Joey "attacked" Dora... Advice needed!

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Long story short, late this afternoon, Joey and Dora were in my bedroom with me, watching tv. They were finally running around after each other for a few minutes, so I thought that was great. ( I am not so sure Joey was playing looking back, he might have just been scared and running around in fear, but if so, I did not think that at the time)

They took a break.. Joey sat on my right foot, Dora on my left. Next thing I know, Dora leans up with both paws wanting me to pick her up.. Joey lunges across onto her, and gets ahold of the side of her neck. He was growling and she was yelping. He even did the jerk motion, like they do with stuffies.

I reached down and grabbed Dora, but Joey kept holding on. I had to pop his nose to get him to let go of her. As soon as he let go, he hit his back/side in submission, because he knew I was upset. I immediately checked her for wounds, but she did not have any. It did not break the skin.

I took Joey and put him in his playpen. I did not know what to do.

Thankfully she is ok, and not hurt. Just scared of him now.

Is this a normal thing, since he did not break skin.. Something to be concerned over? I am scared to even let him out with her now...

Also wanted to add: I took Joey on a 30 minute walk tonight alone, so he could get tired before bed. He used the potty several times outside, but as soon as I brought him inside, he pooped in 3 different spots... the last time right in front of me. He NEVER does that, esp. not in front of me! Is this a showing of jealousy? He likes other dogs, and EVERY PERSON HE MEETS! Why would he love other dogs, but not like Dora?

Ahhhhh. Melissa told me two dogs were a completely different ballgame. She was right.

Thank you for listening! Kt and pups

[Pam]

Oh my, I am so sorry to read this. I can imagine how frightened you were. I have no advice as I have never run into this personally myself but I am sure many of our knowledgeable folks on the board will offer some suggestions. It does sound to me that, if Joey is pooping and peeing inappropriately now, he is trying to show his dominence (i.e., I was here first and this is my house). Of course I could be totally wrong. Please do give them both cuddle from me.

[chocolatepuppy]

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help either. But here goes. I still have to watch Layla and Jake (Lacey's not much problem) Anything involving food or toys. Their size difference (70lbs/20lbs) makes it nerve wracking. But I never had a real issue with what appears to be jealously or perhaps Joey felt he needed to protect you? I know when I got Jake, he would play fight with the cats and Layla felt the need to step in. I wasn't sure whether she was going to go after the cats or Jake! I made it quite clear to Layla, both sternly, but reassuring her *I* was the mommy and *I* would handle it. I do know you have to make sure Joey knows that behavior is NOT acceptable.
There are people here who could offer you some advice as soon as they see this. Try not to be too worried, and just watch them closely. It will work out. {hugs}

[Freedom]

Feel free to use the water squirt bottle, just as with the cats. It works well with dogs also, and they don't see it as "you" reprimanding them. It's "rain from the ceiling," I guess.

I think you did right putting him in a time out. Sort of like NILIF.

He may have been jealous that she was getting too close to HIS mommy; or maybe he was showing he is dominant over her.

Not sure what more to suggest. Hang in there!

[Daisy and Delilah]

OH NO!!! How scary! It sounds like Joey is acting out. He's jealous for sure. I sometimes have some similiar issues with my girls but they only get real mad over food. I hope Joey will be more accepting in time. Best of luck.

[Ginger's Mom]

I would repeat almost everything stated above. It is possible that he thought he was protecting you. You should immediately put him in time out. I do think it will get better once they know each other better. Joey will learn Dora is not a threat to him personally, nor to his place/standing in the household. It is very early in the relationship. They should still have scheduled play time together when you can watch them closely and step in if it gets dangerous (but other than that don't get involved, let them work it out). Make the play periods rather short at this point (10 minutes), a couple of times a day. In addition to that take them for leash walks together outside. Being outside together sniffing around will teach them to do things together without any threat to each other.

Ginger does mouth on Taz. At first it scared him. This past week he realized it was play, and he stood up to her. She loved it; it was a real breakthrough. And they are both older and have had three weeks together. You have more issues to work through than we do. I wish you luck. As chocolatepuppy has said there are people on here who have much more knowledge on behavior and training. I will be interested in what they have to suggest.

[Rachel]

My thoughts are that you seemed to have instinctively handled the situation correctly. Joey needed to know that this type of behavior was unacceptable and would not be tolerated by you, the *Top Dog*.

I'm really not familiar with the little breed dogs and their personalities. I understand because of his size you can't overwhelm him with whatever vocal or physical actions you chose to use, but on the other hand, you also need to clearly convey you are the leader and his behavior was not to be repeated.

As far as the pooping goes, I don't know, it may be a bit of a setback in his housetraining due to his perceived stress of having a new sibling with whom to share his mommy and not being able to rid the premises of her. I guess I would just assume that you have to take all the same precaustions you did with him during his housebreaking.

