Non-surgical ACL treatment

[wolf_Q]

The one she used were the joint chewables (I give these to Nebo too) and the longevity powder.

[Taz_Zoee]

The one she used were the joint chewables (I give these to Nebo too) and the longevity powder.

Thank you!

[Kater]

Hi! I don't know the entire history on Zoee's injury, but it sounds suspicious for a partial tear as opposed to complete ligament rupture. Usually complete rupture is pretty evident by manipulation (not in terms of a pain response, but specific abnormal biomechanics of the knee). In contrast, a partial rupture is harder to diagnose, even with x-rays. The x-rays won't show ligaments (soft tissue all looks the same - muscle, ligaments, vessels, etc.), so you are mostly looking for a pattern of swelling/excess fluids in an acute injury, which can be supportive but not really definitive.

Kirk had a partial tear back in 2007. Given his numerous hip surgeries at that point, I decided not to pursue surgery. I did intense hydrotherapy, joint supplementation (oral and injectible) and maintained him at a very lean body weight. After a number of months, he was weight bearing on the leg again and starting to gain back muscle mass!

My non-surgical suggestions for Zoee would be:
-activity restriction (of the off leash/free play type) & anti-inflammatory medications short term (you are currently doing these)
-pursue physical therapy/hydrotherapy if possible, or just find someplace she can regularly swim -- you want her using that leg ASAP (in a controlled fashion) to keep inflammation down, maintain range of motion and muscle mass and also reduce scarring long term
-keep her lean! --as in a THIN layer of fat over her lower ribs. I mean it!
-Dasuquin (my favorite oral joint supplement: glucosamine + chondroitin + an avocado ingredient shown to work synergistically with chondroitin)-- expensive? yes, more than a generic pet or human product, but also has actually undergone research trials and comes from a very reputable company that has something to lose if they get bad press
-Adequan (or generics) --an injectible oral joint support product you can get from the vet
-Omega-3s -- I like Nordic Naturals, you want a high level of EPA and dosing such that EPA+DHA mg dose equals 30-40 mg/kg/day (I can help you figure this out if you want...)

Re: the website you asked about. I'm not a big fan, but to be fair I did not read it all. Once he goes off on veterinary surgeons just pushing surgery for money and claiming that we charge too much, I lose interest. That is not true of any of the veterinary surgeons I have met. They are highly trained personnel that deserve to be paid fairly. I recognize my bias as a soon-to-be-new veterinary school grad with a mound of debt, but it just makes me wonder about his intentions...seems a little more conspiracy and a little less holistic 'do no harm' approach.

I would recommend the following website to learn more about CCL rupture: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...S=0&C=0&A=1975 .

Let me know if I can help further in any way. Best of luck to you and Zoee! I remember meeting that pretty girl of yours.

[IRescue452]

As a person with a severed ligament that will never heal I think supplements are a bunch of bs. Whether or not its going to heal well depends on how much is still close enough together to stitch itself back up. Its not the supplements helping these dogs, its the time and rest. My ankle ligament was completely severed from a fall 6 years ago and its still painful and I couldn't have surgery because I do not have health insurance. I do not think I would wait for supplements to work if there was a bad tear. The truth about supplements is, if the injury is already there, its too late. Supplements take time to build up. Same with glucosamine for old dogs, too late to start after arthritis. I'm not saying small tears need surgury, but large ones should probably get it. Ligaments very quickly lose elasticity when in the same place too long. As far as older dogs go though, I would not put either of my old dogs through another surgery at this point. They would get pain meds and rest. Surgery is hard on an old dog.

[Kater]

As a person with a severed ligament that will never heal I think supplements are a bunch of bs. Whether or not its going to heal well depends on how much is still close enough together to stitch itself back up. Its not the supplements helping these dogs, its the time and rest. My ankle ligament was completely severed from a fall 6 years ago and its still painful and I couldn't have surgery because I do not have health insurance. I do not think I would wait for supplements to work if there was a bad tear. The truth about supplements is, if the injury is already there, its too late. Supplements take time to build up. Same with glucosamine for old dogs, too late to start after arthritis. I'm not saying small tears need surgury, but large ones should probably get it. Ligaments very quickly lose elasticity when in the same place too long. As far as older dogs go though, I would not put either of my old dogs through another surgery at this point. They would get pain meds and rest. Surgery is hard on an old dog.

I am somewhat in agreement - these supplements are not going to heal whatever injury is there. However, I disagree that they are useless. The purposes of these products are to reduce inflammation, reduce long-term changes (arthritis basically) and keep the animal comfortable (works better in some animals than others). The ligament tear is not really what hurts. What hurts is the secondary changes from our body's inflammation and the dynamic process known as arthritis.

I have seen my dog on an acupuncture-only regime compared to now where he's on four medications (2 drugs & 2 supplements) and I would never go back. He does amazingly well on this particular combination of medications! That doesn't mean results are the same for every dog or person, but I feel these things are worth trying if surgery is not an option. Just my opinion.

[Seravieve]

I know Im not around much but here's my two cents!

Eli had a torn ACL two years ago, had TPLO surgery. We did try to not have surgery for about a month prior. It was a partial tear, so he would use it and then not, back and forth. Ultimately, with the risks of arthritis and having it completely tear down the road, and considering he was 4 at the time, and not to mention hes a good 70 pounds, we went with the surgery. I have heard of smaller dogs not having the surgery, because with their weight it usually will heal enough.

If nothing else, I wanted to reply to the previous posts about Dasuquin. LOVE LOVE LOVE it for Eli.
He has some issues w/ arthritic degeneration in his spine (abuse from previous owners) which limited his range of motion and lead to severe muscle spasms.
We had him on Deramaxx for several years because of this, having his liver levels tested routinely (steroids).
When we had the TPLO surgery done, the vet (diff from our usual vet) recommended we use it, and that it would help w/ the ACL problem.
He's been taking it ever since, and was taken off of Deramaxx and hasnt had any muscle spasms since.
We buy it on Amazon, cheapest I've found it. (Dasuquin w MSM is what we use)

Good luck!