on the idea!


I'm a memeber of that community too, although since I stopped feeding raw (or cut down, they still get raw 1-2 times a week) a few weeks ago I haven't been on as much, that & I've been so busy lately. It's such a great group. I'm rauook on LJ.

[Giselle]

(These are not my pictures, please do not use them!)
A 6-year-old-ish retired racing Greyhound on a kibble diet:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/LSophie/teefers01.jpg

The same dog after one raw recreational bone:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/LSophie/teefers02.jpg

Need I say more? This is after THREE hours. If a single rec bone can make so much difference in three hours, can you imagine the teeth of a dog fed raw its whole life? A picture is literally a thousand words.

[.sarah]

OH MY GOD :eek: :eek:

That is an incredible difference :eek:

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

That's disgusting! I can't believe 3 hours made such a huge difference :eek:

Although, I must say that I personally have never seen a kibble fed dog's teeth ever look that bad.....

[k9krazee]

Wow! What a difference!!! That is amazing.



Although, I must say that I personally have never seen a kibble fed dog's teeth ever look that bad.....

:o Yeah, same here, even my (almost) 10 year old Rottie has better teeth than that 6 year old had!!

[cali]

really? I have seen a LOT of kibble fed dogs with teeth that bad.

I like this pic of Shadow, the pic was taken when shadow was just about 9 years old, 4 years on kibble and 4 years on raw

I was looking at this pic, and it struck me how white her teeth are for her age lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/HappyFM/dogs/96bab6a2.jpg

and look at Happys teeth..she has the dirtiest teeth out of all my dogs because she wont do any recriational chewing whatsoever, she wont even eat her dinner if she cant break the bone with one bite.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/HappyFM/Happy/6e63c389.jpg

it was funny, we are so used to how much the rest of the dogs teeth sparkle, that we look at happys and go.."I wonder if something is wrong with her teeth?" so we take her to the vet and the vet goes "WOW these are some of the best teeth I have seen" lol

[K9soul]

I do hope to feed raw someday when I have the freezer for it and the finances to do it right. For now mine are on Innova EVO but they also get lots of chews, (bones and bully sticks) and "extras" like eggs, cheese, fresh meat at times, etc. and I brush their teeth regularly, so they look very good, though I have no doubt they'd be even whiter and stronger if they had been fed raw since the beginning.


This is the best pic I have that shows Tasha's teefers. She is 7.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/k9soul/Tasha%20and%20Tommy/Tommy%20and%20Tasha%2024/tashateeth.jpg

By the way, I appreciate all the info in this thread! :)

[Giselle]

I'm pretty sure it's an ex-racer thing. Many retired racers are supposedly genetically predisposed to bad teeth and, hence, bad breath. I know one 4 year old ex-racer whose teeth look like they've been around since dinosaurs walked the earth LOL. Even though she's on a kibble diet, she receives annual cleanings, frequent chews (it was her owner who introduced me to bully sticks and greenies), daily add-ins and supplements (her owner also shows dogs so she likes to supplement all her dogs), and frequent tooth brushing. Still, her owner claims her breath is still rather rancid and they just doesn't look her age. I can honestly attest, however, that raw bones do work wonders for dogs. Giselle came to me with moderate plaque that could be relatively easy to remove with a tooth brush. I stopped brushing due to laziness and tossed her a rec bone every now and then. After a couple weeks on raw bones, her pearly whites shone through and there is NO sign of plaque whatsoever.

(K9Soul, Tasha's teeth are perfect! I wish Lucky's looked like that!)

[bckrazy]

I REALLY appreciate this thread too! Especially Sarah and Sophie going into so much detail about everything. I will be switching to raw in about a month for Gonzo and the new pup, and we've decided on a pre-made raw diet to start off with rec bones. We're about to order Steve's Real Food, after talking to Kathy (Corgi breeder).

I do have concerns about wearing and cracking on the teeth... Gonzo did crack his rear molar on a knuckle bone (it was semi-frozen) and I don't want him to crack it to the root at all. I've also seen young raw-fed dogs with very worn down teeth, they're white, but super worn. I was wondering if any of you BARF/RAW-ers have any tips to prevent this? :)

[CathyBogart]

Star has AWFUL teeth. :( :( :( I need to get her some recreational bones, they're really bad. Unfortunately, the vet my parents take her to is not concerned with her bad teeth at all.

[bckrazy]

Good news! My Mom went to our local Whole Foods Market and got a 3# bag of Steve's Real Food, Turkey, and Gonzo got to try a couple nuggets and he loved it! :) I guess I have to go refresh my memory about transitioning from kibble to raw...

[beyond_me]

Does a raw diet help with weight gain? I have a pitty too that I can't get to gain weight. She did fill out pretty good but we got a new dog and now she stays pretty skinny. I have been feeding her can food now to help but it is not. Also she gets pretty bored with food but I have her on chicken soup and I like it for the price and food, so I don't want to keep changing her food to keep her happy because I can't aford better food but I don't want to give her what petstores sell. Is it a lot more to feed raw? I have 3 about 50 pounds each dogs.

[bckrazy]

beyond_me, I think raw would work really well for a dog that needs to keep weight on. :) Or a dog that needs to lose weight. Because you can really accurately measure the caloric value in meats that you feed, and she really would love eating it. In even great kibbles, the calories and ratio of grains/meats/etc totally varies from one bag to the next. I've heard of a meal you can feed to dogs to add weight... I forgot what they're called, but I think they mainly consist of a ball of hamburger meat, egg, and other stuff. Some one else might be able to help you with that.

[beyond_me]

Thank you. I think I am going to start checking this raw stuff out.

[zoomer]

My 1/2 dog (Diesel) eats that. He's not a chubby dog... that's for sure. But it works.

