Question about my old dog

[Catlady711]

And I won't be coming back here again. I see human beings die every day, and I know for a fact that dying naturally with comfort measures only (including pain meds if necessary) is much, much, much better than dying under medical care so you all can take your uninformed, much-too-strong opinions and shove them up your a$$es.

I wouldn't want to put a dog through anything I wouldn't go through and if you think that's uncompassionate then you just aren't thinking straight.

I hope, when you all are old and unable to communicate, that somebody sticks you in a nursing home with a feeding tube and turns you every two hours and keeps you alive until you're a hundred - "because it's the right thing to do."

Visit a hospice or a nursing home or the oncology ward of a hospital and talk to beings who can actually communicate their pain verbally, then maybe you will have a feeling what a dog might be going through while you insist on chemotherapy.

I was not talking about ventelators OR feeding tubes OR even chemotherapy! Find me one place in my post where I mentioned either of them??

What I said was viable options, which is doing everything reasonable, not everyone can afford chemo for their dog, not every dog is a good canidate for chemo, and not all people want to put the dog through that, however there are other things people CAN do as far as reasonable treatment from pain meds to antibiotics to control secondary infections.

My post was not waiting to seek a vets diagnosis in the first place because you're afraid. I can see where you obviously missed the point of my post (as you obviously waited 10 years for a surgery for yourself). Obviously in your 'hundreds of times' in your career you must have never encountered someone who is now in organ failure because they never were diagnosed early enough for something that was curable when caught early???

You also totally missed my comments on euthanasia, which is TOTALLY different than ventelators or feeding tubes. Euthanasia is an option people have with their pets to spare them the pain you've obviously witnessed in people. That was why your previous vet suggested it for the other dog.

I should have guessed you were in the human medical field, some of our WORST clients are human nurses, they think just because they know something about people diseases and treatments that they know sooo much about animal diseases and treatments, WRONG. Most (not all) of our clients that are human nurses tend to wait the longest, try more quack home remedies, and try to tell the VET how to do his job. You think vets are pushy and arrogant, well, who has the degree in animal medicine, the vet or the human nurse???? And BTW most vets don't take too kindly to being told how to do their job from someone without a degree in veterinary medicine!!

So if I'm uncompassionate because I hate to see animals suffer for human ignorance and stubborness then fine. And if you don't want your dog to go through anything you wouldn't go through, you must really like pain and suffering yourself, you did wait 10 years for a surgery (I'm wondering if your husband was having a mild heart attack if you'd go on a message board seeking advice rather than going to the hospital?). You know, you do at least have to go to the vet to get pain meds for this 'supposed dying naturally' thing right?? Maybe someday YOU'LL have a broken leg and don't get taken to the dr. until a week later. Maybe someday YOU'LL have horrible diarrhea and vomiting and someone just feeds you some more cuz you must be hungry for not keeping your dinner down. Maybe someday YOU'LL have out of control diabetes for 6 months before someone takes you to the dr. and find out that now instead of diabetes you have kidney failure from waiting too long!

Sorry you can't handle the truth.

[Catlady711]

Also, when it comes to food you can’t always trust your vet. They get promotions from certain companies and they push certain foods and products.

I'm not sure about other vets, but where I work we don't get any promotional stuff, and we only carry one food Science Diet and only the prescription formula's not the regular versions people can buy in the pet stores. Our job is to help the animals medical problems, not be in competition with a pet food store. Although I know of other vets in our area that do carry many foods, and push highly for people buying it from them rather than the pet store.

Personally I've fed both Iams and Science Diet and my cats have shiney coats and are in great condition. Dusty just turned 16 last month.

Regardless of whether it's Iams, Science Diet, Purina One, Nutro Max, Chicken Soup, or Eukanuba, or other premium foods, we can always tell when one of our patients is on a good food, or a bad food by the animal's condition and hair coat before clients even tell us what they're feeding. Our standpoint at work is that if the animal is a proper weight, has a slick, shiney hair coat without alot of dandruf, has plenty of energy, and is not having any other health problems, then whatever food they are on is the one for them.

[dragondawg]

Wow, you are probably the rudest person I have encountered on PT in all the years I have been a member.

Thank you for the honor! But shall we talk about rude? Let's start with this...

Look on the bag, if the food uses corn or byproducts it's a bad food.

Reading the ingredients in order off the label of my Propet dog food: Lamb meal, brewers rice, ground yellow corn, chicken, corn gluten meal, chicken fat etc etc etc.

