Pit Bull Owners! Help!

[monaliesa]

This I also posted in the Behavior section...but I need as much feedback as possible...sorry to be annoying!

Ack...I'm pretty upset now...we took Buddha to his first puppy kindergarten class last night and we've got some problems with aggression it seems. He's a pit mix, but Pia (the trainer) says that he looks like he's at least 90% Pit....and that he doesn't act like a 14 week old puppy....he was more interested in following Pia around and sitting so he could get treats than he was in playing with other dogs...when he did go to play with the puppies...there were some growling incidents...and she says he has an aggressive stance...he stiffens up and puts his haunches forward....she said that its 'just the way he is' and that he's probably always going to be aggressive and to keep him in classes as long as possible...do MAAAAJOR socialization...she basically gave the impression that he has a lot of potential to be a dangerous dog....and since he came from the SPCA, he could have been bred from fighting dogs....and the way that they are...they're very non agressive to people...bred so that they can be pulled out of a fight and not ever bite the person...

the thing is...he's such a sweet little boy...he doesn't have any problems with people at all...and he isn't possessive at ALL with food or treats or toys....him and Riely eat and drink out of the same bowl ALL the time...at the same time even...he's never so much as growled at a dog in the pet store....he's always been fine on walks and stuff....it's just in the playing environment that he starts to get aggressive...she said that we should never take him to a dog park in an off leash environment....i'm so attached to him already and the thought that she thinks my little affectionate loving puppy could be dangerous and we might ultimately have to get rid of him is killing me...she said to get some freeze dried chicken...or some cheese...and POUR praise on him when he's good....because any scolding will make him worse...she made it sound like he's gonna kill Riely someday playing...

I feel like a burden in that class...like we're the one with the BAD dog that the other puppy parents are scared of....she made us stay after the class and gave us a big talking to...."i don't want to scare you...but he is acting like an adult dog...and he's only a 14week old puppy"....i mean...will we EVER be able to board him? or take him to playdays there?

she even told us that we might even want to tell people that he's a boxer mix...because of the stigma with pitt bulls....I had to stop myself from crying a couple times....

Has ANYONE had an experience like this? How has it turned out? ANY words of advice would help at this point...

this morning when i left....i was laying with him on the bed about to say goodbye...and I bursted out in tears...looking at him makes me sad...i love Buddha so much already...and now i feel like a dumbass crying at work....

Does this look like a killer to you?

[aly]

Is Buddha in a crate when you're not home? Just wondering because if you're worried about Riley, I wouldn't let them together unsupervised until you know for sure his play style has become less aggressive.

I've seen puppies as young as 7 weeks acting in extremely dominant and/or aggressive ways. In some cases, the puppy had to be put down BUT that was because of aggression towards people.

What kind of dog is Riley?

I think it would be wise to stay in classes as long as possible. It may even be good for him to play with a dog who will correct him when he acts tough... put him in his place. I might also have a session with a behaviorist. The behviorist can evaluate your situation and tell you what to do.

I am sorry you're going through this and I wish you the best of luck in correcting the problem.

[monaliesa]

Buddha is in a crate when we are not home. Riely gets the run of the house. Riely is a lab/terrier...about a year and a half old...she is still bigger than him and has about 20 pounds on him....she's the princess...and she does occasionally put him in check...one day she snapped at him because she was chewing on her big meaty bone and he was bugging her and trying to get the bone...so for the rest of the night he steered pretty clear of her bone....but usually she doesnt mind if he chews on it...but they get along very well actually...when Buddha gets tired he curls up next to Riely and sleeps on her...and Riely tolerates his nibbling on her tail and stuff...he actually prefers to curl up next to her....rests his little head on her butt or whatever...they're never left alone together though...unless we're just outside the house talking or whatever...but I don't think that either one of them will hurt the other...they seem to have a pretty good relationship...they just play kind of rough...but neither one of them has ever been hurt...and there is never any yelping or anything...he's just an annoying little brother...we werent quite sure if they were duking it out for dominance or not...so thats why we didn't intervene too much...but Riely is now in her humping phase...so I think its pretty clear that she wants to stay the dominant one...and I think he'll listen...

neither one of them is resourse aggressive in the least...they dont care if you take away their food or treats...they eat out of the bowl at the same time...you can pull them away or mess with them while they're eating and they dont care...they play kind of rough though...and he usually only growls when he's pinned down on his back when playing with Riely...but we're not going to let them play remotely rough anymore...we're gonna put him on a lot of time outs...and redirect his attention with treats...making him do tricks...and probably a couple squirts of a water bottle...

our friends have a full grown male pit bull (Buddy) that is completely gentle and wouldn't hurt anyone...person or dog...he's a big pushover...they also have a small pit mix....we used to take Riely over there to play a lot...Riely liked to play with Cookie...and Buddy would usually just wander around....i believe my fiance has taken him over there before when I wasn't home yet though...I think we should take him over there some more...so he can get more perspective from another Male Pit....kinda like a mentor...heh...i dont know if it works that way with dogs...but Buddy would put him in check no problem...in a non-hurtful way though...

