Millie's issues with larger dogs

[micki76]

As some of you may already know, Millie has issues with dogs that are larger than her. She also has a bit of separation anxiety in that she appears to think that we are taking her to a new home (or something else horrible) whenever we go in the car or to Petsmart (we adopted her from a group at Petsmart).

I’d like to get her over her big dog fear. My husband has suggested that we put her in doggie daycare for a while and see if it helps her with larger dogs. I don’t want to traumatize her anymore, so I don’t know if this is the way to approach this problem. Her last owners dropped her at the pound because of all her behavioral issues, many of which we have overcome, I just don’t want her to think the doggie daycare is like us dumping her at the pound. I also don’t want to surround her with large dogs if it’s going to make her fear worse.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Carrie? Aly? Help!

[aly]

I think doggie daycare is a wonderful idea as long as it is a reputable one. You can start by just leaving her there a couple hours at a time instead of a full day. She will definately be nervous and scared the first few times, but hopefully after that she'll feel more comfortable (and know that you will eventually be back to get her).

If it were me, I'd tackle one problem at a time though. The doggy daycare will make her nervous because of the seperation anxiety AND because of larger dogs. I would try to address one or the other myself before putting her in a situation like that.

If you have any friends with medium sized, gentle dogs, you could start exposing Millie to them. I would start out with dogs who are just slightly bigger than her and work your way up. Try to make sure (I know you can never be 100% sure) that its not a dog that Millie will have a negative experience with. Ideally, probably a calmer dog with good dog manners.

[rotten_two]

some doggie day cares have separate small dog areas. depending on how the day care is set up they may also have staff available to watch millie and note her stress level. that way if she gets to stressed they can separate her in a run or something to give her a break.

i have mixed feelings about ddc. i would talk to the proprietor and maybe even observe before i put my dog into their care. my gaia has some stress and sep issues and she does well at day care, but the guy who runs it knows how to read dog body language so i feel he is able to prevent problems before they occur. in the wrong hands ddc could make mille worse so just be careful to ask lots of questions.

[micki76]

I don’t know that many people here with dogs that are much larger than Millie. She’s actually good around Bob, my Dad’s dog (he lives with my sister now). Everyone else I know has very large dogs or dogs her size.

She actually doesn’t’ have true separation anxiety; only when we take her somewhere, not when we leave the house. She just thinks we aren’t coming back to get her from any strange place.

I just don’t want to damage her more than she already is. lol I actually know of a fantastic daycare and the trainer there has helped us with a LOT of her problems. I think I’ll him and bother him again.

[stacwase]

I think if you were to go to a few places and act like you were leaving, then come right back and get her, you might help her over her separation anxiety. You could stay gone longer and longer each time. As far as the large dogs go - I don't know how you'll do it if you don't have friends who can lend you their large dogs. Perhaps you can socialize her at doggie kindergarten or obedience classes?

[aly]

Next time we meet, you'll have to have Millie meet Lolly!

[lv4dogs]

A reputable doggy day care is an excellent suggestion. Ask tons of questions & visit lots before joining. And like mentioned some offer seperated groups & maybe they can call you if a problem occurs or she is under too musch stress & you can pick her up right away. And yes I would start off by leaving her for just a couple hours, then work your way up to a full day. If you know no one that has big dogs that is about your only choice to get her used to big dogs.

It sounds as if she has a fear of riding in cars or what not, as seperation anxiety iss just that, anxiety that happens when your seperated, since you are together in the car it sounds as if she has a different anxiety. Does she go elsewhere besides pet smart? I would take her everywhere possible w/ you, even while running errands. If she is very very very nervous in the car then I would start off slow, just sit w/ her in the car in your driveway IGNORE HER WHEN SHE ACTS ANXIOUS, PRAISE WHEN SHE IS CALM ALWAYS!!!! Then sart up the car for a few days, not going anywhere just sitting in the driveway, then go to the end of the driveway, then around the block, etc... etc... When she starts to improve then move to the next step. If she regresses then go back to the last step & start again from there. Also try to make the outings fun, drive down the street to park to take her for walks instead of leaving from your house, go to the park. Alwyas remeber to praise when she is calm.

I wish you guys the best of luck!!!

[KYS]

posted by aly :If it were me, I'd tackle one problem at a time though. The doggy daycare will make her nervous because of the seperation anxiety AND because of larger dogs.


I also agree with everything Aly said.

I think the doggie day care is an great idea,
but I am worried she might suffer anxiety too.
I would also make sure you find the most melow,
and friendly dogs to introduce her too.
It only takes one incident to set all your hard work
back.
Good luck!

[lv4dogs]

are there any dog parks in your area? If so maybe first visit w/o millie & get to know people w/ gentle big dogs to introduce to millie. Allmost all dog lovers will help you.

[micki76]

No dog park here. There’s one in Plano, but it’s pretty crowded.

I’m going to call Francisco tomorrow and see what he says. He knows both dogs pretty well, so he should be able to help decide a good course of action.

Aly, I wish you and I lived closer to each other!

[Twisterdog]

Well, personally, I think dogs should be forced to do only the tramatic things that they absolutely have to do.

