A problem at the dog playgroup

[C.C.'s Mom]

I have a 6 month old Golden Retriever who was always the clown of the dog playground where we go twice a day. The other (adult) dogs loved her and they played nicely together. Last week it suddenly changed. One of the dogs (male) started to be posessive towards her, not allowing other dogs to play. It resulted in my dog being on her back and the other dogs biting and pulling. Today it was much worst and my dog was crying and trying to get to me, but the other dogs pulled, started to bite in her legs and simply ignored the fact that she did lay on her back and surrendered (she never has any dominance problems and is always on her back when a bigger dog comes running towards her). It was terrible, for me to see my dog in such fear as for the other dog owners who had no idea what was going on. I'm now wondering what to do. I don't feel so happy about going there again and prefer to go to another field for her to run around. One woman said I should come back daily and have this happen again so that she (my dog) can learn. I just wonder what there was to learn as in my opinion, the other dogs ignored the signs my C.C. gave.

[Stenograsaurus]

Okay, I'm lost also. Just what could your dog possibly have to learn? You dog did absolutely nothing wrong!!! The other dogs there have something to learn and I don't see why your dog should be the guinea pig, so to speak. Perhaps you could speak to this lady again and see what it is she thinks your dog should learn from this.
If there is another place you could take your dog to, do it. Where you take her now just doesn't seem safe anymore for your precious dog. I definitely wouldn't take the chance.

[purrley]

Don't subject your puppy to this again - find another dog park, it's not worth taking a chance that she could be hurt.

[MichelleN]

YOW! What on earth does that woman think your dog could learn from going again?! How to stand up for itself?!! How much better to have a dog that will be submissive if facing a stronger dog than a dog that will bite ANY other dog because of a bad experience!! I also think a new dog park is a good idea. It also sounds like the other dog owners don't have very goos control over their dogs, they shouldn't be letting something like that happen.

I'm sorry that your poor darling should have to go through that. Send her kisses from me and my FRIENDLY labbies!

[C.C.'s Mom]

We tried another dog field yesterday afternoon. I don't normally go there because it's far away and I can't walk there. But what a difference!!! My Cookie was digging a beautiful tunnel, the other dogs came looking and just let her do her important digging. And in play time, Cookie lay on her back and the others just looked and realized she was just a submissive pup. Cookie was soooo happy.

I tried talking to the people at the other field, but they thought they had all the wisdom and that their dogs behaved as dogs should. The dog owner of the one that really hurt my baby, even gave snacks to her dog for knowing 'her place in the dog order'.

Thank you for your advice, so now I know that there isn't a lesson to learn for Cookie. I'm thankful nothing serious happened.

[MichelleN]

Is that a picture of your baby at the bottom of your post? She's beautiful!! I'm sooo glad you've found somewhere where people and their dogs are more friendly.

We had an awful situation where our two Labradors (with us from SPCA one WEEK!) got into a fight with a Staffie. Both his and ours were off leash so legally we have no stand but his dog ripped my poor baby's ear so badly he had to stay at the vet overnight (not cheap either, 15 stiches). He walloped his dog and called him a bad boy (a bit late I thought) and when he came past the next day his comment was "Well, I'm glad to see he's OK, see you around."! He didn't even offer to pay a cent!

[Stenograsaurus]

Originally posted by C.C.'s Mom:
<STRONG>
The dog owner of the one that really hurt my baby, even gave snacks to her dog for knowing 'her place in the dog order'.
</STRONG>

Okay, now I'm sick. This girl should not own a dog!!!!!!

[carrie]

First off - never, ever, ever think that giving treats for knowing status is a viable or productive thing! ( I know you don't, but don't start to question yourself on that!)
Madness and a total misunderstanding of all things canine from that person!!!!! ( If you see her again though, just out of interest, ask her how she heard of that idea, would you? I will bet either a behaviourist***** or a trainer! **** was to say that some are qualified and a great many are not!!!)


