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Thread: Eight Bells (Kentucky Derby horse)

  1. #1
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    Eight Bells (Kentucky Derby horse)

    I am so, so glad I didn't see the Derby yesterday. I heard on the news last night that this horse broke both of her front ankles and was euthanised on the track. I cannot imagine how awful that must have been. There were many people there because of the Kentucky Derby. All I could think of was Barbaro. I don't know that much about horse racing but this just breaks my heart. Would they not have known beforehand that she had such fragile ankles, and kept her out of the race? When I was in high school one of our family vacations was Kentucky and we took a driving tour, saw some of the gorgeous farms with horses in the pastures. They were beautiful. Run at the Bridge, precious horse.
    Last edited by cassiesmom; 05-05-2008 at 11:49 AM.
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    Interesting article about Eight Belles

    http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...OqsT6vhz0WFVvg

    There will be no schoolchildren sending cards for Eight Belles

    5 hours ago

    There won't be a dramatic fight for life this time around. No national day of mourning for a brave horse who wouldn't give up.

    Schoolchildren won't be sending cards.

    The people who cried for Eight Belles got it out of the way at the track. They had no choice, because the business of racing goes on.

    She ran with the big boys in the race of her life. She ended up paying for it with her life.

    One moment she was flying down the stretch at Churchill Downs racing against all odds to become the first filly to win the Kentucky Derby in 20 years. The next she was thrashing in the dirt, trying desperately to get up before the decision was made to spare both her and us any further misery.

    Two years ago we were transfixed by the fight to save Barbaro, who became a national icon as he struggled to recover from injuries that eventually cost him his life. Two weeks from now they'll run the Preakness, and Eight Belles will barely get a mention.

    Racing is a brutal business because it has to be. If we mourned every horse that lost its life early on the track or in the barn, we'd have no time left to cheer on those who can still run.

    Barbaro was the exception, a horse and a story that allowed us to get all warm and fuzzy and forget for a time that these 450 kilogram beasts are bred and raised for maximum speed, not maximum life spans.

    The cool efficiency that marked the end of Eight Belles was more the norm, a cruel reminder on the biggest of all stages that racing can be a deadly sport.

    Say what you will about the sport of kings, but don't say they aren't prepared. They've done it enough to know the drill, and they performed it quickly enough so that the untimely demise of Eight Belles didn't interfere with Big Brown's victory ceremony or the hawking of tacos and fried chicken on television.

    The equine ambulance came out, and screens were thrown up to spare the crowd from watching. The track veterinarian reached for the needle that is always nearby.

    After all, they don't shoot horses anymore, do they?

    The animal activists, of course, will raise an outcry over it all. They will call for a ban on the sport, and compare the fate of Eight Belles with that of the dogs Michael Vick and his cohorts euthanized in their own special ways.

    Those in the industry, meanwhile, will debate what it all means, a process that had already begun Sunday morning in the stables at the famed track. Trainers talked how horses are bred too fragile these days for the stress that running around a track at more than 70 kilometres an hour with someone clinging to your back causes, and how synthetic tracks might or might not help save some of them.

    Most came to the same conclusion: Breakdowns and deaths have always been and will always be a part of the sport.

    "No matter what happens, you're always going to see horses break down on the track. That is part of this game. It's a very sad part of the game, but you have to go through it," said Big Brown trainer Rick Dutrow Jr., who should have been spending the day celebrating his horse's big win. "For people coming out to the track and seeing that, it's got to make them think, 'Man, why would I want to go out there and see that happen to a horse?'

    "It's got to be very disappointing to anyone who loves horses."

    Fellow trainer Nick Zito was just as philosophical.

    "It was a very unfortunate thing yesterday, but again, in sports it happens a lot at high levels," Zito said. "People get hurt, people lose their careers."

    People do, and sometimes they die, too. They are killed crashing cars into each other on the racetrack, or trading punches in the ring.

    I've been at fights and watched it happen, and it's a horror show. But I've never seen anyone euthanized or put to sleep or laid down, or whatever euphemism you want to use to describe what the vet was forced to do to Eight Belles.

