Son's dog has troubling history BEFORE pancreatitis attack...Please help!

[king2005]

MonicanHonda

[Sher.Fla]

I don't think this dog has ever had a solid bm. I am also sure this dog has most likely never been fed a good quality dog food, either. Has anyone any thoughts on giving the dog some baby food strained meat in jars... like turkey or chicken? I know I used to give my cats that when they weren't feeling well and I was trying to appeal to their appetites. It always worked. I would like to just once have him feed her something simple for a little while and have her have a "normal" bm.... any thoughts on this?

[king2005]

I've never even looked at one, so I have no idea, really. As a temp food I don't think there will be any harm in it. I would read the labels to ensure its only beef, or only chicken, or only fish. But one of each meat & see how she does. Also buy come veggies, like carrots, & greens. No corn, no rice, & no dairy.

It'll be a very $$ food, but it should be ok SHORT TERM. Remember dogs are not humans, they need the nasty things in animals (bones, organs) to keep healthy. But I think as a trial for 1-2 weeks would hurt. anything longer then 2 weeks I think might be pushing it, as organ meat is sooo important to dogs.

Remember Onion is bad!
So if you can find a Liver/Heart baby food then get that too.. but make sure she can handle beef, as chances are the liver will be beef.

[Asiel]

Just another idea you could look into. If your dog has had pancreatic issues most of it's life then it could have caused more damage to the other organs. The liquid poop you describe reminds me of EPI and while I know it isn't common in Chi's I would ask the vet to check the next liquid poop you can pick up, use a scaper if you have to and get some in a small pill bottle that is well washed and rinsed. The vet doesn't need a large amount. You should also ask for a blood test at the same time as this will confirm it for sure. The vet can do a biopsy of the intestine but it's costly and not sure I would go for that at such an advanced age. Guiardia is another common thing that this dog might have had from puppy hood.
Plain pumpkin in the food is also very good at helping solidify the stools if the dog tolerates it.
Definitely not normal for the dog to have had these issues all it's life so I would make sure the vet runs the proper tests. Sounds as if the villi in the intestine might be eroding or is already, if this is the case the dog can't absorb any nutrients from any food unless you feed enzymes that you soak in each meal. Your vet should have that on hand.

[MonicanHonda]

Also, if you do the baby food, make sure sodium isn't very high. High sodium will just cause more diarrhea. I think for 4 oz. you want no more than 80 mg tops.

The pumpkin will help with the diarrhea, but if you do use it, just remember that it isn't fixing the problem, only temporarily hiding it.

If this has been happening ever since your son had the dog and the vet he currently has still can't find out what is wrong... I would think about getting a second opinion. I know that my vet has gotten comfortable with me, so he doesn't really look as deeply as he should. He gave me a wrong diagnosis about Honda's lump on her face, and we found out from a second vet it was something totally different. I don't blame my vet... but I wish he would have looked into it further. Sometimes having a new vet brings more professionalism... so that's just a thought.

[Sher.Fla]

I can't believe how helpful you all are over here! (So different from the other forum I visited...) Thank you SOOO much. You have given me so many ideas to run past my son and I appreciate it so much.... I hope he can get his little "Daisy" to start having a normal dog life and he can start getting some sleep at night....

[king2005]

here is an idea encase nothing can be done for the poor wee thing, or if she has normal poops but still needs to potty a LOT cause of an issue. Train her to potty in a litter box, or do what I do, I use a low plastic tote that is larger then a kitty litter box, so my cat has plenty of room to potty & not step in it the next time she has to go again.

chances are Daisy wont potty on litter (yet), so use soil & maybe some grass to show her thats her potty place. She might not like it in teh house right now, so drag it outside (avoid rain if possible) & try to get her to potty near it, then in it. Pick up most of her poop in it, so there is trace amounts of poop in the box so she'll use it again. PRAISE her like crazy.

Once she get use to pottying in it, move the container closer & closer to the house. then move it to the inside of the door. Hopefully she'll use it when its in the house. Once shes using it in the house buy some cheap kitty litter (Costco sells a HUGE box of it for cheap.. or atleast it does here in ON, Canada). Start with making 1 small corner just litter & sprinkling a little over the top of the soil. have the corner grow in litter once a week & keep a few sprinkles of litter on top of the soil. With luck she'll potty on the litter before the box is 1/2 converted to litter.

There is NO quarentee it'll work, but if the little dog has to potty bad & she really doesn't want to make a mess in teh house, then chances are, she'll run to the box that is beside the back door (or where ever you find is an easy place for her to get to it).

You don't need a lot of soil/grass/litter in the box, an inch is more then enough because shes not suppose to dig in it like a cat, she's suppose to potty on top of the soil/litter & leave.

