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Thread: How ridiculous is this?

  1. #1

    How ridiculous is this?

    I swear...where is this world coming to? I saw the video of this on cnn. Ridiculous...Sheesh

    http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-kidsre...ll=ktla-news-1

    Bill Would Require Married Couples To Have Children

    Rachel La Corte, Associated Press

    February 13, 2007, 8:22 PM PST

    Proponents of same-sex marriage have introduced an initiative that would put a whole new twist on traditional unions between men and women: It would require heterosexual couples to have kids within three years or have their marriages annulled.

    Initiative 957 was filed by the Washington Defense of Marriage Alliance, which was formed last summer after the state Supreme Court upheld Washington's ban on same-sex marriage. In that 5-4 ruling, the court found that state lawmakers were justified in passing the 1998 Defense of Marriage Act, which restricts marriage to unions between a man and woman.

    Under I-957, marriage would be limited to men and women who are able to have children. Couples would be required to prove they can have children to get a marriage license, and if they did not have children within three years, their marriages would be subject to annulment.

    All other marriages would be defined as "unrecognized" and people in them would be ineligible to receive any marriage benefits.

    "Absurd? Very," the group says on its Web site, which adds it is planning two more initiatives involving marriage and procreation. "But there is a rational basis for this absurdity. By floating the initiatives, we hope to prompt discussion about the many misguided assumptions" underlying the Supreme Court's ruling.

    Gregory Gadow, who filed I-957 last month, said the three-year timeframe was arbitrary.

    "We did toy with the idea of [requiring] procreation before marriage," he said.

    "We didn't want to piss off the fundamentalists too much."

    Gadow said that if the group's initiatives were passed, the Supreme Court would be forced to strike them down as unconstitutional, which he believes would weaken the original ruling upholding the Defense of Marriage Act. But he said he highly doubts any of the initiatives will pass, and that they are being done "in the spirit of political street theater."

    "Our intention is not to actually put this into law," he said. "All we want is to get this on the ballot and cause people to talk about it."

    The group's Web site gives another reason: "And at the very least, it should be good fun to see the social conservatives who have long screamed that marriage exists for the sole purpose of procreation be forced to choke on their own rhetoric."

    Cheryl Haskins, executive director of Allies for Marriage & Children, agreed with Gadow's group on at least one point about the initiative: "It's absurd," she said.

    Haskins said opponents of same-sex marriage "have never said that the sole purpose of marriage is procreation."

    "When we talk about defending the institution of marriage, we're talking about the union of a man and a woman," she said. "Some of those unions produce children and some of them don't."

    With I-957, "you're dictating people's choices in a way that is utterly ridiculous," she said.

    However, Gadow noted that the Supreme Court's majority decision specifically mentioned procreation throughout.

    The opinion written by Justice Barbara Madsen concluded that "limiting marriage to opposite-sex couples furthers the state's interests in procreation and encouraging families with a mother and father and children biologically related to both."

    Gadow said the argument is unfair when you're dealing with same-sex couples who are unable to have children together.

    "What we are trying to do is display the discrimination that is at the heart of last year's ruling," he said.

    Even the Legislature's most prominent proponent of same-sex marriage, Sen. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, said he thought the initiative was misguided. While the "absurdity" of the Supreme Court decision should be discussed, that discussion needs to take place in the Legislature, he said.

    "I don't think the initiative process should be used to determine the rights and protections of marriage," he said.

    Murray, one of five openly-gay lawmakers in the Legislature, is sponsoring a measure that would create domestic partnerships for same-sex couples and another to allow same-sex marriage.
    Copyright © 2007, KTLA

  2. #2
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    I hate children, and I think this bill is a wonderful idea. I'd vote for it. They're trying to accomplish a wonderful thing with this ridiculous bill.

    Thank you Wolf_Q!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CathyBogart
    I hate children, and I think this bill is a wonderful idea. I'd vote for it.
    It has nothing to do with hating or liking children. There will always be children in this world. It has to do with couples who don't want children, or want to delay having children for over 3 years, or even if they WANT children and are unable to have children within 3 years of marriage will have their marriage ended. I have never heard of something so ridiculous and pathetic in my life. There are TONS of married couples that have kids 5, 10, 15 years after marriage. Basically, you can't even want to start a family 4 years after marriage with this bill.

  4. #4
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    The bill is not meant to succeed...it is intended to be overthrown immediately, if they can even get it to pass....and that is highly unlikely. Heck, the odds that they will get the 270,000 more signatures they need to even put it on the ballot are very very slim.

    This was posted on my childfree board, and even a couple in Washington who were already married said they would proudly divorce if this bill passed in order to help the cause.

    Edit: The point they are trying to make is that the fundie argument that gay marriage is an invalid concept because the couples cannot procreate is absurd. I agree wholeheartedly. Is this the best tactic they could have used? Certainly not. But it's nice to see something being done that will raise some eyebrows, and bring more attention to the issue. It's already doing its job, people are talking about it EVERYWHERE.

    Thank you Wolf_Q!

