Breeding a male red tri BC (Border Collie)

[Doug_FL]

Re: pet overpopulation...
You say that pit bulls are the problem when in the same breath saying that "other mixes like aussies, BCs, goldens, etc, were adopted out much more quickly". Well... of course they were... for every aussie, BC, golden, etc that was adopted out means that a pit bull puppy was passed up. ANY puppy bred, intentionally, unintentionally, responsibly or irresponsibly, is adding to the pet overpopulation... it does not matter what breed it is. If you're going to do it, at least be responsible about it and do it right or don't do it at all.

All puppies from the shelter were adopted fairly fast. The main overpopulation was adult Pit Bulls and Pit Bull mixes. I volunteered at only 1 shelter. Although
the adoption mgr, also said he was keeping an eye out for a BC, at the 2 other shelters in the area. The Human Society and ASPCA Shelter. They had the same
thing going on. Small dogs were very in demand, along with the breeds I have mentioned. As far as the vet goes, yes see would make money doing the tests.
I would adopt a male BC puppy. If she (the vet) thought he was a good candidate, she would give me her findings in writing. If not, I would have to agree to get my dog fixed. Which I would do anyway. If he was not suitable for breeding.

Let me ask this, due to overpopulation, should breeding just be stopped? Are breeders responsible for overpopulation? I don't think so. Pups and kittens are so
cute. So, people buy them. Without any idea, they can be almost as much work as a human baby. They also don't think about the costs. I spend $300, when I
go to the vet. That includes anti-parasite meds. That does not include food or toys, or things he has damaged in the past. Right there is about $500.

[Lady's Human]

Let me ask this, due to overpopulation, should breeding just be stopped? Are breeders responsible for overpopulation? I don't think so. Pups and kittens are so
cute. So, people buy them. Without any idea, they can be almost as much work as a human baby. They also don't think about the costs. I spend $300, when I
go to the vet. That includes anti-parasite meds. That does not include food or toys, or things he has damaged in the past. Right there is about $500.

Puppies and kitties are cute, but they're WORK. Buy a puppy for the cute factor alone, and it's in the paper, on C/L or in a shelter as soon as the people figure out how much work they are, or the landlord won't let them keep them, ad nauseum.

You want one of the pups. What are you going to do with the rest from the litter? Put them on C/L? Advertise in the paper? That's a great way to get homes for the animals.

[snakemama]

No, but due to overpopulation, the average person does not need to be producing pet dogs because "puppies are cute". Ethical breeding is a heavy responsibility, not something to go into because "I want to make cute puppies!". Ethical breeders exist to preserve and improve upon their breed. They put a TON of work, love, and money into their dogs. They study, they learn, they have extensive health testing done on the adults, they get their dogs titled in what the dogs were meant to do. They screen potential families carefully. They offer health guarantees, and have to be prepared to take the dog back at any point during its life. They become a mini-mentor to the people who have their puppies, and they are available to help guide the new owners through the puppy's life.

IRRESPONSIBLE breeders are absolutely a good chunk of the problem. They think "My two dogs are so great, I should make puppies with them!" They sell the puppies on Craigslist or in the newspaper and then lose contact with the new owner, who is now stuck with a puppy they may or may not be able to handle. THOSE are the dogs that get dumped at the shelter...when I worked in a pet supply store I talked to people EVERY SINGLE DAY who ad bought cute puppies they were now overwhelmed with, and I'd say "Talk to your breeder".....and would get a blank look... "Oh, we got this puppy in the newspaper, we don't still have their number." .....and a thousand similar stories.

I will reiterate everything I said in my last post. If you are serious about it, FIND A MENTOR in the breed...have them take you to shows and herding trials, and learn all you can. If you still want to breed once you have spent that time learning and studying, talk to your mentor about it.

Also - google "Border Collie Rescue Florida" ....there are a LOT to choose from.

