Doberman Skin Problems

[Pit Chick]

And just because a dog was bred for outside work, doesn't mean it has to live outside. What good is that "guard dog" in the backyard when someone kicks in your FRONT door? People who work outside don't necessarily want to live out there. Who doesn't like a change of scenary? And I guess since Pit Bulls were bred to rip each other apart in a pit, then that's where they should live, huh?

[Kelly McMackin]

My dogs have no complaints that they live outside either. Since you know so much about this topic you tell me how I'm supposed to take three dogs that have lived outside all of their lives with free rein to go where they want and put them inside and make them stay there all day; i'm talking from 7:30 am - 6:30 pm by themselves...woo wee that sounds like fun, I'm sure they will just love laying in the house watching tv all day instead of being out in the sunshine so they can go swim in our pond, or go rest under a big shade tree...maybe i should hire a baby sitter to come over and watch them too! This is getting ridiculous, you know your dogs and I know mine and i'm telling you they don't want to stay in the darn house and i'm not going to move them in, they have their own house and don't need to live in mine. What do you mean dogs don't need acres??? Sure they do, that way they don't get run over by cars or stolen by someone who doesn't have anything better to do. And when it comes to my allergies and my step sons, you don't know either of us or the heck that we've been through getting his allergies under control that are 110% worse than mine; so you don't have to try and get personal with me and I would appreciate it if you didn't. Tell ya what, how about you just don't reply to me since you don't have anything kind to say.

[wolflady]

This does sound like dermatitis to me. While it might be a good idea to go to a different vet for a second opinion, it sounds like they are doing what most vets would do for dermatitis...bath, antibiotics etc.

However, I have a section up on my Vet Hospital's website about diet tips for dogs that might be worth trying. It's really amazing how many health, skin, random problems can be solved by diet alone. :-)

Please feel free to take a look at: http://www.gilroyvet.com/564460.html for tips from my veterinarian.

I know that the lighter colored dobies tend to be more susceptable to skin conditions then the darker variety, so it's very possible that your dog's skin condition is caused by allergies (food or something outside). If it's a food allergy, the tips outlined on the web page should help you.

Good luck!
**hugs**

[Pit Chick]

I don't see anything unkind about what I said. Don't get upset because I made a point that you don't want to hear. I'm sorry you and your step son have allergies, but how would bringing the dogs inside make them worse than when y'all go outside where the pollen is in the air everywhere? You could install a doggy door so your dogs can make the choice to be inside or outside. Like I said, if you don't think living outside is so bad for the dogs, why don't you go out and live with them and see how much more "fun" that is. A pet sitter isn't a bad idea, people do it, especially those who live in apartments and work all day. They have a pet sitter or dog walker come over and take their dogs out and keep them company for a little while. And as rediculous as it sounds, people even take their dogs to daycare so they can play with other dogs and still be inside.

You want to know how to make outside dogs into inside dogs, just don't make them go outside. Give them the option of coming and going. Once they see they get to be with you more when they are inside, they don't get bitten by bugs, they aren't shivering from the cold or panting from the heat and they have a soft, dry, clean bed, they adjust. Just because your dogs wag their tails when you go outside with them doesn't mean they are happy to be outside, it means they are happy to see you.

[Scooby4]

This is ridicolous. The people in here who are saying keep the dogs inside are also including instructions on how to do it. A little judgemental?
I also find it incredible that these people encourage keeping your dogs inside as if part of the household but most likely keep their hamsters in a glass cage. How natural is that? Didn't someone mention people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?
Keeping dogs outside isn't ghetto or abusive to them. This is their natural habitat. If it wasn't, they'd found a way to install cable tv outside by now!
Get real and don't pass judgement on the situation each person lives with when owning their pets. Inside or outside it doesn't matter as long as they are loved and fed!!!

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Scooby4
This is their natural habitat.

There hasn't been anything "natural" about dogs since man created dog breeds. These aren't wolves we're talking about. Humans took on the dog as their "pack" and by keeping a dog separated from it's pack by forcing it to live outside while the human lives inside is unnatural. Like bckrazy said, why get a dog if it's just going to be a backyard ornament that only gets attention when YOU want to give it to them.

