Politics and religion.

[Puckstop31]

Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

Thanks,
elyse

Most governments in the world have rights based on the rights of men.

Here, it is the rights of man.

Individual vs. the collective. In a union, you all win or lose together. That is hte risk you take. On your own, you are free to pursue whatever you want. Go for it, per say. But on your own, you are also free to fail. Unions (generally speaking) protect those who fail. That is not how America is supposed to work.

Freedom is not safety. Its not equality. Its not even fair. Its FREEDOM. We have laws to try and protect your right to pursue your happiness but there is no guarantee of results....


"The greatest inequality of all is to try to make unequal things equal."
Aristotle


ETA:

Think about it this way.

What is the difference between "Yes WE can!" and "Yes I can!"

Adam Smith got it right a long time ago.

[Bonny]

Where's The Money Coming From For All This? Where Did The Money Go To? Is Someone Going Broke Or Are They Already Broke?

[Edwina's Secretary]

United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

It is also the premise behind unions.

[Grace]

United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

It is also the premise behind unions.

Similar thoughts go back further than the Founding Fathers. From Matthew 12:25 -

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

Lincoln used these works in an address he gave on June 16, 1858, in Springfield, Illinois, upon accepting the Illinois Republican Party's nomination as that state's United States senator.

[cassiesmom]

What is the National Review? Is it a conservative publication? This author writes for them. It was printed in the Chicago Tribune, which is also conservative.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...7574542.column

[Puckstop31]

Similar thoughts go back further than the Founding Fathers. From Matthew 12:25 -

And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

Lincoln used these works in an address he gave on June 16, 1858, in Springfield, Illinois, upon accepting the Illinois Republican Party's nomination as that state's United States senator.

What should Americans do then, to become more united?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Unions do not negotiate against anyone. I cannot imagine any negotiation that involves against. That defies the definition of "negotiations."

Public sector unions negotiate with the public sector administration - the school board, the mayor - the department of farming - whatever is the administrative body for which they work.

To suggest public sector unions negotiate against or even with the taxpayers is analogous to saying that private sector unions negotiate against - or with the consumer of the goods or services that union is involved with providing.

I have been involved in a few union campaigns. It has never been about money - initially. It is about the supervisors, the fairness with which the employees feel they are being treated.

I don't advocate unions. I have worked "on the other side" my whole career. I have made many speeches, home mailers, etc. about why it is better without a union. And I believe that in most cases. I have managed campaigns to defeat unions in elections and have won more than I lost.

I believe the Employee Free Choice Act is wrong and have written my congresspersons about it.

But why should public sector employees have less rights than private sector?

That is the heart of the issue.

[RICHARD]

I "unioned" for 30 years and it was a CF.

So, by not having any experience in the 'private sector' I humbly will keep my opinions to myself.

------------------


Check it out.

MG wants to fight to the last drop of blood.

Hey, whatever happened to the hack that wanted the "Mother of all Battles?"

And if Hugo Chavez gets overthrown, will Sean Penn and Oliver Stone run down to rescue him?

[cassiesmom]

But why should public sector employees have less rights than private sector?

I don't see it as public sector ee's having less rights; just different rights. That's because my tax dollars pay their salary. They are providing services that keep our society running in an organized fashion - everything from collecting trash to the practice of law in the state's attorney's office. When they agree to work in the public sector, there are certain things they give up in exchange for what they gain.

For example, I did agency work at a local hospital operated by the county health services bureau. They observed the federal holidays like Columbus Day, Veterans' Day and Dr. King's birthday - three additional days off with pay per employee per year. Their health benefit plan (for both employees and retirees) was waaaay more robust than private settings. They had access to purchasing plans for big-ticket items at deep discounts, theater and amusement park tickets, tax-free uniform purchasing (again at deep discounts), and I could go on from there. They were getting cheap prescription drugs long before Wal-Mart came up with their $4 generics. They had preferential hiring that the private sector doesn't get - they hardly ever hired from outside and they paid their existing employees gobs of overtime instead of hiring additional staff.

They could retire far earlier than the private sector. The manager to whom I reported was preparing to retire at 55. She would collect a full pension and go on to work for another 10-12 years in a completely different setting.

So ... in my mind ... public sector employee, you're working for me as a taxpayer. You chose that setting when you accepted the position. You might not realize just how good you have it as opposed to the rest of us. Take it or leave it.

[Puckstop31]

United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

It is also the premise behind unions.

Who is it that public employee unions collectively bargain against?

The taxpayer.

If that is the premise of public employee unions.... No thanks.

Any wonder why so many people are so against PUBLIC employee unions?

---

There are many people who believe in the unlimited power of the individual, when the individual is given the most Freedom possible to pursure their happiness. That does NOT mean we do not need each other.

United we stand. United by what? Love of country? God?

[wombat2u2004]

where's the money coming from for all this? Where did the money go to? Is someone going broke or are they already broke?

誰是你真正想擁有的國家呢？？？？它必須是中國...對嗎？？？
我認為貴國政府已錯失良機。

[Bonny]

誰是你真正想擁有的國家呢？？？？它必須是中國...對嗎？？？
我認為貴國政府已錯失良機。

Darn you hit the nail right on the head Wombat. Our States & Federal government don't have a pot to pee in anymore.

[wombat2u2004]

Darn you hit the nail right on the head Wombat. Our States & Federal government don't have a pot to pee in anymore.

Nope. That's because they wear them on their heads.

[cassiesmom]

May I change the subject from politics to religion just for a moment? I am so excited, I might have an opportunity to sing in church choir during Lent. My church has Sunday evening services and during Lent they are especially nice. The choir is doing the Fauré Requiem for one of them. I learned part of it in high school, haven't sung it since; but here is an opportunity to do it again There is also a handbell choir being put together for Palm Sunday... we haven't had a bell choir at my church for 10 years, so that should be nice. Then Easter is sort of a bustle, children, families, music, lilies, more music, more lilies. I like Easter at our church.

I now return the subject back to politics.

[blue]

May I change the subject from politics to religion just for a moment? I am so excited, I might have an opportunity to sing in church choir during Lent. My church has Sunday evening services and during Lent they are especially nice. The choir is doing the Fauré Requiem for one of them. I learned part of it in high school, haven't sung it since; but here is an opportunity to do it again There is also a handbell choir being put together for Palm Sunday... we haven't had a bell choir at my church for 10 years, so that should be nice. Then Easter is sort of a bustle, children, families, music, lilies, more music, more lilies. I like Easter at our church.

I now return the subject back to politics.

Awesome!!!