Don't ask, Don't tell

[wombat2u2004]

Then why would they consider passing the laws ????
I know that lawmakers are usually very much out of touch with REAL issues, but surely they can use their heads when it involves something as important as the military.

[Lady's Human]

It's all about social engineering, and has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the force.

[Lady's Human]

The problem is you're focusing on the physical ability, and completely ignoring the psychology of the soldiers on the pointy end of things.

Just because someone has the raw physical ability to do something doesn't mean they are suited for the military. If their presence is going to be disruptive to the team, they're not fit to serve. You don't adjust the mindset of 40 soldiers in a platoon so you can make one fit in, it just doesn't work that way. The 40 will find a way to take care of the one, and chances are, unlike DADT discharges, it won't be covered by the media.

[LokiDog]

I think you are missing the part about this not having ANYthing to do with ability.

Your right. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was responding to the post by Lady's Human on whether they could serve in the military.

I believe you should not be discriminated against just because of sexual orientation.

If I remember my history. Blacks were not allowed in the military until they proved themselves as Buffalo Soldiers, or special units during the civil war...

Not allowed to be pilots until the Tuskegee Airmen in WWII and so on.

I DON'T think that gays need to prove themselves as capable before being allowed to serve. But might this be a way to opening the door to universal acceptance?
I don't know - just a thought.

[Lady's Human]

Blacks were part of the US Military since the Revolutionary war.

The military's treatment of blacks wasn't always proper, and was shameful in many respects, but they were allowed to serve.

Pres. Truman changed that with his order to the military to integrate NOW!

This is a different kettle of fish. The main reason for the segregation of the military was the presence of many southern aristocrats in the senior ranks who carried their prejudice with them. Rank and file enlisted didn't care, they could fight, they knew they could fight, it was an issue with the leadership, not the troops (For the most part.....racism still exist in the military, and will, always, as long as the military is made up of people)


It will take more than an executive order to change this.

[wombat2u2004]

I believe you should not be discriminated against just because of sexual orientation.

I'm sorry, I don't agree with this new age term "Sexual orientation".
I'll just call it what I always have "A sexual perversion"
I'm sorry if I have offended, but I do have an opinion and a belief that these so called groups just want rights. I suppose it's a shame that evolution never equiped humans to be asexual, so that gay men can have children, but I guess that's just tough luck....eh ????

[smokey the elder]

*trout slap* I SO don't agree with that statement. *sigh*. I'll grant that there are UCMJ (I used the term "SOP" because in a regulated environment these have the force of law BTW) rules that I, as a civilian, have no clue about. However, I still stand by my lay opinion that the UCMJ rules, over time might be modified. Maybe the armed forces aren't ready for this kind of liberal thinking. If so, that's unfortunate, that the armed forces, in a time of slow recruitment, may be missing out on some very good soldiers/sailors/Marines.

All of the above is solely MY opinion, and not intended to flame anyone.

[wombat2u2004]

Blacks were part of the US Military since the Revolutionary war.

The military's treatment of blacks wasn't always proper, and was shameful in many respects, but they were allowed to serve.

Pres. Truman changed that with his order to the military to integrate NOW!

This is a different kettle of fish. The main reason for the segregation of the military was the presence of many southern aristocrats in the senior ranks who carried their prejudice with them. Rank and file enlisted didn't care, they could fight, they knew they could fight, it was an issue with the leadership, not the troops (For the most part.....racism still exist in the military, and will, always, as long as the military is made up of people).

Very true !!!! We had a Searchlight team with us in Nam.....there was one black guy and two white guys, and I remember one of the white guys was from Alabama. They gave that black guy real crap, all of the time treated him so badly. I won't tell you what eventually happened here on this thread, I'll PM you some time and tell you the story.....not good.

[sasvermont]

......and will continue to change, thank goodness.

[blue]

......and will continue to change, thank goodness.

And if change causes unrest among our troops, its a good thing?


I would bet both LH and Puck served with the gays during their years in the service. I would further bet that there was a gay in my training platoon, and more then one in my series, and maybe a half a dozen or more on MCRDSD during my short time there. I cant speak for Puck or LH, but I dont have any problem with gays in our military and I dont think they do either.

I can see this "change" ending badly if the PC and GA groups have too much say in the "change".

[wombat2u2004]

This documentary just about explains it all..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2ecasPqhgk

[blue]

I may have to smack my Ausie friends around if this is what yall call documentary.

But that isnt to far off from what I fear will happen if the PC and GA groups get their way.

[Alysser]

I'm sorry, I don't agree with this new age term "Sexual orientation".
I'll just call it what I always have "A sexual perversion"
I'm sorry if I have offended, but I do have an opinion and a belief that these so called groups just want rights. I suppose it's a shame that evolution never equiped humans to be asexual, so that gay men can have children, but I guess that's just tough luck....eh ????

Wow, I cannot even believe the amount of ignorance in that post. There is offering an opinion, and then there's just being blatantly rude.

[Catty1]

It will be a more peaceful day, I think, when humans are just referred to as "sexual" with no prefix in front of the word.

That should include just about everyone.

[Karen]

And if change causes unrest among our troops, its a good thing?

If the unrest is simply that, yes. There was unrest when the service was integrated, but it settled down after some time. Hopefully this is handled well, and the same will happen.