Feminization operations

[catnapper]

I was watching a show today on Discovery Health about feminization operations. I was amazed at the amount of surgeries men go through to be feminized. This is NOT the surgery to make them into women.... more like a makeover so they could live their lives as women. They shave the eyebrow bone with a drill-like saw, shave down the Adams Apple, stretch vocal chords, add cheek implants, add lip implants, etc etc etc.

Anyhow, they commented on how most men that are in gay relationships while undergoing surgery often lose their lover afterwards. I was wondering why that would be so. If they loved the person BEFORE the surgery, why should the same love die after the surgery. I mean Joe may now call himself (or herself) Joanne, but its STILL the same person underneath the surgery. Do the men now feel that their gay lover is no longer a man and dump them? WHY? He's still the same person they loved, only with a different face (and perhaps more cleavage ) To me, it seems hypocritcal that they'd break up with that person... after all, they always only wanted the right to be happy and love whomever they want to love. Now, here they are, one man dating Joe (who never hid his desire to live life passing as a woman in society), Joe has all the extensive surgeries done, and became Joanne... and now his lover leave him? Technically, Joanne is still a man, passing as a woman. How was that different than before when Joe was only taking hormones? I'm confused! Anyone following me?

Please, help me figure this out. Please do not turn this into another "gay is wrong" thread. I'm not debating homosexality, just wondering WHY a gay lover would leave after one person in the couple decided to change their outer appearance to make themselves feel better about themselves.

A similar example for straight people: one member of a couple takes drastic action and undergoes gastric bypass surgery to lose 200 pounds. I've heard that often is the case where the spouse leaves after this surgery too... is it because they can't handle the improved confidence of their lover/spouse? I mean, its still the same person that they were before the surgery; they merely shed layer of fat and now live life that fits into society better. Isn't that we all want? Happiness, confidence, freedom to express ourselves as we see ourselves? Why would their mate leave?

Ack! I'm confusing myself and rambling... you get the point!

[Luvin Labs]

I get what you mean, and it doesn't make sense to me either. They are the same individual on the inside, same thoughts/attitudes/etc. Just a little different on the outside.

I would compare it to, say, a woman getting something done to herself (whether it be a boob larger/reduction, tummy tuck, etc) and later on her b/f/hubby breaks up with her.

Makes NO sense. at all.

Unless the person who got the surgery done personality changed greatly after the procedure. That would be the only thing to make sense.

[lady_zana]

The best way to understand it would be to read the book "She's Not There" by Jennifer Flynn Boyle. It's about a Male-to-Female transsexual (MTF) who underwent a sex change operation. Even though the men who you are speaking of are not undergoing a complete change, She's Not There details how the more feminine Jennifer became, the more she became a new person, the person she'd always wanted to be. However, that person wasn't the person her wife had orginally married. Many transsexuals (if the men undergoing these fem. operations are indeed transsexual) put forward a 'face' that is not truly them; they feel afraid to present themselves as who they are. Just as Jennifer's wife had to reconsider her role in their marriage and the man she had once been married too, the lovers of these men have to decide if their new 'feminized' partner is still the same 'man' they loved. Having such an operation is stressful and puts both partners through many rough changes and decisions. Sometimes, their orginal partners may decide the stress and changes are simply too much to live with and they end the relationship.

[IRescue452]

If your partner went through surgeries and became a completely different person (usually mentally as well as physically), would you rethink your relationship? Many many many more (almost all) straight couples would break up with their partner, even though its the same person underneath.

[LKPike]

I believe one reason is because the partner feels "lied" to. How can someone be one day a full man, with male features, and a "male" personality; the next day just "up and decide" to look, 'act', and BE a woman? You'd feel lied to, and betrayed.

Other reasons could be they don't know how to accept it, how to deal with it, how to get to know this "new" person.

The issue with better confidence and self esteem could be it.

And of course, we're talking of gay couples. A man who is attracted to other men obviously does not want to date a woman even if "she" does have male parts. If that were the case what would stop him from dating an actual woman with a strap-on? Thats not it. A homosexual man wants to be with another homosexual man. Not with a transexual or man who wishes to be a woman. That would make it a heterosexual relationship.

[popcornbird]

Just the thought of someone messing around with their body and trying to change their gender would make me run....

...FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR away from them.



I don't like people who are not satisfied with who they are, and want to change or disfigure themselves to that extent...period.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Sorry...if my husband came home and said....I am really a woman and...although I am going to keep my nether region...I am going to become a woman in all other respects....would I still love him...sure...would I want to be married to him....well...I'm thinking not.

