Do we dare discuss the Supreme Court decision re: Healthcare

[RICHARD]

So, Riddle me this?

Basically, if a family of four that takes in, let's say 20K a year (THIS IS THEORETICAL) cannot afford MI, because they have to....

Pay rent,
Eat,
Cloth themselves
Pay for transportation and whatever basic living expenses they incur, MUST FACE A PENALTY LEVIED BY THE IRS and probably will have their tax returns docked or be subject to whatever kind of collection method the gov't. may choose to enforce?

Nice.

The people that Obama puts to work processing and going about setting up the system to catch the scofflaws who either won't or cannot afford MI will lower the unemployment rate and create a whole new office/system to complicate an already over-porked federal system.

-----------------------

By putting people into a hole - penalizing them for not being able to afford insurance -will make them less likely to be able to afford insurance in the future.

How the eff does that make sense?

Oh, wait.

If the prez says so, it must be good for everybody.

[sasvermont]

It's my undersranding that if your income is low, you will get a subsidy (much like I do right now in VT) from either your state of Federal government so that you can have insurance at a low, low cost. Does that make sense Richard. Low income = low payment.

I think a lot is going to be what your state decides to do and how much the Federal government will fund each state. Very confusing.

[smokey the elder]

*tiptoes in* I read an opinion piece that the "penalty" is truly a tax, and listed as such in the actual Act. The opponents of "Obamacare" used the Commerce Clause. The Justices actually read the Act and recognized that the "penalty" was in fact a tax. Apparently (this is all according to the opinion piece), a number of attorneys filed an "amicus" (friend of the court) brief that suggested that since it was a tax, it was a straightforward case. However. Mr. President sort of shot himself in the foot by insisting that it was not a tax.

There's a lot to like about the ACA. But it has to be paid for somehow.

Full text of the opinion piece is here. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c2

[RICHARD]

I understand that there is a clause for low income purchases of coverage.

But, when you don't have the money to purchase that coverage?

I have had WONDERFUL HCC and I have been in a situation where I did not (I owe my life to the FINE doctors at the University of Louisville - I don't advocate almost dying to get good treatment.)

------------

I don't mean to make this sound dramatic.....

Most of us have never had to worry about pinching pennies to afford (Fill in the blank).

There is a car commercial where the spokesperson shows a gal who bought a new car and her insurance is affordable, so she doesn't have to eat "ramen noodles" every day.

There have been a few times where I had to make do with a few days of eating rice - not fun but it makes you really appreciate what you do and do not have.

--------------

When you have a light bill, gas, water, car insurance, mortgage, HOA fees and what else - where, if you do not have a job with bennies, are you going to cut to be able to afford coverage?

--------------

I am not often "gobsmacked" or at a loss for words, but when I am, it's because of some thing I see in nature, in the sky or some other silly thing or event.

I drove thru Springfield MO and got lost trying to find my room for that night.

One of the reasons?

I turned onto a street and thought I was next to an airport - there were so many parking structures and signs I literally drove back and forth for about 40 minutes - why?

There wasn't an airplane in sight, but the street was literally filthy with hospitals and clinics.

I am used to seeing huge medical campuses, but this was like freaking Disneyland.

--------------

That got me to wonder where the money came from to build all these 'facilities'.....I think I figured it out.

The news/BS programs will set the tone for the election in November.

They have me scared.

I try to think about what will happen, with either candidate in office and I don't like it.

The biggest problem - and I'll scream it from the rooftops every chance I get - is there needs to be, not a health insurance overhaul, but an overhaul in the way treatment is developed, given and the ramifications of treatment that goes badly.

---------------

The last thing that limits the effectiveness of ANY TREATMENTS is the mindset of all the people who watch HOUSE or any other show about medicine.

We are a mindless group of people that think George Clooney will come and take our temperature, look in our eye or check our prostate.

He'll wink, write out a prescription and after the next commercial we'll be back in the office thanking him because he cured us.

Our mindset is that we don't need to do the preventive crap.

One hour, with commercial breaks, will get us back on track.

