Another Sheltie Question

[LadyDove]

My sweet Cody crossed the rainbow bridge about 6 years ago. Since then I have been busy helping raise my grandson, so another sheltie is out of the question for the time being besides the fact, we have Honeybear, and Lucky. Oh Cody's rightful name was Cody's Star Traveler. His dad was Lukes Arkansas Traveler and his mom was Sophie Abralia Star. Hense the name Cody's Star Traveler. Anyway he was average size but not show quality. Loved him to pieces. Now a friend has such a small sheltie, that he called it a teacup sheltie. Is there such a thing. I have seen these little shelties before so I know their around. I asked a handler at a pet store and she said there was no such breed that I had to just look for a small sheltie and get a pup from that. I do plan on getting one again. They are the most loyal beauties. I just miss my Cody soooo much. Oh he was tri colored. My niece said she would scan a pic of him so I can post it .

[Dogz]

I do not think that there is such of a breed as a Teacup Sheltie. They are just different size ranges.

[Shelteez2]

There is absolutely no such thing as a teacup sheltie. Just as there is no such thing as a tea cup any breed.
Anytime the lable tea cup is attached to a breed it is just a gimmick made by byb's and puppy mills trying to make their dogs more appealing to the public.
Shelties should be 13 - 16 inches tall (this is measured from the ground to the withers [where the neck meets the back]). Shelties though are a relatively new breed as compared to a breed such as a lab or a greyhound or saluki, and they do not breed true to type yet. This means that in one litter you can have pups that are huge and over the breed standard and you can have pups that are tiny and under the breed standard. My dogs are both over sized. Breeders are really struggling with size. That is why no responsible breeder will breed a dog that is over or under the standard. My male sheltie Clipse was supposed to be a show dog, but he got too big.
IMO you should run far far away from anyone trying to sell you a so called tea cup sheltie.

[binka_nugget]

Shelteez2 hit the bull's eye. There's no such thing as a tea-cup sheltie. The sheltie standard calls for 13-16 inches (as she stated) but oversized shelties aren't hard to spot. It's those collie genes acting up (or so I've heard). I just measured my boys again to make sure that my past measurements were correct (and it turns out I was wrong). Kai, my youngest, is a little over 17 inches. Kaedyn, our older and newest addition, stands at 15.5 inches. I've seen a 12 inch sheltie not too long ago. He was TINY compared to Kai. You'll find alot of variations in this breed. Kai, has floppy ears, is too tall and his coat's wavy. Kaedyn, has near perfect 1/3 tipped ears, a very nice gait and very nice coat.

Just make sure you don't fall for the "tea-cup sheltie" gimick. If anyone says _____ sheltie, don't fall for it. There's only one, the sheltie.

[wolfsoul]

Teacup is just a term to describe a small version of a breed; it is not a standardized term, however. You'll often hear of teacup poodles, or teacup yorkies etc. Just like they have names for large versions of breeds. A large sheltie, for instance, would be called a "throwback" sheltie.

I have to disagree with their not being teacup shelties -- maybe the word "teacup" isn't necessarily the word to call them, but there are small or undersized shelties regardless.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Teacup is just a term to describe a small version of a breed; it is not a standardized term, however. You'll often hear of teacup poodles, or teacup yorkies etc. Just like they have names for large versions of breeds. A large sheltie, for instance, would be called a "throwback" sheltie.

I have to disagree with their not being teacup shelties -- maybe the word "teacup" isn't necessarily the word to call them, but there are small or undersized shelties regardless.

And that term is wrong. There are no such things as teacup toy poodles, there are toy poodles. There are no such thing as tea cup chihuahuas. There are just chihuahuas.

I explained above that there is no such thing as a teacup sheltie, but that it is common for shelties to be over or under the breed standard. For them to be oversized does not make them throwbacks as you stated (not sure what you meant by that term) nor does it make them rare "king" shelties.
For a sheltie to be undersized does not make them "tea cup" shelties. It just makes them pet quality shelties.

[wolfsoul]

Just because the term isn't "standardized" doesn't make it wrong to state...Would it be wrong if I had a small sheltie, and I called it a "small" sheltie? It's a term isn't it? I'd just be stating that it's small. That's all that teacup is doing. No, it doesn't mean it's a seperate breed, no it's doesn't mean it's in the standard, it's just that -- a small sheltie. And you can't say that there is no such thing as a small sheltie, can you? You just said that it makes them a "pet quality" sheltie. That's a term. So wouldn't people be angry if I stated that I have a "pet quality" sheltie? That's not "standardized" either, and yet also is referring to a small sheltie.

A "throwback" sheltie is a term that has been used way back when shelties were first being made, and is still used today. It is used to describe a sheltie that is large, and still shows some of that collie heritage. Way back they weren't considered appropriate and they were usually culled.

[Shelteez2]

The point I am trying to make (and not clearly sorry it's late) is that the term tea cup was coined by byb's trying to make a buck off the unknowing public. So called "tea cup" varieties of breeds are just poorly bred and riddled with health problems. No responsible breeder would try to breed for something so far outside the standard, and I personally think that we as responsible dog owners should stop using such terms as tea cup.