Unfortunately this is where two dogs becomes more than double the work of one dog. It's the work of dog 1 and the work of dog 2 and then the work of dealing with the entity of the two of them together. Be prepared for utilitizing a good bit of patience and spending lots of time as you work toward this adjustment phase. Unless Joey is one to dig in his heels, it should all work out in due time.

[Giselle]

My thoughts are that you seemed to have instinctively handled the situation correctly. Joey needed to know that this type of behavior was unacceptable and would not be tolerated by you, the *Top Dog*.

Exactly. This sounds like a classic case of resource guarding. In his mind, YOU are his resource. You need to switch the roles and enforce your own benevolent leadership!

I own both small and big dogs, and I don't treat any of them differently. If I tell you Sit, you better sit. I don't care what your size is

In your case, you'd do best enforcing NILIF now and paying a little more attention to how you treat Joey and Dora. Are you paying significantly more attention to Dora than Joey? Joey can be feeling slighted with the new addition, but if you enforce NILIF, Joey should not feel slighted because they then BOTH have to earn your attention. It is not something that he can just take and guard. It is something he has to earn. Do not let toys and treats lay around your house for now. For now, you are the controller of all resources and you will only dole them out when you can supervise.

Don't worry. It is the hardest going from a single dog household to a two-dog household. After the second one, it's pretty smooth sailing from there

A good booklet is: How to be Leader of the Pack and have Your Dog Love You For It by Patricia McConnell

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Thank you all for the support and advice. It scared me to death. Joey does NOT do this kinda stuff. It came as a total shock to me....

I also thought at the time that he was protecting me... But I don't know for sure.

I contacted a behavioral specialist for Doggies only, and her next session is in two weeks. It is a 4 week program - 2 times a week. It is especially for dogs with aggression/possesive personalities. She said that we can atleast make Joey accept her, whether he likes her or not is up to him!

*Fingers crossed* It is still early on in their relationship. I just have to hope he gets over this jealousy thing!

Thank you again! Kt and pups

[dreamparkingspace]

I've always found the best technique to get dogs living in the same household together to stop fighting is simply to walk them together.

"A walk, who'd have thought?" - Cesar Millan (The Dog Whisperer)

It actually is true. My dogs Tatum and Shawnee fought a couple times and trust me, they were friggin' relentless when they fought each other, then I started walking them together every day (rather than walking each of my 3 dogs individually), in fact, often I walk all 3 at once now, and it is proving to be extremely effective at forming the pack mentality and thus preventing brawls within the pack.

[dreamparkingspace]

I also forgot to mention that you might not want to associate a crate or pen with punishment. If you are going to use something for a "timeout spot" which my friend who is a dog trainer even does, she uses a certain room or the garage if I remember correctly, but not a crate or pen which is supposed to be associated with relaxation.

[kt_luvs_kitties]

Giselle- I just bought that book off of Ebay! Hope it comes fast!

Dreamparkingspace- I did not put him in his nite nite crate. I have 3 crates/cages/pens that I use. Dora only has one so far

[4 Dog Mother]

We have found that with Pippi and Tucker that we also have to show Pippi who is the pack leader by using the dominince position. Every time she growled at Tucker or one of the others for looking at Tucker, we put her on her side, held her down and told her we were boss, not her. That seemed to actually help more than putting her in a time out.

I have no doubt this will work out. Just like bringing a new born into a home and having the older act act out, so it is with dogs. They will work it out but do remember that Joey wants attention too and you may have to let Dora know that it is Joey's turn by crating her or pushing her away. The going in the house is really the same issue - let him know it is not okay - again maybe using the dominance stance- and put him outside right away. Before long they will be best friends (okay, well at least tolerate each other).

[K9soul]

I've always found the best technique to get dogs living in the same household together to stop fighting is simply to walk them together.

"A walk, who'd have thought?" - Cesar Millan (The Dog Whisperer)

It actually is true. My dogs Tatum and Shawnee fought a couple times and trust me, they were friggin' relentless when they fought each other, then I started walking them together every day (rather than walking each of my 3 dogs individually), in fact, often I walk all 3 at once now, and it is proving to be extremely effective at forming the pack mentality and thus preventing brawls within the pack.

It's interesting you mention this because my girl Tasha who has a real hard time accepting new people, she is fearful especially with men and kids, the walk seems to be the key with her in accepting someone as part of the inner circle. Once my stepfather and mom and I took all the dogs on a couple walks all together, she just seemed to transform towards him and he entered her circle of trust. She still was a little skittish around him but nothing like before we did a couple walks all together. It really does seem to be a pack/bonding experience.

KT, you have gotten some good advice and it is especially good that you are working to improve the situation immediately rather than waiting until things get more out of control. I hope soon you will find your two settled down and being buddies, and congratulations on your new addition!

[Pawsitive Thinking]

I had exactly the same when Archie joined us. He used to go for Tobey on a regular basis to assert his authority. They did sort it out between themselves given time although I do have to put Archie in his place every now and then.

Stick with it and step in when you have to just to show them who is actually "top dog" (you )