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Thread: Vaccines "One" Vets opinion'

  1. #1
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    Vaccines "One" Vets opinion'

    This was posted last year on an Akita list I am on.
    Might give you something to think about to question
    your own vet.
    (She does believe in vaccines even though
    on her Akita she does a yearly titer test, but on her Lab I believe she gives vaccines.)
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:23:28 -0500
    From: "Rachel P., DVM" Subject: Re: Vaccine damage


    Just like anything we do, the pros need to outweigh the cons. Since we have
    had a lot of new persons join the list lately I posted below my thoughts on
    the vaccination debate which I have shared at various times on the list.
    For those for whom this is a repeat delete now to escape boredom!

    Rachel

    - - - - -

    Vaccines are artificial means of inducing immunity to a disease without
    actually having the disease. The immune system is marvelously adaptable and
    when
    it is exposed to a "new" invader is remembers that invader so that the next
    time it encounters it the immune system will be ready to swiftly respond.
    The first time the immune system encounters an invader it takes some time
    for the immune system to get its defenses in order. Once the "battle" is
    over
    and the immune system has won (ie the animal is still alive), defenses are
    left in place. These defenses are in the form of antibodies and memory
    cells
    (immune cells that are ready to crank out more antibodies the next time
    around). Antibodies are the proteins that bind to a foreign invader to tell
    the
    immune system HEY this is something you need to destroy. Without antibodies
    the immune system does not know that the invader is an invader and, thus,
    will leave it alone. Thus, antibodies are considered a direct measure of
    immunity to a given disease. The higher the antibody level the more invader
    can be detected and destroyed. A certain minimum level is needed to
    adequately protect the body against a given disease under routine exposure
    (ie
    exposure in the "real" world as opposed to exposure in an experimental
    setting in which the invader is in much higher concentrations). Vaccines
    work
    because they induce antibody formation WITHOUT the animal having to
    experience the disease. How? By either killing the pathogen (virus or
    bacteria), by
    modifying the pathogen so that it is still alive but unable to cause
    disease, OR by only injecting part of the pathogen (a surface protein or
    other
    structure). The latter being the "latest" in vaccines called recombinant
    technology or a recombinant vaccine. Killed pathogens require lots of
    adjuvant
    or irritating substances to get the immune system all fired up to respond to
    this pathogen since the pathogen itself is dead and thus not creating much
    fuss. These are the vaccine MOST LIKELY to cause a vaccine reaction --
    short or long term. Modified live pathogen vaccines require less adjuvant
    since
    the pathogen will cause some trouble as it replicates and gets the immune
    systems attention.

    As to how often one needs to vaccinate: as with any drug or treatment one
    must ask themselves what are you trying to accomplish with this. In the
    case
    of vaccines one is trying to create immunity aka antibodies of sufficient
    amount to confer protection from a given disease on an animal. With
    puppies,
    one is fighting maternal antibodies (ie the antibodies mom gives them in the
    milk and across the placenta) -- too high and these antibodies prohibit the
    puppy's immune system from responding (if mom's antibodies will do the work
    why should the puppy waste energy on responding?), too low and the puppy
    gets
    disease. When does the antibodies fall below the too high level to allow
    the puppy to make its own antibodies yet not be low enough to allow disease?
    Ahhh . . that is the 1,000,000 question and one that unfortunately has a
    different answer for each puppy. Each puppy (in a litter) receives a
    slightly different amount of antibodies from mom and in different litters
    vastly different amounts depending on mom and her immune status. So each
    puppy
    starts off with a different amount and then each puppy loses these
    antibodies at a different rate (thru metabolizing them and thru their
    fighting off
    infection). Thus, the reason that we vaccinate puppies multiple times at
    regular intervals -- to catch all puppies when they can use the vaccine but
    before they get sick. Puppies must receive vaccinations or they are not
    protected from disease. Let me repeat that in a different way -- in order
    for a
    puppy to make antibodies to protect itself from a given disease it must (a)
    have the disease and live through it or (b) be vaccinated for it. As
    infectious disease are still out there, the risk of disease is there. So,
    if you want your puppy protected you must either let it have the disease
    (and
    very potentially die) or have it vaccinated. The choice is yours.

    After puppy vaccinations then what? Well, again what are you trying to
    accomplish with vaccinations? Immunity. Which is what? A certain level of
    antibodies. So in the ideal world one would check those antibody levels
    and only vaccinate when needed. And in fact this is the approach I take
    with
    my dogs. Guess what? Zen was vaccinated as a pup and has not been
    vaccinated since then (excepting Rabies which is a legal requirement to (a)
    give and
    (b) what intervals to give at) and his antibody levels are still protective.
    In fact his distemper antibody levels went from 1:120 to 1:1048 this past
    year (antibody levels are given as a maximum dilution amount that still
    neutralizes the pathogen so the higher the number to the right the more
    antibodies one has) meaning he got exposed somewhere and made more
    antibodies. Now I will grant you that my dogs are probably exposed to more
    than most
    especially Zen who goes to work with me quite often. BUT the point is
    ideally one would check antibody levels and only vaccinate when needed. Now
    as
    this requires that people bring the dog in and then possibly bring it back
    not to mention the extra cost of the vaccine many just opt to go ahead
    and vaccinate anyway. Which is fine IMO for the most part. BUT in certain
    breeds (like the Akita) and in certain individuals vaccinations carry higher
    levels of risk and, thus, IMO vaccination without need is not appropriate.
    Akitas with their limited immune genetic variability are very, very, very
    prone to auto-immune diseases of most any sort. Getting the immune system
    "all riled up" when it does not need to be is NOT a good idea. Yes, if the
    antibodies need to be raised vaccinate. Otherwise, don't. Here again risk
    vs benefit and which maximizes benefits while minimizing risk.

    I do think there is sufficient evidence that many vaccines confer antibodies
    that last 2 or more years. Thus, I do not object at all to the every 2 year
    routine. I still prefer to check titers annually but here again it is the
    owner's decision ultimately.

    Hope this helps muddy the waters a little :-)! Holler back with specific
    questions.


    Rachel
    Last edited by KYS; 07-06-2003 at 08:50 AM.


    ----<---<--<{(@

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Geneva, IL
    Posts
    4,120
    When we went in for our regular yearly vaccinations, our vet suggested that we not revaccinate for distemper. He said that there is the opinion that the protection from last year's shot is sufficient to last 2 and maybe 3 years, although the company that manufactures the vaccine does not stipulate that.

    We went along with this theory and did not revaccinate for distemper.
    *Until one has loved an animal, a part of ones soul remains unawakened.* Anatole France

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