[Scooby4]

I just wonder how many animals would be put to death today because a potential owner had to keep the dog in a fenced backyard and wasn't allowed to adopt? Sounds like the body of these dead dogs/cats would make better "Yard Ornaments" than live ones with food, water, and shelter.
How dare someone judge that because a dog or cat is kept outside it isn't loved and just for decoration? I know plenty of rescue organizations that keep kennels outside for their animals. Hunters keep their dogs in kennels outside. Heck, most farmers keep a dog outside for protection of their chicken coups.
Are you telling us that I must have my dog with me 24/7 to make me a good owner? Yet, you recommend a dog sitter or doggy door? Those are times we aren't with our dogs. I wonder if someone sees your dog outside after using the doggy door that your just own that dog as an ornament?
If dogs weren't meant to be outside then why the coat of hair? The ability to hunt wildlife for food... and running in packs? Mmm... maybe god was thinking?

[Kelly McMackin]

Tell ya what Pit Chick; living with them out in the building wouldn't be bad at all if you want to get smart here; there is electric in the building, space heater to hook up if it's cold and a fan to turn on if it gets warm, a concrete floor, three extra large dogs beds (guess i'll need to get another one ), clean blankets, running water, and plenty of room to jump and play; all i will need to do is get some cable hooked up out there so we can watch Animal Planet together. Doesn't sound to bad to me.
When i hit the lottery i'll hire that dog sitter and those professsional cleaners that can clean my house all day and keep the dog hair up since our doctors told us not to have any animals with hair in the house to try and keep "our air" as clean as possible in the house without pet hair, pet dander, pollen, etc. A doggy door is not an option either, my dogs are big time hunters and personally i don't want "their prizes" strung all around in my house like they are in my yard, it's not a real pretty site and it's nasty enough having to pick "the prizes" out of the yard with a shovel and throw them in the dumpster.
How do you know your dogs are happy? Maybe they sit around and complain to one another about being stuck inside all day....You don't know my dogs; i've raised them from pups and they love it outside. How do I know this you ask? Because they have the option to leave and never come back every single day and you know what....they don't; they have never wondered to far from home. They are always there when I get home from work each and every day. They greet me at my car and we "hang out" inside or out until it's time for supper; they eat after we do just in case there are some yummy leftovers to top off their food. I believe if they weren't happy they would have found somewhere better to be by now. I agree with Scooby, inside or out, as long as they are shown plenty of love and affection and they get plenty of food in their tummies i think life is pretty good for them. Heck, my dogs have it better than a lot of people.

Wolflady - Thank you so much for your vet website; there is some great info on there. I really appreciate it!

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Scooby4
I just wonder how many animals would be put to death today because a potential owner had to keep the dog in a fenced backyard and wasn't allowed to adopt?

Why do you think those animals are in the shelter being put to death? They didn't just walk into the shelter and say 'I think I want to die today'. The ones that weren't turned over by the owners were picked up as strays that were either allowed to run free or stuck in a backyard 24/7 and had enough of that life. My dogs don't really want to live in the house, they just stand at the back door barking to come in for fun And my fosters must hate being inside after a lifetime outside, that's why they barge through the door the second it's open. I mean heck, I'm sure they would be much happier outside in 100 heat in the shade during the day and a bazillion masquitos biting them at night. And I'm sure during the winter that single layer coat will keep them real warm.
How much wildlife does your dog hunt for food Scooby? And what pack does your dog run with? Seeing as how humans have become the pack, doesn't it make sense that they should be with their pack? But gee, it's a little hard for them to be with their pack when they are stuck out in the yard 24/7.