[binka_nugget]

I just switched the Shelties back to premade raw. I'm going to start buying bulk from a supplier soon so I can add in my own veggies and supplements. Kai was THRILLED to be eating raw again! :D

[Roxyluvsme13]

Aww..you guys make me wanna switch my dogs to raw! Totally absolutely no way mom is going to agree to that. Roxy really needs to go on Raw, especially if it would help with weight gain.They both have pretty perfect teeth though, but ah..Raw sounds really great!

[binka_nugget]

Aww..you guys make me wanna switch my dogs to raw! Totally absolutely no way mom is going to agree to that. Roxy really needs to go on Raw, especially if it would help with weight gain.They both have pretty perfect teeth though, but ah..Raw sounds really great!

What's Roxy eating now? When we adopted Kaedyn, he was at a disgusting weight. We started feeding him a puppy formula instead of adult because of the extra calories. It worked really well (too well actually.. LOL).

[Roxyluvsme13]

What's Roxy eating now? When we adopted Kaedyn, he was at a disgusting weight. We started feeding him a puppy formula instead of adult because of the extra calories. It worked really well (too well actually.. LOL).
A generic brand of Kibbles and Bits and Alpo...
We put her on more food though, because she wasnt eating enough, and she looked like we had starved her, but of course we didnt.
But at this exact moment her dry is Dog Chow, because it was on sale. :rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

RAW feeder here! I do a prey-model diet because it is what is natural. The majority of premade diets (and alot of homemade diets) have too much bone. Rabbits are only 10% bone --- a chicken thigh alone is 15% bone. Alot of premade and homemade diets also have too much vegetable. In the wild, dogs do not eat alot of vegetable matter. Only the stomach contents of the smaller animals are consumed -- the larger animals' stomach contents are shaken out and are not eaten. The taste is bitter, wolves do not like it. So I only feed veggies every couple of days, and not very much. I feed several different kinds of meat and organs. I do not feed vitamin supplements, as I feel they are not needed.

I feel that people make RAW more complicated than it really is. I just think about what happens in the wild and take it from there. I don't measure or weigh. I just feed more or less depending on what Visa's weight looks like. I don't do percentages or things like that. I just make the meal mostly meat, with organs and some bone, and sometimes vegetable or fruit matter. It doesn't matter if the meal isn't nutritionally balanced -- as long as there is variety in every meal, there will be enough nutrition.

Since being on a raw diet, Visa has gained weight, her breath doesn't smell, her coat is shinier, she has more energy, her behaviour has improved, she is more relaxed in stressful situations, she sleeps better, etc. Her teeth haven't improved much, but she doesn't do alot of recreational chewing. I love RAW, I'll do it forever.

[Giselle]

beyond_me, I think raw would work really well for a dog that needs to keep weight on. :) Or a dog that needs to lose weight. Because you can really accurately measure the caloric value in meats that you feed, and she really would love eating it. In even great kibbles, the calories and ratio of grains/meats/etc totally varies from one bag to the next. I've heard of a meal you can feed to dogs to add weight... I forgot what they're called, but I think they mainly consist of a ball of hamburger meat, egg, and other stuff. Some one else might be able to help you with that.
I think you're talking about Satin Balls :)
http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm

I know a lot of conformation people who use satin balls when they're traveling on shows because it can provide a temporary fatty diet to keep their dogs weight and coat healthy.

Roxyluvsme13, I really recommend you either feed Roxy more (how many cups of Dog Chow are you feeding right now?), go to the vet to rule out medical problems, and/or start supplementing her diet with meat. Skip the veggies, fruits, bread, and all that other junk. What Roxy needs to fatten her up is fat and protein. Dogs are quasiomnivores, and, as such, they usually thrive on a higher than normal protein/fat diet. Since Satin Balls are nice simple way to supplement Roxy's diet, you can continue to feed Dog Chow and add a couple of these balls to her daily portion.

Bckrazy, they sell Steve's Real Food at Whole Food Markets??? I had no clue!! I have to check this out!

[bckrazy]

YES! And they're actually priced reasonably... I think, like, $2.50/lb, which is what Evo costs.

[Roxyluvsme13]

I think you're talking about Satin Balls :)
http://www.njboxers.com/satin-balls-recipe.htm

Roxyluvsme13, I really recommend you either feed Roxy more (how many cups of Dog Chow are you feeding right now?), go to the vet to rule out medical problems, and/or start supplementing her diet with meat. Skip the veggies, fruits, bread, and all that other junk. What Roxy needs to fatten her up is fat and protein. Dogs are quasiomnivores, and, as such, they usually thrive on a higher than normal protein/fat diet. Since Satin Balls are nice simple way to supplement Roxy's diet, you can continue to feed Dog Chow and add a couple of these balls to her daily portion.

Bckrazy, they sell Steve's Real Food at Whole Food Markets??? I had no clue!! I have to check this out!
She gets 2 in the morning, and 2 in the evening + Alpo in the evening..what are Satin balls?

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

She gets 2 in the morning, and 2 in the evening + Alpo in the evening..what are Satin balls?

It explains what Satin Balls are in the link Giselle posted... :D

[Roxyluvsme13]

It explains what Satin Balls are in the link Giselle posted... :D
I didnt notice it till after I posted :p:o
Like my mom would buy hamburger for the dog...:(

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

I didnt notice it till after I posted :p:o
Like my mom would buy hamburger for the dog...:(

You could always buy her some ground beef, it is fairly inexpensive if you buy the regular and not the lean variety.

[Roxyluvsme13]

You could always buy her some ground beef, it is fairly inexpensive if you buy the regular and not the lean variety.
Every ground beef no matter what Kind I've ever seen was like really expensive. It's like $5 a pound.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Every ground beef no matter what Kind I've ever seen was like really expensive. It's like $5 a pound.

Wow! Where I live, regular ground beef is under $1.00/pound. I can buy a HUGE package of it for under $8.00.