[Twisterdog]

I despise the term "teacup." I own a grooming shop, and I have hundreds of customers who are soooo sure they own "teacup" poodles, chihuahuas, yorkies, shih tzus, shelties ... you name it.

Just because the term isn't "standardized" doesn't make it wrong to state...Would it be wrong if I had a small sheltie, and I called it a "small" sheltie? It's a term isn't it? I'd just be stating that it's small. That's all that teacup is doing.

Yes, it does make it wrong to state. It makes it irresponsible to state. "Teacup" is a marketing ploy first used by backyard breeders and puppy mills, just trying to find a way to sell the runts of the litter, the undersized puppies. No responsible breeder ever uses the term "teacup", just like no responsible breeder ever claims to breed "purebred cockapoos" or "miniature dalmatians." Using the term "teacup" is validating the mess that BYB's and puppymills are making of the dog fancy, and making their corruption of real breeds a little more mainstream and credible. Please don't help them by using their marketing slang as if it were a legitimate term.

A "throwback" sheltie is a term that has been used way back when shelties were first being made, and is still used today. It is used to describe a sheltie that is large, and still shows some of that collie heritage. Way back they weren't considered appropriate and they were usually culled.

Culling generally refers to newborn puppies. Puppies are generally culled if they show obvious birth defects or health issues, albeit some breeders do cull for deafness or mismarks. It would therefore not be possible the "cull" a sheltie pup for being too large, as the breeder wouldn't really know the dog's full size until it is over six months old.


ALL breeds have some puppies that end up too small, too big, the wrong color, the wrong coat, etc. Nature is not perfect, in any species or breed. The difference between a responsible breeder and a BYB/puppy mill is how they treat those puppies that are too small/too big/wrong color, etc. A responsible breeder calls them "pet quality" and sells them on a spay/neuter contract, and then does genetic research to determine if there is something in his breeding lines that might have caused the out-of-standard puppy, so it isn't as likely to occur again. A backyard breeder or puppymill intentionally breeds FOR too small puppies, calls them "teacup" and sells them intact at a premium to unsuspecting and ignorant customers, who more than likely breed more "teacups" with their friend's BYB "teacup" dog. And the cycle of poor breeding practices, health issues and misinformation continues and grows.

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Twisterdog

Culling generally refers to newborn puppies. Puppies are generally culled if they show obvious birth defects or health issues, albeit some breeders do cull for deafness or mismarks. It would therefore not be possible the "cull" a sheltie pup for being too large, as the breeder wouldn't really know the dog's full size until it is over six months old.

Yeah, generally is the term. But that wasn't always the case. As I said, it wasn't considered appropriate to have a large sheltie, and an embarrassed owner might cull one, adult or not. In the case of dogs that need to work for their food, if an adult dog shows poor working ability, then they would cull it. Technically culling doesn't always mean killing, so I'll state the technical, however obvious; they would take it out back and shoot or drown it. Luckily it is no longer considered appropriate in our society.

[Shelteez2]

[wolfsoul]

Pfft lmao Rolling of the eyes...coulda figured.

[Shelteez2]

Originally posted by wolfsoul
Pfft lmao Rolling of the eyes...coulda figured.

That was for the fact that you didn't respond to any of the comments made on the original issue, the usage of the term tea cup. *S*

I see what you are saying about the culling. That happened in every breed once upon a time. It still does actually only now they are culled by spaying and neutering. I don't see how it is relevant to the discussion at hand.
And I think to clarify, the term throwback would not only be a big sheltie that looked very collie like, but could also be a small sheltie that looked very pomeranian like.

But it's getting late, and much as I'd like to debate this all night I need to get up early tomorrow to get to work and groom my two throwback shelties. Then I can take them out back and shoot them. Or maybe I can drown them in the tub, then I can get like 4 tea cup ones.

Catch ya later.

[Twisterdog]

Luckily it is no longer considered appropriate in our society

Oh, but sadly, it is considered very appropriate. In many, many segments of our sociey, dogs are still routinely taken out back and shot, or put in a bag and drowned. Stray dogs can be legally and routinely shot if found wandering in rural areas. Dogs are regularly killed for not being a good enough working dog, or for going after livestock, poultry, or other dogs. Many, many breeders still cull out-of-standards pups, and many dog circles see nothing wrong with this. Call it "culling" or simply "killing", but it happens all over, every day.

And, foremost, tens of thousands of dogs are "culled" at shelters and humane socities and animal controls each and every day, all over the world. We as a society see nothing wrong with killing the extras, the leftovers, the homeless every day ... out of sight, out of mind. And a major contributor to pet overpopulation is BYB's and puppymills ... which brings me around again to my original comments concerning BYB's, puppymills, and "teacups" ....

[wolfsoul]

Originally posted by Shelteez2
That was for the fact that you didn't respond to any of the comments made on the original issue, the usage of the term tea cup. *S*

Yes I did. Infact you reacted to my posts and quoted them.

Twisterdog, I know that culling is still done in many places by many people, but it is frowned upon, that is what I meant. A responsible breeder would never cull. Neither, like it has been stated, would they use terms like "teacup," and even though both culling and "teacup" frowned upon, it's still there, and it still exists.