[aly]

Aww, what a sweet picture Both of your dogs are beautiful.

It sounds like you're doing everything right and I'm sure you won't have too much of a problem.

[monaliesa]

When you get your animals from the SPCA, you kind of have to deal with the luck of the draw...when we went to get Buddha...he was one of 2 puppies there...and the other one was his sister (but we had to get the male because we HAVE a female)....we unfortunately don't know his background or anything...but since he is a pit mix...i knew that we would HAVE to do all we could to make him non-threatening because he already has the stigma of the breed riding on him...I knew we'd have to take him to all the classes and get him VERY well trained...and socialized...and give him a non-threatening name...

I wanted to make sure he's not like Riely...shes hyper...and not as socialized as she should have been...shes a brat...she likes to bark at other dogs...in the car...in the pet store...shes that dog that barks at other dogs from the window of a moving car...she's a pain...but a TOTAL sweetheart...she only jumps on people because she wants to drown them in kisses....she goes to Planet Pooch for playdays on a fairly regular basis...and shes okay...she gets some time outs...but she's good at heart....we're going to enroll her in the Grumpy Pup course because of her behavior when shes on a leash....like in the pet store...shes the ONLY dog barking at every dog she sees...its embarassing...Riely doesn't listen very well when shes amped up either...she cant be trusted off leash because she bolts and doesn't come when shes called...

i wanted to make sure that HE will come when he is called if ever he did get off a leash...

[mugsy]

It doesn't seem like there's an aggression issue with Riley at all from the picture on the couch...and yes, he is a sweetie. I am still of the opinion that if you make sure that you are solidly the alpha in the house and as long as they both recognize it, there shouldn't be a problem since he's so young. My guess is that he probably WON'T have an issue with Riley since she was there first. I would probably find a more open minded trainer myself. Your trainer sounds like she's anti-Pit, just from your comments. A good trainer should be able to train at least some of that aggression out of him. I agree with Aly, that he should be crated when you're not home. Good luck...don't get rid of him just because someone else doesn't seem to like him. You'll be fine.

[monaliesa]

like I said...I seriously don't think that I'll have a problem with him and Riely...he likes to annoy her...yeah...but they're affectionate...they give each other kisses....they sleep together...they eat together...riely always grabs a ball or the rope when he gets sleepy and tries to entice him to play more...I've seen Riely snap at him just one real time...but he listened....shes always humping him too lately...I can tell that he thinks of her as the Alpha...and Riely will do ANYTHING her Daddy says....when Riely REALLY pisses Jason off she KNOWS...and she rolls RIGHT over on the floor belly up....or tries to give him LOADS of kisses...like...'I'm sorry daddy, please dont be mad at me!'....Buddha definitely gravitates towards me over Jason though...he comes over and cuddles up next to me...and sleeps on me...Riely would rather lay down on the floor by Jason when he's at the computer though...it's like shes in love with him....I fall somewhere in between...with Riely...she loves me...but if Daddy is around..I'm chopped liver to her....Buddha...I'm the one who takes care of him...I take him out potty all the time...I woke up in the middle of the night to take him out every single night...I'm constantly affectionate with him....I play with him...i always hold him and scratch him and pet him...we definitely have a bond....and I know he'll listen to me...

he is crated when we're not home though...always had been...its a HUUUGE kennel...its big enough for me and jason to both sit indian style inside it at the same time...it's definitely a comfy environment for him...he has room to move around...but not TOO much....I don't want to get rid of him or anything...i LOVE that dog so much....i'm mostly worried that he wont improve...that its just "they way he is"....and that we'll never be able to take him for playdays...and never be able to board him if we want to go on a trip....or worse...that he'll somehow hurt another dog and have to be put to sleep....I'm just terrified that I'll have to part ways with him sooner than I would like...

[mugsy]

Don't go into it with that attitude. Dogs are super sensitive to emotions and you wouldn't want to damage the relationship. Just go with the flow and relax and enjoy him and teach him how to act and what's acceptable and what's not.

[angelpuppy]

It sounds to me more like your dog trainer maybe has an issue herself with pit-type dogs. How can anyone pass the judgement that Buddha is a "bad dog" and "that's just the way he is" when he is so young?!? Puppies' personalities can change as they grow, just like everything else about them, and it seems like he is well behaved anyway!!

My advice: don't take the trainer's opinion to heart. And FIND A NEW TRAINER that is not so biased!!!

[monaliesa]

hi guys...

