Politics and religion.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Unions do not negotiate against anyone. I cannot imagine any negotiation that involves against. That defies the definition of "negotiations."

Public sector unions negotiate with the public sector administration - the school board, the mayor - the department of farming - whatever is the administrative body for which they work.

To suggest public sector unions negotiate against or even with the taxpayers is analogous to saying that private sector unions negotiate against - or with the consumer of the goods or services that union is involved with providing.

I have been involved in a few union campaigns. It has never been about money - initially. It is about the supervisors, the fairness with which the employees feel they are being treated.

I don't advocate unions. I have worked "on the other side" my whole career. I have made many speeches, home mailers, etc. about why it is better without a union. And I believe that in most cases. I have managed campaigns to defeat unions in elections and have won more than I lost.

I believe the Employee Free Choice Act is wrong and have written my congresspersons about it.

But why should public sector employees have less rights than private sector?

That is the heart of the issue.

[RICHARD]

I "unioned" for 30 years and it was a CF.

So, by not having any experience in the 'private sector' I humbly will keep my opinions to myself.

------------------


Check it out.

MG wants to fight to the last drop of blood.

Hey, whatever happened to the hack that wanted the "Mother of all Battles?"

And if Hugo Chavez gets overthrown, will Sean Penn and Oliver Stone run down to rescue him?

[Edwina's Secretary]

I "unioned" for 30 years and it was a CF.

So, by not having any experience in the 'private sector' I humbly will keep my opinions to myself.

Two questions....what does "CF" mean? And secondly - I thought you worked for KP? That would be the 'private sector.'

So as not to confuse people - the public sector - means working for a federal, state or local government.

Everything else is the private sector.

[RICHARD]

semantics.

[Edwina's Secretary]

semantics. Okay....up or down - just semantics. Right left - just semantics...Use them interchangably...right?

So what does "CF" mean?

[RICHARD]

Consolidated Freightways.

http://www.answers.com/topic/consolidated-freightways

[cassiesmom]

cystic fibrosis?
cf. = compare (boy, I haven't typed that very often since I got out of school!)
chocolate frosting?


ES, you asked why take away a right other employees have? Is it because the governor thinks collective bargaining rights are not necessary for public sector employees, but the employees themselves do? I can't give you a better answer for that one. Could the federal government use the money they got back from the auto bail-out to help state governments? Would that work?

[cassiesmom]

But why should public sector employees have less rights than private sector?

I don't see it as public sector ee's having less rights; just different rights. That's because my tax dollars pay their salary. They are providing services that keep our society running in an organized fashion - everything from collecting trash to the practice of law in the state's attorney's office. When they agree to work in the public sector, there are certain things they give up in exchange for what they gain.

For example, I did agency work at a local hospital operated by the county health services bureau. They observed the federal holidays like Columbus Day, Veterans' Day and Dr. King's birthday - three additional days off with pay per employee per year. Their health benefit plan (for both employees and retirees) was waaaay more robust than private settings. They had access to purchasing plans for big-ticket items at deep discounts, theater and amusement park tickets, tax-free uniform purchasing (again at deep discounts), and I could go on from there. They were getting cheap prescription drugs long before Wal-Mart came up with their $4 generics. They had preferential hiring that the private sector doesn't get - they hardly ever hired from outside and they paid their existing employees gobs of overtime instead of hiring additional staff.

They could retire far earlier than the private sector. The manager to whom I reported was preparing to retire at 55. She would collect a full pension and go on to work for another 10-12 years in a completely different setting.

So ... in my mind ... public sector employee, you're working for me as a taxpayer. You chose that setting when you accepted the position. You might not realize just how good you have it as opposed to the rest of us. Take it or leave it.

[Edwina's Secretary]

Cassiesmom - I don't disagree. But I can tell you what my brother, who works for the federal government would say - Yes, government employees have many benefits - but the pay is lower. That is the trade off. He could make much more money working in the private sector - but he likes what he does and he likes that it benefits people.

You are paying the wages of every employee. When you buy an automobile you are paying the wages of the workers who make the cars. But a can of beans - you are paying the wages of the people who picked the beans and the people who canned them. When you make a phone call you are paying the wages of people who work for the phone company.

But I said it before and I'll say it again. If the public sector benefits are too high - negotiate with them - reduce them.

But why take away the right other employees have - the right to stand united in their relationship with their employer? They did not give that up - now some folks are trying to take away a right they had when they took the job. For political reasons.

By the way...do you know what "CF" means?

[caseysmom]

Cialis Factory????

[Puckstop31]

I stand by my assertion that PUBLIC employee unions negotiate against the taxpayer. Simply because when the union wins a concession, the taxpayer has to pay for it.

Then there is the fact that unions are HUGE contributors to political campaigns. The statistics say that a vast majority of those union donations go to guys with a "D" after their name. I am SURE that those "negotiations" are on the up and up. As if a governor/legislature/what have you is going to fight hard against what a union wants when the unions money helped to get them elected. What we are seeing now, all around the country, is the long term result of the utter joke that public employee union "negotiations" result in.


Something has to give. I feel for the honest union member. But what are they to do?

Public employee unions need to have different rules. There has to be some kind of a limit to what they can get out of a 'negotiation'. Otherwise, next time the political climate is full of people they helped get elected.....

[sasvermont]

CF = cluster f**k

I don't usually add much to this topic, but I do know what CF means. It was my favorite term while working with lawyers for 30 some years.

[wombat2u2004]

CF = cluster f**k

I don't usually add much to this topic, but I do know what CF means. It was my favorite term while working with lawyers for 30 some years.

HAH !!!! That's still my favourite term when dealing with government. But yeah, I have to agree that lawyers are very CFish....hee hee.

[Puckstop31]

HAH !!!! That's still my favourite term when dealing with government. But yeah, I have to agree that lawyers are very CFish....hee hee.

Think back to your days in the service Wom....


What generally happens when a new Lieutenant tells a Sergeant HOW to do something?



Oh the stories I could share.... But this is a family show. LOL

[wombat2u2004]

What generally happens when a new Lieutenant tells a Sergeant HOW to do something?

Yeah, that's a bit gruesome to discuss here. But it's sort of along the lines of the Sgt ripping off the Lt's arm and beating him to death with it.