-----------

Hey, do me a favor, watch TV for one night and count all the commericals from lawyers who are looking for people
to joint a class action suit.

My favorite is the firm with the phone number that spells out "B-A-D-D-R-U-G"

Nice.

[Randi]

I don't know a whole lot about US healthcare, but what SAS and ES say, I agree with. In Denmark, healthcare is payed for over the tax, except going to the dentist. Just like anyone can use the road for free, or the library, anyone can get sick and in need of treatment at a hospital and that should be free - not just for rich people!

[momcat]

I was 19 when my grandmother took me with her to Scotland, she was born there and went back to visit. While we were in Dundee, Grandma got sick. With my family half a world away I was scared out of my mind. The owner of the hotel we stayed in told me not to worry, he would get help. About an hour later there was a knock at our door, it was the doctor. She gave my grandmother a complete examination, determined the problem, and gave her medication. The doctor came every day to do another examination, give medication, and would sit with us for a while. On her day off, the doctor took me sight-seeing around the city. When Grandma was medically cleared to continue our trip, she asked the doctor about her fee; doctor said there is no fee; Grandma said "But I'm not a British subject"; the doctor said "It doesn't matter, that's how it is here."

All through the debates about "Obamacare" I couldn't help but think about our experience in Dundee. As for the ACA, I don't know how I feel about it. Required coverage for pre-existing conditions is a huge plus and it's something I'll be dealing with soon. Another positive is that kids are covered even with pre-existing conditions. Anything that helps seniors get to their doctors and stay on their prescriptions can only be a good thing. There are some very good provisions but one has got to be changed, this electronic medical records nonsense. This is priveledged information and emr is a direct and blatant violation of the Privacy Act and HIPPA. Let us decide if we want our records mistreated like this, DON"T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS!

I was surprised at the Supreme Court's decision on the ACA. Maybe now those in charge will start working out the bugs and refine all of the provisions so it will work effectively for everyone.

[RICHARD]

I was 19 when my grandmother took me with her to Scotland, she was born there and went back to visit. While we were in Dundee, Grandma got sick. With my family half a world away I was scared out of my mind. The owner of the hotel we stayed in told me not to worry, he would get help. About an hour later there was a knock at our door, it was the doctor. She gave my grandmother a complete examination, determined the problem, and gave her medication. The doctor came every day to do another examination, give medication, and would sit with us for a while. On her day off, the doctor took me sight-seeing around the city. When Grandma was medically cleared to continue our trip, she asked the doctor about her fee; doctor said there is no fee; Grandma said "But I'm not a British subject"; the doctor said "It doesn't matter, that's how it is here."

All through the debates about "Obamacare" I couldn't help but think about our experience in Dundee. As for the ACA, I don't know how I feel about it. Required coverage for pre-existing conditions is a huge plus and it's something I'll be dealing with soon. Another positive is that kids are covered even with pre-existing conditions. Anything that helps seniors get to their doctors and stay on their prescriptions can only be a good thing. There are some very good provisions but one has got to be changed, this electronic medical records nonsense. This is priveledged information and emr is a direct and blatant violation of the Privacy Act and HIPPA. Let us decide if we want our records mistreated like this, DON"T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS!

I was surprised at the Supreme Court's decision on the ACA. Maybe now those in charge will start working out the bugs and refine all of the provisions so it will work effectively for everyone.

I worked in a records dept for 13 years and while EMRs to have an up side?

The one that makes me laugh are the 'electric signature' options.

When a doc gets lazy and gives his nurse his password to help him get caught up on his paperwork?

What about hackers or when the system gets compromised?

That is another moneymaker for the companies that lobby in D.C.

------------------------------


Pom,

You are absolutely correct.

As long as there are no sweeping changes to the HC system, people are going to get screwed.

[pomtzu]

So Joe Blow, who must now buy a policy because Uncle Sam says so, and he complies just to avoid being taxed -(which I heard is somewhere around $600+ per adult) - buys it even tho he doesn't want to buy it. He buys the cheapest coverage available, which of course probably has big co-pays and deductibles. Is he now going to run to his doctor since he has insurance, rather than use the ER instead? I doubt it - not when he can go to the ER and never have to pay, and the hospital is still stuck for what his paltry insurance doesn't pay. But of course, John Q Public will get stuck with his bill in the end, just as it always has - in the form of higher insurance premiums and medical costs in general. So what has been gained by Obama's plan??? - not much when you consider this scenario, anyway.

