Curious About A Lot of Things...

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

I hope the Health folder is the right place to post this.
I have not posted here much and am curious as to what kinds of things regulars here practice as far as things like:

Litter box

Types of food

Indoor/outdoor

For/against declawing

I've been going by the practice that the general rule of thumb for litter boxes is one box per cat plus one...to avoid litter box wars for multi-cat households, and for the case that some cats don't like to share and some don't like to pee where they poop.

I've also learned that many vets are not schooled in nutrition and it us up to we, the cat parents, to learn about nutrition. And that most grocery store brands as well as Hills/Science Diet are "junk food". That it's important to learn to read labels and know what cats need, that they are obligate carnivores and should not have corn and other grains. And that wet food diets are much healthier than dry food diets.

After having lost 11 of my past 12 cats to the road despite living rural, I made a personal choice to keep all cats indoors now. I was "catless" from 1998 to 2005...when Philly came into our lives in '05, I had already committed myself that cats would be strictly indoors.

I am against declawing. Is declawing a taboo subject here? I know it can cause a lot of controversy and arguing, and if it is something not encouraged to be talked about here, I will abide by those guidelines.

So, I have 4 strictly indoor only not declawed females and 6 litter boxes and they eat a mostly wet food diet which I am sad to say for now is Friskies because no one is employed in our home right now. I would prefer to keep them on the previous rotation they had been on, and still sneak the good foods in when I have a few extra dollars...previous to unemployment I was feeding a rotation of Natural Balance, Chicken Soup and Performatrin canned foods, usually the chicken flavors. They get small snacks of dry food but mostly canned food for their diets.

Rather than searching around for posts, I figured I'd just jump right in and ask about these things and see what kind of responses I get. Thanks for listening and thanks for any responses!

[Freedom]

Hi Pat --

We've had many threads on each of those topics! As a multi cat household, I can tell you what goes on here:

- yes, I subscribe to one box per plus one. That changed in July when I had my hardwood floors redone, and moved boxes to the cellar. Due to the "construction," I had 9 boxes for (then) 11 cats. Now 10 cats. I like having the boxes off the newly redone floors, and kept it that way. Seems to be fine.

- Food. I fed Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul kibble for the last 2 years and happy with it. Prior, I fed Science Diet for 14 years "because my vet said to." Only after joining PT, and adopting my first bichon, did I start to research foods. I have continued my studies and now in process of moving to a grain free diet or both dogs and cats. I bought Taste of the Wild brand Rocky Mountain Feline Formula today, but won't be starting it for about 3 weeks (opened last bag of Chicken Soup today).

Saw a huge improvement in my cats when I switched from Science Diet to Chicken Soup. I expect to see some improvement with grain free, but not as major as I am already using a great food. I switched the dogs to grain free in Sept and WOW! The eye gunk has disappeared! I hope the 3 cats with eye gunk will "lose" it when I make the switch.

Interesting note: my vet noticed the major change in my cats when I switched off the Science Diet; but was not so excited when I said I had stopped the SD and moved to a high quality food. LOL!!

- my cats are indoor only. I do not believe any cats should be allowed free roam; I don't think domestic cats today are not equipped to deal with the hazards they will face. Even my feral borns were not, IMO, equipped to deal with cars. My first cat, Amber, (Mr. Amber Cat), did not like becoming indoor only. I used a harness and leash and he walked outdoors daily, rain, snow, ice, cold we WERE GOING around our apartment building, not once, not three times, but TWICE. LOL he was a creature of very specific habits. If Amber could make the transition, any cat has a good chance of making the transition. He was born feral and about 2 years old when I "poofed!" him, lol.

- you will find several "hotly discussed" threads on declawing if you use the search function. I am against it under any circs, as cruelty, and wish it were outlawed here as it is in England.

I am quite sure others will weigh in.

[krazyaboutkatz]

Welcome to PT Pat. I just looked at your album and all of your cats are gorgeous. I currently have 5 cats and 6 litter boxes. I only have 2 that are covered so they have the option of using either covered or uncovered boxes. I use an unscented clumping litter called Precious Cat by Dr. Elsey and this is working out well for cats.

I also agree that most vets aren't very educated in nutrition and they just want to sell their prescription diet food. I do have a very well educated vet now and when my RB Starr was diagnosed with IBD/Colitis at first I did try the ZD Hills diet but it didn't work well. She then researched and suggested that I try a grain free diet like Innova Evo. I've been feeding this to all of my cats for a little over 2 years now. I don't free feed any more so I feed them 4 small meals a day and they get dry as well as canned Innova Evo and also some canned Nature's Variety. This diet has really helped my cat Storm with his urinary tract issues. They all have beautiful soft coats and much more energy too.