    It may happen all the time in racing - indeed, three horses were killed in one day at the Breeders' Cup in 1990 - but when it happens on such a public stage for the second time in two years it becomes increasingly hard to watch a race just for the thrill of it all. The popularity of horse racing has been in a long decline to begin with, and having horses die in the dirt isn't exactly a recipe for bringing fans back to the track.

    For now, though, the sport goes on. Eight Belles was a casualty, but unlike Barbaro she was disposed of quickly and now the focus of the sport will turn to the chances of Big Brown doing what hasn't been done in 30 years.

    A lot of people in racing who watched Big Brown come from all the way outside to win the Derby think he could become the first horse since Affirmed in 1978 to win the Triple Crown.

    Many just hope that he finishes the Preakness and the Belmont still standing on all four legs.

    Copyright © 2008 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.
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  3. #3
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    The rant that inspired the responses below it:
    ************************************************** ****************************************
    Eight Belles' death renews horse racing questions
    http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/200...belles-de.html



    (Eight Belles is "put down"/AP photo/Brian Bohannon)

    For horse racing aficianados, the 4 3/4-length victory by Big Brown at the Kentucky Derby fueled hopes that thoroughbred racing will see its first Triple Crown winner in three decades. But for the millions of casual followers of the Sport of Kings, the wish was likely simpler:

    Can we have a big-time race day without seeing a valiant four-legged competitor crippled and condemned to death?

    Eight Belles was the lastest high-profile thoroughbred to run itself to death. For a moment, the gallant filly seemed to have earned a place alongside Danica Patrick in what was shaping up as a great year for women in racing.

    But then the news spread ear-to-ear that Saturday's Kentucky Derby runnerup had snapped two ankles and was euthanized as she lay in the very Churchill Downs dirt where she had galloped to greatness.

    We don't know what Eight Belles means on a horse farm, but in nautical terms "eight bells" marks the end of one's watch shift. And that was the finality Eight Belles met Saturday, although the view of her demise was blocked from the crowd of 150,000-plus by the sanitizing positioning of ambulances.

    The Lexington Herald-Leader provides tape of Eight Belles trainer Larry Jones saying his horse "ran the race of here life," and he adds that "she was glad to do it." We'll suggest there's a slight leap of faith there.

    Jones told The Louisville Courier-Journal that "It wasn't the race. It wasn't the fact that 19 boys were in there. She ran. She never got bumped. She never did anything. She could have done this race with Shetland ponies. It wasn't in the race where it happened."

    Eight Belles' death was not a horse racing fluke. Two years ago Barbaro shattered bones at the Preakness and began the long and futile rehabilitation process that ultimately ended in an early death.

    George Washington was given the death needle in the 2007 Breeders Cup.

    Go For Wand had a horrific Breeders' Cup death at Belmont in 1990. In all, at the 1990 Breeders Cup at Belmont, three horses were "put down," thoroughbred racing's convenient term for a Kervorkian-like exit from the equine world.

    Saturday, for Eight Belles, "There was no reason to wait," said Dr. Larry Bramlage, the American Association vet on call. Bramlage, who has been working at race tracks since 1975, said he had never seen such an injury.

    "Sometimes, rarely, you might see a horse suffer something in one leg," Bramlage said. "But I've never seen it happen in both like that."

    Friday at Churchill Downs was equally bleak. During the seven-horse Alysheba Stakes, Chelokee suffered a right front condylar fracture that affected the stability in his ankle and threw jockey Ramon Dominguez. The injury was closely compared to Barbaro's.

    So, how many other equine deaths are there every year that go unnoticed in a sport that's largely ignored on a day-to-day basis? Let's just take one track, like Del Mar near San Diego: 55 deaths from 2004-06, says the San Diego Union-Tribune.

    Bottom line: A direct comparison of Michael Vick to the thoroughbred industry isn't fair. Horse trainers do not pit their racers against each other in a throat-biting battle to the death.

    But the death rate of top thouroughbreds does have to make one wonder why this sport seemingly never gets a review from the legal system, given how many of its superstars have gone straight from the finish line to the burial ground. If Vick has to live in a cell at Leavenworth, surely some people in the moneyed world of horse racing need to supply some answers.