Any thoughts??? Maybe I'm just being dense.

I'm so glad I already have insurance!!!!!

[Karen]

So Joe Blow, who must now buy a policy because Uncle Sam says so, and he complies just to avoid being taxed -(which I heard is somewhere around $600+ per adult) - buys it even tho he doesn't want to buy it. He buys the cheapest coverage available, which of course probably has big co-pays and deductibles. Is he now going to run to his doctor since he has insurance, rather than use the ER instead? I doubt it - not when he can go to the ER and never have to pay, and the hospital is still stuck for what his paltry insurance doesn't pay. But of course, John Q Public will get stuck with his bill in the end, just as it always has - in the form of higher insurance premiums and medical costs in general. So what has been gained by Obama's plan??? - not much when you consider this scenario, anyway.

Any thoughts??? Maybe I'm just being dense.

I'm so glad I already have insurance!!!!!

From what I understand - which I emphasize is very little, as I have not read the bill, preventive care is usually covered without a co-pay. So why wouldn't he go to the doctor? The $600 figure, by the way, is not accurate, it's a sliding scale, depending on income up to a certain level.

[pomtzu]

From what I understand - which I emphasize is very little, as I have not read the bill, preventive care is usually covered without a co-pay. So why wouldn't he go to the doctor? The $600 figure, by the way, is not accurate, it's a sliding scale, depending on income up to a certain level.

I'm just saying what I have read/heard so far, and you know what is said about that. Only believe half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear. And there is much more to go to a doctor for, other than preventive medicine. If every doctor visit was preventive, then no one would ever have to pay their doctor anything. And even if there is no co-pay, the deductible will kill you until that's been met.

[Catty1]

In Canada public health is paid for through our taxes. I think there are still one or two provinces that charge an additional health care premium, which people under a certain income don't have to pay.

Just so I understand the new US health care - does that mean one still has to pay for government coverage? When we had premiums in Alberta I think the max for a family was under $200 monthly, but don't quote me on that.

[Jessika]

I was very much opposed to it until I read a break-down of it. There are still a LOT of rumors and myths floating around about what is included in the bill that just aren't true.

I will say, though, that I am still NOT happy about being "penalized" for making a CHOICE to not purchase insurance. They say this is to prevent people from getting coverage on an "as-needed" basis, and hopefully promoting more wellness care so that emergency trips are avoided or lessened. I do understand that, but we live in America, we are the "land of the free", yet we aren't allowed to make a choice to have insurance or not or we get "penalized". Oh, sorry, they call it a "tax" so it's deemed "constitutional".

BUT, I do encourage every one of you to visit this link and read the break-down of points. He even goes through and debunks some myths that are floating around, some of which I've even read in this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm

[Edwina's Secretary]

I was very much opposed to it until I read a break-down of it.
BUT, I do encourage every one of you to visit this link and read the break-down of points. He even goes through and debunks some myths that are floating around, some of which I've even read in this thread.

http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm

Thank you for sharing this link. One thing I find is that most people who object to it have no idea what is REALLY contained in the bill. I hope many others read it.

[Catty1]

I've gone on too little sleep here often in my life and I ain't done time yet!

[FeatheredMonkey]

I can't seem to remember a program that the government has had it's hands in that was efficient, stayed within budget and was not riddled with extreme excesses or just downright fraud. I really don't foresee this program turning out any different.

I agree that there is a segment of our society that needs health care and can not afford it. In Arizona the program is called AHCCCS. Government run and paid for with tax money taken from working people and it is, like most government programs, extremely inefficient but it gives the needy healthcare.

I think this is just another step to make people more dependent on the government. The more dependent a person is on the government, the more control the government has over that person.

The government is currently spending millions advertising food stamps. Get more people on food stamps, they are more dependent on the government.

The list goes on and on.