Runoff of the Daisy thread-kinda!

[BC_MoM]

Molly is a fantastic little girl, happy to greet everyone and everything off leash. On leash, she gets more defensive, protective and territorial. I can only imagine what living on a chain for even 24 hours would do to her.

[dab_20]

My mom still doesn't believe half of the stuff I tell her PT says because she's so set in her ways.

My mom is the same way.

My RB Cocker Spaniel, Missy, spent the first few years of her life as an outside dog. I was 5 years old when we got her, so I just followed everything my parents said and had no problem with it. Eventually, when I was about 8, I started to feel really bad for Missy because I could tell she really wanted to be inside with us. I convinced my parents to let her inside and she was inside dog for the rest of her life. She had severe fear aggression, but we dealed with it and I loved her with all my heart. She died on July 4th, 2005, shortly after we got Molli. To this day, I think she was content, felt well loved, and passed to the RB a happy dog. Never EVER again, will I ever keep a dog outside all the time. Dogs are pack animals, and NEED human companionship to be truly happy. Now, I know their are exceptions, some outside dogs are well cared for and loved, and are happy. (like many farm/working dogs)

[Nobas Mom]

Guess I have mixed thoughts on this subject as well as many do. I would never think of keeping Noba outside for any reason, however... growing up we had Newfoundlands. We had four of them (2 boys, 2 girls). We had a HUGE old farmhouse that we lived in (when I say big, picture 7 bedrooms alone and there were only four of us in the fam including parents). Anyway, two of our newfs insisted on staying outside, especially during the long cold Maine winters... We would bring them in at night when it was especially cold and they always got one on one time inside for three hours a day. But whenever Bonnie and Duke were in the house for any extended period of time, they would start pacing in the kitchen by the door and want to go back outside... so mom and step-dad built them a ridiculously huge dog run in the yard, complete with heated dog house (insulated and heated)... they had a kiddie pool for the summer and plenty of room to run. The other two crazy newfs (Mariah and Bruin) REFUSED to go outside for anything other than walks, playtime and potty. We had these neighbors up the street that tried to call animal control because Bonnie / Duke were always outside in the winter... after the agent called our vet, he began laughing. Our vet had told him that Newfies prefer to be outside in the snow (as long as it's not too cold) and that he should tell our neighbors to leave us alone. Bonnie and Duke were intended to be inside dogs from the time we got them. We got Bonnie as an 8 week old, and Duke as a 4 year old rescue from a pound in Canada (pure-bred with papers, champion lines, gonna be put to sleep three days later, bi-lingual for $50... )... but they chose the outside life much to our chagrin... and not for lack of attention and love!!! How could you not love a big slobbering newf!!!

Sorry this is so long, but just another affirmation that no matter how much love and devotion you give dogs, some of them just prefer to be outside. Bonnie lived to be 14 and Duke ended up living to be 12 I believe (we had to re-home him due to major agression towards cats). But don't worry, he went to a great home where he had undivided love and attention!!!!!

[shais_mom]

I haven't read all the replies so I hope it hasn't gotten heated. Growing up we had an outside dog. He had a dog house in the garage and access to the garage via a doggie door. The dog house was cooler in the summer than OUR house b/c we didn't have AC. He was NEVER tied - ever - had full access to 3 acres. I know a lot of people that have outside dogs on their farm and have full access to every building and nook and cranny in them. They have more shelter than dogs that are in a dog house. I HATE HATE HATE HATE to drive by houses and see big $$$$$$ house and out in the farrrrr corner of the yard is a dog house with a dog tied to it looking forlornly at the the house.

Or are waayyyyyy out there in TIED in a PEN.
when I got my first dog my greyhound she was so destructive in the house at first that people told me to make her a pen so she could be outside while I was at work I refused. Mainly the reason b/c the guy that runs the HS here in town if he would drive by and see her out there he would have taken her back. People wanted me to do the same with Keegan but I refused. She is a dog but she is also part of my family and I don't want part of my family stuck in a pen outside.

[shais_mom]

Just wanted to add, my pup used to get tied out to a tree in the front yard while we were doing yard work or playing,

Keegan used to get tied when she was a puppy at times at my parents house - now I'm not even sure where the tie out at their house. I usually have her on leash for potty trips - Tho she does go offleash quite a bit. The only time she is tied to a tree now is when I mow the yard. I like to have her outside with me to enjoy the sunshine and fresh air too but she likes to be the Neighborhood PR person so ya never know where she is going to end up. So I mow the area where the tie out is and then tie her to it and finish the yard.