Instead of litter you can also use newspaper. But with a clumping litter it'll make pick up easier, esp if she starts to pee in it too. Newspaper & dog pee doesn't mix well. it make a little lake & then the dog steps in it & then runs all over the house with pee pee paws... ewwww hehehe


Another training method he could try is when she has to potty bad, put her in a tall tote (I would keep this tote near the back door) with litter in it & wait for her to poop (she wont be able to hold it long). When she poops in it, PRAISE her while shes pooping (let her know shes a good doggie).. After a week or so, she'll most likely be use to it & will poop right away on teh litter.. When she feels good about pottying in the tote, he can cut a hole in the side so she can come & go as she needs too. To help her train for that. Put her in the tote when she needs to potty (block the door if she tries to leave), & when shes done, use some baby food to help lure her through the hole to leave. If she does well with leaving after she poops, then instead of putting her into the tote, he can gently stuff her through the hole, so she'll understand that when she goes through the hole she can get to the litter to poop... With luck she'll learn really fast & will run to it all on her own. & after a while he can put a lid on top to help keep the smell down (he'll still need to clean it daily as dogs don't bury their poop). If he is creative, he can easily hide the fact that the tote is a puppy litter box by putting a sheet ontop & a small plant. It'll look more like a table, then a puppy litter box

I think I like my second option best LOL

[MonicanHonda]

Good idea!!! I didn't even think of the pottying in the house issue!!!

[Sher.Fla]

Well, if this were my dog I know I would certainly be thinking of a way to have her go by herself on a pad or in a box or something during the night...

I just got this email from him...... I am very afraid for this poor dog..

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11:30-4th poop-orange-brown-milkshake
12:30a-5th poop-darker-milkshake
1:30a-6th poop-dark-darkbrown-milkshake
(now)3:45a- 7th poop-don't know she was outside, the other ones she went in the kitchen 'cause it was raining outside

back to bed for 2 hours I hope till I have to get up and be at the Mcsherrystown Moose at 7:45a

I sleep very light, so as soon as she starts to move I wake up....that's why Leslie doesn't do it... she sleeps very heavy

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Then a second email came with this msg... even more scary...

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at 5:45, she pooped, it looked like a few drops of blackish purple and the poop looked like blackberry jelly...I know she never ate anything like that.... I've seen that a few other times...in the last week or two...

sorry about the detail...

I still have not gotten a chance to read your other email again... I just scanned it...

I have a feeling Daisy's insides are falling apart, but I really can't afford to find out... we still owe 300 of the 600 bill from a few weeks ago...

I will check your email for sure and check the forum posts when I get back from work this afternoon...

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Does not sound good... at all.... Don't you think this dog might be in pain with all this pooping? Should she be on pain meds?

[king2005]

black jelly "could" be old blood... meaning its not fresh, so it might be in the stomach or in the first part of the small intestine. The Orange might be bile mixed with blood, as I have no idea what produces orange (I'm not a vet)

Those poops really don't sound healthy at all.

Since hes unable to bring her to the vet again as he still paying off the last vet bills, he could try the below. I'm NOT a vet, if he tries the below he did it on his own free will knowing it may or may not work, & god forbid if it kills her (it shouldn't, but without knowing what IS wrong who knows sadly)!

I would starve her for 24hr just to give those poor insides a rest.
pick up some blue Gatorade & offer that instead of water (unless she wont drink it), it'll help keep her hydrated...Digi really perked up when she was on it for a week (she wasn't allowed to eat for a whole week!! I'm sure this pup needs that kind of break too, but that means she also needs IV fluids)

Then I would give her some Pepto Bismol (that is what Digi takes when she gets into something shes allergic too, because its her digestive system that shuts down & tries to kill her, not the allergy its self) after the 24hr fasting.

Digi is 25lbs & the vet said 3CCs is about the right amount for her weight. So if someone could help me do the math to get a good dose for this pup it just might be able to help.

1hr after the Pepto give her all the cooked chicken she can eat within 30 mins, then more pepto, & more pepto after 30 mins of the last dose of pepto & nothing more (food or pepto) for 12hrs (12hrs after she ate, not the last pepto).

at the 12hr, give her more pepto, then 1 hr later give her more chicken & more pepto, & more pepto after 30 mins. Repeat for 4 days.. after that add a small amount of cooked carrot along with the chicken.

Try that for 2 weeks to see how she does. After 2 weeks try adding some cooked egg +the shell mixed with the cooked chicken & cooked carrots. From there he can slowly develop a proper & healthy diet for her.

He also needs to keep her quiet. Keep her in a large tote, or confine her to the kitchen, or keep her in a large kennel... kitchen being the better option, as its large enough she wont have to step in her own poop.

Make sure he reads the Pepto label, so he understands the dangers of it.
After 2 weeks of use, I would stop using it, as thats pushing it. Hopefully she'll show some improvement by then & maybe he'll have enough money to take her to a DIFFERENT vet. He should keep notes, so when he sees a new vet, they'll have a better idea on how to help her.

poor poor poor wee thing

[MonicanHonda]

This poor baby... something is terribly wrong, and I know how it is when you can't afford to find out more. It SUCKS. I think fasting is in order. I believe you said they did it before? I would do it again... but being a little dog, they are prone to hypoglycemia... so doggy will need it's nutrients from something. Gatorade will help, as stated. I really don't know what else to offer.