OK, what was that all about?

[aTailOf2Kitties]

I was watching TV earlier and Havoc was in my lap. Toby had been up there earlier but had gotten bored or whatever and moved on. Toby was just walking around on the floor when Havoc suddenly screamed and lunged at him. At that point it was ON with both cats screaming, hissing and swatting at each other. Toby doesn't usually take any crap off of anybody let alone Havoc so my boyfriend scooped him up before they really went at it. Havoc had run into another room and when I went to retrieve him he was screaming and hissing at me. I grabbed him up to put him in the cage to calm down and he was going ape-poop... (and pooping) before I finally got hold of him. He was making such a ruckus that my boyfriend came down the hallway with Toby....BIG mistake. Toby bit him on the hand, jumped to the floor and was running towards me and Havoc. I turned around to deflect him and he bit me hard on the back of my leg. I flung him off behind me, at which point I turned around to see if he was still there or had run off and he lunged at me and Havoc.... I mean actually took a flying leap from the floor towards my arms. I turned around to keep him at bay at which time my boyfriend grabbed him again and closed him up in the bathroom. Havoc was still growly and hissy so I finally got him in the cage. Toby was body slamming the door just wanting out of the bathroom, so we let him out. He was totally calm but Havoc kept glaring and hissing at him from inside the cage. I realized that Havoc was the one with "issues" so I ended up putting Toby in the cage so Havoc could re-approach him at his own pace. Toby is totally OK with being in the cage so I can leave him in there overnight (it's a BIG cage). Havoc finally made his peace with Toby after about an hour and they're playfully pawing at each other through the bars, but he's still a little nervous around me for some reason.

Anyone know why Havoc would Have a seemingly spontaneous meltdown? I was visiting a friend earlier in the day and her cat had sat in my lap, but both of my cats had been all over me after that and didn't seem to care. Maybe Havoc smelled the other cat while looking at Toby and thought it was another cat? He went nuts just like that last time I gave Toby a bath.

They seem to have made their peace, so should I let Toby back out? I've already got a couple of nasty tooth-scratches on my leg and a bite wound on my thumb and I really don't want to go through this again tonight.

Sorry for the novel, but the whole thing got out of hand quick and it was really really strange. Wondering if anyone had any insight?

[aTailOf2Kitties]

update: left Toby in the cage last night and let him out this morning and fed them both. Havoc is still acting a bit nervous in general but they touched noses and this morning and still were cordial. I went back to bed after I fed them. Havoc growled at Toby once or twice so Toby went back in the cage until a few minutes ago. My boyfriend let him out just now and Havoc started screaming at him again so HE went in the cage and is now in time-out in another room.

I don't know what has gotten into Havoc. He's usually a totally easygoing pansy. The 2 cats have never been best buds or anything but they got along. They play-wrestle a few times a day but there is never hissing or screeching before, during, or afterward.

I'm guessing Havoc's not feeling well or something, so I'll take him to the vet on Monday. Nobody sells Feliway around here except the big chain stores in Memphis itself, and of course today is a holiday so that's a no-go.

Hopefully he's just got a stomach ache or something and he'll get over it. If he's gonna keep doin' this I don't know what I'm gonna do. I can't have 2 cats that don't get along but I sure don't want to get rid of one of them.

[Vermontcat]

I'm sorry to hear that Toby and Havoc have been fighting.
Maybe it was because of the smell of the other cat on you.
Milly hates our neighbor's black cat that shows up in our yard sometimes and will growl and hiss at it from the window and sometimes lash out at Izzy if she is close by.
Milly & Izzy also play fight while I'm getting their food ready but not to the point of hurting each other.
When Milly does get moody like that, I like to get out a fun toy like Da Bird and let them burn off their aggression on the toy instead of on each other.
Also taking them outside on a leash and harness sometimes helps them burn off some energy so they don't fight with each other.
I hope that Havoc is feeling ok and that he and Toby are getting along ok now.
Maybe Havoc is just living up to his name.

[krazyaboutkatz]

First of all, since you were bitten on your leg on your boyfriend was bitten on his hand you may need to see a doctor if Havoc bit through your skin. Cats mouths contain a lot of bacteria which can give you an infection and you may need to be put on antibiotics for this. When my RB Starr bit me on the hand very hard I had to do this just to be on the safe side.

I agree that Havoc probably smelled the other cats scent and then he decided to lash out at Toby. Cats noses are very sensitive. I don't know why he wasn't bothered by it until later though. My cats in general will all get along but they also have their squabbles too from time to time. It's usually nothing major but I do have to break up some fights sometimes and I'll put Storm,who is the alpha male, in my bedroom for a while for a time out. I hope that your boys will be able to at least tolerate each other from now on. Good luck.