I feel much better today...last night Buddha was sooooo good....whenever him and Riely started getting too heated...or if he was biting or growling trying to tug the ball away from her...we just said 'hey hey hey'...or 'muzzle' and they quieted right down....if you say 'muzzle' in my house...doggies listen...heh...

we lurve the muzzles...its our way of 'time out'...if they get too rowdy...or we need to clip their nails...or if they're jumping all over people and scratching them when they come in...we put the muzzles on and they become completely calm....they usually only have to wear them for 5 minutes or so....during with they usually lay down and rest...it kind of puts them on a lower intensity level....and we use them when we have to clip their nails or clean their ears because they don't squirm very much when they have them on...and they cant nibble their way free....

most of the time all we have to do is say the word....we only ACTUALLY put them on them 1 in 20 times we have to say the word.....

anyway...Buddha was being SO good...and we practiced his puppy class homework last night....I can now stand anywhere in the room...call his name...and he'll come sit in front of me and look in my face...i was actually teaching him stay too...unfortunately Riely saw that he was getting all the treats and kept interrupting...and distracting him...so I was trying to train them BOTH...but Riely was jumping on me....and wouldn't sit until i SAID sit....and then putting her paws up all over Buddha...like pushing him away like 'don't give him any treats'....

he's totally more well behaved than she is...and then...they both got tired...and Riely curled up on the couch....and Buddha curled up next to her butt...and they slept....and Riely moved to the floor a long while later...and he got up and moved to the floor and put his little head on her butt and slept...i swear...he loves his big sister...he just likes to annoy her....he's not fast enough to get the ball when we play fetch...so he just tries to thwart Riely's attempts at getting back to me with the ball...and starts biting her butt and tail as shes running...and hopping in front of her face trying to grab the ball...

I still have to go to 4 more puppy classes....I already paid for them...but she'll see...he's a good boy...he's just not used to being around puppies...and ones that move fast around him...i think he's not used to it and it makes him nervous that they're fast and can come after him....i did some thinking...and besides Sunday...when he was with only 2 puppies...one of which was very timid and didn't move much...he didn't growl at all..he just chased the other puppy around...he hasn't really ever been around other puppies....besides that class tuesday...with about 10 other dogs...and he was probably on sensory overload....

[mugsy]

You know, I'm so snotty that I'd probably make sure I rubbed it in her face everytime I went to the class about how well he's behaving and how quickly he's learning and then knowing me....as sarcastic as I am...I have to throw in a couple of catty comments about how mean and rotten Pits are. I'm really good at public humiliation! lol Must be in my genes!! You're much nicer than I would be. I'm glad that Buddha is doing so well. I knew he'd be fine. I had faith.

[monaliesa]

heh...i still do have to take him for 4 more classes...and Riely still loves going there for playdays...its a really good place...they even have webcams so you can watch them at work...im not the type to burn bridges...and there is the possibility that i took some of her comments too personally...i mean...she did seem to like him...she kept commenting on how cute he is...but i mean...how do you start off saying 'i dont mean to upset you BUT...he may kill your other dog some day and he wouldn't care at all'....i mean...what the hell is THAT?

ergh...i mean...give the poor guy a chance...yeah...he's a little fiesty...he's USED to playing with a LARGE dog...

I'm still waiting to hear if I've been laid off....today is the day...and because of some mistake with them not turning off a last paycheck alert type thing on the email...they shut down all the email systems at my work so that people weren't notified by email about being laid off...

so, since my job is based on answering email requests...i'm stuck doing menial crap...processing tax exemptions...cleaning up the database...stuff I've been meaning to do...but been too busy...i hate this 'in limbo' feeling...i haven't honestly gotten the impression that I'm going anywhere thus far...and logistically it doesn't make sense that they would want to get rid of me...i dont make very much...im the only one in the company with good understanding of how to set up vendors...my colleagues CAN do it...but they still have questions...and they're way slower than me...

bleah...im just trying not to think about it...

[monaliesa]

never mind...im still employed...

rock.

[grassbur]

I agree with Mugsy. It sounds like your trainer is breedist, or at least prejudiced against pits. No one with a brain in use would take an owner aside, at a first class, and give them a warning like that.

The behavior toward other the puppies sounds to me like Buddha is a natural alpha. If you've never seen a litter of puppies interact, or pups in a kennel setting, it can be confusing. But some pups are naturally the leaders, just like some kids. They have to be king of the mountain or there's hell to pay. Others just go with the flow, and still others tend to be submissive. Alphas tend to be smarter, too, and so you'll have Buddha's rapid progress to crow about.

You're smart to want to give him the most training you can, especially since you've seen the result of not doing that for Riely. But pit bulls aren't naturally hateful toward all other dogs, and Buddha will be just as protective towards Riely as to you, as he grows up.

Mac

[monaliesa]

yeah...i knew Buddha would be totally protective over Riely...even though Riely is the Alpha...i can tell...he loves his sister...and Riely is such a brat...she barks at dogs all the time...one of these days shes really gonna piss one off...and Buddha will probably be standing guard...

the classes are good for teaching us how to teach Buddha to behave....I almost wish that we didn't have the other puppies around so he wouldn't draw attention to himself in a bad way...he's so well behaved otherwise...

*sigh*...I lurve my puppy...and he loves me...