Should Teachers Pay Be Linked To Student Grades

[moosmom]

Absolutely not. The students my best friend teaches would earn her no pay because they don't do their work, their parents could givbe a rat's patoot, so why should the teachers pay be linked to student grade.

If the kids can't make on their own brainpower, then they just don't get promoted to the next grade. That's like trying to bribe a teacher to do their already tedious, over worked job. How about Superintendent's or Principal's pay linked to the kids' grades???

[Puckstop31]

All I can say is.... The more I read and learn about today's public 'education' systems, the more I praise God for allowing us to be in the situation where we can home school Hannah.

Tanya and I look forward to teaching Hannah in a way that best suits her and not to some silly standard.

[Grace]

My youngest grandson is about to graduate from a public, magnet high school in Richmond, Virginia. I was sad when they moved there from Michigan, but now I'm delighted - for Evan's sake.

He has been in this school for 3 years. Every one of his senior classes is Advanced Placement - Latin, Calculus, Trig, even English. He's been accepted at the university of his choice, with a full tuition scholarship. He will start with junior year math classes - not freshmen.



I totally agree with blue -

IF a kid has an aptitude for working with his hands it should be nurtured with programs and not stifled with courses geared to get them into a school they have no interest in attending.

Back in the Dark Ages, when I was in high school, not everyone was expected to attend college. There were classes with focus on Industrial Arts and the like.

I have no answers for the problems in some public school systems. I think there is blame to be spread all around. Teachers, parents, you name it.

[cassiesmom]

I think it is wrong to punish a person that gets stuck with kids that can not learn or don't want to learn.
It's also a problem in schools with students that don't speak English.

My sister-in-law teaches middle school in a district where there are white, African American, Spanish-speaking and a growing population of immigrant Eastern European families. Some kids don't have a working grasp of English, but in middle school they don't receive transitional teaching in their primary language. Some kids have troubled home situations. Some kids haven't eaten anything before school; lunch will be their first meal of the day. There are a good number of kids who come to school not ready to work, for any number of reasons. I don't think the teacher should be penalized, but it's worth a look at what keeps kids from doing well and get them into breakfast programs, family counseling, language support or other areas they need so they can do well in school.

[Daisy and Delilah]

My sister is seriously opposed to this but she believes there are some instances where certain conditions are needed to excel in getting quality education for our children.

She said the comparisons are being made to workers in other fields. i.e. Police--should the policeman that doesn't stop a crime from being committed be given less pay?
Firemen--Should the fireman's pay be cut if there are fires they couldn't control?
Doctors--Should the doctor's be penalized if people are still sick under thier care?

It seems fair to me that other workers should be penalized if they aren't able to get the expected end results. If the teachers are solely responsible, according to some people, why not the other workers?

This responsibility should never be placed upon the teachers only. There are many more people that should be held accountable.

[Lady's Human]

Police don't prevent crime, they're the cleanup crew.

Same with firemen. Frequently their job is to mainly prevent the fire from spreading to other buildings, not to save the involved structure.


Electronic techs: I can't fix a machine, I could be removed/retrained

Drill Sergeants: Their Privates don't make the grade, they can be returned to their original units with their careers ended.

Instructors (In most of industry outside of a school system): The students don't learn the subject matter, they lose their job.

Managers: The function they are responsible for doesn't perform, they're on the street.

[Lady's Human]

I'm not saying that teachers should be strictly graded based on their students' performance, other things should be taken into account as well. However, they should not be immune to penalties, as they are in NYC's "rubber rooms".

[RICHARD]

I have seen kids that complain about parents not giving them 'limits' as far as rules, behavior and attitude go.

The kids want structure and the parents are too busy to give it.

So, that leaves teachers to work in the grey area that makes up in real life and education.

The parents complain about taxes-which pay for the schools.

They do not/refuse to teach their kids the basic rules of etiquette, respect and honor.

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How's about a program that lowers the taxes for people who get their kids to graduate?

And the program for people who do not have kids?

Either donate time or money to the local school system?

Part of the problem with the student/teacher/parent triad is there is not enough pressure put on any group to make it work.

the answers are there-we just have to make people accountable for THEIR part of the problem.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

And the program for people who do not have kids?

Hey, I vote for that one!!!

[Miss Z]

Its most likely the parents faults. If your not going to help your kid with school or force them, then it YOUR OWN fault your kid is failing.

That could well be true, however I think a lot of it also depends on the classroom atmosphere. It's pretty hard for one student actually wanting to get on with work whilst everyone else is trying to make the teacher's life as difficult as possible. It's certainly true of the state system here that the bright kids get lost amongst the crowd.