    Posted at 09:19 PM/ET, May 04, 2008 in Horse Racing | Permalink


    Responding to the death of Eight Belles

    http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/200...ding-to-t.html

    Tom Weir's morning rant on the death of Eight Belles in the Kentucky Derby elicited a slew of comments from Game On! readers.

    Blog8belles Here is a sample of what readers are thinking:

    I grew up with horses but will never ride again. Horse culture is full of delusion. Breaking its spirit, enslaving it, mutilating its body, and running it to death before a grotesque display of drunk gamblers. Sad. Some reward for their legendary spirit and loyalty to man. -- Miles West

    To the owners of Eight Belles: I am so very, very sorry for such a tragic end to such a beautiful run. My heart goes out to Eight Belles, she ran her big heart out till she dropped. She wanted to give her rider what was asked of her and she did it to the end. What a marvelous horse she must have been. May the Lord comfort all that knew her. God bless. -- Sue Fancher

    This article is a load, you talk about 55 horses died in two years at Del Mar but what you don't say is how many horses raced at the track in those two year. I bet the that the number 55 is less than 2% of the number of hrses that raced there in that time period. And these animal rights activists need to give it up and start worrying about our human rights that are being stripped from us everyday. -- stf 11

    Make it illegal to gamble on horse racing. People are blind to the impact of gambling on the sport. Every day, you see horses hesitant to go into the starting gate. The horses are stuffed into the gate, for the sole reason that people have bet on that horse and removing the horse from the race would impact the odds. If it is so humane, and we all love these horses so much, why not let them go back to the stall if they don't feel like racing? Barbaro doesn't want to go into the gate, then breaks through the gate early, and they still stuff him back in there. Take the money out and let's see how many of these "enthusiasts" show up to see the horses then. People don't love the horses, they love the adrenaline rush they get during a race they just threw $250 on. Let's call it like it is. -- mrsplitty


    I own horses. I have watched racing since I was a girl, but I am done! I said, "No more" after Barbaro, and then relented, but this is really it. Yes, some of these horses are treated like kings (I visited Secretariat before his death, and he was truly loved); yes, horses, especially thoroughbreds, love to run; yes, there is inherent risk. But these animals are exposed to such unnecessary risk. The simple fact is that 2-years-old is way too young to put this kind of stress on bones and joints... My vet previously worked at a NY track and quit because money ruled; not horses. Owners want results, and like sausage, don't see how it's accomplished, and trainers have to give it to them or they don't train the next one. I don't know why they run 2-year-olds, but I'll bet it has to do with money. Pam8

    Out of great compassion for Eight Belles and animals everywhere, it's time to stop using all animals for sport. I will no longer go to Kentucky Derby parties. I hope PETA takes up this cause. Human beings around the world need to understand that animals are not here for our amusement and domination. It is barbaric. -- yrreb
    Posted at 09:18 PM/ET, May 04, 2008 in Horse Racing | Permalink
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  4. #4
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    It's bad for the horses and the sport if in every race you figure there's a good chance of a horse dying. I think horses like to run; it's in their genes. But more careful breeding and training needs to be done. I don't think it would be a bad idea if horses did not race until 4 years of age, rather than 3. Because the official Thoroughbred birthday is Jan. 1, some of these horses are probably closer to 2 real years old than 3. By pushing the stakes races back to 4 years, the horses might be sturdier and more able to withstand the rigors of racing.

    Changing the track surface may help. The way poor Eight Belles broke her ankles suggests a very sudden stop. I don't know if she stepped in a hole or the jockey pulled her up too fast, or what.
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    I'm a racing fan. I always hesitate opening these threads because there are often very uninformed and some downright untrue statements made about racing. A lot of articles in the media are not well informed either. Are there problems going on in the industry? Yes. Just like there are problems going on in anything that deals with animals. There are those who are sleazy and put greed above the animal's welfare, and there are those who consider their animals a part of their family.

    If you really want to learn about racing, visit some racing message boards where a lot of people involved with it every day post. Here, for example: http://thoroughbredchampions.com/for....php?board=2.0

    Most love their horses and give them all the best they can. Yes there are problems going on. I do not agree with breeding lines that are repeatedly unsound. I do not agree with how early they race and train yearlings. Curlin was not raced until he was 3 and he has shown to be strong, sound and a monster on the race track, an international champion now.

