behavior changes

[jackiesdaisy1935]

Harley is so cute, he looks full of mischief.
I can't wait to see the photos of Reece.
You have a wonderful family there. I'm sure it will all work out!

[Angels3]

Aly, I know how you must feel...that you've tried so hard but the dog-cat hostility continues. I'd feel tearful, too, because I'd want so much for my pets to live in peace (well, most of the time).
I know it may be difficult but can you ACT as if you are firmly in charge no matter what happens, so it's clear to Harley that you are in charge...not him.
Sorry for sending you to an article again but this one has a couple of replies to someone who had exactly the same problem as you...including the strategies not working immediately. To control the situation of 'training' 2 animals at once...the dog & the cat...the animal behaviourist says that 2 people are needed for the training.
So can you get a friend to help you? Maybe your vet could suggest a person who'd be willing to carry out the training with you & your pets. For this info, go to: http://www.canismajor.com/dog/dogscats.html
Hope it helps.

[This message has been edited by Angels3 (edited March 26, 2001).]

[ownerof3dogs]

Originally posted by aly:
Daisy's Mom: I'll try the pennis in a milk jug.

That has got the be the funniest spelling mistake on record. The second I saw it I bursted out laughing I got a very funny picture in my head

[aly]

hahaha, oh my gosh, now I'm a lunatic crying and laughing at the same time. HAHA! I'm not going to let Harley see my typo or he'll start crossing his legs when I'm around. Thanks for making me laugh. I hadn't even noticed that crazy typo. I am also getting funny mental images.

Angels3: My sister lives near me so I'll have her come over frequently for awhile so we can work on the training. Thanks for the advice.

I also wanted to tell everyone thanks. I've really enjoyed reading about everyone's dogs and really think these boards are full of nice, caring people. Thanks again

[aly]

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I pressed Clear Fields instead of Submit. AHH!!!! I'll try to remember what all I just wrote, grrrrrr...

I feel a bit better after reading websites with people going through the same situation as me. It helps me realize that I need to keep on working with Harley and it will get better even though it looks like it won't.

Reece has been feeling more confident every day. I have been working so hard on his seperation anixety and its finally showing. I can actually leave now without him having a fit and being a newvous wreck for hours on end. He seems to think he is royalty now and the only place suitable for sleeping is on my pillow. This usually leaves my head on Shiloh, a stuffed animal or dog toy. (Dog toys always wind up in my bed so I gave up trying to keep them out). Reece has also taken up prancing instead of walking like us common folk. He even tried to refuse to walk down the stairs today but I told him if I carried him down, he'd have to carry me back up. I guess he didn't want to make that deal.

Have you guys ever heard of dogs not only peeing but also pooping to mark territory? I'm not sure but I think Harley does this. He only poops where he can smell another dog. He even lifts a leg! Its not the exact same position as peeing though. He manuevers around so his butt is facing the tree or whatever he's going to the bathroom on. Its hard to explain the position. Even the few times he had accidents in the house, he pooped on the wall and on the windowsill. I just thought this was funny.

[AdoreMyDogs]

Aly,

I don't have any words of advise unfortunately but I just wanted to add a comment about the pooping in funny places thing that you said. It's so funny that Harley pooped on the window sill, although I bet you didn't think it was that funny since you had to clean it up That brought back memories of my old yellow lab, Beener, who went to the bridge over a year ago. Beener also used to back up into things to poop, just like a ferret does. It was so strange, and funny. He'd back up into trees, along fences, ect. One day I took him and my dog Graham to the dog park and Beener actually began to back up onto a park bench! He took a dump on that park bench....a place where people like to sit down and relax It surprised me and sent me laughing hysterically I pushed the pile off the bench, and into a poop bag when I was through laughing Of all of the places to poop in that big dog park, for some reason Beener thought it'd be funny to poop on the park bench.

I will never again look at a park bench and expect it to be clean again

[Pam]

Leslie I will never look at a park bench in quite the same way any more!!!

[Genia]

Poop on a park bench? On a window sill? These are definitely new ones! Aly, I think it is so wonderful that you are working so hard with your baby no matter what he does.

"Each year up to 6 million dogs are euthanized, not because they are sick or old but because do they do bad things. If you have a dog that misbehaves, one reason may be because you treat him too much like a member of the family. That is, he should not have equal rights. All humans in the house should reign over a dog. When it comes to dogs, people should have the power. If your dog misbehaves, do not look at, talk to, feed or play with him. Startle him with a loud noise so he stops what he's doing. Then redirect his behavior. Be sure to praise him often when he does the right thing. He'll learn that a good dog is a happier dog. "

(This is from Yahoo dog tips.) You are proof that with a lot of work and a lot of love a solution can be found with any pet.

[aly]

Genia - Thanks for the support It really helps me because I'm not getting a lot of support elsewhere. My friends and family think I have taken on too much and its more than I can handle. My feeling is that I have three rescued pets who I love to death and I will fight for them with all I have. They do wear me out, but it is so worth it. They bring so much unconditional love and joy in my life. I don't know what I'd do without them. I'll be the first to admit Harley is a big brat, but I love him for it. Everytime I start to feel like no one is on my side, I just have to come to this board and see all the wonderful replies. I'm glad to be able to talk to other people who share my same views that our dogs mean the world to us. I know someday I will be able to let all 3 of my babies play together without worry that Harley will rip Shiloh's head off. I think I'm going to get him another play day appointment to work off more of his energy.