[Roxyluvsme13]

Wow! Where I live, regular ground beef is under $1.00/pound. I can buy a HUGE package of it for under $8.00.
It's really expensive, like a huge roll is $20+

[Giselle]

Ahh! I have to check our local Whole Foods Market out now! Is it in the freezer section or...?

Roxyluvsme13, have you checked out a local Walmart or anything? It's odd that hamburger/ground beef would be that expensive. Are you *positive* that it costs 5$ per pound? It sounds more like filet mignon than regular ol' ground beef, LOL. At our Safeway, we can buy a medium package of ground beef for 1-3$ which would suffice to make at least 20 Satin Balls. If you think about it, that's 9$ to make 60 Satin Balls which could last you about a month. That's pretty inexpensive :)

[bckrazy]

Yep, it's in the freezer section! You could just call and they'll tell you :)

Roxyluvsme, you need to tell your Mom that Roxy NEEDS a better food. Dog chow is probably going right through her, it has very little nutritional value. Imagine if you could only eat a limited amount of cheap corn flakes, and being an athlete or living in extremely sever temperatures - you would NOTTT be healthy. Seriously, tell her that Roxy just won't keep healthy weight on if she is bought discount kibble and living outside. Try to at least bump it up to Purina One, which at least has some meat protein in it, and add either good quality canned food or satin balls. Tell her that animal control can and will be called by concerned neighbors if she doesn't put weight on - and, you need to explain to her that such a poor quality food is actually costing you MORE than a better quality kibble would! You're probably feeding her 3x more Dog Chow than she would need to be healthy on a higher quality kibble with more calories/protein/nutrients. You could save up spare change and buy a few lbs of ground beef to add to her diet! My Dad just bought some, and I checked and it costs $3.99 for a large package... about $0.50/lb, and this is California!

[nicanc724]

wow this is a long thread.......
i feel daisy jo IAMs puppy food.....is that good? I hope...she sure likes it

[Roxyluvsme13]

Well I probably overexaggerated on the ground beef price, but it really isn't cheap anywhere. a Small package is about $5..which isnt alot of ground beef. I have $10 right now, but it's going to Seb's new tank...so I dunno. We're sorta low on money because of income tax, but I'll see if I can do anything to get her a better dog food.

I already tried the whole "If we buy a better dog food, it actually saves us money!" Thing. My mom said she wasn't going to pay $30 a bag for dog food(it was Nutro, that I wanted to put her on) Since we have started feeding her more though, she is gaining weight...UGH I hate my mother sometimes.

[labmomma]

I feed my two labs Flint River kibble with broth and some lean chicken thrown in. They love it and are doing extremely well. I've dropped their feeding back to once a day (mornings) and my picky eater is doing so much better with this schedule. I have the Flint River on auto ship and the shipping is free and since they don't eat as much of it as the store bought brands it is actually costing me less. I am a very happy camper with my dog's feeding situation. :)

[IRescue452]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up since so many people are being educated by this thread. Processed meats are worse than kibble. None of that plastic wrapped stuff on the grocer's shelf. That's pumped full of chemicals that are unhealthy for people and shorten our lifespans and the same goes with dogs and cats. I try not to eat processed meats myself. I am in no way ready to switch to raw until I find out which bacteria can be transmitted to dogs. I also hope all you raw feeders do a lot of cleaning of anything the meat touches. I prefer the utility diet of cooked meat and raw veggies, eggs, and such. You can give a balance of nutrients with a cooked meat diet too.

[beyond_me]

That was something I was wondering. Now-a-days meat has so many chemicals in it. But also wouldn't raw veggies and friut unless you know that they are organic? But then it is even more to feed raw. I was just thinken that either way they are still getting bad stuff right??? Also I know that salmonella that gets us sick doesn't bother dogs or cat, but they can transmit. That is why I am a little worried about giving raw meat to my dogs. Our boxer knows how to get you when you aren't ready. I would hate to get sick from a kiss. :p

[beyond_me]

I feed my two labs Flint River kibble with broth and some lean chicken thrown in. They love it and are doing extremely well. I've dropped their feeding back to once a day (mornings) and my picky eater is doing so much better with this schedule. I have the Flint River on auto ship and the shipping is free and since they don't eat as much of it as the store bought brands it is actually costing me less. I am a very happy camper with my dog's feeding situation. :)

I just checked out the web site and it looks great. I have been looking for a food that would be good with dogs with allergies. I'm not sure if they have food allergies but I would still like to help as much as possible. Also my dogs are pitt's and boxers so they are very sensitive to everything!!! :rolleyes:

[wolfsoul]

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up since so many people are being educated by this thread. Processed meats are worse than kibble. None of that plastic wrapped stuff on the grocer's shelf. That's pumped full of chemicals that are unhealthy for people and shorten our lifespans and the same goes with dogs and cats. I try not to eat processed meats myself. I am in no way ready to switch to raw until I find out which bacteria can be transmitted to dogs. I also hope all you raw feeders do a lot of cleaning of anything the meat touches. I prefer the utility diet of cooked meat and raw veggies, eggs, and such. You can give a balance of nutrients with a cooked meat diet too.

The stuff RAW people feed is not processed -- processed meats are the aame thing as processed cheese, or Spam. It's the fake version of the real stuff. Processed meat isn't really meat -- it contains high amounts of sodium and preservatives. The stuff you are talking about it just inorganic meat, which isn't nearly as bad as kibble -- most kibble doesn't only use inorganic meat, but diseased and rotten meat as well. I'm not picky about the kind of meat I buy -- I try to buy as organic as possible, but it is far too expensive to rely on organic foods altogether. I am certainly NOT careful about washing everything that meat touches. I believe that in order to stay resistant to bacteria, your body has to build a resistance to it by being around it as much as possible. I'm not careful about washing my hands and counters after handling raw meat, never have been, and I have yet to get sick. My friend who is absolutely paranoid about bacteria and washes and Lysols the heck out of things became very ill after she first started cooking meat in foods class in highschool. As long as you know what you're doing, none of the bacteria in raw meat will harm your dog. If you mix kibble and raw meat together, there is a much higher chance that the bacteria will affect your dog because the kibble is harder to digest and takes hours longer -- it can hold back the raw meat. Raw meat alone is easily digested and passed through the body quickly enough that the bacteria doesn't harm the dog. There are exceptions of course, some dogs with genetic digestive problems and such may not have the right enzymes in order to digest certain things, such as raw meat. This is mostly because some dogs have been thriving on kibble so long that they continue to bear puppies that have digestive problems and can ONLY eat kibble. Dogs with pancreatitis are a good example of that. The majority of them can only eat kibble or their pancreatitis will act up if fed anything else.