    I regularly read this blog, very educational, sometimes humorous and pointing out a lot of problems in the world of horses and breeding practices:

    http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/


    She is very knowledgeable about horses and made a blog entry that I completely agree with regarding Eight Belles and breakdowns. I will quote it here:

    For anyone who hasn't heard yet, Eight Belles - the filly entered in this year's Kentucky Derby - placed an impressive second.

    Then she broke both ankles, hit the dirt and had to be immediately euthanized.




    Yes, another stunningly horrific live-on-camera breakdown. I know everybody is going to want to discuss this. I'll give you my 2 cents worth first and then you can give yours.



    I do not think racing is evil or cruel or any worse than most other equestrian disciplines.

    However, I feel strongly that yearlings should not be ridden - no matter what the purpose. I don't care if it's a yearling who is going to be a racehorse, a yearling who is going to be a show horse, or a yearling who is going to be your pleasure horse. They are NOT READY to carry weight. I am absolutely convinced that riding them too early contributes to breakdowns in racing, as well as all of the 3 and 4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.

    That's not on TV though. I almost feel sorry for racing, it takes the lion's share of the badmouthing because it's so public. Someone needs to do a little research project and try to figure out how many of the get of any Big Name AQHA or APHA stud are alive, well, and sound at age 10. That's something I would love to read.

    I will go so far as to say I believe riding a horse under 24 months of age should be illegal.


    Do I think that Eight Belles' owners/trainer/jockey are greedy bastards who don't care what happened to her? No. I am sure they are miserable right now. I am sure they wanted nothing more for her than a nice retirement after this, raising her babies. However, they - and everybody else involved in racing - need to look at all the breakdowns and ask themselves how they can decrease these fatal events in the future. Boy, would I be impressed if they came out publicly and said they weren't going to ride yearlings anymore...that they were going to do as my friend does who has racehorses in SoCal and break them out as late 2's and race them at 3. If they would come out and say they learned from their mistake - running the crap out of a huge (17 hands, reportedly) baby who wasn't ready - I would totally respect that. I'd love it if they said, we don't care what everybody else does, we're not going to do it anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9soul View Post
    I'm a racing fan. I always hesitate opening these threads because there are often very uninformed and some downright untrue statements made about racing. A lot of articles in the media are not well informed either. Are there problems going on in the industry? Yes. Just like there are problems going on in anything that deals with animals. There are those who are sleazy and put greed above the animal's welfare, and there are those who consider their animals a part of their family.

    If you really want to learn about racing, visit some racing message boards where a lot of people involved with it every day post. Here, for example: http://thoroughbredchampions.com/for....php?board=2.0

    Most love their horses and give them all the best they can. Yes there are problems going on. I do not agree with breeding lines that are repeatedly unsound. I do not agree with how early they race and train yearlings. Curlin was not raced until he was 3 and he has shown to be strong, sound and a monster on the race track, an international champion now.

    I regularly read this blog, very educational, sometimes humorous and pointing out a lot of problems in the world of horses and breeding practices:

    http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/


    She is very knowledgeable about horses and made a blog entry that I completely agree with regarding Eight Belles and breakdowns. I will quote it here:
    K9soul, I'm not very informed about racing at all. It just makes me very sad that this happened. My mom rode horseback when she was a teenager and although I don't enjoy riding, I like to go to "horse country" and see the horses (and sometimes babies) in the fields. I also like what they are doing with riding therapy. I read in the Reader's Digest about a program where they were having prison inmates work with retired horses, doing their feeding, water, muck out and brushing. The horses needed their care and the participants benefited in lots of ways.
    Praying for peace in the Middle East, Ukraine, and around the world.

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    Oh I was just so Defastated & Heart Broken.. I could not watch it on TV.. It made me so so Sad.. Poor Baby Eight Bells & May You RIP.. Hope you are with the other Beloved PT Angels at RB..

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  8. #8
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    I had read an account of the race that said Eight Belles was whipped
    repeatedly down the stretch to the finish. I just read this article which
    confirmed that with an explaination, of sorts. I don't believe it. They were
    pushing her speed, period.