  5. #5
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    Posting after myself with more information...

    Here's a letter from the WDMA regarding concerns about this bill backfiring...

    We feel that the risk of backfire is very small. That could require that the initiative gets onto the ballot, is passed by the voters and is not struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Such a chain of events is extremely unlikely.

    If I-957 gets passed, it will almost certainly be rejected by the courts. That would require that the courts reject the premise that marriage exists for the purpose of procreation and either invalidate the laws based on that premise or force the Legislature to change those
    laws.

    Assuming we get enough signatures to put I-957 to a public vote, the most likely scenario is that the initiative will fail by a very large margin. We can then hold up the vote as a referendum on the premise that marriage exists for the purpose of procreation and thereby goad the Legislature into changing the laws based on that premise and in effect order the courts to stop using that premise in future decisions. This will not be as effective as getting I-957 passed -- the court precedent will still exist and could still be used -- but we will still consider it a win.

    Gregory Gadow
    Washington Defense of Marriage Alliance
    http://www.wa-doma.org


    This is what they are responding to:

    The Washington Defense of Marriage Alliance seeks to defend equal marriage in this state by challenging the Washington Supreme Court’s ruling on Andersen v. King County. This decision, given in July 2006, declared that a “legitimate state interest” allows the Legislature to limit marriage to those couples able to have and raise children together. Because of this “legitimate state interest,” it is permissible to bar same-sex couples from legal marriage.

    This ruling is asinine, and I can definitely see why extreme measures are being taken to counter it.

    It could also imply, that the state would have a compelling interest in restricting birth control - if their goal is to promote procreation as one of their "legitimate interests". It may sound far-fetched, but with this ruling in place it opens the door for litigation by the fundy extremists to argue for that very thing.

    Thank you Wolf_Q!

  6. #6
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    Here's a quote from the article posted: ""Our intention is not to actually put this into law," he said. "All we want is to get this on the ballot and cause people to talk about it."...

    "The group's Web site gives another reason: "And at the very least, it should be good fun to see the social conservatives who have long screamed that marriage exists for the sole purpose of procreation be forced to choke on their own rhetoric.""

    It's not meant to go in as a law and the group knew this going forward. It is meant to force people to think before they defend certain points of views with certain ideas.

    I think it's pretty slick personally and I do hope that it causes some fundies to at least think a bit harder.

  7. #7
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    I understand the meaning behind the proposed legislation. And, if it gets people talking, well, publicity is publicity.

  8. #8
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    I don't think that is a law that would ever actually pass, they're just trying to make a point.

  9. #9
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    Even if I were heterosexual, I couldn't procreate, because I'm infertile. So are my sisters. I guess we couldn't get married anyway. Oh well, I'm illegally married by the United Universalist Christian and Gardnerian churches. The law will come around eventually.
    "There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion."

    Lord John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton

  10. #10
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    Our family friends got married at our UU church. Very beautiful ceremony.

    Niño & Eliza



  11. #11
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    It makes me, an infertile Myrtle, just feel like utter crap.

    I am for maintaining marriage for heterosexual couples only, but they should have thought of ALL the implications of proposing this, even if it is meant to be nothing but a conversation piece.
    Doing my part to save BBD's, one dog at a time!

  12. #12
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    My hubby and I have been married for 5 1/2 years now and we have no children. I don't know if we ever will.
    My co-worker and his wife have been married 10 years and do not want kids.
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  13. #13
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    Is this our hard earned tax dollars at work?

    If I-957 gets passed, it will almost certainly be rejected by the courts. That would require that the courts reject the premise that marriage exists for the purpose of procreation and either invalidate the laws based on that premise or force the Legislature to change those

    Special Needs Pets just leave bigger imprints on your heart!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyBogart
    ...The point they are trying to make is that the fundie argument that gay marriage is an invalid concept because the couples cannot procreate is absurd. I agree wholeheartedly. Is this the best tactic they could have used? Certainly not. But it's nice to see something being done that will raise some eyebrows, and bring more attention to the issue. It's already doing its job, people are talking about it EVERYWHERE.
    I agree. A marriage is a marriage whether or not a couple choose to/are able to have children.
    "We give dogs the time we can spare, the space we can spare and the love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made" - M. Facklam

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  15. #15
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    My significant other and I have chosen to remain childless. Personally, I hope this bill makes people think. One of the main reasons I have heard in my struggle to promote gay rights is that marriage should be only between a man and a woman because they bear children. (It's not the only reason but it is a very common one.)

    What right do my SO and I have to marry when others don't? Simply because I was born female and him male?

    To me, my marriage and any marriage should be a celebration of love. It's not about having children or our sex/gender. Still, there are a lot of legal issues that come with marriage. There are many rights married people get that unmarried couples don't, including health benefits and hospital visitation rights. (These benefits, of course, not only include gay couples but unmarried hetersexual couples as well.)
    Proud meowmy of Weezie, Eepie, Grey Girl and Neko...or Weezer Peezer, Eepie Peepie, Grey Grey and Neko the Gecko as they are commonly known!

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