On to your actual problem. I am assuming that your little bitch has run with, more or less, the same group of dogs at the puppy creche?

If that is true then it won't matter how submissive she is, I'm afraid, the pack structure has to be realigned as she becomes sexually mature. At six months old she has the potential to become a breeding female. This does not mean she is coming into season, although you should keep an eye out from now on, but that she has the potential to.
The other dogs have treated her as a puppy up until now but she is changing physically as well as hormonally and has to find a place in the pack as an adult rather than a pup.

Remember our domestic dogs retain the puppy characteristics into adulthood, GR's more than many, so although we see a pup other canine pack members see a threat to position. If it is an easy target, such as a submissive little bitch, everybody will get their claim on a higher status as soon as possible. When one starts pack alliances come into call and it seems all gang up on one, unprepared individual.
In wild canids such a submissive animal would probably not survive. We have bred animals to exhibit this characteristic.

Taking her to a new area with new animals will help in the short term, but, eventually the same situation will develop if it is the same dogs all the time.

I suggest you take her out on her own sometimes, to the dog creche less frequently and to as many new areas as possible. You are her pack and she doesn't need to socialise on a daily basis with the dogs at the creche. But she has to fit into a pack she is confronted with every day. In a way, she will have to learn to deal with it and take her place in that pack if she is part of it.
Try to remember that it is a lot of noise, looks horrid but no real damage is done. It really is a natural process and she is coping well by submitting to it, imagine what it would be like if she did stand up for herself and fought for her place!!!!!

[lizbud]

C.C.'s Mom,
Your baby girl is an ABSOLUTE Doll Baby..
I love her pictures and given the chance,
would smother her with kisses...
Although larger breed dogs do retain their
puppy ways longer, at six mos she can go
into season anytime,and other dogs will
treat her differently than say 3-4 mos old.
At this age, she will benefit from spending
more time with you on walks & playtime, by
bonding & accepting you as primary in her
life.(pack leader) There will be plenty of
time for interaction with other older dogs
after she gains some confidence with age
& basic obedience training.
She is sooo Cute!!! I Love her!!!

[Barbiro]

Originally posted by C.C.'s Mom:
<STRONG>The dog owner of the one that really hurt my baby, even gave snacks to her dog for knowing 'her place in the dog order'.</STRONG>

That owner sounds like a total idiot! Some people should NOT have dogs. If she rewards aggressive behavior, next time it might be towards a child and not another dog. Dog-owners that think like that get me so mad!

By the way, that picture is adorable. She is really beautiful. I look forward to seeing more as she grows.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Barbiro ]

[lizbud]

C.C.'s Mom,
Hi, just wanted to see how C.C. was doing.
Digging any more tunnels lately? She's such
a cutie-patootie, I had to come back to take
another look at her picture.Hope all is
going well for you both ...

[jackiesdaisy1935]

I don't have any advice, I just wanted to say your Cookie is just beautiful, what a doll she is, one would like to just give her a hug and a kiss.
Jackie

[C.C.'s Mom]

Hi and Happy New Year!

Yes, Cookie is doing just fine. We're back at the old group again. There has been a big discussion that it was a shame that I was going away with a harmless dog, where other dogs with bad behavior can stay. So, they left in anger and we're asked to come back and things are great again. They play, they run and of course learn how to find their place in the group. But at least there is no more biting and crying involved.

I definately agree that some people should not have dogs. Unfortunately the woman that gives her dogs treats all the time when they don't listen and whenever she feels like it, thinks of herself as the best dog trainer in universe, also having 2 dogs who are on the list here in Germany as fighting dogs and really need someone who knows what she's doing. She doens't come there any longer after her dog got into an argument with another dog and was asked to leave.

We're happy that there's a huge amount of snow now here, so Cookie has no time to do Very Important Digging. She now has other important tasks as to bark at snowman, run after pucks when the kids play ice hockey, go after the snowflakes and simply run around as a incredibly happy dog. Life is great for her.

I would give her more than a thousand kisses a day, if only she didn't have such a bad breath