[Scooby4]

It takes a really sick person to assume a dog being kept outside is just a yard ornament. What do you think of horses in fields? A trophy?
Assuming mistreatment of animals is a big assumption and done by very small judgemental people. What do you think when you drive by a homeless person? They should be inside your house 24/7? It's okay for a homeless person to sleep outside but not a dog? If your so concerned about a dog being outside, then you should have no problem allowing a homeless person live with you too!
By the way, my next door neighbor has 2 rescued fawn colored Dobies. They are kept outside with cover and are really great dogs! However, my other neighbor next door has 3 yippee yappee pomeranians they keep inside and they are the MOST uncontrollable loud dogs in the neighborhood. The owner's mistreat them and use them as trophy dogs. So don't tell me that inside dogs aren't trophies and kept as ornaments for the owners. I often feel sorry for those dogs as they NEVER get the attention as the Dobie's do. And they are outside ALL the time!

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4

I also find it incredible that these people encourage keeping your dogs inside as if part of the household but most likely keep their hamsters in a glass cage.

I don't have a hamster. And people who do have hamsters, probably keep them in cages/enclosures because they dont want the hamster getting trapped in walls, or running out the door and getting eaten, or getting stepped on anyway.. thats off topic. It also isn't natural that we keep dogs as pets! We crossed the line of "nature" when we domesticated dogs. When people worked outside all the time, it was much more understandable that their dogs were primarily outside. People also didn't realize or care about all of the myriad health problems an "outside" dog risks, including skin problems due to weather, bug bites, sun, wind, rain, etc. Now, most people are inside 80-100% of the day and very little contact or love is shared with their "outside" dogs. That's why I generally believe that dogs should be where their people are - inside or out.

I completely, 100% agree with Pit Chick!! Dogs crave inside time with their people, even if its just a few hours a day and at night to sleep. I did not recommend that your dogs spend their entire days inside. It is wonderful that they have a farm to run around on, I wish I had 350 acres for my dog. That doesn't mean that it's in their best interest, healthwish and tempermentally, to sit outside 24/7/365! I know many, many wonderful Border Collie breeders and owners, who have acreage and own working dogs. Their dogs work with them during the day, and sleep with them at night. Why? Because they want their dogs to fully respect, love, protect, and be loyal to them. Forcing your dogs to live outside their entire lives give them a sense of being apart from your pack and your house, they form their own pack and naturally that makes them less social. I do think it'd be very beneficial to your dogs that you began introducing them to spending time in the house. No - Dobermans were not bred to sit outside and be guard dogs, they were bred as a companion, and their coat and structure is not designed for harsh weather.

Ok, obviously, the reason I suggest that your Dobe is an inside dog, is because he is an older dog experiencing health problems. In order to more easily monitor his health, apply and give medications, protect his skin from the damaging affects of weather and bugs and dirt, it would be best to keep him inside with supervised walks and time outside. And as for your dogs never having been acquainted with living inside with their people, that is your fault, not theirs. I honestly do think keeping your sick Doberman inside would help his condition, and you asked for advice, so you got it

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4
It takes a really sick person to assume a dog being kept outside is just a yard ornament. What do you think of horses in fields? A trophy?
Assuming mistreatment of animals is a big assumption and done by very small judgemental people. What do you think when you drive by a homeless person? They should be inside your house 24/7? It's okay for a homeless person to sleep outside but not a dog? If your so concerned about a dog being outside, then you should have no problem allowing a homeless person live with you too!
By the way, my next door neighbor has 2 rescued fawn colored Dobies. They are kept outside with cover and are really great dogs! However, my other neighbor next door has 3 yippee yappee pomeranians they keep inside and they are the MOST uncontrollable loud dogs in the neighborhood. The owner's mistreat them and use them as trophy dogs. So don't tell me that inside dogs aren't trophies and kept as ornaments for the owners. I often feel sorry for those dogs as they NEVER get the attention as the Dobie's do. And they are outside ALL the time!

I dont even understand most of this. Whatever. I have no idea what homeless people have to do with this.... I'm pretty sure those homeless people would MUCH prefer sleeping inside in a warm bed. Horses are obviously livestock, and probably couldn't fit through the door of a house. Most dogs only serve the purpose of being a PET. Why does anyone need a PET if the only purpose it serves is to sit outside? Would YOU like to sit outside in a yard all day, with barely 10-20 minutes of attention from the owner that you devote your life to? The reason I refered to keeping a dog outside 24/7 as keeping it as a backyard ornament, is because 99% of the time (as far as I've seen, and I have volunteered for rescues and shelters for 4 years) when people keep their dogs in the backyard, the dogs are alone out there, just for looks, or for the person's own sick enjoyment. Big deal if they go out to feed them and spend 10 minutes with them. The dogs needs are often overlooked, they're undersocialized and waay underexercised. The fact is, there are good owners and neglectful owners. SOME situations are better for the dog to be outside (healthy working dogs, people who work outside with them). MOST are not, in the suburban/city world we live in.