Well Miss Congeniality, you just said that I feed my dogs BAD food. Now either I feed my dogs BAD food because I'm either stoopid, or I mustn't give a damn about my dogs. So which insult is it? Now what were you saying about rude? Eh don't worry about it. In another thread I'm called crazy because to me my dogs look healthy. In fact they are healthy despite feeding them BAD food. My poor dogs, if only I fed them GOOD dog food they would have less health problems than none.

corn is only a filler

Corn is deficient in two and only two essential amino acids: lysine and tryptophan. Outside of that , Corn is up to 18% in protein in content depending on variety. Not quite the definition of a filler.

First of all, my screen name is MY peanuts and my name is Diana.

And last of all my screen name is dragondawg. I also tend to be a very poor speeler, and could care less about protocol.

[My Peanuts]

I really think you need to take a step back and maybe take some anger management classes. I have NEVER had a problem with people on this board and I don't know if it's the lack of communication due to text or what, but what I was saying was in no way rude. I was trying to educate farmgirl about foods the EXACT same way multiple people did for me when I joined this board. I'm not calling you a bad pet owner, you are way out of line with all of this and your anger is quite funny since nothing I said was rude or with malice. Education, dear, that's all it was. I'm not responding to this thread anymore because it's obvious that all you want to do it fight and my words were meant to help.

It’s seems that you like the food you are feeding your dog. Great, wonderful! I don’t remember EVER addressing what YOU were feeding your dog. Maybe if I had you could have responded to me with a rational response. I was trying to give FARMGIRL helpful advice. You really need to back off. I was in no way out of line and you completely flew off the handle.

[Vela]

You are right Diana, and don't bother to waste any more of your time on that. Sometimes it's just best to ignore people like that, although it can be hard. You didn't say anything wrong, and neither did anyone else, in regards to trying different foods, etc. Some people take anything anyone says as a knock against them, maybe it's their own insecurities or a complex about having to always be right, who knows, but don't even worry about it, you didn't do or say anything out of line at all. You passed on some great advice and hopefully others will find it interesting as well and do more research for themselves about the best food for themselves and their dogs. Thanks for trying to help share good information.

[My Peanuts]

You are right Diana, and don't bother to waste any more of your time on that. Sometimes it's just best to ignore people like that, although it can be hard. You didn't say anything wrong, and neither did anyone else, in regards to trying different foods, etc. Some people take anything anyone says as a knock against them, maybe it's their own insecurities or a complex about having to always be right, who knows, but don't even worry about it, you didn't do or say anything out of line at all. You passed on some great advice and hopefully others will find it interesting as well and do more research for themselves about the best food for themselves and their dogs. Thanks for trying to help share good information.

Thank you so much. I felt like I was going crazy. I'll take your advice and this is my final reply to this thread

[CelticDreamer]

Hiya Farmgirl,
I just joined this pet forum tonight so I am a newbie here but nice to meet ya....
In response to your question about your senior dog id have them for sure checked at the vets & have some blood work done to see what perhaps might be the problem... I myself have a senior dog she is 12 years old and has had problems with weight loss etc in her back legs and all. I took her to the vets yesterday for a check up as this had really concerned me along with her loss of appetite... Her blood work confirmed that she has a bad urinary tract infection, which she apparently has had for some time without showing any symptoms of really being in ill health other than the weight loss and the loss of appetite... They believe she has had this for a few months perhaps and the infection backed up to her liver and has caused some damage...So they prescribed antibiotics twice daily in the hopes this will help some... She also had to have some culture test done I believe is what they called it to see what other damage perhaps she might have.... All this medical terminology is a bit much to take in sometimes with its different names etc.... I am not saying your dog has the same as mine I hope they do not but I would for sure recommend taking them to be checked if nothing else but peace of mine for yourself....

Sine this past December until the end of August my dog has lost 25 lb's she was in the 60 lb range before and was considered over weight but now were dealing with under weight issues.. She is a Shepard /Husky mix I believe not 100 % sure, as she was a rescue dog.....

I wish you luck with yours and hope you have many more tomorrows with them..... Let me know how things go when you do take them to the vets.....

My biggest problem now is getting my dog to take the antibiotics were having major issues with that and no kind of food has worked so far in getting her to take them so I'm at this point very stressed out not knowing what else I can do to get her to take them.... :-( I hate to see them sick like this just breaks my heart.....

~Celtic Dreamer~

[sabies]

I have a 14 year old finicky eater myself. For most of her life she ate dry kibble (Wysong) and would eat well enough to maintain her weight, but always seemed to "hold out" for something better to appear in her dish. This year she developed kidney disease and I can no longer allow her to regulate her own feeding, so I now prepare fresh people food for her.