All my dogs have to go to the vet, so I force them all to get aclimated to that. I take the scared ones with me whenever I have to take another one to the vet, just to make them go. I have some dogs, though, that would prefer never to leave the house. They are very timid, and just want to stay home in their same old routine. Ok, fine with me. As long as they can handle going to the vet, I'm not going to force them to go the the store or the park or to my friend's house. Why do it? It's not worth it if it's not crucial.

You could spend a lot of time and effort acclimating your dog to be ok with going to Petsmart, if that's what you want to do. If it's important to you that she go there well, then, by all means, work with her. But, if it really doesn't matter that much to you, I'd say let her be.

Same with big dogs. You could spend a lot of time, effort and frustration getting her to get along with a particular big dog. It might work fine. But she might not get along with the next big dog she meets, or the one after that. If it is important to you that she get along with one particular large dog, then, by all mean, work with her. But, she's probably never going to completely overcome it.

I think, having rescued and fostered umpteen dozens of dogs over the years, that I have learned a little about quirky dog behavior. We will never know everything our rescued dogs went through. We will never "fix" them completely. It is our responsilbity to discover their fears, phobias and quirk, and work through the ones we can easily help them overcome. The very complex, deeply rooted ones that just 'stick' ... well, I think our responsibility there lies in creating a safe environment for our dog, given those fears. If a dog is afraid of and bites children, it is our responsibility to keep children away from the dog, and the dog away from children. We can't expect to 'fix' the problem, we can only control the environment.

[micki76]

Originally posted by Twisterdog
Well, personally, I think dogs should be forced to do only the tramatic things that they absolutely have to do.

All my dogs have to go to the vet, so I force them all to get aclimated to that. I take the scared ones with me whenever I have to take another one to the vet, just to make them go. I have some dogs, though, that would prefer never to leave the house. They are very timid, and just want to stay home in their same old routine. Ok, fine with me. As long as they can handle going to the vet, I'm not going to force them to go the the store or the park or to my friend's house. Why do it? It's not worth it if it's not crucial.

You could spend a lot of time and effort acclimating your dog to be ok with going to Petsmart, if that's what you want to do. If it's important to you that she go there well, then, by all means, work with her. But, if it really doesn't matter that much to you, I'd say let her be.

Same with big dogs. You could spend a lot of time, effort and frustration getting her to get along with a particular big dog. It might work fine. But she might not get along with the next big dog she meets, or the one after that. If it is important to you that she get along with one particular large dog, then, by all mean, work with her. But, she's probably never going to completely overcome it.

I think, having rescued and fostered umpteen dozens of dogs over the years, that I have learned a little about quirky dog behavior. We will never know everything our rescued dogs went through. We will never "fix" them completely. It is our responsilbity to discover their fears, phobias and quirk, and work through the ones we can easily help them overcome. The very complex, deeply rooted ones that just 'stick' ... well, I think our responsibility there lies in creating a safe environment for our dog, given those fears. If a dog is afraid of and bites children, it is our responsibility to keep children away from the dog, and the dog away from children. We can't expect to 'fix' the problem, we can only control the environment.

She’s actually ok once we’re in Petsmart. It’s mostly the ride to Petsmart, or the ride to the vet or where ever. It’s the riding mainly that’s traumatic. She can become acclimated to large dogs, of that I’m sure. She has overcome SO many fears since she came to us nearly a year ago. She’s an amazing little trooper.

Francisco’s going to work with us and help get her comfortable in the car and around large dogs. We’ll be “in training” for several weekends with him and his dogs and a few others from the training center of varying sizes. He fully believes that she will overcome this quickly. The only thing we haven’t been able to stop is her jumping when we come home. We’ve all three given up on that one. She ain’t budging on it a bit and we’ve tried everything known to man.

[aly]

When I adopted Lolly, she came from an extremely abusive situation that she lived with for the first 5 years of her life. She would have been happy not leaving my house and just hiding under the coffee table whenever people came over.

Even though she would have liked to live her life that way, I decided to desensitize her to strangers, unfamiliar situations, and places other than my own home. It really has been for her best interest. Sure, she goes through mild stress during our exercises. But eventually she does get better and used to different things. We can now go to the park and run and jump and play. Strangers can now pet her - she doesn't ENJOY it but she tolerates it and may be starting to even like it a little. All this as opposed to when she used to flip over and pee on herself and scream if we just left the house.

All in all, I believe in putting a dog through the mild stress it takes to acclimate them to these situations. It allows them to lead a fuller, healthier life.

[clara4457]

Micki - is it possible Millie gets carsick? Is that why she is so stressed in the car. Penny gets very anxious in the car also. Come to find out - she gets carsick. One time on a longer trip than usual - she vomited in the car. Now I only take her in the car if necessary and then on only short trips. If I have to take her any a longer trip - I will get dramamine (sp?) from my vet.

[lizbud]

Originally posted by aly
[B

All in all, I believe in putting a dog through the mild stress it takes to acclimate them to these situations. It allows them to lead a fuller, healthier life. [/B]

I agree with this 100%.

If you had many dogs with issues like this, it could be easier
to just cater to their individual fears. Just help them cope day
to day. Helping her overcome some of her major fears does
make for a happier dog. Best of luck with Millie.