Also, I wanted to add that MY wonderful, amazingly reliable Border Collie was once also a wreck in the house. We got him at 8 months old from people who owned a cattle ranch and bred him, who kept him outside 24/7, in a barn with other dogs. He had fear issues (especially with other dogs), food guarding issues, he was unsure in all new situations, he was neurotic, un-housetrained and he had never heard a vaccum or any other normal household noise. After thorough, consistent housetraining he didn't have a single accident after the first week. We gave him plenty of one-on-one attention, and exercised him frequently, along with providing more chewies, bones and toys than he needed. He chewed on a door frame once, but with a little bit of effort and direction he never destroyed anything. Me and Gonzo also attented Obedience classes for about 1 year straight, then follow-up classes. He is an awesome dog now, and he LOVES his life... he's no longer neurotic, destructive, fearful, or anything. I'm sure Benji could be a model doggy too, with a little bit of effort. Obedience classes, crate training, and plenty of exercise would definitely help her. I couldn't ever imagine keeping my dog outside, he would absolutely die. He loves being with his family, recieving that special attention, and being in the middle of everything, and we love him too.

[bckrazy]

some links that every dog owner should read and think about...

http://www.iwclubofamerica.org/outside_dogs.htm

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/articles.html

[bckrazy]

Originally posted by Scooby4
I wonder if someone sees your dog outside after using the doggy door that your just own that dog as an ornament?

I'm sorry I keep quoting you and replying. I'm supposed to be doing homework ( ) right now but this is kind of mindset really disturbs me. The reason we refer to these dogs as "Lawn Ornaments" is the fact that they sit outside miserably night and day. I could (and have before) scream at some of my nieghbors, whose dogs are kept outside only... I know one family who lives one block away from me, who had an "outside dog". He was a cream/white Husky, who was very energetic and playful, but was kept in their backyard day and night, with little contact, no training, no stimulation or exercise or fun outings. Several times when I was walking Gonzo, he had gotten out and came after Gonzo, I could tell he only wanted to play but he had no social skills at all with other dogs and he was fearful and agressive. The man would sometimes keep him in a small kennel. I recently found at that, while we had been remodeling our house and moved into a rental, that dog bit some kids when he had gotten out and was put to sleep by animal control. THAT is a lawn ornament, we don't mean that literally, just that the dog basically just sits in the yard and serves no purpose. Dogs want a purpose and a pack and a family and a warm place to sleep, which the vast majority of outdoor dogs do not experience. I cannot understand why you don't see this.

[Pit Chick]

Originally posted by Scooby4
It takes a really sick person to assume a dog being kept outside is just a yard ornament. What do you think of horses in fields? A trophy?
Assuming mistreatment of animals is a big assumption and done by very small judgemental people. What do you think when you drive by a homeless person? They should be inside your house 24/7? It's okay for a homeless person to sleep outside but not a dog? If your so concerned about a dog being outside, then you should have no problem allowing a homeless person live with you too!

You're not comparing apples to apples with the horses and dogs.

No one was assuming there was any mistreatment of animals going on, don't read more into it than what has been said.

What I think when I drive by a homeless person is, 'they have shelters they can go to for help where they won't be euthanized like an animal would for being homeless'. They can get help, but instead choose to sit on the corner begging for money which they will in turn buy beer, cigarettes, and/or drugs with. If they wanted help, they could get it, but then that would mean giving up handouts and drugs. My uncle tried to offer a homeless guy some work at his shop and when he told him how much he could pay him, the guy said, "I make more than that standing on the corner with my sign." I help homeless animals, because they can't get jobs to support themselves, homeless people can if they wanted too.