[PinkSunshine]

I believe that in order to stay resistant to bacteria, your body has to build a resistance to it by being around it as much as possible.

ITA. We don't switch our dogs over to an all RAW diet until they are 6 months old. We feel it's best for them to build up an immunity towards bacteria by eating kibble for 6 months.

Wolfsoul has explained it much better than I could ;)

[cali]

really? we switch pupps to raw as soon an humanly possable, its MUCH better for their growth, if I compare moth my BCs one who grew up on kibble and one who was started on raw at 7 weeks the builds are very differnt, and its not hereditary, there is not one single dog in Happys entire pedigree that has a structure that even remotly resembles hers. Misty is smaller, better filled out, better muscled and had an overall better growth rate. Happy was not switched till around 6 months, she is tall, lanky, and if I shaved her she would pass for a greyhound lol she grew in huge sprurts, about 3 inches a week lol

[binka_nugget]

That's pumped full of chemicals that are unhealthy for people and shorten our lifespans and the same goes with dogs and cats.

True.. but I don't think most kibbles would have the best quality of meats either.

I try to feed organic as often as I can though.. the warehouse I work for lets us take home free food every day.. and it's all organic. :D I don't bother eating the food I take home, but the dogs get it LOL. They eat better than I do.

[wolfsoul]

Also I know that salmonella that gets us sick doesn't bother dogs or cat, but they can transmit.

Actually this is not true --- You are MUCH more likely to get salmonella from a dog that eats kibble. A dog's saliva contains an enzyme that destroys bacteria, and because a raw-fed dog does not have plaque, there is no place for bacteria to inhabit. A kibble-fed dog, however, usually has alot of plaque -- all of that is bacteria. You will notice that kibble-fed dogs generally have bad breath. That is the bacteria. Raw-fed dogs do not have bad breath, because bacteria can not thrive in their mouths.

[cloverfdx]

This has been a realy interesting read :D. I feed raw also (Tinny gets some working dog dry food chucked in to keep her weight up). I am at work at the moment so cannot go into details, but will post photos and info later when i get home (After i go dog food shopping lol).

[finn's mom]

I fed my RB boy, Bruno, a raw diet, starting a couple years before he passed, and, it was amazing the difference it made in his coat, teeth, breath, eyes, bones, muscles, joints, poop, energy, everything. I put Finn on it as soon as I got him in my care. :) He grew at a slow pace, and, is now about 85 pounds. He was less than 50 pounds when I got to South Carolina last April, and, was already about 14 months old. I like that he grew slowly, I think it's better for them all around. He doesn't stink at all, doesn't have bad breath ever. Even after he plays in the mud, if he swims in the lake to rinse off, he has virtually no odor. I clean his ears out because he tends to stick his head completely into the mud and totally under water, but, as far as his coat and skin, it's ideal, and, I rarely bathe him. I'm all for the raw diet, definitely. And, as faddish as it may seem, there are many people that have been feeding raw for years and years. And, they all had large breeds that were living to be 20 years and up. It's pretty amazing stuff, I think. ;) Great thread, too.

[cloverfdx]

Ok i have only just gotton time to go into details now, gotta love the Easter break :D.

My guys have been fed RAW on and off for the ast couple of years, when on RAW they are active, dont smell, their skin is clear etc. Clover used to suffer from some stiffnes in her hips on cold mornings and also would get hot spots often in the warm weather. They have been on RAW agian for a good 12 months + and there is no way i would switch back to processed food again. Clover moves alot easier these days and is a physcho at Flyball lol, as for the hot spots she has not had one for years.

Tinny has loved moving in with us as she was raised on kibble and the odd bone, when she came to us she was thin and her coat was extremly dry and dull, now it is gorgeous and soft. She goes nuts at dinner time now and gets excited about their RMBs (Rec bones).

Elvis is just a pig and will eat anything, but he was also raised on a commercial puppy kibble and chicken mince/ necks. He is now eating all RAW and looks great, ok well a little overweight at the moment ;) but that is coming off.

Feeding RAW is better for me aswell because it is alot cheaper to buy, and the extra work putting their dinner together at night does not bother me because atleast i know what they are eating. I picked up 2 large packets of lamb necks from the supermarket for $1 each last night, and a packet of Ox heart for $2.

Dinner last night though was a chunk of lamb (Spine & ribs) and that was their dinner, easier than pouring kibble into a bowl. Ok i will stop rambling now and find some before and after photos.

[cloverfdx]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/purple_elvis/Tinny5.jpg
Tinny after being with us 1 week, the difference even that early on was amazing.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/purple_elvis/Tinnyfirstweek6.jpg
Clover and her waist line, she was always fat on commmercial food no matter how little she got fed and how much she exercised.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/purple_elvis/Daylesford13.jpg
His lovely clear eyes and glowing coat. It was not always like that.

[Misty_Pearl]

I feed raw to my French Bulldog - Pearl. My pomeranians don't get it simply because they won't eat it. I know most people that feed raw feed whole bones also. I however have them ground into the meat because I am a worrywort. I can say that I notice a difference in Pearl when she eats kibble. She gets it every once in a while as a snack in the afternoon. French Bulldogs are notoriouse for gas and Pearl's is much worse when she eats anything commercially produced. If she just gets her raw, she doesn't have the flatuance.