[Twisterdog]

Just wanted to add something for all the young people living with their parents, where the parents want the dog to be an outside dog and the child has no choice in the matter:

I hope anyone in this situation realizes that everyone's comments on here stating that they don't agree with outside-only dogs are directed to adults who choose to do this, not children who have no choice in the matter. We realize that you all must live with rules you do not necesarily agree with, and no one is placing any fault on you whatsoever.

And I say this also from experience. When I was growing up, our dogs were outside dogs. Period. My parents both grew up on ranches, where dogs had a job to do and lived outside. Dogs were another animal with a purpose, and my grandparents would no more have let one of their ranch dogs in the house than they would have let in a horse or a goat or a chicken. It never crossed their minds, I'm sure. These dogs were not pets, they were employees.

My parents continued that philosophy. However, our dogs were pets, with no jobs to do. There is a difference. Now, my parents are the sweetest, kindest people you'd ever meet. So I'm certainly not saying people who have outside dog are mean, horrible people. My parents were simply ignorant of the ways dogs function socially, and carrying on an outdated practice out of habit.

The three dogs we had when I lived at home were in no way abused. They had a double-walled, insulated, raised dog house heated with a lightbulb. It was probably almost as warm in there as it was in the house. They had water and food. And in the summer when we were young kids, they had some company, when we were all playing in the back yard. Honestly, though, as we grew up that play-time diminished. They were never abused. But were they neglected? I think so. They spent no time in the house, they had little human interaction compared to a house dog. They had a good life, if you look in terms of basic necessities ... food, water, shelter, vaccinations, vet care. But they didn't have much quality of life, in terms of being part of the family. And they had it a LOT better than a lot of outside dogs ... they were never chained, we had a huge yard, and they had each other. My heart truly breaks for the single dog living alone outside. That is like a life of solitary confinement for a social animal.

Just wanted to clarify.

[Canis-Lupess]

This is taken from the Border Collie rescue site in the UK.

"Bonding

They have a strong instinct to bond with one person and this is often over-stimulated in a pet home because of the intimate nature of our relationship with our pet animals. It is this attribute that makes the breed so attractive to us. We all want a loyal pet and it is flattering to be the centre of the dogs attention.

Border Collies fare best when they spend day time with their owner in a working relationship and at night spend time apart from their owners in their own space. If you do not get the balance right the dog becomes so dependent on being around the owner that it become stressed and suffers trauma in the absence of the owner. this is known as separation anxiety and is a common problem with pet Border Collies.

They will tend to follow the owner around like they are attached to them with elastic - sometimes very close - sometimes a few foot away - but always at the heel of the owner. If you are familiar with working sheepdogs you may have noticed that the stockman's dog is always there, in the background watching, but is content to keep a distance until needed. unlike many pet Border Collies they do not feel the need to be so close they are constantly underfoot.

They can also get confused if they have to share a relationship with more than one individual. They are bred to bond to one person and although they can switch allegiance with little problem, if they have two or more people demanding their attention it conflicts with their need to bond to one. One man and his dog is no coincidence, although one man can get the adoration and loyalty of many dogs without conflict."

So for those who insist a dog should be with them 24/7, they are wrong. Dogs living like this get seperation anxiety and become over-attached.


Ok, I have always kept my dogs outdoors and some people in here may wonder why I have dogs if I don't keep them inside. Well, here are the reasons. I love dogs, I love training them, I love taking them out for walks, I love taking photos of them, grooming them, interacting with them etc....
I have a strong bond with my dogs and they live outside. The bond between my dogs and me is stronger than between many indoor dogs I know and their owners. When I take them out, they are well behaved, don't run off, come back when called and are good mannered with people. As they got older, they started to dislike small children but many dogs are that way whether they live inside or not.
When they were younger, I used to take them agility training every sunday morning and taught them to perform similar stunts on the seesaws, climbing frames, swings etc..at the local park. Our Monty also used to love the roundabout...we'd set it going round and he'd have a whale of a time chasing the handles for ages, haha....
At the weekends and in school holidays, I used to just get all the dogs and disappear off down the fields with them for up to 5-6 hours at a time...because I liked it. It was peaceful, interesting exploring the countryside, my friend often used to come too.

When I was a child, taking the dogs out for at least 2 long walks a day was the most notable thing about having them. It's what I grew up with. We always had about 5 dogs at once and they were all happy and well cared for and better behaved than many indoor dogs we used to know. I often used to go with my dad or grandad when they took the dogs out. My grandad would take them in the morning and then my dad would take them early evening time, both times an hour and a half or longer. As us kids got older, we'd also take them extra walks at other times when not at school to the point where they were hardly ever at home.