Maybe we should steer our education system away from getting every kid into college. Not every student is going to go to higher education so why waste money trying to get every snotty kid into college?

You took the words right out of my mouth as far as the university system over here goes. We're a little country with a lot of people, and we simply don't have the places available to meet the government's quotas of having so many ethnic minority/dyslexic/autistic/deprived background students before academic potential and course suitability is even assessed.

I can't say I agree with the topic of the post, as I think teachers in failing schools deal with some horrendous situations that they really shouldn't have to deal with. Knives, physical violence, and just the other day I was reading about a teacher who was put through a trial on rape allegations (she was in fact stalked by three of her students, who then, with the whiff of compensation, decided to blame her when she gave them the cold shoulder.) However, I also don't think it's much worse than the millions of pounds poured into these schools to give them fancy new 'academy' names, and facilities that are usually graffiti'ed or burned down in due course. I don't know how to save the state system, but I don't believe in either of these methods.

[Pembroke_Corgi]

As a teacher, I have to say NO, I don't agree with this legislation. I don't really think people in "normal" jobs have a grasp on just how hard teachers work or how many hours they put in, or how much money they spend out of their own pockets to teach their students as best they can.

When I was teaching, I thought about my students a lot out of the classroom, and ways I could help them, not to mention all the school nights/conferences/meetings/grading/preparing lessons, etc. It is a LOT of work, and even if you try to reach every student there are parents who will completely blow you off, kids that come to school hungry, and many, many expectations you need to meet. As a teacher you can do everything within your power to help your students and it may work some or even most of the time. However, it is not within a teacher's control to make sure parents are doing their jobs, too. You would not believe the amount of parents who ignore correspondence and refuse to help their kids or even make sure they do their homework (or even make sure they have a lunch/and or lunch money!).

I believe if teachers get paid based on student performance, the only schools that will have enough teachers are ones in wealthy areas. The kids who really need the help will again fall short.

[Lady's Human]

Money spent per capita DOES NOT EQUAL better education.

[cassiesmom]

There is an Oprah show where she sent a crew to two schools. Harper High School in Chicago's Englewood neighborhood, and Neuqua Valley High School in Naperville (west suburb of Chicago). I was stunned and saddened by the conditions at Harper. The desks looked like they were from the '60s; they wanted to have a band program but didn't have nearly enough instruments; kids who qualified for AP courses had to travel to another school; the pool was empty and the benches in the boys' weight room were patched together with duct tape. Neuqua is a pretty typical suburban high school, loads of accelerated and AP classes, gym, pool, band and choir, sports, arts. Oprah then had some kids from each school visit the other school. The kids from Neuqua were shocked at what they saw and wanted to know how students could do well with what they had. The kids from Harper - well, you could have knocked them over with a feather.

A couple of years ago, one of the Chicago aldermen tried to register a group of Chicago public high school students up at New Trier, which is one of the best, if not the best, high schools in the state.

What I want to know is - colleges want a diverse student body, but how can a student from Harper do as well as someone from Neuqua or New Trier? Are colleges holding students from the best schools to higher admissions standards? How can two dissimilar schools prepare students to the same ability?

How do high schools assess whether a student is college material or not, and what do they do for those who are not?

[jennielynn1970]

How about having parents that actually raise their children and help them with homework??

How about we deduct from their pay, or increase it, for their child doing poorly/better on tests in school.

I think this would be equitable.

[Cataholic]

As a teacher, I have to say NO, I don't agree with this legislation. I don't really think people in "normal" jobs have a grasp on just how hard teachers work or how many hours they put in, or how much money they spend out of their own pockets to teach their students as best they can.

As an attorney, I can say the same thing. I can easily think of $30,000 in uncollected attorney fees- I did the work, and I did not get paid. I have a blackberry, internet access at home to stay in touch with people on Friday- the day I don't work, and don't get paid (LOL), I have certain clothes I buy for work, I call people and re-remind them of court dates, I meet clients at their homes or some other place to make it easier on them. I could go on and on. MOST professionals work more than the 'face time' reflected in the office. I had a client call me at 10 pm one night! And, no, it was not an ER. I didn't sign up for a 9-5 job, and I knew that going in. Saturday appointments cause the client says, "I work during the week, so I need to see you after work or on the weekend". Uh, hello? Guess what? I work, too! During the day, and not on the weekends (as a rule).

I don't think teachers hold the market on how hard they work.