[Sevaede]

I feed a lot of variety. Chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, rabbit (but not to Mandy, she hates rabbit :(), etc.

Chicken - Usually I buy chicken quarters, chicken backs, and chicken necks, sometimes legs but usually the quarters are more of a bargain so I stick to those. Buck is currently on chicken legs though simply because I like to feed him twice a day since his stomach is small and a quarter is a meal for a day. I usually avoid wings because there is not enough meat on them, and for large dogs they can be a choking hazzard. However I bought some whole chickens the other day and Buck got the wings since he is still small and still a very slooooow and careful eater. ;)

Beef - Most of the beef I buy is boneless, because thier bones are so hard and usually aren't consumed by dogs (however Nova and Mandy will eat them if given enough time, it's funny Luka doesn't since she's my gulper). I give beef ribs as a recreational RMB (raw meaty bone), they take a long time to eat. If I could find them in a rack I would feed them as a meal, but I haven't had such luck yet. I feed beef neck bones to the dogs the other day and they were another recreational bone but these were a bit thinner so the girls managed to eat most of it. Buck had a hard time even getting the meat off so I thawed some boneless for him for tomorrow.

Pork - I give mostly pork neck bones, along with some boneless meat (of any kind) because the necks I find tend to be bony. My mom found some with a good deal of meat on them at Albertsons last week, and I have those in the freezer. I do have some pigs feet (hooves off) that I'll probably feed soon. Pork bones are incredibly soft. I like to feel the marrow of the bones (if it's visible) in any bones I feed, mostly out of curiosity (I love anatomy :p) but also to make sure that they can eat it safely.

Turkey - I mostly feed turkey necks and drumsticks. They don't get much turkey because chicken is cheaper and poultry shouldn't be too much of a staple in their diet (wolves feed mostly on hooved animals).

Lamb - Fed in moderation because it is really expensive.

Rabbit - I buy them whole for the Labbies (Mandy doesn't like it very much). It's enough food for over a day so they get a few light meals after they have a rabbit as I don't like to take away food I've already put down for them, and I don't want to cut it in half. Also fed in moderation because of the price.

Organs - Mostly I use chicken liver, chicken gizzards, and beef liver. When I buy chickens whole they include the heart as well, but I have had a really tough time finding heart of any animal. I'd like to feed more organ variety but this is all I've found so far. There is another butcher here that I haven't visited though.

Anything else - feed anything you can find! If you're worried about bones then just buy it boneless, or you can always cut the meat off or smash the bones. Some people with small dogs, cats, and other small animals (hens, ferrets, etc.) feed whole rats even!

------------------------------------

The ratios for raw feeding is supposed to be something like 10-15% bone, 5-10% organ meat and 80% meat. That is what overwhelmed me at first ... I was like, math while feeding my dogs? No way! You're also supposed to feed 2-3% of their body weight. I spent the first few days with a pen and paper and a scale making sure everything was perfect. I then went to the yahoo group and read through some posts and saw that this is just a guideline, it doesn't have to be perfect! You can eventually look at a piece of meat and say "this is exactly Mandy's portion" and you also just start looking at the cut and saying, "this is a very bony meal so the next meal should be boneless".

I also don't worry about variety on a daily basis. If I decide to thaw out a huge bag of chicken quarters (which is thawing now actually) then they will eat that for a few days. The next time around I just thaw something different. I used to thaw 3-4 meats at a time and feed a variety for every meal, but it's not neccessary. You just need to worry about variety over time, not day by day.

So far the raw has been cheaper than kibble! I just stick to stuff under .99/pound. Anything over that is skipped over until a sale comes up. If it's a cut that is always expensive (rabbit, lamb, fish) then I will buy it once a month, twice max.

This is going to sound stupid but do you cook it or is it literally raw? If so, how do you cook it?

[.sarah]

This is going to sound stupid but do you cook it or is it literally raw? If so, how do you cook it?
Nope, it's completely and totally raw! :D

[bckrazy]

Rhiannon, I have the same problems with Gonzo that you have with Clover! He was fed less than 1 cup of Evo a day with pureed vegetables, and his weight still jumped around, always 3-5 lbs overweight... and as you know he needs to be at his optimum weight for Flyball! He's already lost 1 lb from eating raw, and I'm feeding him WAY more food and he seems fuller than he did with so little kibble. He also has a lot more energy, noticably. We started Flyball a couple weeks ago and everyone commented on how he has a lot more stamina and looks trimmer ;0). I'm still really nervous to wean him off of all kibble completely!

Sarah, I read it was 50-60% RMB's and more like 10% meat? Ahh, atleast that's what I'm doing. I guess there are a ton of different ways to feed it. It's been really hard with pre-prepared raw and RMB's, because I have to include how much of the pre-prepared is ground bone and veggies and meat :p yeah, but it's worth it!

[Pembroke_Corgi]

This is quite an interesting thread, I've been following it, and I wanted to ask a few questions to anyone who can answer.

I would like to feed my dogs a homemade diet, but I'm unsure about having all that raw meat in my house. My husband and I are both long-time vegetarians and it would be a difficult adjustment. (I hate for that to be a concern, but it would bother me). If it was raw meat, I would also not want to feed them anything but organic.

Is there any pre-made product for dogs to supplement their kibble until I am ready to switch?? Bckrazy, I know you mentioned Steve's Real Food, are there other products like this? I have always thought about switching to a homemade diet, but have consoled myself with feeding better dog food, but this thread is making me want to improve their diet! Thanks in advance.

Oh yeah, does anyone here have cats that they also feed raw?

[wolfsoul]

Is there any pre-made product for dogs to supplement their kibble until I am ready to switch?? Bckrazy, I know you mentioned Steve's Real Food, are there other products like this?