Fact is, a dog who lives outdoors but gets plenty of exercise and is trained and taken proper care of is better off than a dog that lives indoors but never gets taken out for walks and only gets being let out in the back garden to look forward to.
Yes, I know plenty of indoor dogs who never get taken for walks. Being indoors doesn't help them. They are often aggressive towards people when they do go out in public, often hyper and jump all over visitors to the house, totally untrained. My oldest sister has a dog who lives inside but she never takes out. He's completely hyper and uncontrollable.

I can't count the number of fellow dog walkers who asked me if I'd train their dogs for them over the years. Their dogs no doubt lived indoors, mine outdoors yet mine were better behaved and had better manners.

I am also perfectly aware of my dogs anatomy. They get groomed every day so I know if anything changes and they get veterinary treatment if anything is wrong with them.

Some people might ask why I don't keep them indoors if I love them so much. Well, as a child, we always just kept them outdoors. They had adequate shelter, kennels, sheds etc...it was just the way of things. Having a number of dogs also meant it wasn't practical to keep them indoors.
Now it's more down to the parents not allowing the dogs inside except an bonfire and new year to keep them away from fireworks. At night, I think it is important for a dog to spend that time alone as they state in the BC rescue site. Doesn't really matter whether they are outside or downstairs etc...especially for a hardy weather resistant dog like the BC who doesn't care if it's cold.
The ancestors of all our dogs were born and bred outside and lived outside on farms etc....It was the normal type of life for a BC.
I don't feel the need to have them with me 24/7 in order to love them. I generally need my own space even from other people and so do they.

Even though my dogs live outside, they were always behaved when we brought them in at bonfire and they never had accidents on the floor either....funny that....!
They did used to lay there and pant and would often start pacing after a while, epsecially when the fireworks died down and they weren't scared anymore....Border collies are dogs that prefer to be outdoors generally. When we opened the door to let them out, they'd shoot out like rockets and back to where they were used to spending the night.

I take our Jess for three walks a day, 4 if I'm working a short day shift. I also bring her down into the porch for some of the time. It's basically just like an extension of the kitchen and the door inbetween is often left open if it's not too cold.
When she is tired, and she gets tired more now at 13, she likes to go up to her shed and go to bed. When they had their run and I got home from walks, I'd let them off their leads and they would go trotting straight to their run, even if I didn't follow them up to close the run door. There were a couple of times when I went indoors and forgot I'd not closed the run door but I found they didn't come out of the run, even if the door was open. It was their little haven where they retired to when they wanted to rest.
Now the run is gone and our Jess has a plot of lawn around the shed. The shed has a small opening with carpet cut into strips over it to help keep our draughts so that she can let herself in and out of the shed and onto the lawn at anytime. In her shed, she has a bed with blankets and such in and her water etc...She has loads of toys, some in the shed and some scattered about on the lawn. The shed has windows across the front so, in daylight, It's always bright in there. There is a main stable type door for me to get in and out and I can leave the whole thing open or just the top half when the weather is warmer.
There is also a work bench in there for repotting plants etc...
Nothing else is kept in the shed now but I can spend ages in there repotting cacti during the spring and summer, I have a 16ft x 6ft greenhouse full of them. This means that I'll also be with our Jess when repotting the plants etc...If I'm doing something in the greenhouse or the garden, I have her loose and with me anyway.

During summer, we spend much of our time at home out in the garden and she'll be able to spend even more time in our presence then.

I certainly don't agree with dogs being left outdoors with no attention, training or exercise but if they are given those things then I don't see there being a problem with it.

I also don't think it is fair to accuse people of neglecting their dogs just because they keep them outdoors. I see many dogs kept indoors that get neglected just as much.

[pitc9]

When I drive past a house where dogs are left outside 24/7 I send them a post card I bought from Dogs Deserve Better.

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/home.html

I send it to them in the mail (with no return address) because no dog deserves to live it's life alone.

edit:
This is one style of postcards I bought to send to houses that have dogs left outside all year long.
http://www.cafepress.com/dogsdeserve.8539313

[shais_mom]

When I drive past a house where dogs are left outside 24/7 I send them a post card I bought from Dogs Deserve Better.

http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/home.html

I send it to them in the mail (with no return address) because no dog deserves to live it's life alone.

edit:
This is one style of postcards I bought to send to houses that have dogs left outside all year long.
http://www.cafepress.com/dogsdeserve.8539313

there is a house I pass every time I go to my parents house.......
that I ordered 2 sets of postcards and the block DDB sticker for my car
I'm sending them a postcard when they come in....