[aly]

AdoreMyDogs - glad to know I'm not the only one who's had a weird pooper, hehe. It is a strange site to come home to doggy mess on the window sill or dripping down the wall (ew!).

One time I had Harley on a tennis court and he backed up against the fence and pooped through the holes.. hehe at least I didn't have to clean it off the court.

[aly]

I really wish I was posting this with better news but the situation with Harley has gotten worse. I still have been keeping Harley and Shiloh seperated, even when I'm at home. He can't be around her AT ALL or he'll go nuts. I work with them while he's on a leash near her but he can't concentrate on anything else except getting to her. Even if I'm taking him out for a walk, which he loves, he'll frantically search for her while we walk to the front door, not even caring about the walk. I still thought this could be fixable though and I didn't want to give up.

I've had a dog behaviorist and 2 trainers come work with me on this also. They all said I was doing the right techniques but after working with Harley for short times, each one told me it would be best to find either Shiloh or Harley a new home. I told them that there was no chance of that happening, and that I'd figure out a way so they could get along.

Then today I was away for a few hours at the Humane Society. My sister and her roommate were over watching my animals. I got a frantic call on my cell phone from my sister that Harley had hurt Shiloh. I ran home and she told me that Harley slipped out the door of the room he was in and ran directly for Shiloh. She was laying on her back and he pounced on her, landing on her stomach. She jumped up and ran to the kitchen table (a place she never goes but she was frantic). He pulled her off by her tail and had his jaws around her body. My sister had to pry his mouth open and get the cat. My sister, her roommate, and I were all crying and frantic so a neighbor drove us to the vet. Shiloh is fine, just very shook up.

This incident has made me think a lot. I sit here and claim to care only about the well being of my animals, yet I keep them in this stressful situation. I really want Harley to be able to run around freely and not be restricted to certain areas of the house constantly. I want Shiloh to be able to eat and drink without having to keep her eyes looking up to check for dogs. I also want her to run and play without having the fear of being attacked. I think I'm doing mental damage to them keeping them like this. Harley has had so much trauma in his life that I really want to do what's best for him. I also want to do what's best for Shiloh. I am torn on what is best for them at this point. I know what's best for Shiloh but its Harley that is a difficult situation. When I really think about it from his point of view, it seems the only responsible thing I could do is find him a better home where he can be cared for and loved. I love him to death and have never given up a pet for any reason so this is the hardest thing I've ever had to think about. But the alternative is both Harley being frusterated and stressed and Shiloh being fearful, stressed, and perhaps hurt badly.

Someone please tell me what you think. I know I said I was going to make it work, but the situation has been getting worse instead of better. I'm not giving up on him, I'm just trying to think what's best for him. Am I right or wrong or what should I do?

[RachelJ]

My dear, dear Aly, I think you are right. This situation has weighed on my mind because I know how hard you have been trying to find the solution. I wish I could take the little goofball myself, I have learned to love him through you, but husband has never shown any signs of allowing me any more animals. You have done everything humanly possible, but Harley's past and his genes have made him obsessed with the cat. Somehow he has tranferred any threat to what he feel is his happy home to poor, poor Shiloh, who doesn't deserve any of it. Maybe he is jealous of the fact that Shiloh sleeps with you. Who knows. I for one would feel you were doing the best for each of your animals by rehoming Harley. You yourself have specified the reasons and I think you are right on target. I know how much you will grieve this. The expression is hackneyed but it says it all....I feel your pain.

[Karen]

Please, please aly, read the story of Mancha, http://PetoftheDay.com/archive/1999/January/31.html . It is long, and tragic (but ends happily) and in it is a dog Nakoo, who reminds me of Harley, in different circumstances.

[aly]

Rachel, thanks for all your advice and your email. The support I've received on these boards has really helped me out. I've been moping around here all night crying because I couldn't make it work out between Harley and Shiloh. I hope I can find a very loving person to take Harley in. He deserves all the love in the world. I wish I could be the one giving it to him.

Karen, I read about Nakoo and Mancha. What a heart breaking but inspiring story. The woman who wrote that must be such a wonderful, caring person. I'd die if Shiloh was in as bad shape as Mancha was.

I guess sometimes you can't predict things. Harley seemed perfectly fine with the cat for awhile. I guess his "honeymoon" period after I adopted him lasted longer than most dogs. There was a time when Harley, Shiloh and I could all sleep in the same bed. I don't know how I'm going to find someone who is willing to do the extra bit of training for Harley since he's so dominant. He's not a bad dog at all, he just needs boundaries set. He plays so wonderfully with Reece, I think he'd make a really good second dog. I guess I will start asking around the humane society and try to spread the word about Harley. I'm going to be picky where he goes though because I don't want him to end up homeless or at a shelter ever again.

Thanks again everyone. Your support really has helped me. Its hard to be strong during such a heart breaking time.

[Logan]

I am thinking of you, Aly. I know you have a heart of gold. It sounds like you have done everything correctly. Just sometimes, they can't get along. I suffer daily with two cats that can't seem to get along, but there has been no blood, and for the first time, I actually left all four animals sleeping in the same room last night when I went to bed. This was a first! Butter was asleep in a chair, and he saw Mimi lie down on the floor about 5 feet away from him. Both dogs were there too. I know I have a lot to be grateful for.
I think you should be proud and satisfied that you have done everything possible to make it work.
Please keep us posted on your progress in placing Harley.
Logan