Oh yeah, does anyone here have cats that they also feed raw?

There are tons of premade raw products that you can buy. :) The only downside is that they can be expensive, and there aren't alot suited for dogs like mine, who is on a prey-model diet. You can't feed it WITH the kibble -- but you can feed raw in the morning, and kibble at night, or whatever your schedule is with feeding. The problem is that raw and kibble are digested differently. Kibble is harder to digest and so it takes longer -- it can keep the raw back and let the bacteria in the raw affect the dog.

If you want to find some premade raw, look at small pet supply stores rather than big pet stores -- they typically have better foods than bigger companies. Also try finding a holistic vet in your area -- they may sell premade raw as well.

Here are some premade products. :) You may be able to ask them if there are any stores in your area selling their produicts, or it may even be listed on the website.

Nature's Variety Frozen Raw (http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1308&-session=naturesvariety:1847C9E50a47a2FC28vqw1FBA07 3)
Jake And Daisy's Raw Pet Food (http://www.jakeanddaiseys.com/)
Top Hand Pets Go Raw (http://www.mtnhighshiba.ca/) Oma's Pride (http://www.omaspride.com/)
Bravo! Raw Diet (http://www.bravorawdiet.com/)

These are the only ones I know of. Nature's Link unfortunatly went out of business, which is unfortunate because they were based right here in Kelowna.

I fed my cat raw (he lives with my mom now and eats kibble). He loved it and was much thinner than he is now. The litterbox was also a much easier task. :rolleyes:

[bckrazy]

Yep, call around to local pet stores/whole food stores to see if any of them carry good pre-made brands :) Steve's Real Food is one of the best available in my area, and the cheapest. It's about $2.50/lb. I'm just using it mostly as a start to raw, because it does contain 5% grain and 5% veggies, along with bones and supplements, so it's pretty much all-in-one. I've been giving him RMB's a few days a week too, hopefully I'll be able to just feed the premade occasionally, as regular organic meat costs a lot less!

I'm also a vegetarian, but when it gets down to it, I have no problem feeding my dog animal meat because that's what is healthiest for him! ;) It's also a lot better to give them meat that you prepare and that is organic rather than feeding kibble that has meat from who-knows-where.

[wolfsoul]

Oh, I forgot about Mountain Dog Food (http://www.mountaindogfood.com/) and Amore Pet foods (http://www.amorepetfoods.com/). Visa's breeder fed these to her dogs when she fed RAW.

[Giselle]

There's also:
FarMore Dog Food (http://www.farmoredogfood.com/)
BARF patties (http://www.barfworld.com/html/barf_diet/barfdiet_nutrient.shtml)

You can also feed a dehydrated raw food like the Honest Kitchen (http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/)

In all honesty, I think you'd feel better knowing what exactly goes into your dog's food and where it comes from. Kibble companies obtain their meat from factories and certainly not organic farms like you and I might prefer. Of course, there are exceptions like Karma and Artemis who claim to be certified organic, but these kibbles can be difficult to find and quite pricy. Although you'll have to deal with raw flesh and blood (and while it may be against your principles), your pups could actually be eating in a more eco-friendly manner when you're feeding raw VS. kibble. Some food for thought :)

[Pembroke_Corgi]

Thanks for all of your replies! Yes, I do think knowing where my dog's food comes from is better then not, and I know I would hate to eat what seems like dry fortified cereal at every meal.

I found some Nature's Variety Frozen Raw at our co-op yesterday and gave it to them this morning. They all loved it of course, right now they are running around checking each other's bowls. :rolleyes: I gave a small bit to Seine (our cat)- and she liked it a lot but she never eats much food at a time so I gave the rest of hers to the dogs. I'm assuming they need to eat it all in one sitting so it doesnt gather bacteria?

Where do you find fresh bones that are big enough so they won't splinter and eat them?

[CathyBogart]

Where do you find fresh bones that are big enough so they won't splinter and eat them?

There are a few butchers near me and I stop by occasionally and ask for large bones. I've had the best luck at my local Asian grocery store though...better prices and better selection.

[bckrazy]

Nature's Variety is very good quality ;) I find it insanely expensive, though! ZOMG. It's good to start off on, though, until you get the hang of raw portions. Steve's is very cheap at my Whole Foods Market, less than $2.50/lb, and he doesn't eat much of it because he gets RMB's and kibble also.

It is fine for RMB's to be left in the grass or buried for a short while, with a cooked bone that wouldn't be good however. Gonzo likes to eat his bones in the grass and he sometimes leaves them there for an hour and goes back out later.

[Giselle]

Where do you find fresh bones that are big enough so they won't splinter and eat them?
Cow femur bones at a local Asian market/butcher. You're bound to find one ;) Ask them to cut it into fourths or fifths depending on the size of the bone.

[Tollers-n-Dobes]

This is probably a stupid question but I was just wondering, when you feed raw (not the premade stuff) do you have to feed outside?? That's what I've been told by numerous people and was worried since I do not put my dogs outside in the winter just to eat...lol.

[wolfsoul]

I don't put Visa outside. :) She doesn't make a mess, but she does like to put some of her food on the floor, so I make sure she eats in the kitchen (the other day, she kept bringing a whole fish onto my livingroom carpet -- I finally had to lock her out of the livingroom :rolleyes: ).

[Misty_Pearl]

This is probably a stupid question but I was just wondering, when you feed raw (not the premade stuff) do you have to feed outside?? That's what I've been told by numerous people and was worried since I do not put my dogs outside in the winter just to eat...lol.


What would be the reasoning for putting them outside?? No, Pearl eats inside with everyone else.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Bailey had half a duck today - he LOVED it! I got a 3 pound duck for $6.00! Duck is really inexpensive here. I am going to be switching him to RAW next payday. I calculated how much it would cost and it is much cheaper than dry kibble. The benefits of a raw diet are amazing! I talked to DH tonight and explained to him the benefits and the price difference. We are going to talk to our local butcher tomorrow to see what deals we can get.