    Eight Belles' trainer defends jockey

    Posted: Today at 11:18 a.m.

    LEXINGTON, Ky. — The trainer of euthanized filly Eight Belles says his jockey handled the horse properly during her second-place finish at the Kentucky Derby.

    Trainer Larry Jones told The Associated Press on Monday that if the Derby were run again tomorrow, he'd put jockey Gabriel Saez right back on one of his horses.

    People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has called for the suspension of Saez. The group says the horse must have been injured during the race, and Saez should have pulled her up rather than finish.

    But Jones says Saez acted exactly as he should have. He says the jockey started whipping the horse to prevent her from running into the rail.


    Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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    I wonder if they'll learn anything from the necropsy that I hope they perform (underdeveloped legs unable to carry a 17h tall horse, say.)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey the elder View Post
    I wonder if they'll learn anything from the necropsy that I hope they perform (underdeveloped legs unable to carry a 17h tall horse, say.)

    Do you think they will get into the actual details for cause? They could
    just say "broken such & such bones "in both ankles & not make any specific
    interpretation beyond that.
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  11. #11
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    A necropsy could tell if the animal had any 'congenital' defects. Are they really congenital in the classic sense-when they are bred into a horse?

    ESPN did a piece today on horse racing and I heard something in the piece (the program was Outside The Lines) that shocked me.

    One of the experts said that horse owners have 'plastic' surgery done to horse to make them more presentable to possible purchasers. What I got out of the piece was that people will take a horse that does not fit the criteria of a racer and have whatever defect corrected.

    The conversation went in another direction.

    If a man marries a woman that has undergone surgery and expects their offspring to inherit some traits from her, he is in for a surprise.

    --------------------

    I think someone posted that all the horses in the race were descendants of one horse.
    I think that a cover-up or shushing up a report would cause more problems.

    How?

    If a necropsy finds out that there is a defect in the ankle or lower leg of EB it would serve as an alarm to all the owners who have horse from this genetic line.

    Any horse sold after that -and because lineage is a very special point in the sales and ownership of any competing equine - will be looked at as a risky investment. Will owners look at it as a deriment? Or, will they pooh pooh the news as part of the racing business?

    -----------------

    4 year olds with ringbone, navicular and arthritis that are quietly shuffled out the back door of Big Mister Pleasure Trainer's Barn and off to the auction they go without their papers.

    This is a telling statement. I'd like to believe that most of the animals end up stuck inside a stall for six days, 23 hours a week and ridden by some rich twit that wants to own a horse to keep up with the Riches Next Door.

    "My horse was a race horse and I saved it! Now it's safe in a stall where it only runs for a hour a week!"

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    I do not know anything about horse racing one way or the other to even have an opinion about it on that perspective, all I know is that when horses break their legs it isn't like a human or cat or dog breaking their legs. Their anatomy is so different; they have ONE weight-bearing digit whereas us humans, cats and dogs (for example) have four/five. Not to mention the sheer weight of most of them its amazing if any horse IS able to survive a broken bone, much less two broken carpals!! Which bone was broken, does it say if it was the cannon? Regardless; euthanization was the most humane decision to make in that circumstance, IMO.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by lizbud View Post
    I had read an account of the race that said Eight Belles was whipped
    repeatedly down the stretch to the finish. I just read this article which
    confirmed that with an explaination, of sorts. I don't believe it. They were
    pushing her speed, period.


    Eight Belles' trainer defends jockey

    Posted: Today at 11:18 a.m.

    LEXINGTON, Ky. — The trainer of euthanized filly Eight Belles says his jockey handled the horse properly during her second-place finish at the Kentucky Derby.

    Trainer Larry Jones told The Associated Press on Monday that if the Derby were run again tomorrow, he'd put jockey Gabriel Saez right back on one of his horses.

    People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has called for the suspension of Saez. The group says the horse must have been injured during the race, and Saez should have pulled her up rather than finish.

    But Jones says Saez acted exactly as he should have. He says the jockey started whipping the horse to prevent her from running into the rail.


    Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    Sorry but it's incorrect. She was hit 4 times with the stick in the entire stretch, once on the outside and three times on the inside. It was not harsh nor merciless whipping. He also waved the whip by her head, without touching her with it, to keep in a straight path rather then veering in to the rail. I just watched the race again and counted it. Not to mention they aren't whipping the crap out of them, there is a leather popper on the end and it's generally not painful. He did not overwhip that horse. The horse was NOT hurt in the race. She ran all the way around the far turn and was pulling up with her ears pricked, there are pictures of it. She was not in distress. She changed leads and when she did her ankle snapped, I saw it on tape. As she went down her other ankle took the weight awkwardly and snapped. It was a freak accident that has never occured in that way before. She was not injured in the race, regardless of what PETA says.

    Fan of racing or not a fan of racing, those are the real facts.

    I disagree with horses being trained so young for any sport, especialy this one, I think it leads to problems and issues, but the facts of THIS particular case are being exaggerated in general. She was fit for the race, she ran well and placed well. She was not run out of her league. I am horribly saddened by what happened to her, I have been following her quite a while and the stable of horses for years. They are all very devastated by her loss.

    Race horses are bred to race, it's what they WANT to do. If they don't want to they are often rehomed, at least by ethical breeders and owners. The stable that owns this filly sends their retired or nonracing horses to new owners for 1 dollar and retain the rights to the horse so it is never in jeopardy of being slaughtered or misused. There is a whole lot more to the sport than people know. Bad things happen, and it SUCKS, but the jockey didn't do anything wrong.


    Also, Richard, yes the horses all went back to Native Dancer, but that wasn't the soundness problem, and none of the other horses went down. Hell if you go back far enough all of them came from three sire lines, three arabian stallions. So yes they are all related in that sense. If i go back far enough my morgan and my tennessee walker are related too. But her sire, Unbridled, is notorious for having unsound offspring due to genetics and I wish they would not breed less than sound horses. It does not help the situation at all. I also think they shouldn't be raced before at least 3, preferably 4.

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    I was never really against horse racing. I had never seen a problem with it other then the fact that the horses were trained to young. Not matter what ANYONE says, I think it's a bit far as to say it's animal cruelty, I have never believed that. Those horses are treated like royalty an are loved very much by their owners. One thing that gets me is when people say the horses are forced to run. If I have learned anything from my 2 years of horse-back riding lessons I'd have to say there is NO WAY in hell you can get a horse to run if it doesn't want to. Thoroughbreds are bred to run and most of them love what they do. No one makes those horses run, they want to run. Basically, I enjoy watching horse racing over all. Alot of facts on the internet are made up lies. I've learned not to really trust the internet with things like that.

    I heard horses carry 60% of their bodies on their front legs. I do not know how true this is but that would leave little to no chance of Eight Bells surviving. It really is a shame, she was such a young, beautiful horse with a lot of potential. But if the 60% thing is true, it would be completely inhumane to keep her alive. I have to say though, all I kept thinking about was Barbaro to. I would really like to see a racehorse survive something like that and be able to walk again.

    Rest in Peace, Eight Bells. May you run as free as the wind at the RB.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Iowa!
    Posts
    13,130
    This tragedy has hurt my heart so deeply. I wish I could have been by her side to comfort her. I don't support racing (dog or horse). There are plenty of things for intertainment without victimizing animals.

    I wrote this poem this morning

    Eight Belles in the wind
    Beautiful melody that will never end
    Running free now without pain
    May your death not have been in vain

    You ran for the roses with heart and soul
    True to your lineage from long ago
    With heavy hearts, our tears fall
    You shouldn't have died at all

    The rainbow bridge is now your home
    With never ending pastures to roam
    Eight Belles in the wind
    Beautiful melody that will never end

    9/3/13
    I did the right thing by setting you free
    But the pain is very deep.
    If only I could turn back time, forever, you I'd keep.
    I miss you


    I hear you whimper in your sleep
    I gently pet you and say, no bad dreams
    It will be alright, to my dog as dark as night.

    Fur as dark as the night.
    Join me on this flight.
    Paws of love that follow me.
    In my heart you'll forever be.
    [/SIZE]



    How I wish I could hold you near.
    Turn back time to make it so.
    Hug you close and never let go.
    11/12/06




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