It has turned out to not be that difficult and certainly worth the extra effort to me. I am not a chef nor do I eat meat so I did have to ask a lot of basic questions to friends. My vet gave me a special recipe for kidney (low protein, low phosphorous) but there are recipes all over the internet and here at pet talk. Unless there is a condition you find out about that requires a special diet, I bet adding some ground beef or chicken to your dog's dish would be too enticing to pass up. You mentioned the dog is use to people food, I'm willing to bet the best kibble in the world does not compare in taste. Of course I agree that table scraps are not a good idea but plain meat, certain vegetables, and plain rice are good for dogs (the kibble is made from something after all!). Maybe some of what you prepare for yourself can be left aside and left plain for the dog?

Mixing kibble with broth, as previously mentioned, is a good idea (didn't work with my dog). Mixing kibble with whatever food works makes preparation easier for you and tastier for the dog. Cottage cheese is good for doggy digestion and Sadie loved it (it's high in phosphorous and now off the list for her). Raw or hard boiled eggs are great for the coat (your preference on which preparation you think is healthier). There are lists online of what foods to avoid because some fruits and vegetables are not for dogs! Sorry I don't have any links.

Dogs do get more finicky as they get older so hopefully nothing is actually wrong with the dog. I agree that a vet check asap is best, but I also think it is healthy to question the vet, do your own research, and seek second opinions as you feel necessary. It works best if you find a vet you feel you can work comfortably with since you both have the same goal!

Celtic Dreamer - have you tried pills in cream cheese? How about the manual method of open snout and place on tongue? Fortunately my Sadie seems to like the cream cheese but she does sometimes need help getting it into her mouth but after that she actually swallows it herself cause deep down she knows she actually likes it. (Sadie is on 7 vitamins and supplements a day so this is quite a familiar routine!)

Best of luck to all of us with senior dogs, and thank you Farmgirl for taking in one already in his senior years. PS Sadie says 10 yrs is a youngster.

[CelticDreamer]

Sabies,
I have tried just about everything I can think of from Peanut butter to meatballs you name it I've done it... I was so stressed out this morning about it all and could'nt take much more myself as I hate to see them sick and hate to be the mean person in all of this and force her to take her meds.. But she needs them in order to feel better... I called the Vets and went today to pick up a pill shooter like they use at the vets so far that has worked alot better and she has eaten about 3 little nibbles of food today... Which her 3 little nibbles has consisted of low salt ham from the deli and sliced Chicken... She used to love Science diet both canned and dry but she's lost her taste for that which I can live with just as long as she eats something & can drink plenty of fluid... I'm a much happier pet Mommy tonight knowing today's been a better day even if it's just baby steps she has taken......

Thank's for your post & your concern.... :-) I hope you have a great week-end in whatever it is that you do...

~Celtic Dreamer~

[dragondawg]

I really think you need to take a step back and maybe take some anger management classes. I have NEVER had a problem with people on this board and I don't know if it's the lack of communication due to text or what, but what I was saying was in no way rude. I was trying to educate farmgirl about foods the EXACT same way multiple people did for me when I joined this board. I'm not calling you a bad pet owner, you are way out of line with all of this and your anger is quite funny since nothing I said was rude or with malice. Education, dear, that's all it was. I'm not responding to this thread anymore because it's obvious that all you want to do it fight and my words were meant to help.

It’s seems that you like the food you are feeding your dog. Great, wonderful! I don’t remember EVER addressing what YOU were feeding your dog. Maybe if I had you could have responded to me with a rational response. I was trying to give FARMGIRL helpful advice. You really need to back off. I was in no way out of line and you completely flew off the handle.

Angry? It's extremely difficult to stop laughing at your ignorance currently.

I don’t remember EVER addressing what YOU were feeding your dog.

Do you ever bother to think before you post?

Look on the bag, if the food uses corn or byproducts it's a bad food.

You did address what I feed my dog, and probably quite a few others on the forum. Oh but you are here to educate us poor ignorant posters about the evil of corn, a food that civilizations have been build on. LOL

Since you seem reduced to personal insults to support your position let's try again... Please provide scientific citations (e.g. journal articles) that indicate under controlled studies that the inclusion of corn into a dog's diet is BAD. If you can not then one must conclude your so called advice lacks all credible foundation. Right?

[sabies]

Celtic Dreamer I hope the pill shooter keeps working. Don't feel mean if you force her to take her meds, that's love! You know it would be worse if she didn't take them. I wonder if it would be any easier if we could reason with our dogs but I know my grandfather ate what he wanted no matter what I said or how often (he was a diabetic).

[dragondawg]

Sine this past December until the end of August my dog has lost 25 lb's she was in the 60 lb range before and was considered over weight but now were dealing with under weight issues.. She is a Shepard /Husky mix I believe not 100 % sure, as she was a rescue dog.....