[aTailOf2Kitties]

It's almost like he's bipolar or something. Toby will walk in and lay down in front of the cage without incident and they'll just look at each other. Then, a minute later Havoc decides he doesn't like Toby any more. Toby is being a very good boy about all of this. He just walks away when he gets hissed at but when Havoc starts with the angry kitty-words Toby starts arguing back. I let them out for evening feeding and they were perfectly fine for dinner. Then Toby walked by one time too many I guess and Havoc got all growly again. I grabbed Toby and put him in another room and Havoc was getting all screechy with my boyfriend when he tried to put him back in the cage.

He's going to the vet tomorrow if they're open. Maybe he's just sick and defensive or something. He'll be all whiny and begging for me to let him out but when I open the door he gets all hissy again.

Toby is the alpha male so it's really weird that Havoc is starting stuff on his own.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Another thing you might want to consider is that maybe Toby is ill. Sometimes cats will lash out at the weaker ones or sense that something is wrong with them. Hopefully this isn't the case. Good luck at the vets tomorrow or whenever he's able to be seen.

[moosmom]

Get a spray can of Feliway and isolate him in the smallest room in the house, usually a half bathroom. Spray the crap in the air of the bathroon and close the door. Put Havoc in the room. It'll calm his ass down quickly. It contains an enzyme that only cats can smell, that calms them down. I've used it over and over again. Swear by it.

Have either of them come back from the vet? Alot of times, the "medicinal" smell is on the cat and the other cat will pick it up and go nuts. I usually wipe the cat down with a Downy dryer sheet.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Cats do go by smell much more than site.

I wouldn't rule out a vet visit for them both, though, to make sure one isn't smelling odd because of an illness that isn't evident.

I would also second the Feliway. However, I would try the plug-in diffusers so that you have a consistent and constant release of the pheremone going at all times.

Feliway is not an instant fix and you have to use more than one 30-day diffuser to decide if it works or not. I'd suggest researching it, using it properly and using it for at least 60 days. It isn't cheap. Best price is usually through Entirely Pets (on-line)...I had a 3 pack of the refills delivered to my door for $37.99 TOTAL. To buy ONE in a store is $19.99 minimum, more at some places, not counting tax, gas to get there and my time.

Feliway is a synthetic replica of the "happy" pheremone cats carry naturally on their chin/cheek/facial areas.

In addition to vet check and using Feliway, you might want to separate them and do a re-introduction of them. Do scent exchange as well--rub each cat with a separate towel, then rub the towel from Toby onto Havoc and the towel from Havoc onto Toby.

Definitely keep a close eye on your bites. Almost a year ago my husband got bit by one of our cats...it was a total accident and my husband didn't think much of it because it bled well. However, a few days later he showed it to me and I had to argue him into going to the doctors. He had to take some powerful antibiotics that messed with his digestive system a little, but they worked. He actually ran a fever and felt sick for a short period of time with the infection. He had instructions to go to the ER if it didn't start improving within 24 hours of seeing the doctor and starting the antibiotics and he had to go back for a re-check. Thankfully it healed without incident but he'd have been in big trouble if he hadn't gone to the doctors when he did.

[aTailOf2Kitties]

I couldn't get him to the vet yesterday but i was in town and bought some Feliway type stuff at Petsmart. A spray and some type of paste. As of last night he was still being a little moody so he started the night in the cage. Toby drives me nuts in the middle of the night until I feed him so last night I gave them both a snack and put Toby in the cage afterward so Havoc could run around until morning. Let Toby out at breakfast so both cats were running loose without incident until right before I left for work. I wasn't going to leave them both out while I was gone 'cuz I don't fully trust Havoc yet and if there was an incident it would most assuredly escalate to a full-on fight. Toby ignores Havoc's hissing and just walks away but as soon as Havoc starts vocalizing Toby gets riled up too and he's not one to back down. My boyfriend got home before I did and let Havoc out around 4:00. I got home a few hours later (6:30-ish)and he said both cats were doing fine the whole time. Havoc would occasionally give Toby the "stink-eye" but my boyfriend would distract him momentarily and all would be good again. They both stayed out and were playing for quite some time. A few hours ago Toby was having his nightly "spaztic kitty time" and Havoc just watched him, no hissing, even as Toby whizzed past or over him. Only once has havoc had a hissy fit since then and he got sent to the cage for about a half hour. Toby sat right in front of it and they were playing footsie through the bars within a few minutes of Havoc's "time out". I let him back out and he busied himself with a plastic cable tie on the floor for quite some time.

Sooooo.....bottom line he's a lot better today, with only one incident since I've been home. He'll go to bed in the cage tonight and be let out in a few hours when they get their midnight (or 2-3 am) snack. Not gonna leave them both loose overnight until they go a whole day without Havoc freaking out. I don't want to be awakened in the night by angry cat-words and then have to try to find and separate them before blood gets shed.

we'll see what tomorrow brings....