I've always had indoor only cats and I feel that they are much safer. I live in a condo complex and we aren't allowed to let our cats roam free any way. I'm also again declawing. When my RB Pepper was a kitten my mom talked me into having him declawed. This changed his personality and I decided that I'll never do that again and I haven't. I wish that the U.S. would outlaw declawing.

There is a dog house section on PT for topics that are more controversial. I usually never go there though. I hope you'll enjoy it here.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Hi Freedom, thanks for your reply.
I'm glad it looks like most people here are going to be on the same page as me, so to speak. I didn't want to jump into conversations as a newbie sounding like some know-it-all! There are some pet forums out there that are totally all about the cute and never-mind the learning to take better care of your pets, so they won't listen to anyone elses opinions or advice.

It is a shame most vets are not schooled in nutrition.
Also a shame most don't explain exactly what declawing is when clients want it done.

I definitely noticed a difference in my cats' over all health and also my somewhat overweight one got to a better weight when I switched to scheduled, measured feedings of mostly wet food. I hope so much the DH or myself can find a job soon so I can get off the Friskies. But I must admit, the girls have been doing okay on it.

I was forced to research foods when my recently re-homed Tiger Lily was going through her cystitis issues. But changing her diet wasn't enough to keep her healthy, since the problem was stress related, and the stress was the other cats. All my research told me, and folks who'd been through the problem and shared their experiences told me, cats with urinary issues really shouldn't get dry...So when the vet suggested dry, I nearly fell off the chair but bit my tongue. My vet is wonderful for all medical issues and has a fantastic "bedside" manner.

I'm not much for controversy but if asked my opinion on de-clawing, I will give it. I will also tell folks who sound like they have no idea what de-clawing is, what it really is. Many people are totally shocked to hear it isn't simply claw removal.

I'll also share my ideas on food, even though right now since finances have me feeding Friskies mostly I kind of feel like a hypocrite suggesting people feed good quality food. I usually will use the example of "do you see lions and tigers running to a corn field to eat? read the label of what you're feeding, I bet there are at least 3 versions of corn in it." That will sometimes get people interested enough to listen to more of the knowledge of gained from research.

My Kit had loose, smelly, frequent bowel movements as a kitten. I did consult the vet and with a short course of Fagyl AND getting her and the other cats off Purina dry food and onto better quality mostly wet food diet, the bad stools stopped.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Hi Krazyaboutkatz, thanks for your reply!

As I mentioned to Freedom, I didn't want to jump in on conversations, as a newbie, sounding like an opinionated know-it-all. I'm glad there is knowledge and/or willingness to learn about the better care of cats amongst the members here, and that the forum isn't just about all the cute things to do with our pets.

Thanks for the compliments on my album. I love to take pictures, I drive many of my friends nuts because I've almost always got my camera in one of my hands and take all kinds of pictures. Since "the girls" ,as I lovingly refer to my kitties, are always around, I get a lot of pictures of them, especially on days when they are in the living room and we have good light coming in so I don't need to use the flash.

I don't think I'll spend any time in the dog house! I don't like controversy but I will explain both de-clawing and diet to folks who ask.

I wish I'd have learned to be an indoor-only cat parent many years ago and not waited til 2005! All my previous kitties would've been gone by now anyway, but hopefully they would've lived much longer lives than they did. I vowed after our Sunshine, the only one to die of natural old-age causes, passed in 1998, that any future kitties would be indoors only, if I didn't want to deal with a litter box 24/7/365, I wouldn't get cats again. Alas, now I have 4 with 6 boxes! We were catless between 1998 and 2005...our intentions were to let our then-aging Jack Russell Terrier live her last years as Queen of the House before adopting/acquiring another cat, but alas, Philly showed up crying in the woods across from our house in 1005, about 2 years before our JRT's end.

I did a lot of research on foods in conjunction with urinary issues trying to keep Tiger Lily healthy...but since her cystitis was being caused by stress, and the stress was the other cats, diet wasn't a lot of help. She'd be okay for a few months, but then the cystitis would recur. It just wasn't fair to try to keep her with us because WE wanted to, it was needed for her health and complete healthiness, to find her an only-pet home. Thank goodness it didn't take long to find one and she did not sit in the adoption center for a lengthy time. She went to an adoption center where she would've lived her whole life if the right folks for her didn't come along, so even if she hadn't been adopted, she was in excellent hands and would not have been euthanized. But the one thing I learned is that cats with urinary issues do need to be on canned/wet food.