I wish you luck with yours and hope you have many more tomorrows with them..... Let me know how things go when you do take them to the vets.....

My biggest problem now is getting my dog to take the antibiotics were having major issues with that and no kind of food has worked so far in getting her to take them so I'm at this point very stressed out not knowing what else I can do to get her to take them.... :-( I hate to see them sick like this just breaks my heart.....

~Celtic Dreamer~

Celtic,

You indicate your dog has arthritis. Is it currently on any NSAIDs such as Rimadyl? This class of drugs used to treat arthritis is capable of causing liver problems in dogs sometimes immediately, and sometimes delayed.

The reason your dog is not eating is that liver problems are frequently accompanied with nausea or at least a feeling of nausea. I found out with my prior dog that nausea and/or a temperature from a bacterial infection will make them spit out pills wrapped in melted cheese or peanut butter. Nothing will work. When you get to this stage the best course of action is to have the Vet give the antibiotics IV or IM at their office. It might involve leaving the dog at the Vet's office for a day so that they can drip a combination of antibiotics IV. Also ask your Vet if Zofran IV or IM might not help get the dog over the nausea feeling so that it will start accepting both medication in the form of pills, and a high quality but low protein diet such as Hill's c/d, i/d. Zofran is very expensive but also very effective in relieving nausea. If the IV dose of Zofran gets the dog eating again, where you can give pills again, then you can follow up with Zofran in a pill form for a couple of days. Usually a 8-12 mg dose for a large dog controls nausea well. Three years ago 6 such doses was about $300. Again very expensive, very effective.

After the dog starts to eat and regain its strength, you might want to consider a full body cavity ultrasound just to make sure other things aren't going on.

[CelticDreamer]

Hiya Dragondawg,
Thanks so much for your post and your concerns on "Mocha"... Yesterday was a much better day for us she went from eating nothing in 2 days to 4 small meals which in total equaled about a cup and a half of various kinds of foods anything to get her to try & eat something.... Today however has not proved to be so good at all.. The medications been easier to administer to her but her eatings been rather poor and she's only had a few small nibbles...

The vet right now has her on 10 mg of Pepcid A/c 30 minutes prior to eating.... Plus 500 mg of Cephelaxin Antibiotics twice daily... Other than that she's not on any other kind of medication just her monthly heartworm meds.... When she was in on Wednesday to be checked out they did blood work & also a culture scan I believe is what they called it to see if perhaps she has more than just a Urinary tract infection... The results are not in yet on the culture scan but should be the 1 st part of this week... She's been drinking the normal amount of water and is acting her normal self which has always been sleeping alot... She goes outside and wanders around my garden for a short period of time but then it's back in to take it easy... She is however 12 years old so I'm not expecting her to be Superdog... Id just like to know she was eating a little more than what she is... If by Monday she is not eating better she will be back at the vets for a few days for some iv treatment... The vet she goes to is awesome I just love them all very much and they check on her condition daily which is always nice... They might be a bit on the pricy side but id rather pay more and have good service and see she has the best care than to see her health issues not looked at like they should....

I'm hoping tomorrow will be a better day for her she's been in such good health for the most part of her life up until now... She was a rescue dog that came from a bad situation in her early years of life... She's my Mom's dog pretty much but at present my Mom's on vacation for a few week's in Ireland so I'm the one left to take care of her medical need's... We all love her though and could'nt imagine life without her....

~Have a great week-end my friend~

~CelticDreamer~

[Corinna]

Farmgirl I hope you are still at least looking here .Sorry for some of the comments made here every one here is Very careing about animals and we some times get so involved in our ways . We forget that Not evey diet works for every animal.
I some times feel like I'm running an old folks home for critters. I have an 18 year old rabbit and cat., a 12year old siamese cat a 9yr old Newfoundland/golden/ret.,a 7 year old Newfy/chow a 5 year old cat then the kid (a 1 year old boxer) each has a different diet and feeding schedule.
Most all of my animals have died of old age. I too a year anda half ago had to have my Springer (9years old) put down due to cancer it was very hard he was also my alert dog for my diabetes. so i understand your pain.
Please do at least lurk around and find out we are a great place to learn a lot of useful info, we all have strong opinions and don't all agree on any thing except we all love animals. Thats the most important thing.
A lot of new comers have opinions and haven't known the members long enough to know how to respond here with out causing disagreements.
We all would love to know how the old guy is doing ? and Love to see photos of him. Bless you for taking an old guy and letting him have a great careing home in his golden years and confustion of losing his home of a long time.

[CelticDreamer]

~Wiping tears from eyes cuz my baby went to the Rainbow Bridge this past week~