Is it better to treat the dogs condition or let him live out his days as comfortable

**iluvterriers** · 03-11-2010, 01:56 PM

This isn't actually my dog, but its someone I knows dog. This is a question she asked elsewhere and I asked her if I could put it here. This one will really make you think.

They were advised by a vet on this one.

The dog in question is a 5 year old Papillon

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First of all we know our dogs chances of living a long life aren't as great as most dogs. We've known that since he was a puppy.

He has had a lot of health problems since the day we brought him home, but he has always overcome all of them.

But now we are faced with a bigger choice. I have learned with this dog that sometimes medical intervention isn't always the answer. Sometimes the vet isn't always right. If I had listened to my previous vet, the vet we had when he was very ill, this dog would be dead now.

Anyways we think he has developed a condition with his heart. We don't know what it is. His heartrate is very irregular, its more than just a murmer.

The vet said looking at his past history we have two options....we can put him through all sorts of tests, bloodwork, ekgs, etc and then once we know what it is figure out what is going on and we could operate if needed but most likely he would have to be put on medication the rest of his life, medication with some rather nasty side effects........

Or....

We can treat it as it comes and just let him live out the rest of his days (however short or long they may be) without anymore real medical intervention, he doesn't appear to be in any pain as of now. He is still his happy self. He doesn't act sick.

This dog spent the first 3 years of his life in and out of the pet hospital, he almost died on 3 occasions.

He is a real fighter. He is still young and he still has a lot of life left in him. We know he could have another 4 or 5 years left in him (with or without treatment) or he could have a week. All we know for sure is regardless if we treat him or not, his little heart is going to just wear out and stop beating.

But I am wondering, is it really right to keep pumping his veins full of medication? Is it really right to keep putting him through all those tests and hospital stays?

I guess my question is: Is it better to keep treating him and preventing all these things atleast for now or is it better to just let him live his life and treat him for pain as it comes and let him go when his time comes (possibly put him down if he ends up in too much pain if he doesnt go on his own).

What would you do?

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What would you do?

Continue to medically intervene or let nature take its course? (Ofcourse by letting nature take its course treating him for pain and being willing to make the decision to let him go when the pain was too much)

Thanks

By the way at this point they do know what the dogs problem is: its the beginning stages of congestive heart failure

So the issue at hand is the dog has been in the hospital on and off for most of his life....is it better to just say no more hospitals and let him live whats left in peace or go ahead and do everything possible to keep him alive

**pomtzu** · 03-11-2010, 03:55 PM

If it was my dog, and I had already spent a lot of money on his healthcare, then I would certainly treat this condition, as long as it is treatable. Early CHF is not an immediate death sentence, and he could go on to live many more reasonably comfortable years. When it gets to the point that the dog no longer has any quality of life, or is in pain, then I would let him go.

I hope poochie comes out on top in this case!

**Catlady711** · 03-11-2010, 05:15 PM

I don't know alot of specifics, but we have a number of clients with dogs with heart problems. Most of them are on medications and some are still going strong a few years after the problem was discovered.

If it was my dog I'd be checking with another vet for a second opinon, and probably some minimal additional bloodwork, possibly some x-rays too and if warranted go to the medication. I think I'd be hesitant to be jumping into any kind of surgery for it without trying the above first and seeing where that leads.

Just my opinion anyways.

My Dusty had Congestive Heart Faillure. She'd had a murmer since at least age 5 that we know of because she came to us as a stray. Her downside is that as a cat there aren't quite as many choices available for them as there are for dogs. And to boot she was dealing with severe arthritis of which cats also get the short end of the stick on meds too. She lived about 2 years after being diagnosed and I had her PTS at the age of 17.

I hope things work out for your friend's dog.

**Freedom** · 03-11-2010, 05:17 PM

How sad for the family! And how frustrating, to barely get this wee one through one issue than another pops up . . . and another . . . and another.

I don't know anything about CHF to understand how intense treatment may be. I'd say just keep him comfortable, but I could change that if I knew more.

**Asiel** · 03-11-2010, 06:27 PM

I'd treat it for as long as possible. They have wonderful new meds for heart problems now. Just my feelings but no way would I ever not treat any dog of mine except if it was invasive and caused pain to the dog.

**king2005** · 03-11-2010, 06:51 PM

Honestly, if the owners think they have put him through enough & are asking that question, then I think they know the answer. Leave him be.

Humans do the same thing.. THey fight & fight & fight for their lives, then after so many surgeries & medications, & hospital visits, they've had enough. They know they are fighting time & stressing about it, so after a while they step back & say no. Let me be comfy & happy until my final breath...