[Alysser]

Reputable Breeders are NOT responsible for overpopulation, people that "breed for fun", and other stupid reasons are. Anyone that is not bettering the breed has absolutely no reason to be breeding period. Your children don't need to see the miracle of birth, you don't need a ton of puppies running around because it's cute, etc. Don't make these puppies someone else's problem. You will have plenty of people abandoning these dogs because they will most likely have some health issues, be too hyper, and billion other excuses. As much as you say you won't be adding to the population problem you will be. To every family you give a dog to, they COULD have adopted that sad adult pit in the shelter that REALLY needed that home. There's no excuse for breeding a dog that has no business being bred, period.

[Jessika]

Reputable Breeders are NOT responsible for overpopulation, people that "breed for fun", and other stupid reasons are. Anyone that is not bettering the breed has absolutely no reason to be breeding period. Your children don't need to see the miracle of birth, you don't need a ton of puppies running around because it's cute, etc. Don't make these puppies someone else's problem. You will have plenty of people abandoning these dogs because they will most likely have some health issues, be too hyper, and billion other excuses. As much as you say you won't be adding to the population problem you will be. To every family you give a dog to, they COULD have adopted that sad adult pit in the shelter that REALLY needed that home. There's no excuse for breeding a dog that has no business being bred, period.

This pretty much sums up my feelings about breeding.

No, I don't think *all* breeding should be stopped. But I do think that there is WAY too much irresponsible breeding going on.

If you are serious about breeding, contact some border collie breeders and get a mentor. However, I do not think your "It is my money and I should be able
to get what I want" or "this would just be for fun" attitude is an appropriate attitude to have when it comes to this topic... or ANY topic, really. Money should not be the driving factor... the driving factor should be wanting to improve the breed and its gene pool.

And it's not just about getting proper health clearances, either... your dog should be shown in the appropriate avenues and titled when appropriate to ensure that it IS a good quality stock for the breed and should actually be bred. It is not "for fun"...

Again... please think long and hard about this. Look up the definition of a backyard breeder.

[Doug_FL]

I looked up Back Yard Breeder. I don't see it pertaining to me or what my plans are. I have only spoken to my vet once about this.
I have going to that practice for 10 years. The comments I have gotten seem to suggest, only a very few people have the right to
breed dogs. And if I breed mine, it will force a Pit Bull to remain in a shelter. The reality is there are too many Pit Bulls, not too many
BCs. People are scared of that breed, that is why there are so many in shelter. I would not even have one. The building where I live
does not allow them. A Border Collie or Aussie was not a problem. Pits can be unpredictable. They can cause a problem with home
owners insurance as well.

If I can get a male puppy that looks as good as the first three photos, I will look into breeding him. The last two photos are of the dog I
have now. He turned out to be healthy and very much within breed standards. I wish I could have breed him. But, he had to be fixed,
due to county law where I got him. It was a county animal control & shelter, in the Tampa St Pete area.

[Lady's Human]

Educate yourself.

Pitties are fine dogs as long as they're raised correctly.

Your ignorance (on many issues) is palpable.

[Alysser]

I looked up Back Yard Breeder. I don't see it pertaining to me or what my plans are. I have only spoken to my vet once about this.
I have going to that practice for 10 years. The comments I have gotten seem to suggest, only a very few people have the right to
breed dogs. And if I breed mine, it will force a Pit Bull to remain in a shelter. The reality is there are too many Pit Bulls, not too many
BCs. People are scared of that breed, that is why there are so many in shelter. I would not even have one. The building where I live
does not allow them. A Border Collie or Aussie was not a problem. Pits can be unpredictable. They can cause a problem with home
owners insurance as well.

Your ignorance about Pitbulls alone is why you SHOULDN'T be breeding. I don't even get why you started this thread, since you know everything already. I was at a shelter yesterday and there were 4 pitbulls and 4 border collies in the shelter...so an equal number. But no, you're not going to be adding to the issue at all.