I want to buy him quail, duck, chicken, turkey, beef and pork to start. Then I can give him some fish and lamb depending on how pricey it is. I am going to make his weekly feeding chart so I am more organized - then I can put his daily meals into a freezer bag and write the day he is going to get that particular meal.

I did ALOT of research and I am now finally prepared to go ahead and feed him a raw diet. :D

[.sarah]

Woo hoo, that is great news! Bailey is gonna be one happy pup! :D :D

I feed outside, just because it's easier for me and my mom worries about bacteria in the house. If it's raining they take turns eating in the crate downstairs, then I clean it with a 50/50 vinegar/water solution.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

I have a couple questions...

Can Bailey have raw tongue and pork hocks?

Do I need to add any supplements? Oils?

[finn's mom]

This is probably a stupid question but I was just wondering, when you feed raw (not the premade stuff) do you have to feed outside?? That's what I've been told by numerous people and was worried since I do not put my dogs outside in the winter just to eat...lol.

It's not a stupid question at all. I put Finn outside on the patio to eat. When I first got him, I put him in his crate to eat, and, did that for probably the first six months or so. But, it's just easier to put him outside. :) it's completely up to you, though.

[finn's mom]

I have a couple questions...

Can Bailey have raw tongue and pork hocks?

Do I need to add any supplements? Oils?

I wouldn't think those would be an issue. Tongue may be really rich, though, and, without bone, his stool may be runny...maybe make sure he gets chicken bone that day sometime, too, to counteract? That's probably what I'd do. Pork hocks is something I'd feed. I haven't supplemented in a long time, but, once I move back to Texas, I'll probably start giving him a vitamin my vet there always recommends.

[.sarah]

I have a couple questions...

Can Bailey have raw tongue and pork hocks?

Do I need to add any supplements? Oils?
If Bailey is not a gulper then pork hocks should be fine. I feed them to my crew. Here's Buck and Luka enjoying one ...
http://www.southernmutt.com/photos/raw/IMG_0096.jpg http://www.southernmutt.com/photos/raw/IMG_0104.jpg

Tongue is also fine. I haven't fed it yet, but probably will soon. I've heard it's really tough to cut - which is the main reason why I haven't bought it, the cow tongue's come whole here - and it's also tough and chewy for the dogs to eat (but I've heard that they love the taste).

Supplements aren't really needed unless if you're trying to target a specific problem. I supplement fish oil & vitamin E for Mandy and Nova because they have joint issues. The other two don't need anything. All the nutrients your dog needs is in his food, so there's really no reason to supplement unless if he's sick or something. :)

Oh by the way everyone - I found a raw feeding message board yesterday. Raw-Forums.com (http://www.raw-forums.com), you should all join! My username is Wiggle Butt :p

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Thanks! Pork hocks are really cheap here and they are HUGE! His main meat will be chicken backs and necks, since I can get a package of two for $2.00.

[.sarah]

Chicken backs and necks are kind of boney, so just watch for constipation. I'm off to go to the seafood market and then Publix - and I'm shopping for the dogs of course! :D

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Chicken backs and necks are kind of boney, so just watch for constipation. I'm off to go to the seafood market and then Publix - and I'm shopping for the dogs of course! :D

Okay, I will just give him chicken backs and necks twice a week for breakfast. Then something meatier for dinner. He hasn't had any constipation since I have been giving him the chicken backs and necks. When I go shopping, I am just going to buy him two weeks worth of meat. Then the next payday, he can have different kinds of meat.

The meats on my list are...

Whole Duck
Quail
Chicken
Beef
Pork
Lamb
Whole Fish
Whole Cornish Hens

I will also be adding whole Duck, Quail, Turkey & Chicken eggs. How often can I give Bailey an egg? Is once a day too much?

Oh yeah, I also have access to goose - can I feed whole goose? I split all of his whole birds in half so he can have 2 meals in a day.

[.sarah]

Wow, that's a really nice list! Bailey is one lucky puppy! :D

Eggs can be given as often as he can handle them. Some dogs get loose stools from them, so just keep an eye on that. I give them 2-3 times a week here, just because Luka tends to get diarreah from too many.

And goose is fine! I've been wanting to buy it for my crew, but it's just so expensive here.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Wow, that's a really nice list! Bailey is one lucky puppy! :D

Eggs can be given as often as he can handle them. Some dogs get loose stools from them, so just keep an eye on that. I give them 2-3 times a week here, just because Luka tends to get diarreah from too many.

And goose is fine! I've been wanting to buy it for my crew, but it's just so expensive here.

Thanks Sarah! I think I will see how Bailey does with one egg daily. If he get's diarreah, I will cut it down some.

[PinkSunshine]

How often can I give Bailey an egg? Is once a day too much?

I give mine each 1 egg a day with the shells.... But I've been doing that since they were started on a raw diet so they're used to it

[shihtzulover850]

I feed all dry kibble. Raw is a special treat that my dog never gets!! :D :)

[bckrazy]

Bailey's mom, I give Gonzo 2 eggs a day a few days a week, with some goats milk as a meal. He really loves it! He has had no potty problems because of it at all, I also grind the shell in there.

=) Bailey is one lucky pup! Gonzo hasn't even gotten a whole anything yet, but I've ordered a few rabbits that should be here any day.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

=) Bailey is one lucky pup! Gonzo hasn't even gotten a whole anything yet, but I've ordered a few rabbits that should be here any day.

I wish I could find Rabbit around here! Bailey needs 1.2 pounds of food daily, so I will be cutting the whole birds into portions depending on the size. Cornish Hens are pretty small, so he would get those whole. I love the fact that he will get the organs with his whole birds. He had part of a duck today and it took him forever to eat the kidney! He LOVED the liver and heart, maybe the kidney tastes funny? LOL! :D

[.sarah]

He only needs 1.2 lbs? :eek: Buck eats more than that!