[Freedom]

Check out this book, I found it at my library:

The Whole Pet Diet, by Andi Brown.

She explains which foods -- and herbs -- do what, gives ideas on feeding and includes recipes.

I learned quite a bit from the book, and eventually bought a copy.

While you have some "enforced" free time, may be worth a browse for ya!

[aTailOf2Kitties]

I have 2 litterboxes and 2 cats. It's working fine so far.

They get Purina One sensitive systems dry (I give them a spoonful each of el-cheapo canned mixed in once a day)

Strictly indoors (although I ocasionally put a leash and harness on them for brief forays outdoors)

My cats are not currently declawed but I'm not against it. There must be a good reason for it though. My last cat was declawed when I adopted him. My current 2 don't scratch on anything they're not supposed to, so it's not an issue. I just trim their claws about once a month.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

Freedom, Thanks for the book recommendation!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

ATailof2Kitties, Thanks for a reply.
We're all entitled to our own opinions.
We can only hope to keep an open mind and at least look at or listen to other ideas on different subjects.
I've learned the hard way we can only feed what we can afford. I don't like feeding the "el cheapo" foods, but I have to for now...I supplement with some eggs now & again as we have a source for free eggs. And I sneak in the better stuff on occassion.
Our cats' bodies just weren't meant to digest grains, so it's good to try to stay away from corn and other grains.

[katladyd]

I have 2 cats and 2 litter boxes. For my household, that is working fine. I am against declawing. If your furniture means that much to you, don't have pets. I feed Purina One for urinary tract health. My boys do great on it!! I feed a little (1/2 of a small can) of Fancy Feast twice a day. I love the idea of letting my boys outdoors, but in today's world, I won't do it. It is too dangerous for cats outdoors these days. If I lived in the country, maybe.

[Ladybug70]

Hi Pat -

I have 2 indoor kitties (littermates) and, believe it or not, they've always had one litter box (a very large, covered box with multi-cat clumping litter). I know, crazy, right?! Of course being brothers, they're used to sharing and seem to have no issue with it (they've never peed/pooped elsewhere). We just clean it out often.

Our Blackie had urinary tract blockage almost 5 years ago so we've used Purina One Urinary Tract Health kibble ever since for both boys and they like it (we've tried others, including SD and they're not thrilled). We provide cat treats (soft food) every now and then. Of course, all that has changed recently with Blackie's CRF issues so we're temporarily trying out anything that he'll eat for now... and Toby is reaping the benefits with little treats on the side.

I've had numerous indoor/outdoor kitties out in the country and in smaller towns when growing up. They all seemed to thrive and loved the freedom but they always came home with injuries from various kitty battles (and one rogue porcupine). I'm living in San Diego now so it's really not safe to have kitties outdoors at any time because of the threat of coyotes, cars, etc. The boys instinctively want to be outside and sometimes I feel bad for them being cooped up all the time. But we have lots of window perches and are blessed with mild weather so we can have windows open for them to sniff the air and watch/listen to birdies in the big trees right outside our house. We also take them on supervised visits to our large, enclosed patio a few times a week.

I've never believed in declawing indoor cats. In fact, we don't even trim our boys' claws (the only times have been when they visit the vet). I figure if they are going to be neutered and indoors all the time, I might as well let them keep SOMETHING. They are good boys and use their scratching posts.

Your kitty pics are great!

Purrs,
Lisa

[katladyd]

Ladybug70, isn't that Purina One food great? I've tried all the urinary tract foods my vet recommended, and my boys didn't like them. They have both been eating this food for over a year and they still love it and come running when they hear me pouring it into their bowls! That has to be some kind of cat record! Hoping Blackie stays healthy and unblocked!

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

katladyd,
just wanted to say, don't let "country" fool you. Our area is rural, it was even more rural than it is now back when we had our other cats when we first moved here. They still got killed on the road.
Other things to consider when you are in the country are things like coyotes, hawks and eagles. Hawks will take kittens and smaller cats, as will eagles, and coyotes are a threat to cats and small dogs. We have all 3 of those predators here where I live in South Jersey.
I'll never have another outdoor cat again unless we can afford to build some kind of enclosure.

[Momto4FemaleFelines]

To all commenting on urinary issues and feeding dry.
Have you done your own research? It all points to wet food diets being best not only for cats with urinary issues, but also for all cats.
Another thing to consider when you have a cat with urinary issues: Make sure a full spin test of the urine is done, not just a litmus paper dip. Get a copy of the urinalysis, read it & research the results and then research foods to find a good one for your particular results.