No different.

[catnapper]

But here the difference is, when Joe met Dave (or whatever their names might be) Joe always talked to Dave about how he wants to live as a woman, pass in society as a woman, BE a woman. Joe even took hormones to start feminizing. So when Joe takes steps to make his dream come true, why would Dave feel challenged/left out/lied to? It wouldn't be a surprise.

I'd probably pass out if my husband came homeand announced he wanted to be a woman -- because he has always loved being a man. I know my husband's dreams and inner self... he is a man through and through. I'd not blink an eye if he came home one day telling me he quit his job to take a job as a college soccer coach for $3,000 a year. Sure we'd be living in a cardboard box, but I at least know what his dream is and I'd support him through the change in career and help him follow his dream of becoming who/what he thinks would make him happiest.

[gini]

This really isn't answering your question.........I am just sharing a situation I witnessed first hand.

I worked with a "man" in the graphic arts field. He had strong desires to become a woman........a woman in every way.

Through a long series of operations - he became "she".........

After he was a she for a while ----- "she" discovered that "she"
was really attracted to women.

And we think we have problems.

[lady_zana]

Originally posted by popcornbird
Just the thought of someone messing around with their body and trying to change their gender would make me run....

...FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR away from them.



I don't like people who are not satisfied with who they are, and want to change or disfigure themselves to that extent...period.

Being transgendered and wanting to change your gender is NOT the same as wanting a nose job or wanting a boob job. A woman can live with smaller breasts; a person can live with a crooked nose and everything will be fine. Being transgendered means you live with an ache inside you because your body doesn't match your feelings. Many transsexuals end up killing themselves because they suffer from severe depression. Scientists aren't entirely sure what causes transsexuality but they believe it to be a birth defect from a sudden change in hormones in the womb. Whatever causes it, most know from the time they are children that something is 'wrong' with them and for many, the operation is the only way they can free themselves.

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by Edwina's Secretary
Sorry...if my husband came home and said....I am really a woman and...although I am going to keep my nether region...I am going to become a woman in all other respects....would I still love him...sure...would I want to be married to him....well...I'm thinking not.

No kidding ... I'm thinking NOT in a big way. I would wish him all the happiness in the world, but stay married to him? No.



I think a lot times, though, in a case not so drastic as the above mentioned .... for example, extreme weight loss by one partner ... the person who lost the weight really DOES become a different person. Whereas you used to have two people who enjoyed spending their time together eating fattening food and sitting around on the couch watching TV .... now suddenly you have one person still wanting to do that and one person wanting to go to the gym, take a walk and have a salad.

Trust me on this ... I'm going through it right now with my boyfriend. (Soon to be ex, I'm thinking.) Since September, I have lost almost 80 pounds, by eating better and going to the gym. My bf has NO desire to do either one. He resents that I have this new interest that takes up my time, he resents that men are now checking me out or flirting with me (like that's MY fault??). And, frankly, I am starting to resent that he seems so very unable/unwilling to at least accept - or preferably take part in - a healthier lifestyle. Am I the same person I was? Yes ... and no.

[LorraineO]

I think a lot times, though, in a case not so drastic as the above mentioned .... for example, extreme weight loss by one partner ... the person who lost the weight really DOES become a different person. [/B][/QUOTE]


ummm nooo,, not all of us who lose weight change,,, I have lost 145 lbs and I am still the same person... the only thing that changed with me was my own personal eating habits,, I still love to sit and watch TV, eat popcorn and hang out doing some of thebadstuff,, lol lol,,, but I havent changed .. so I just want to clarify,, not ALL people change drastically or even enuff for anyone else to notice

[Twisterdog]

Originally posted by LorraineO
so I just want to clarify,, not ALL people change drastically or even enuff for anyone else to notice

I know that. That's why I said "a lot of times" not "ALL the time."

[NoahsMommy]

I agree with the others, it would seem the operations would cause a change in the patient...

lady_zane....thanks for the book recommendation. It sounds really interesting. I find when I learn about things I don't understand, it helps me not to judge people.

[lady_zana]

Originally posted by NoahsMommy
I agree with the others, it would seem the operations would cause a change in the patient...

lady_zane....thanks for the book recommendation. It sounds really interesting. I find when I learn about things I don't understand, it helps me not to judge people.

You're welcome. It's a wonderful book; I've recommended it to several people who are curious about transsexualism/transgenderism. I checked it out of my university library and took it back in two days because I'd went and bought my own copy. I've written a few times to Boylan and she's a truly wonderful person.