My bestest childhood friend (we'd been friends since the day I was born & he was 11 months older then me.. we were also childhood crushes) did that when he was 21. There was hope in the beginning & he fought hard & somehow lived... then cancer # 2 showed up, then 3, then 4 then 5 then 6... He made them stop counting at 6. He refused all medication (except pain pills) & all medical aids... he lived about 24 more hrs & finally died. I sometimes wonder if it was really worth putting him through all that hell to live in hell for almost 2yrs & die in it... int he 2yrs he didn't have a normal day at life.. it was pills, pain, deformities (caused by the cancers mutating him), new body parts becoming paralyzed, etc...

**cali** · 03-11-2010, 07:48 PM

I have been in this situation...I chose to do things naturally. with Misty my option was either operate and hope to god they god all the cancer, and if they didnt that fact could kill her..leave it be..or go the natural route. the first vet was pushing to get the thing removed immedietly, we were hesitant because she had litteraly JUST had not one by TWO surgerys, so instead we took her to a different vet..this vet reccomend againt surgery..at least for now..she said that Misty had been through enough and the surgery could kill her, she suggested we try a natural methode of control..a diet change-high protien, high fat, low carb along with reduce her stress and add in more earth greens...so we went that route. the 2.5" cancerous tumour vannished inside of 3 weeks, and her behaviour went back to normal.

now I am doing it with Ladybug..she is in heart failure and has bad hips and a broken tooth and approx. 13 years old. she is not on a single drug and I flat out refuse to do any further testing. I am treating things naturally as they come. rather then the matacam the vet suggested I am giving her Tumeric..yes the spice. its a natural version of metacam..i give her 1/4 tsp a day for the pain, I give her 1 hawthorn capsule per day to support her heart, vit C to support her immune system, and Glucosimine to support her joints. all these things are natural and safe..they will either help or they wont..as opposed to most drugs which will either help her or kill her..thats not a chance I am willing to take! this combo of suppliments makes a HUGE difference, they povide natural support to the problem areas without causing her harm in the process, and that for me is the biggest thing. I am not willing to risk my dogs life with conventional medicine if I can use suppliments to help her body help itself.

**king2005** · 03-11-2010, 08:10 PM

I did a wiki search encase others were curious about this spice too
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turmeri..._folk_medicine

**Alysser** · 03-11-2010, 08:56 PM

I can't say much about this because, personally, if you're not in that exact particular situation, you just can't really judge or see all around the spectrum.

My RB Sassy had been sickly since age 2, she lived till 10. She had alot of skin and eye problems. She got arthritis when she was 8 turning 9, and she lasted a year more and a half with it. You could tell she had given up the fight, and lost the will to live. In the end, she didn't even get up to eat her food.

She ate everything in sight, but that morning she didn't eat. It was the saddest morning of my life, and the worst feeling in the world. She was just in too much pain, despite pain meds and even acupuncture, we knew it was over.

I guess, if it was my dog, I'd evaluate ALL options and note the pros and cons of both. The natural route, sounds better, personally. But that's not always the best option. I feel like this dog has a strong will to live and alot left in him, so maybe he should be put on meds, the only thing drawing me out of that is the "nasty side effects". It's really hard to judge this when I don't know much about the dog, or when I am not in the situation myself.

Either way, I hope the owners choose what they feel is right and the dog lives a long happy life

**Twisterdog** · 03-11-2010, 09:04 PM

Heart conditions in dogs, as in humans, are not an automatic death sentence. Nor are they an automatic bankruptcy if treated.

My RB cocker, Lacie, had pretty serious heart issues. I was told, by three different vets, that she would not live past six to eight years, at most. She lived to be almost seventeen.

If I were in these people's shoes, I would at the very least get some more information and opinions from vets.

If the dog were fifteen instead of five, I would give a different answer.

**iluvterriers** · 03-11-2010, 10:46 PM

The problem with medicating is finding the right medicines that won't interact badly with the medicines he is already on, this dog is on a lot of medications already. They aren't ready to put him down but they did decide no more, just make him comfortable. The vet said with his other medical problems it was best to put him down than try to treat this condition on top of it. But he isn't in any real pain yet as far as the heart problem. There are some procedures they said they could do to possibly lessen his other issues and get him off some of the meds he is on to help treat the heart problem, but it would be taking a huge risk just putting him under for the procedure.

So I guess the concern is the interactions and the procedure.

Again I'm not in the situation I'm just relaying it as it was explained to me.

I would love to say that their choice is wrong, to not treat. And that if it was my dog I would do everything possible to keep my dog going.

But as the owner of a dog that also had a rough start, thankfully he has made a full recovery, I can also see where they are coming from. So as their friend I can support their decision.

They are dealing with so much more than I ever was with my dog. (He just suffers from gastrointestinal issues, though we almost lost him twice)

All I can say is if I was in their situation I don't know how I would approach the situation and work through it.

I guess you can't know until you are in the situation.

I will tell you they aren't bad people and they would do anything for their dog, but sadly they are having to make some tough decisions right now.

Anyways this just really got me thinking, and just wondered what people would do if they were in this situation.