Mandy is funny about beef kidney, so I decided to try pork kidney and she liked that. The Labs wouldn't care if I fed them rocks, lol.

[bckrazy]

I ordered a few small, fur-less rabbits from www.hare-today.com :) I also ordered various bones/cuts that aren't very common around here, and that were on sale. They really don't charge very much and shipping was cheap. You can find some good deals on there! I'm also going to start ordering from www.socalbarf.com, they have great prices! But the quantities are HUGE!

Gonzo really dislikes organs! He's super picky. I blend them for him and add them to his milk or veggie meals, and his pre-made also has organs mixed in it.

[Giselle]

I ordered a few small, fur-less rabbits from www.hare-today.com :) I also ordered various bones/cuts that aren't very common around here, and that were on sale. They really don't charge very much and shipping was cheap. You can find some good deals on there! I'm also going to start ordering from www.socalbarf.com, they have great prices! But the quantities are HUGE!

Gonzo really dislikes organs! He's super picky. I blend them for him and add them to his milk or veggie meals, and his pre-made also has organs mixed in it.
WHOA. I had no idea you could order raw rabbits online! Giselle would be HEAVEN if she could lay her teefers on those. It does break my heart to see those bunnies on there, but at least they probably live a life better than a rabbit you'd find in a market. Gissie isn't picky at all. Like .sarah's Labs, she could eat stones and sticks and be perfectly happy (she has consumed several pinecones but that's a different story :p).

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

He only needs 1.2 lbs? :eek: Buck eats more than that!

Bailey isn't active. He'll have a little run and then he's pooped. They say puppies require 10% of their body weight, but then Bailey would need 5 pounds a day! How much should I be feeding a 60 pound, 5 month old Dane? All of the sites I have been to say 1.2 pounds for a normally active dog?

ETA: I just read that he needs 2.5 pounds daily.

[bckrazy]

Bailey's mom, you know best about the amount that is right for Bailey. :) Gonzo's recommended feeding is 1-2 lbs, but he gets .6 lbs and he's great with that!

Sophie, yeah, it's nice because rabbits are something that our dogs would eat if they had to hunt for themselves, and it's good for them. They put the rabbits down humanely... they aren't pet rabbits, they're feed rabbits. Even though it is sad to think about, it's something that is super natural for them, especially hounds! ;) I would never eat a rabbit! Or buy one from a non-licensed or questionable source.

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Bailey's mom, you know best about the amount that is right for Bailey. :) Gonzo's recommended feeding is 1-2 lbs, but he gets .6 lbs and he's great with that!

I will start with the 2.5 pounds and adjust as needed. MANY full grown male Danes eat 2 pounds daily and do awesome on it. :)

[.sarah]

I tried to purchase a few rabbits from them and my mom freaked out that they had the heads on. We have rabbits at the butcher here but they are gutted and without heads. I'll probably try purchasing them again soon, and promise to hide them in the back of the freezer where she won't see them. :rolleyes: :p

Tasha (that is your name, right? :o Sorry I feel bad that I don't know) - 2.5 pounds sounds a lot better! lol. But just watch his weight. My girls get about .75 lbs but the "rule" says they should get 1.5 (just 1.25 for Mandy though). He may gain or lose weight, and you'll just need to adjust the food amounts.

Buck is so friggin' active that I have to feed 1.5-2 lbs a day. :eek:

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Tasha (that is your name, right? :o Sorry I feel bad that I don't know) - 2.5 pounds sounds a lot better! lol. But just watch his weight. My girls get about .75 lbs but the "rule" says they should get 1.5 (just 1.25 for Mandy though). He may gain or lose weight, and you'll just need to adjust the food amounts.

Buck is so friggin' active that I have to feed 1.5-2 lbs a day. :eek:

Yes, my name is Tasha! :) I will do that then, 2.5 pounds and then adjust the amount if he loses/gains weight. I have read that is is VERY easy to tell if a Dane is under/overweight, but Bailey has always looked too skinny in my eyes. He may just look skinny because he is literally ALL legs! He weighs 60 pounds, I just can't seem to imagine where all the weight is.

[.sarah]

Woo hoo! We bought a freezer yesterday! It's actually a "freezerator". It is built just for the garage. It is about 16 cu ft of freezer on the bottom and 5 cu ft of refrigerator or freezer on the top! Really cool. Of course I wanted just a freezer, but my parents compromised since we'll be getting rid of the garage fridge anyway. I'm really excited. It's supposed to be here Tuesday, and then I'm going to place an order for some whole rabbits, lamb parts, buffalo parts, etc. the same day! :D :D :D

[Crazy-Cat-Lover]

Woo hoo! We bought a freezer yesterday! It's actually a "freezerator". It is built just for the garage. It is about 16 cu ft of freezer on the bottom and 5 cu ft of refrigerator or freezer on the top! Really cool. Of course I wanted just a freezer, but my parents compromised since we'll be getting rid of the garage fridge anyway. I'm really excited. It's supposed to be here Tuesday, and then I'm going to place an order for some whole rabbits, lamb parts, buffalo parts, etc. the same day! :D :D :D

That's great news! My uncle gave us a deep freeze and we just plugged it in. It's nice, since I just packed 33 freezer bags of chicken leg quarters. They wouldn't have fit in my regular freezer. :D

[.sarah]

I have a really tiny freezer right now. It's 6 cu ft, and I am only allowed to use 3-4 cu ft because I share it with my family. This new one is 15 cu ft on the bottom, so it's about 5x the size of what I can use right now. :D I'm trying to put together an order right now from a farmer who humanely raises and kills their animals! I love that now that I have a large freezer I can also support small farms who treat their animals right instead of factory farms :D